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Debate Info

3
12
Yes, makes sense No, youre wrong
Debate Score:15
Arguments:15
Total Votes:15
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, makes sense (3)
 
 No, youre wrong (7)

Debate Creator

trumpet_guy(502) pic



Morality without religion?

Has morality (objective or absolute) ever existed without the initiation by religion? To me it seems like non-theists have an ad-hoc position on morality in the same way religion has an ad-hoc position in scientific advancements. Thoughts on this?

Yes, makes sense

Side Score: 3
VS.

No, youre wrong

Side Score: 12

Morality can certainly exist without religion. However, I don't believe influencing a society toward a uniform moral code has ever succeeded by any measure except when using religion as a tool to do so- and even that has only been marginally successful.

Side: Yes, makes sense
3 points

Humans invented religion, so since the first religious writers were able to create a morality from nothing I think it is pretty easy to come up with morality without religion.

I am not sure what you mean by ad hoc. Is ad hoc where you have a rule that says don't murder people, but then go around killing tons of people claiming it isn't murder so it is justified?

Side: No, youre wrong

There is no such thing as objective morality, even in the case of religion. Religious morality has changed many times. Take Biblical morality for example; At one time it was perfectly moral to stone people to death for minor offenses, owning and beating slaves was okay with god, beating your children with a rod for disobeying was touted as a good thing, selling your daughters as slaves and wives was all fine and dandy. Today those things are considered reprehensible. Religion isn't the source of morality, common sense is. You don't have to be a genius to figure out that raping, murdering and stealing isn't going to lead to a happy and prosperous society, which is what nearly every person on this planet desires.

Side: No, youre wrong
trumpet_guy(502) Clarified
1 point

Its funny cause at least God judged people on their conscious actions. Its funny how the same people who say Gods judgements are unfair, are all for the slaughter of unborn children. At least God judged conscious actions.

Side: Yes, makes sense
LittleMisfit(1747) Clarified
3 points

Its funny cause at least God judged people on their conscious actions.

Actually, no he didn't. He condemned all of mankind because of the actions of Adam and Eve. It wasn't my conscious decision to inherit the sins of my forefathers and be punished for what they did.

What conscious action did the slaves take that was worthy of punishment when god said it was okay to beat them? Exodus 21:20-21

What conscious action did the young girls take that was worthy of punishment when he said it was okay to sell them? Exodus 21:7-11

Its funny how the same people who say Gods judgements are unfair, are all for the slaughter of unborn children. At least God judged conscious actions.

And why is it wrong to terminate the life of something that has no consciousness? What is it about killing that makes it wrong? I've asked this to people who are against abortion many times but have never received a response.

Do you believe gods judgements are fair?

Is beating your slaves a fair thing to do?

Is selling your daughters fair to them?

Is killing someone for trying to be helpful fair? 2 Samuel 6:1–7

Is subjecting people to eternal torment for finite and minor crimes fair?

These are not rhetorical question. I want you to answer them truthfully.

Side: Yes, makes sense
2 points

Well, kind of. I think morality would exist without religion because it's most likely a human invention, but I think religion helped spread morality across the globe. Without it, the world may have been a little less moral, but religion has led to many problems as well. That's due to there being too many religions.

Side: No, youre wrong
1 point

If God told you to torture a three year old with a scalpel, would you to it?

Side: No, youre wrong

There is always something I wondered about people who believe in moral objectivity. What does it mean for something to be morally objective? What makes something objectively right, if right and wrong is what is BAD and what is GOOD, that sounds inherently subjective to me... I can't even imaginably comprehend what it would mean for something to be objectively right or objectively wrong, I can't imagine that... it's like trying to imagine a square circle... Morality is inherently subjective, the same way a circle is inherently round, to talk about objective morality sounds like someone talking about a square circle to me. What makes something objectively moral? You could just have a different definition of morality than me, but if that is the case, maybe I don't care to be "moral" by your definition?

Side: No, youre wrong