CreateDebate


Debate Info

Debate Score:18
Arguments:12
Total Votes:18
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
  (11)

Debate Creator

socratic4(147) pic



Methodically explaining why Communism and Marx are wrong.

Communists and people that view the world through a Marxist lens argue that the rich own the only means by which production can occur and that as such the working class must work for the rich in order to gain access to its necessities that must be produced, but if that is the case and a few people do control the only means by which production can occur how come new businesses are constantly being established? The truth is that all businesses and the assets under their confines were built and developed from the ground up by the use of readily available resources, everyone can invest in developing businesses and assets, The reason most people don't invest in their own "means of production" and accumulate the wealth which it seems so few are able to obtain is wealth not being based on production, but on selling, it isn't enough to be able to pay people to produce and construct things, you need to be able to do it continuously which is only viable by renewable revenue you make by selling what they produced and utilizing what they constructed - business owners are able to substantiate their assets and wealth by the selling of goods not their production, in fact it doesn't matter how a good came to be what matters is the revenue you make by selling it. It doesn't matter if you possess by virtue of production or another means a 100 tons of solid gold, if people aren't willing to exchange anything of value for it you'd be dirt poor, to the contrary, if you possess the rights to a piece of poetry others deem valuable you'd potentially be able to sell it for Millions. people can't amass a "capitalist's" worth of value because although they can invest in assets they are incapable of using these assets to produce enough value to substantiate them or wealth. Nothing stops a "group of workers" from establishing their own businesses, in fact a lot of businesses start off as 'workshops' whereas the owners are also the manifacturer of the goods, the thing is, not everyone can be a manifacturer as everyone opts to purchace a good from the manifacturer that offers the best form of it, which only a handful of manifacturers can contend to do. As most people can't be manifacturers as people will only buy from a handful of manifacturers most people can either rely on their own agricultural produce or sell their labor to manifacturers in order to sustian a livlohood. Evidently the latter is a better option. Now let's entertain the idea of assets that are used in order to production being community owned by everyone, which is highly unlikely as people have no reason to share what they've built for free, let's say that one such asset is a factory, why would anyone work the factory? after all the worker work because they're given a wage in return for their work and wages are obtained by the selling of goods, you can't obta
Add New Argument

Explaining why Marx was wrong is like needing to explain why raping infants is wrong.

3 points

As A I progresses and robots are able to perform most, then eventually all the functions presently performed by the workers the innovative and industrious entrepreneurs will be able to retain 100% ( less tax) of the profits from their imaginative business ventures while the whinging sheepeople will have to make do with existing on their meagre benefit handouts.

The whingers currently have, and will continue to have the same opportunities to become captains of industry and amass personal fortunes whilst contributing positively to the welfare of their respective countries.

Of course that won't happen. As the robots work tirelessly making the goods the world wants and needs it will still be the same clever, visionary industrial and commercial magnates whose congenital business acumen will ensure that it is they and not the brain dead whingers, who will continue to enjoy sipping their chilled Krug champagne on board their multi-million dollar yachts as they bob gently up and down in the azure blue sea of the Monte-Carlo Harbour.

The go getters will be doing what clever, ambitious and capable people do, GETING RICH

The whingers will be telling their wives;- '' going down pub for pint and pie and to WHINGE about all these clever pigs making more money than the rest of us, bloody robots never go on strike''.

socratic4(147) Disputed
1 point

A business does what it perceives to be most profitable, losing potential customers due to them not having the capital needed in order to be customers as they're unemployed and have no source of income isn't profitable, therefore if automation really led to mass unemployment there wouldn't be any automation.

Even if automation did lead to mass unemployment, the means by which businesses were established in the first place won't disappear, the only thing a business relies on are people that are willing to trade their work in return for a wage and buy its produce, unemployed people fit both categories and therefore new businesses will be established.

Antrim(1287) Disputed
2 points

Your world is rapidly disappearing and will soon be gone with the wind.

The standard pint and pie eating fools will be left scratching their heads wondering what ever happened to their world.

On the other side of the fence there will be the clever tycoons who will have embraced the new A I technology and will have the foresight and flexibility to adjust and adapt their industrial output and financial services to meet the demand in the ever evolving civilian and governmental market sectors.

There are currently millions, nay, worldwide, 10s of millions of unemployed who use their handouts to purchase automobiles, televisions along with a range of other luxury goods all of which are produced by the shrewd, hard working, risk taking entrepreneurial giants.

As the might of the robots marches relentlessly on these figures will increase dramatically.

The brain dead sheepeople will be doled out just sufficient dosh to buy grub and to purchase the goods being manufactured by the corporations.

The days of the whinging masses* holding their employers to ransom are coming to an end as we see motor vehicles being produced by armies of robots and crewless trains transporting 1000s of people around airport terminals.

There are none so blind than those who do not want to see, but as sure as day follows night, so the era of job intensive industries are fading.

Mankind has seen the Stone age, the Bronze age, the Iron age, the Nuclear age, and now we're entering the Robot age.

''Come janitors and joiners,

You must heed the call,

Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall,

For he who gets hurt will be he who has stalled,

There's robot outside and it's raging,

It will soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the robots are going to kick your balls''.

Antrim(1287) Disputed
1 point

Businesses may, up to a point influence the buying habits of the public, but in the main they will cater for the ever changing market trends.

Your business must EVOLVE or you will go under.

You must have what people want and can afford as opposed to what you think they want and should be able to afford.

This business strategy has been the cornerstone of most successful enterprises.

Also, most communists that I’ve encountered cough ANTIFA cough are pretty violent. Most of them dont even know what communism is in the full. Then, when I debate them all they want to do is shout me down and call me names

mrcatsam(663) Clarified
1 point

I have to agree with you. Communism is a foolish ideology even for the far left. Although I do think that there should be a strong central government in case the state governments fail somehow, I do not believe it should take over the entire country with its extreme authoritarianism. In a way, communism is more unfair than capitalism, because communism was a system created to serve a system, not it's people.

Finally, something we can agree upon.........................................

outlaw60(15368) Disputed
1 point

Communism is owned by the Progressives ! Can you Babble some more ???????????

1 point

I would appreciate it if you Orwellian conservatard fuckwits would stop flipping reality on it's head. Thanks, that'd be great. What is morally sound or logically practical about giving 90% of the earnings generated by a company to a few people at the top while giving crumbs to those who did all the work? Would it not be more fair to distribute 90% of the earnings evenly among the workers and give the 10 percent to the small handful of people who sat on their buttocks touching themselves while others made their money for them?

socratic4(147) Disputed
2 points

People should be free to give their money to whomever they want.