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Morality vs reason
Morality is a pointless load of crap based on superstition and inter-subjective cultural norms and only reason and compassion can save humans from molesting each other in the butt hole. Prove me wrong.
Reasonable Morality? If Morality was a law of Nature, that would make it a lot easier. However we are currently experiencing the dilemma of Free Will. So i'm afraid we are going to have to Logic/Reason our way to properly observe Morality.
Morality IS a law of nature, it is something created naturally by humans. We have seen echoes of it in our ancestors, even our four legged ones. It, like anything else life based, has arisen from evolution and is an obvious evolutionary advantage.
Moraility is as maleable as any individulistic value, laws are only changed through capable and intructed reasoning, we only live in a society thanks to the laws that force us to act in a societal manner, there are no moral obligations enforced on anyone, yet laws are enforced at each level of human society. Reason is therefore better at moral decitions than morality.
This debate is a false dichotomy. There is a significant amount of brain space dedicated to moral reasoning. Indeed, this very debate is a moral attempt to reason for the elevation of reason above morals. It doesn't present an actual debatable choice, but rather illustrates the confusion of the debate creator.
There's plenty to discuss about reason and morality, but a discussion of "either/or" isn't truly one of them.
You obviously possess neither reason or morals since you support No Restriction abortions, for any reason, while the majority of Americans are against it.
Good God you get boring with this. I've told you I don't support it but hey, it doesn't fit in the box you try to put people in so yeah, let's just ignore what people flat out tell you about their own beliefs. Sound logical.
Why is when a person votes for a KKK member, you would call him a racist and a supporter of racism, but when you vote for politicians who supports No Restriction abortion, you can deny culpability?
Says the hideous denier. Look, you need to stop acting like you know who I voted for and who I support not to mention what I support. I've said it enough, that you can't accept that and want to continue your lie is on you now.
I have done what I set out to do, which is to wake you up to the inhumanity you support with your vote. But as long as you keep denying it, I will keep holding you to account every time you talk about the supposed compassion of the Left.
If you had ever told me you refused to vote for those who support No Restrictions, I would have applauded you and never bothered you again.
But of course we both know that in the past and future you will have no problem voting for the Democrat Party no matter that they support No Restriction abortions.
This is why you have never cleared up the subject with one simple sentence.
You haven't done anything of the like but it's amazing (and a little sad) that's how you cheer yourself on. The only thing you do and continue to do is write your own narrative in your own little bubble of how you think everyone is, that's why you refuse to listen to what people say and the facts presented, it will scare the unholy crap out of you when you finally find out truth.
A five year old can understand the simple truth of my words.
A child understands that we are all responsible for knowingly supporting inhumanity with our vote.
If you truly believe the deception and denial coming out of your mouth, then I've got you all wrong.
I actually believed you at least possessed the intellect to understand your obvious deception, and deliberately denying it to hide your support of the inhuman act of No Restriction abortion.
Dishonest insecure people lack the character to admit the terrible things they support with their vote. So which is it? Do you lack the simple intellect to grasp the obvious, or are you deceptive.
It's quite amazing and very telling you never respond to the obvious analogy I give concerning the culpability of a person who knowingly elects a KKK member. Would he be responsible for any furtherance of racism with his vote?
The five year old's answer.... OF COURSE HE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE.
Mint_tea's answer.... INSULTING THOSE WHO STATE THE OBVIOUS.
I have never said that because Democrats support No Restriction abortions, that they are wrong on all other issues.
I point out which issues they are OBVIOUSLY wrong.
You are another Liberal with less than a five year old's intellect. You also refuse to admit you support killing viable babies every time you vote for a Democrat that supports it (which is most of them).
I see you also refuse to answer the simple question about voting for a KKK member and being responsible for racist policies.
I would think anyone who cares about the holocaust of Jews would not be supporting the holocaust of our unborn, even viable babies!
Outlaw tell us more about that blessed bastion of right wing ideology you love so much, Slobodan Milosevic. An incorruptable champion of the people, you say?
In the midst of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, Milošević was charged by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) with war crimes in connection to the wars in Bosnia, Croatia, and Kosovo.[1] Milošević resigned from the Yugoslav presidency amid demonstrations, following the disputed presidential election of 24 September 2000. He was arrested by Yugoslav federal authorities on 31 March 2001 on suspicion of corruption, abuse of power, and embezzlement.[2][3]
The Obama administration on Friday directed schools across the nation to provide transgender students with access to suitable facilities — including bathrooms and locker rooms — that match their chosen gender identity.
The move, which affects all public schools and most colleges and universities that receive federal funds, plunges the administration even further into the country’s ongoing contentious debate over transgender rights.
The directive comes from two top administration officials: Catherine E. Lhamon, the assistant secretary of education for civil rights, and Vanita Gupta, head of the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. It put state and local officials and higher-education institutions on notice that they risk losing federal education aid if they limit students to areas or teams based on their gender assigned at birth.
Now you FUCKING CONFUSED IDIOT that exposes your morals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dummy do you want a Gender Confused Man in the Girl's Bathroom with your Autistic Kid ????????????????????????????????? What you got to say Dummy ???????????
The Obama administration on Friday directed schools across the nation to provide transgender students with access to suitable facilities — including bathrooms and locker rooms — that match their chosen gender identity.
The move, which affects all public schools and most colleges and universities that receive federal funds, plunges the administration even further into the country’s ongoing contentious debate over transgender rights.
The directive comes from two top administration officials: Catherine E. Lhamon, the assistant secretary of education for civil rights, and Vanita Gupta, head of the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. It put state and local officials and higher-education institutions on notice that they risk losing federal education aid if they limit students to areas or teams based on their gender assigned at birth.
Now you FUCKING CONFUSED IDIOT that exposes your morals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First: THAT debate is so removed, you must have a personal bone to pick with it.
Second: Why do you think i would defend a power hungry moron like Obama?
Third: This whole gender debate is silly in general, there are only two sexes and therefore two genders, any other number is an anomaly and ridiculous.
Fourth: the only reason this is a debate is because of public schools and heavy government involvement in education.
You are the idiot who believes morality is some inherent part of human cognition and not a learned program in the human brain, isn't that right? When you learn what morality is come back, until then suck my gruffalo nuggets. Morality is incompatible with reason because it is essentially a social construct that gets imprinted on your brain from society, and has no inherent connection to empathy or compassion contrary to popular belief. Yes, most people would say it's "immoral" to kill people but morality also deals with trivial and illogical things such as whether homosexuality or masturbation is right or wrong. Morality is absolutely meaningless, when people say it is "immoral" to molest toddlers what they really mean is "unethical". Morality is just the arbitrary taboos and values people come up with within different cultures and has nothing to do with empathy or compassion in an inherent sense like I said before.
That's the exact opposite of simple. There is no universal consensus on what someone "ought" to do. For example, I believe that you "ought not" deliberately misrepresent the views of the people you disagree with. But clearly, you do not agree with that rule.
Empathy and compassion are social constructs
No they aren't you misguided fool. Biological altruism is an observable phenomena in many species of animal.
I think most people would say it depends on why you’re killing.
Taking another life is pretty much the only single action regarded as de facto immoral across all human cultures. Hence, it is the only real evidence you have that there is an objective "ought" and "ought not". Why you would reject practically the only concept which exists to support your initial premise is frankly beyond my ability to fathom. Indeed, even by applying the terminology of "most people"(rather than "all people") you undermine your initial premise of a universal "ought" and "ought not".
Is there nothing that people ought, and ought not do?
There possibly was, but you just rejected the notion.
In predictable Amarel style, you have spent your entire post contradicting yourself.
well to be fair, binary is about as simple as one can get.
objective Reality does not depend on consensus (universal or otherwise).
did you observe that phenomena in many species of animals within a social construct...? perhaps
taking life is not considered immoral de facto by many human cultures. i'm not sure what planet you are referring to...???
also, using Man's flawed views of ethics is hardly what we would consider "evidence" of Morality... that would be silly. again just because something can be objective and universally True, does not necessarily mean that thing will be understood and agreed upon in some sort of consensus. can you imagine trying to do your Science the same way??? that would be completely retarded...
I REALLY hope not too many go through this life with YOUR moral compass. The world is immoral by most peoples standards in many different ways. It was even MORE immoral in the middle ages and before that. As people grew more intelligent morals changed. Hopefully, that will continue regardless of those with attitudes like yours.
I don't agree with many peoples ideas of morality … Mike Pence, for instance … but, if it keeps them with some iota of compassion for some people, it is a better thing than no "morals" at all!
I REALLY hope not too many go through this life with YOUR moral compass. The world is immoral by most peoples standards in many different ways. It was even MORE immoral in the middle ages and before that. As people grew more intelligent morals changed. Hopefully, that will continue regardless of those with attitudes like yours.
I don't agree with many peoples ideas of morality … Mike Pence, for instance … but, if it keeps them with some iota of compassion for some people, it is a better thing than no "morals" at all!
Gruffalo nuggets are best deep fried … IMO.
Now GRANDPAW a confused SOCIALIST wants to preach about morals !!!!!!!!
The Obama administration on Friday directed schools across the nation to provide transgender students with access to suitable facilities — including bathrooms and locker rooms — that match their chosen gender identity.
The move, which affects all public schools and most colleges and universities that receive federal funds, plunges the administration even further into the country’s ongoing contentious debate over transgender rights.
The directive comes from two top administration officials: Catherine E. Lhamon, the assistant secretary of education for civil rights, and Vanita Gupta, head of the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. It put state and local officials and higher-education institutions on notice that they risk losing federal education aid if they limit students to areas or teams based on their gender assigned at birth.
Now you FUCKING CONFUSED IDIOT that exposes your morals !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Obama Administration wrote every public school district in the country Friday warning local administrators they have to let transgender students use bathrooms matching their gender identity.
The guidance signed by Justice and Education officials, while not a legal decree, implicitly threatens noncompliant schools with lawsuits or the withdrawal of federal funding.
“As a condition of receiving Federal funds, a school agrees that it will not exclude, separate, deny benefits to, or otherwise treat differently on the basis of sex any person in its educational programs or activities unless expressly authorized to do so under Title IX or its implementing regulations,” the letter, posted Friday on the Department of Justice website, says. “The Departments treat a student’s gender identity as the student’s sex for purposes of Title IX and its implementing regulations. This means that a school must not treat a transgender student differently from the way it treats other students of the same gender identity.”
DUMMY talk about MORALS you SOCIALIST have none !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your ASS is deep fried in STUPIDITY and you expose that STUPIDITY daily you UNINFORMED FUCKING IDIOT !!!!!!
You DUMMIES cannot figure out that there a 2 sexes !!!!!!!!!!!! 1 is a man the other is a woman !!!!! Hey DUMMY has the MALE and FEMALE bathrooms CONFUSED you most of your life ?????????????????????????
who believes morality is some inherent part of human cognition and not a learned program in the human brain
God hasn't clarified this. and scientists definitely won't be able to discern this. it is reasonable to assume that there is a significant percentage hardwired. the easiest way to test this theory is on subjects who were never instructed. but we still can't rule out self-taught. it is overwhelming taught, which is why it isn't usually debated.
OOOF, there's a lot of religious indoctrination to unpack there gruffalo.
First off, Morality is NOT a social construct, i don't understand where you would get that from, but holy shit son, Morality is way older than even man.
Real morality is base off of two things and two things only and even that could be summed down into one phrase. Those two things are:
The survival of the individual DNA and the survival of the group (which is an extension of the first programmed into us due to our social nature as animals) generally based on phenotypes, but can be extended with humans to include other ways of being tribalistic like religion and who you like to screw.
As for why homosexuality would naturally grow to be considered immoral is obvious. It does nothing for either of those two. It does nothing to expand the bloodline, either for the group or for the individual.
Why is it not okay to masturbate? Well first its wasted seed, second like drugs it can become addictive and provides a false reward in the brain which makes men less ambitious, third it tends to weaken pair bonding, and therefore marriages, and therefore strong families and stable homes.
The reason why different cultures express that differently is the same reason why you and i react differently to the same stimuli. WE just like THEM have different experiences, different perceptions of the world, different environments. In essence because we are individuals and that my friend manifests in as many ways as there are grains of sand upon the beach.
As Karl Marx liked to say "Nothing human is surprising"
But it obviously is. Saying demonstrably false things isn't going to help people determine that you aren't intellectually deficient, if that was what you were hoping for.
i don't understand where you would get that from
How about the fact that every single culture which has ever existed on planet Earth has had a completely different interpretation and definition of morality? The ancient Greeks used to sleep with children for heaven's sake.
How about the fact that philosophers disproved the notion of objective morality hundreds of years ago? How about the fact that people like yourself are the object of ridicule in intellectual circles?
The survival of the individual DNA
What the fuck are you even blathering about? Survival of DNA hasn't got anything to do with morality. If you could save your DNA from extinction by raping and executing everybody at your local college frat party, you are telling us that would be a moral decision?
What fucked up, fucking crazy shit are you smoking there bro?
Maybe read the whole post. I know reading is hard bob, but maybe just maybe we can bring your Reading Comp. up a point by practicing. As Tyrion says, "A mind needs a book, like a sword needs a whetstone." or something along those lines, I'm not going to look it up.
Now i need you to breath, take a nice big long breath. Count to 10. You good? K Lets continue.
"How about the fact that every single culture which has ever existed on planet earth has had a completely different interpretation and definition of morality?"
Yeah because people are individuals with individual ideas, interpretations, feelings, wants and needs. Do you think life as robots all programmed by DNA to come up with the same solution to similar problems? No! We all try different things, we see how that works and we adjust. What has brought humanity to the top of the food chain is our adaptability. Our ability to come up with multiple solutions to a single problem. Of course this leads to multiple manifestations.
"If you could save your DNA from extinction by raping and executing everybody at your local college frat party, you are telling us that would be a moral decision?"
Well first show me how that would lead to the survival of the single DNA? How would many individuals committing that crime and allowing for it ever lead to survival of the individual or the group? I can count reasons it wouldn't.
If survival of dna hasnt got anything to do with morality, then why does every civilization naturally create one. Also i never said morality is objective, i would say that my arguement was completely the opposite. It is subjective to the biological structure taking action.
Morality is first and foremost. There is no reason without a morality for truth. Logic and reason themselves spring from morality.
What reason is there for me not to diddle your butt hole? If i wanted to do it, what would stop me if not the morality of others. if not the way it makes others feel.
Reason means nothing. We can all reason and rationalize anything and everything.
