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My problems with Capitalism
(Story time with TheCapConKid) Say that there was a Man, a woman (his wife) who was pregnant, and their thirteen year old son. If you are a capitalist you probably hate welfare but why? The father works at a factory with little down to no safety laws and at minimum wage, and he was forced to work there because there was no other way to work since he was in the middle of nowhere. The mother was due for pregnancy but was worried that the delivery was going to cost so much that it would financially devastate the family forever. The son wanted to be a doctor and we all know that it requires a degree in the medical field. Something that they could never afford. A few weeks later the father severely injured himself on the equipment (By accident) and because of it disables himself permanently. The amount to treat his leg/arm/whatever cost somewhere around $10K-$20K (Because my uncle was hit by a sailboat boom in the back of the head and had a small gash on his head. That was over $6K). They couldn't afford health insurance so they had to get a major loan to treat his disability. He was fired for his inability to complete his job properly and because of his disability he was no longer able to get a job. A few weeks later man's wife is due to pregnancy and her water breaks. A very painful few hours/day and the baby is delivered. Excitement fills the room and the family, until the day after when they are confronted with the bill. (Let's assume it was around $10K because I have no clue how much deliveries cost). By now they are eternally in debt and are unable to get another loan. They are stuck...
Better working laws and conditions would have prevented the injury.
Higher minimum wage would have given them more money.
State payed college would have allowed the boy to fulfill his dream.
State healthcare could have paid his for his injury and the mother's pregnancy.
Welfare could have come and helped support the family.
Hope you enjoyed the short story and I would like to hear your feedback.
Note: I won't ban you for disagreeing with my statement or for hating me for my statement.
Don't you just love the so called compassion from those who say they care for the poor? These same people support with their vote, aborting any baby for any reason right up to birth, and then if the Baby somehow survives the abortion (which does happen) these same compassionate people vote for the politicians who say, LET THE BABY DIE!
This is a debate about capitalism, not abortion - I am a democratic socialist as stated before, however I do not support abortion - so I would suggest that you stick to the topic instead of making a fool out of yourself. Oh... wait... too late, sorry!
I am a democratic socialist, and there are so many real stories about families lives ruined because of capitalism, yet you chose to make one up to make a point.
Big Government can run a capitalist system ? Or are you saying you want big government to run all business in this country because that would make all fair and equal ?
What i find very interesting is does socialism really drive any entrepreneurship in that type of environment ?
You can actually have a welfare system allowing everyone health care, the education they want and the financial support they need without taking a toll too big on the major businesses. Look at the most well functioning societies in the world like Germany, Denmark, Sweden and Norway - these are also the most socialistic countries in the world.
Of course, our citizens pay a lot of taxes (a lot in your eyes, at least), the more wealthy pay more taxes percentage wise. However businesses don't pay an extreme amount of taxes, we balance their tax payments to the point where they can manage to grow as a business.
I can't really explain what is free in a socialist system, I could rather elaborate on how it works in Denmark, where I live.
Education is free, from first grade all the way up, college included. As a student over 18, I am supported financially from the state as well, and since I have a child, I get support to give her a decent life as well. If I wanted to study abroad, the danish government would support me with 20.000 usd a year to pay for tuition and housing.
Everyone has unlimited access to hospitals and whatever care they may need is provided by the state.
We have a poverty limit in Denmark, meaning that you can't be poorer than something that has been defined by the danish law. If you are poorer than the poverty limit allows you to, you are financially supported until you don't need it anymore.
Some people that may be under the poverty limits are for example unemployed people. If you are unemployed there is a special system for you, where you are required to apply for a number of jobs pr. month in order to receive the support, and if you decline a job that you have been offered, you will lose the support from the state. This is to ensure that people aren't unemployed by choice, and are abusing the state.
I can't really think of more, but I think you get the idea. What we value is that everyone has a decent life, we are proud to say that as of 2015 Denmark's class distinction is the lowest in the world.
You mentioned Norway so let's look at that tax rate !
27 percent on the corporate tax
47.2 percent on the individual tax
So let's look at the freebies you socialist want they come from taxes. Now how does that taxation take place and what might generate those taxes in those socialist nirvana's ?
All salaries are paid through the bank, and the bank calculates the taxes of your payment for you, when you receive the money on your bank account the taxes have already been withdrawn.
If you are caught paying your workers around the banks to avoid paying taxes both the employer and the employees will receive big fines. However I have never heard of this happening.
I think you have asked this same question at least five times now, and every time I've replied with the same answer. Taxation comes from citizens and businesses of a country.
I don't know how to make it more clear for you, maybe you want the dictionary definition of taxes?
Taxes (noun)
a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc.
Now you wrote this and they are your words -"I am a democratic socialist, and there are so many real stories about families lives ruined because of capitalism"
So where does taxation come from in the socialist system you support !
Believe me, I know what you mean. Sadly, those seem few and far between here at the moment. More often than not you'll simply find people trying to piss others off, or people who just want to yell at others.
I hve looked at the socialist european nations and so foten they are in some sort of financial meltdown from all of their socialistic spending putting them in huge debt.
There would be FAR MORE LIVES RUINED from socialism but don't ever talk about all the middle class families taxed to death. I always wondered why Socialist canadiens quite often come to America for healthcare. Hmmmmmm.
Maybe you missed it. After Obamacare was passed, the middle class healthcare premiums and deuctibles SKYROCKETED and if you do not want to pay for the huge cost, or can barely pay your bills, you are taxed a large fee for not signing up.
Maybe you missed it in other socialist nations where some people are taxed 75% of their earnings.
I have vacationed in Canada, and everytime I go, it amazes me how many taxes they have on hotels, restaurants, etc. It is VERY EXPENSIVE to live there.
Socialism taxes people to death and does what it was intended to do, bring everyone down to more equal levels regardless of work effort, personal responsibility, etc.
Socialist believe everyone shoud have the same quality of life no matter what choices they make.
Conservatives understand that the merit system is the only system that will bring out the best in a people. Conservatives understand as with raising our children, the consequences to bad behavior is what teaches valuable lessons in life. Accountability for one's choices in life brings out the best in people.
There must be some pain in life to motivate the responsible choices we all need to make. The pain of low income motivates the hard work it takes to acheive a better life. No one is starving to death in this nation and every person can find a shelter to sleep under if they want one.
Have you ever noticed the lenght of time so many people will stay on unemployment, if the Government keeps giving it to them? Many will gladly take the easy life over working for as long as possilbe. THAT IS HUMAN NATURE!
Socialism is a form of unemployment. If someone will keep giving you free stuff without having to work for it, why would they work? Why would they work hard to succede when after all the hard work, their income is redistributed to bring them right back down to those who refuse to work hard, right back down to the collective.
Your little utopia will never exist. Your world where the hard working responsible people gladly give up most of their hard earned money to those who do not work hard, just for the sake of fairness? THAT IS NOT FAIR!
Working hard SHOULD be rewarded. That is what gives the incentive to work hard and create jobs. The people on the Left who CONSTANTLY bring up the one percenters, are liars because soiclaism also taxes the middle class to death. They talked about taxing the 1% in this nation and then we found out that those making $250,000 would also pay higher taxes..... LIARS!
and if you do not want to pay for the huge cost, or can barely pay your bills, you are taxed a large fee for not signing up.
Exactly. Maybe you should try it differently next time. A danish citizen has no other choice than to pay taxes - it is not a choice, it is something that everyone does. All salary payments are paid through the banks, the banks will then calculate the taxes of your paycheck, so when the money appear on your account the taxes have already been withdrawn. Just because Obama sucked at creating a more equal society, that doesn't mean an equal society isn't something America should try to obtain.
Maybe you missed it in other socialist nations where some people are taxed 75% of their earnings.
I didn't, what's your point?
I have vacationed in Canada, and everytime I go, it amazes me how many taxes they have on hotels, restaurants, etc. It is VERY EXPENSIVE to live there.
Which is why I said; take notes from the northern European countries, the most well functioning countries in the world.
Socialism taxes people to death
Not in Denmark, not in Sweden, not in Norway, not in Germany and not in Iceland. You can keep saying it, but the truth is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
and does what it was intended to do, bring everyone down to more equal levels regardless of work effort, personal responsibility, etc.
And that's where you prove yourself to not have an understanding of this system again. You see, there are plenty of millionaires in Denmark, there are plenty of major businesses in Denmark as well as the other Scandinavian countries - in fact Sweden has more millionaires pr. capita than any other country in the world. So you are VERY mistaken!
Conservatives understand that the merit system is the only system that will bring out the best in a people.
Here is how capitalism works:
Those who have can make more, and those who don't have are stuck in the situation they are in for the rest of their lives. So no, capitalism does not bring out the best in people, actually you are throwing away talent that could have become something, but didn't get the chance because they had no way of achieving the knowledge needed to make something out of their talent.
Danes consider free education as an investment. A lot of educated people means a lot of knowledge to do good with - and it HAS shown to be a success. 30% of the population in USA has a bachelor's degree or more. In Denmark it is over 60%.
It is a shame that 200 million american people are thrown in the trash, never having a chance to make anything out of themselves because of your terrible school system. Imagine what those millions could've done for your country.
No one is starving to death in this nation and every person can find a shelter to sleep under if they want one.
In 2013, 14.3 percent of households (17.5 million households, approximately one in seven), were food insecure (Coleman-Jensen 2014b, p. 1). This is down slightly from 14.9 percent food insecure in 2008 and 2009 which was the highest number recorded since these statistics have been kept (Coleman-Jensen 2014b, p.1 ).
In 2013, 5.6 percent of U.S. households (6.8 million households) had very low food security. In this more severe range of food insecurity, the food intake of some household members was reduced and normal eating patterns were disrupted at times during the year due to limited resources (Coleman-Jensen 2014b, p.1) .
Children were food insecure at times during the year in 9.9 percent of households with children. These 3.8 million households were unable at times during the year to provide adequate, nutritious food for their children While children are usually shielded by their parents, who go hungry themselves, from the disrupted eating patterns and reduced food intake that characterize very low food security, both children and adults experienced instances of very low food security in 0.9 percent of households with children (360,000 households) in 2013 (Coleman-Jensen 2014b, p. 2).
Socialism is a form of unemployment. If someone will keep giving you free stuff without having to work for it, why would they work? Why would they work hard to succede when after all the hard work, their income is redistributed to bring them right back down to those who refuse to work hard, right back down to the collective.
Well this is a theory I urge you to prove. Because from the research I've done the unemployment rate in America and Denmark are the same.
Your little utopia will never exist.
It does - Norway, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland and Iceland.
Working hard SHOULD be rewarded.
Oh my god!!! IT IS REWARDED! Like I mentioned earlier, more millionaires pr. capita in Sweden than any other country.
You are correct when you say I do not fully understand your version of Socialism in your nation. LIKEWISE you do not have a clue of our form of Capitalism in America. You might isten to our liberal biased media and those on the Left who are closet Socialists, but you have no clue of the benefits of Capitalism in this nation and the benefits the world derives from our capitalism.
You said..... "Those who have can make more, and those who don't have are stuck in the situation they are in for the rest of their lives. So no, capitalism does not bring out the best in people, actually you are throwing away talent that could have become something, but didn't get the chance because they had no way of achieving the knowledge needed to make something out of their talent."
That could not be further from the truth. I am the person you say had no chance to get ahead. I was not stuck in my situation for the rest of my life! My family was not wealthy when it came to having nice homes and nice things, but rich in Love for their children. They taught us a work ethic and to know that with hard work, and responsible living, we would get ahead and have good lives. They were right!
This is what America's capitalism was all about but is now losing to this progressive no fault mindset of how everyone is owed a living from others. The higher taxes and regulations are suffocating this once thriving economy. Since the most liberal President in our history was elected seven years ago, we have yet to have good GDP growth as in the past.
People from around the world came to America in droves because they knew with our freedoms and Capitalism, ANYONE could get ahead and have a better future. It is still the same today with many people trying to come to America to get a taste of freedom and smaller less intrusive Government.
How many immigrants flock to your nation's?
I'm still wondering how much your nation spends on your military to help protect the world from the spread of evil. It's nice being able to let America do all your dirty work and spend your own money on yourselves.
but you have no clue of the benefits of Capitalism in this nation and the benefits the world derives from our capitalism.
Yes I do, I also know the flaws and disadvantages of it - and I feel that the disadvantages are not worth the advantages you get. That is simply my political opinion. I don't think billion dollar businesses are worth the majority of the citizens living in poverty.
You KEEP MISSING THE POINT! The majority of those people living in poverty are doing so from personal irresponsibility whether it be getting pregnant with some dead beat man who refuses to support his child, or taking drugs, or buying brand new cars you can not afford, or taking out huge student loans you can not afford instead of going to a community College, etc. etc. etc.
What I truly hate about Liberals and Socialists is that they never want to hold people responsible for their choices in life.
It is not the responsiblity of others to continually bail out irresponsibility. For the people who are disabled, or can not work, or having serious health problems, or things happening through no fault of their own, I have no problem helping with food and shelter but i will not support free College, free obamacare, things that are not a necessity for life. If some people have lower income, THAT'S LIFE! No one is guaranteed a wonderful life. People can help the needy, but that does not mean giving every single person the good life. The good life means working for it which gives incentives for people to work hard and maybe create jobs.
The majority of those people living in poverty are doing so from personal irresponsibility whether it be getting pregnant with some dead beat man who refuses to support his child, or taking drugs, or buying brand new cars you can not afford, or taking out huge student loans you can not afford instead of going to a community College, etc. etc. etc.
How is it that the American people are doing so much worse in than Scandinavians and germans? Could it be because the political system has failed them? Because I could support that theory with facts.
What I truly hate about Liberals and Socialists is that they never want to hold people responsible for their choices in life.
What I truly hate about conservatives and capitalists is that they never want to hold themselves responsible for the damage they cause.
If some people have lower income, THAT'S LIFE!
Yes, it is life. However I believe no matter which class you come from you deserve the health care you need, and you have a right to obtain the knowledge you need in order to get the job that you want. Nobody said equal pay - we say equal rights! Why should a child of a lower class family not get medical treatment when sick - is that fair? Why should a young person not have a chance to get a degree because their family can't afford it? I don't think that's fair.
We have medicaid for people who can not afford a doctor. We have welfare for food, shelter, etc. IT IS ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF! Buts that's not good enough for Socialists, they want to make every thing free and tax the workers to death to pay for it.
College is no one's right! Just because you think it is, means nothing to me. Who are you to tell Americans what our rights are? I don't believe it is a right and our nation has never made it a right.
Maybe do you don't understand why our Colleges charge so much for tutition. These extravagent tutition costs started about the time that Government decided to give students low cost loans to go to college. Well gee, open the flood gtes to the Colleges to charge whatever they want because little Johnny can just get a loan with low interest.
Whenever there is more money to be had, there will be those who will gladly take it by raising their prices.
Many chldren are not College material so what we would have is parents pushing every child into College no matter that all he will do is party and drop out. We need the laborers in society. We need contruction workers, plumbers, electricians, welders, machinists, you name it and it would be ludicrous to send everyone to College when they find out they would rather be a laborer with less pressure.
Who are you to tell Americans what our rights are?
You are the one shouting out your thoughts about abortion - that is a matter of rights, isn't it? You have criticized socialist nations for not respecting what in your eyes is a ''right'', so if you can do that, so can I.
Maybe do you don't understand why our Colleges charge so much for tutition. These extravagent tutition costs started about the time that Government decided to give students low cost loans to go to college. Well gee, open the flood gtes to the Colleges to charge whatever they want because little Johnny can just get a loan with low interest.
That makes no sense at all. But now that we're on the topic of tuition costs - I don't think it is right that a man should spend his entire life paying off his student loans - that seems completely ridiculous to me, and to think that capitalists (the people who say it should pay to work) think this is okay is beyond me.
Whenever there is more money to be had, there will be those who will gladly take it by raising their prices.
That's why it should be handled by the state - controlled and paid by the state.
Many chldren are not College material
Many children that don't get a chance to go to college ARE college material. You are wasting talent.
so what we would have is parents pushing every child into College no matter that all he will do is party and drop out.
What would you do? You would end up with a country of well educated people, maybe you would even have brains enough to vote for a socialistic party. Like I said, free education IS a success - you can keep coming with these useless questions that you cannot support with any facts, what we still experience everyday is the success of free education in those countries where it is. 60% of danes have a higher education while only less than 30% have an higher education in the states - that is a lot of wasted talent.
And if you think every child is forced to go to college, that is not correct at all. We should encourage all children to pursue the dreams they have, whether they want to be a doctor or be a constructor.
We need contruction workers, plumbers, electricians, welders, machinists,
Do you think we don't have construction workers, plumbers, electricians, welders and machinists in Denmark? Do you honestly think that?
The difference between America and Denmark is that in Denmark you actually get a decent pay for the above listed jobs, so therefore people who aren't interested in a job that requires a higher education, they don't go to school. In America, these jobs give terrible payments, so therefore american parents push their kids to college because they know, that no other job will give them a decent life. Since that isn't the case in Denmark, parents don't push their children in school - instead they encourage them to go whatever path they want to.
Considering the limitations of Medicaid your overall points weren't particularly affected, I just knew that FromWithin was going to jump at you for that since he believes Medicaid completely solves the issue with the poor on this country needing medical insurance and care.
What he doesn't understand is that a medical system for everybody, not just poor and lower class, but even for the billionaires in the states would be so much more effective.
It is only a few, few people who use private hospitals and schools in socialistic countries. The more people using the health care provided by the state, the better it will become, the more money is admitted to the government health care, and thus it becomes more effective.
What he doesn't understand is that a medical system for everybody, not just poor and lower class, but even for the billionaires in the states would be so much more effective.
Based on extensive past conversations with him, "effective" doesn't seem to be the primary issue. He seems to put far more value in principles than in actual results, so much that if a "Left-wing" program proved to legitimately work to solve a problem, he would still oppose it because it does not solve it in the way that falls in line with his principles. Not that such a view is all that uncommon, unfortunately, but that seems to be how it is with him.
It is only a few, few people who use private hospitals and schools in socialistic countries. The more people using the health care provided by the state, the better it will become, the more money is admitted to the government health care, and thus it becomes more effective.
And I assure you, you could provide him with the statistics comparing the United States with Social Democracies like Germany or the Scandenavian nations, and that wouldn't change his mind. His opposition isn't based on results, and so results are to be ignored. He will oppose all possible solutions unless they are based on his political beliefs (adamantly right-wing).
Yes you are right. He hasn't provided any of his claims with any reasonable facts. He simply asks questions of worry to what these socialist values will lead to without realizing the answer to his questions have already been answered.
To be fair, I think there are legitimate questions to be asked about the possible shortfalls of implementing social democratic theory in the United States (and I say that as a Social Democratic). That problem is that he isn't asking any of them.
Yes of course, those are legit worries and problems that should be fixed. The welfare system in the northern European countries didn't come after one day, the welfare state as we know it today has been created through decades, and decades of mistakes and fixing those mistakes, and we are still working on it to make it even better. However, I do believe that if America starts to build it socialist values now, a few decades from the major class distinction that they have today will have decreased significantly.
I don't disagree with you, and in an ideal world I'd say that would happen now. But the ideological landscape of this country is substantially different than that of Northern Europe, and thus the proposed "foot in the door" would already be seen as "Big Brother" coming to take away people's freedoms. I believe we first need to work on improving our overall quality of education, and with that will come an increased willingness to critically think about how other countries have solved (or at least are working towards solving) many of society's biggest problems.
It took time in Northern Europe, it will probably take far longer here.
You are probably right. But to even if he had raised those questions you said he should to improve his case, the debate starting with me saying I am a democratic socialist - he opposes that! I am debating that a socialist political system is better, so even if he had raised those questions you mentioned, technically they wouldn't have been relevant in this debate, because they wouldn't have proven that a capitalist political system is better, rather that there are some unanswered question when dealing with America on its way to become a welfare state.
Oh, there's your mistake. With FromWithin, you will always be one individual arguing with (and about) another. For some reason he doesn't debate ideology and concepts; believe me, I have tried.
To him, you are a foreign Socialist (note: Big S socialist, like old-school "Red Scare" socialist) trying to tell Americans how to think.
Not that any of that it is a reasonable take on it, mind you, but that's simply how he converses here.
All the way about the College part. The rest of its decent too but I will be going to college in five years and due to its cost of $50K-$250K in America... Not exactly looking forward to that...
Our conversations are about to come to an end. To claim that killing a living unborn life is someone's right, and compare it to college right's etc. lacks the humanity or intelligence to continue this debate.
Yes, we know all too well what happens when school's are controlled by Government. Our pubic schools are failing our children while private schools show the best grades and results.
To claim that killing a living unborn life is someone's right, and compare it to college right's etc. lacks the humanity or intelligence to continue this debate.
Oh I didn't compare - you are the one who whined about me telling you what an a rights are, and I pointed out that you too are in fact telling me what a danish rights are.
Our conversations are about to come to an end.
Yes, it is always modest of the loser of the debate to simply end it.
Our pubic schools are failing our children while private schools show the best grades and results.
That's because the government doesn't support public schools enough to obtain as good results as private schools that are funded by billionaires. If the government would invest more in its schools, you would of course see better results.
but this easy path for some often results in the suffering of others, as illustrated by capkonkid's story. seeing as our moral values reside in altruism we shouldn't be allowing this
I believe you have taken an incorrect inference from my post. I did not say anything against anyone on a different economic strata than myself. I DID comment on individuals who do not make responsible choices in their lives.
If you want to rebutt what I actually DID say, please proceed.
There exists a powerful and widespread inclination in the hearts of men to seek the easy path to their continued comfort and well being.
Your initial comment, made in response to a hypothetical situation meant to be reflective of the macro economic system we use at a national level.
If your comment was meant to refer to some small subset of individuals, you should clarify that. If not, it comes across as you saying people are poor because they are taking the "easy" path and instead were irresponsible, which is a gross oversimplification and generalization of those lower than you socioeconomically speaking.
It always amazes me why Sociaists only look at the few good things that would come from taxing everyone to death. They never look at all the damage it does to the hard working tax payers and the disincentive to work hard and create jobs.
Your hypothetical tear jerker (not) will be played out by the millions for all the middle class families who would now be saddled with huge tax increases, huge healthcare premiums, and no longer being able to afford a better life for their family. Socialists want everyone to living a boring subsistence no matter your work effort put forth.
There is no longer that carrot at the end of the string for all the hard work and risks you took to strive for the good life.
The result? A much slower economy because the job creators have no incentive to create businesses just to see their money redistributed to people quite often living very irresponsible lives. In socialism there is no separating the hard workers from the lazy dead beats.
It is one big collective where a corrupt Government will decide how to spend your hard earned money. What kind of people would want this system.
I will tell you what kind of people want it. The lazy dead beats who refuse to do the hard work it takes to get ahead. They are jealous people who want other's money.
Obamacre is a perfect example of socialism. It taxes the moddle class to death to provide subsidies for lower income people. Now the people who were once able to afford a better life for their family are straddled with huge healthcare premiums and deductibles. Yeh, you help a few lower income people who would have already gotten welfare, while hurting millions of middle class families.
Try for once in your life looking at the middle class families who will have to fund your little hypothetical family.
It always amazes me why Sociaists only look at the few good things that would come from taxing everyone to death. They never look at all the damage it does to the hard working tax payers and the disincentive to work hard and create jobs.
I don't support taxing anyone to death. I don't support income tax.
I support a normal flat tax. But me being a centrist would still want some socialist and capitalist policies.
Your hypothetical tear jerker (not)
I did not mean it as a tear jerker, but rather a insight of what happens in first world countries quite often. In fact, more often than you think.
will be played out by the millions for all the middle class families who would now be saddled with huge tax increases, huge healthcare premiums, and no longer being able to afford a better life for their family.
(Sarcasm time with TheCapConKid) Oh yes it will be so huge of tax increases. Middle income will starve to death due to a few extra dollars being shelled out to keep a family from dying.
Socialists want everyone to living a boring subsistence no matter your work effort put forth.
Once again look to Socialist Scandinavia! Their wealth and splendor!
Then look to Capitalist Africa! Their poverty and many deaths!
There is no longer that carrot at the end of the string for all the hard work and risks you took to strive for the good life.
But those risks for your "hard work" can often lead to major poverty.
The result? A much slower economy because the job creators have no incentive to create businesses just to see their money redistributed to people quite often living very irresponsible lives. In socialism there is no separating the hard workers from the lazy dead beats.
But what about the people who are responsible but are still in poverty! You never bring up those people!
It is one big collective where a corrupt Government will decide how to spend your hard earned money. What kind of people would want this system.
People like me who need it to be able to go to college, to fill out my dream as a middle school history teacher!
I will tell you what kind of people want it. The lazy dead beats who refuse to do the hard work it takes to get ahead. They are jealous people who want other's money.
Not everyone who relies on socialist policies are "lazy dead beats who refuse to do the hard work it takes to get ahead"
Obamacre is a perfect example of socialism. It taxes the moddle class to death to provide subsidies for lower income people. Now the people who were once able to afford a better life for their family are straddled with huge healthcare premiums and deductibles. Yeh, you help a few lower income people who would have already gotten welfare, while hurting millions of middle class families.
Typically there are more low income people or poor people than middle income.
Try for once in your life looking at the middle class families who will have to fund your little hypothetical family.
I have before, for 12 years but then I made a realization. There are people who are slaving away in factories, farms, etc. For minimum wage and will never go up in life because they physically can't!
You just said it all and proved my point when I said people are jealous of those who are successful and want what they worked for. Then I asked what kind of people would want this type of socialistic system? My answer was people who want free stuff without working for it.
You said.... "People like me who need it to be able to go to college, to fill out my dream as a middle school history teacher!"
You just said it all. You believe YOU are entitled to other's money. You believe YOUR dreams should come at the expense of others who have THEIR OWN DREAMS!
That sums up this new age America very well. Democrats have done a wonderful job of creating the welfare mentality where people demand that others support them.
It's great you have wonderful dreams of College and becoming a teacher. When you achieve those drems through hard work, it will be all the more fulfilling. I nor my family could afford College when I graduated high school. It never once entered my mind how others should pay for me to go to school. So what did i do? I got a job in a factory on the nightshift, worked hard, saved my money while still living home, bought a small home when I got married. I took some part time College courses in the evenings after getting on the day shift, got a promotion and my dreams were becoming reality. We live in this microwave society where people like yourself want it all NOW!
Be patient, work hard, live responsibly and someday you will have your dreams. Will your parents let you live home for a few years while you work and save? If so, you will be able to save most of your paycheck. That is if you do not choose to party, buy expensive cars, take drugs, get girls pregnant, etc. etc. etc.
Good luck with your dreams, you seem smart enough to acheive them without my money.
You just said it all and proved my point when I said people are jealous of those who are successful and want what they worked for. Then I asked what kind of people would want this type of socialistic system? My answer was people who want free stuff without working for it.
Why don't you ever acknowledge that there are people like I displayed in my story above?
You said.... "People like me who need it to be able to go to college, to fill out my dream as a middle school history teacher!"
Yes, I did say that.
You just said it all. You believe YOU are entitled to other's money. You believe YOUR dreams should come at the expense of others who have THEIR OWN DREAMS!
I believe that taxes should redistribute money to those who need it more. Because of my birth into a poor family (Not that I would choose any other family over them) it will take me forever to be able to get a college education. But with some socialism policies, not only will others and I be able to get a proper education, but also I would be able to live a better life. Why wouldn't you shell out a few hundred a year to keep others alive? You know what was before big countries existed? You know what it was like beforehand? When nations where the size of a small town? In those places people worked to keep others alive. I believe in that form of work. The oldest form, where we work together to make our nation a better place.
That sums up this new age America very well. Democrats have done a wonderful job of creating the welfare mentality where people demand that others support them.
Democrats and Socialists are two totally different parties.
It's great you have wonderful dreams of College and becoming a teacher. When you achieve those drems through hard work, it will be all the more fulfilling. I nor my family could afford College when I graduated high school. It never once entered my mind how others should pay for me to go to school. So what did i do? I got a job in a factory on the nightshift, worked hard, saved my money while still living home, bought a small home when I got married.
Ah yes, you said this. Just what I was waiting for to tell you. Recently the factories in my local area required people to have a college education (for whatever reason) and those who didn't have a college education were taken less seriously.
I took some part time College courses in the evenings after getting on the day shift, got a promotion and my dreams were becoming reality. We live in this microwave society where people like yourself want it all NOW!
In Socialism they don't require all the money in the world now. They require small bits of money to go to the poor to help keep food on the table. And free education so we have an educated society.
Be patient, work hard, live responsibly and someday you will have your dreams.
Not in our coming society will this work. It would have worked out for you because your factory didn't require college education. My local factory does require an education (I forget what for...) and there isn't much else to work. We have a McDonalds three or four miles away but that's never going to get me anywhere.
Will your parents let you live home for a few years while you work and save? If so, you will be able to save most of your paycheck. That is if you do not choose to party, buy expensive cars, take drugs, get girls pregnant, etc. etc. etc.
1. Yes I will be allowed to stay for a few years extra.
2. I'm still a more conservative sided centrist.
Good luck with your dreams, you seem smart enough to acheive them without my money.
Maybe you missed it. After Obamacare was passed, the middle class healthcare premiums and deuctibles SKYROCKETED and if you do not want to pay for the huge cost, or can barely pay your bills, you are taxed a large fee for not signing up.
Maybe you missed it in other socialist nations where some people are taxed 75% of their earnings.
I have vacationed in Canada, and everytime I go, it amazes me how many taxes they have on hotels, restaurants, etc. It is VERY EXPENSIVE to live there.
Socialism taxes people to death and does what it was intended to do, bring everyone down to more equal levels regardless of work effort, personal responsibility, etc.
Socialist believe everyone shoud have the same quality of life no matter what choices they make.
Conservatives understand that the merit system is the only system that will bring out the best in a people. Conservatives understand as with raising our children, the consequences to bad behavior is what teaches valuable lessons in life. Accountability for one's choices in life brings out the best in people.
There must be some pain in life to motivate the responsible choices we all need to make. The pain of low income motivates the hard work it takes to acheive a better life. No one is starving to death in this nation and every person can find a shelter to sleep under if they want one.
Have you ever noticed the lenght of time so many people will stay on unemployment, if the Government keeps giving it to them? Many will gladly take the easy life over working for as long as possilbe. THAT IS HUMAN NATURE!
Socialism is a form of unemployment. If someone will keep giving you free stuff without having to work for it, why would they work? Why would they work hard to succede when after all the hard work, their income is redistributed to bring them right back down to those who refuse to work hard, right back down to the collective.
Your little utopia will never exist. Your world where the hard working responsible people gladly give up most of their hard earned money to those who do not work hard, just for the sake of fairness? THAT IS NOT FAIR!
Working hard SHOULD be rewarded. That is what gives the incentive to work hard and create jobs. The people on the Left who CONSTANTLY bring up the one percenters, are liars because soiclaism also taxes the middle class to death. They talked about taxing the 1% in this nation and then we found out that those making $250,000 would also pay higher taxes..... LIARS!
You are correct when you say I do not fully understand your version of Socialism in your nation. LIKEWISE you do not have a clue of our form of Capitalism in America. You might isten to our liberal biased media and those on the Left who are closet Socialists, but you have no clue of the benefits of Capitalism in this nation and the benefits the world derives from our capitalism.
You said..... "Those who have can make more, and those who don't have are stuck in the situation they are in for the rest of their lives. So no, capitalism does not bring out the best in people, actually you are throwing away talent that could have become something, but didn't get the chance because they had no way of achieving the knowledge needed to make something out of their talent."
That could not be further from the truth. I am the person you say had no chance to get ahead. I was not stuck in my situation for the rest of my life! My family was not wealthy when it came to having nice homes and nice things, but rich in Love for their children. They taught us a work ethic and to know that with hard work, and responsible living, we would get ahead and have good lives. They were right!
This is what America's capitalism was all about but is now losing to this progressive no fault mindset of how everyone is owed a living from others. The higher taxes and regulations are suffocating this once thriving economy. Since the most liberal President in our history was elected seven years ago, we have yet to have good GDP growth as in the past.
People from around the world came to America in droves because they knew with our freedoms and Capitalism, ANYONE could get ahead and have a better future. It is still the same today with many people trying to come to America to get a taste of freedom and smaller less intrusive Government.
How many immigrants flock to your nation's?
I'm still wondering how much your nation spends on your military to help protect the world from the spread of evil. It's nice being able to let America do all your dirty work and spend your own money on yourselves.
