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Debate Score:17
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dadman(1703) pic



Modification of Our Germline Genetic Code ????

CODE ?????


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-public-should-have-a-say-in-allowing-modification-of-our-germline-genetic-code/

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/read-prove-god-exists/


Add New Argument
1 point

All forms of LIFE are derived from a source of intelligence ... apply it to whom so ever you will .... I choose God

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THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PATTERNS AND CODES

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PATTERNS occur naturally .. no help required from a 'designer' . . . Many patterns occur in nature without the help of a designer .. snowflakes .. tornadoes .. hurricanes .. sand dunes .. stalactites .. rivers and ocean waves . . . These patterns are the natural result of what scientists categorize as chaos and fractals .. These things are well-understood and we experience them every day

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CODES .. however .. do not occur without a designer . . . Examples of symbolic codes include music .. blueprints .. languages like English and Chinese .. computer programs .. and yes .. DNA

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The essential distinction is the difference between a pattern and a code .. Chaos can produce patterns .. but chaos has never been shown to produce codes or symbols . . . Codes and symbols store information .. which is not a property of matter and energy alone .. Information itself is a separate entity.

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see also: DNA: the tiny code that's toppling evolution

sylynn(626) Disputed
1 point

From your source:

Proof that DNA was designed by a mind: (1) DNA is not merely a molecule with a pattern; it is a code, a language, and an information storage mechanism. (2) All codes we know the origin of are created by a conscious mind. (3) Therefore DNA was designed by a mind, and language and information are proof of the action of a Superintelligence.

There's quite the leap from 2 to 3. First, "All codes we know the origin of: This does not necessarily mean all codes are created by a conscious mind, just those you know the origins of; this is simply an argument from ignorance.

Therefore DNA was designed by a mind, and language and information are proof of the action of a Superintelligence.

Before it can be asserted a superintelligence created DNA, you must first demonstrate a superintelligence even exists.

The article also suggest 5 possible conclusions. Let's unpack them

1) Humans designed DNA

2) Aliens designed DNA

3) DNA occurred randomly and spontaneously

4) There must be some undiscovered law of physics that creates information

5) DNA was Designed by a Superintelligence, i.e. God.

(1) requires time travel or infinite generations of humans. (2) could well be true but only pushes the question back in time. (3) may be a remote possibility, but it’s not a scientific explanation in that it doesn’t refer to a systematic, repeatable process. It’s nothing more than an appeal to luck . (4) could be true but no one can form a testable hypothesis until someone observes a naturally occurring code. So the only systematic explanation that remains is (5) a theological one.

1.) Humans designed DNA: Given our evidence of DNA existing prior to humans I have no problem tossing this one aside (why this was even a conclusion is beyond me).

2.) Aliens designed DNA: This could very well be possible, but no evidence to support it.

3.) DNA occured randomly and spontaneously: Quite possible. There are a number of things you can point to in the universe as being systematic and repeatable such as the creation of stars and planets.

4.) There must be some undiscovered law of physics that creates information Could be true and until DNA is proven to be designed we can only consider it to be natural.

5.) DNA was designed by a superintelligence, i.e. God: prove it.

Occam's razor would so far suggest number 3 as being the most likely cause. Again, just because you don't understand how it could occur naturally doesn't mean it can't.

dadman(1703) Disputed
1 point

Before it can be asserted a superintelligence created DNA, you must first demonstrate a superintelligence even exists.

have you ever seen the wind ?? ... what is it that tells you it exists

you also need to explain biological (atcg) sequence of DNA .... random ?? or code

1 point

CODE IS DEFINED as communication between an encoder ( a writer or speaker ) and a decoder ( a reader or listener ) using agreed upon symbols . . . DNA's definition as a LITERAL CODE ( and not a figurative one ) is nearly universal in the entire body of biological literature since the 1960's . . . DNA code has much in common with human language and computer languages . . . DNA transcription is an encoding / decoding mechanism isomorphic with Claude Shannon's 1948 model: .. The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA which is decoded into proteins .. Genetic information passes from DNA to an RNA copy and then is READ in the cell by the the ribosome which makes a protein molecule based on the genetic information encoded in DNA . . . This is the central tenet of molecular biology . . . Information theory terms and ideas applied to DNA are not metaphorical .. but in fact quite literal in every way . . . In other words .. the information theory argument for design is not based on analogy at all .. it is direct application of mathematics to DNA .. which by definition is a code

1 point

The Origins of Information: Exploring and Explaining Biological Information

In the 21st century, the information age has finally come to biology. We now know that biology at its root is comprised of information rich systems, such as the complex digital code encoded in DNA. Groundbreaking discoveries of the past decade are revealing the information bearing properties of biological systems.

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Philosopher of science Dr. Stephen C. Meyer is examining and explaining the amazing depth of digital technology found in each and every living cell, such as nested coding, digital processing, distributive retrieval and storage systems, and genomic operating systems.

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Meyer is developing a more fundamental argument for intelligent design that is based not on a single feature like the bacterial flagellum, but rather on a pervasive feature of all living systems. Alongside matter and energy, Dr. Meyer shows that there is a third fundamental entity in the universe needed for life: information.

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http://www.stephencmeyer.org/