CreateDebate


Debate Info

33
15
Neither Left or Right
Debate Score:48
Arguments:42
Total Votes:48
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Neither (23)
 
 Left or Right (15)

Debate Creator

Atrag(5445) pic



Neither Left nor Right

This site seems like a circus with left and (more so) right wingers spewing rhetoric from their respective parties. I personally dont affiliate myself with any political party. Is there anyone else here like that?

Neither

Side Score: 33
VS.

Left or Right

Side Score: 15
4 points

That's what I call a moderate independent, and I'm one of them. But I'll warn you (as you probably already know) that the right wingers on this site will define everyone who is not as far right as they are as liberals or left. So you will find yourself attacking conservative positions and defending more liberal positions even though you personally are not a liberal, simply because that's the only paradigm those particular conservatives understand.

Side: Neither
2 points

I voted Labour in June's General Election, but I may have voted Conservative if I'd liked their policies and Theresa May had struck me as actually being competent at her job. As it was, I preferred to vote May out and have another run with some new policies and ways of thinking. I didn't vote Labour because I was left-wing.

While I basically support everyone to have the same rights and freedoms, I don't shout about it from the rooftops and people who do that tend to give me the impression that they want to know how great and wonderful a citizen they are, rather than actually caring about the issues.

Although I'm bisexual, I'm not really a fan of the LGBT community as a group as the vocal people in that group strike me as being more aggressive than progressive. Similarly, I'm not really a fan of the modern day feminist community.

I have some more right-wing attitudes to education, child discipline and immigration. I don't agree with Trump, who is further right than I am, but I don't see the issue with having slower, more controlled immigration so public services can cope better with the population growth and requirement for people to understand more languages.

I don't see the issue with slapping a child on the wrist (in school or the home) as long as you aren't beating them or touching them inappropriately.

I am in favour of gun control, but most people in the UK support gun control and it's not particularly tied to a political party.

I oppose fox hunting, as most left- and right-wingers do.

I believe in people working hard to earn an appropriate place in society, and I believe that businesses are a good thing for the economy (but I also believe that they should not be allowed to grow more powerful than governments, and they should be paying, not dodging tax).

I strongly dislike being put into the left-wing box. I might lean slightly more left with my opinions than I do right, but I have more in common with someone slightly on the right than I do an extremist on the left.

Side: Neither
2 points

Totally. No point labeling myself if I don't agree with 100% of any party's ideas. I don't want people to assume my opinions.

Side: Neither
2 points

If something makes sense to me, it makes sense to me. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. Why should it matter if this one particular issue is considered a "Right idea" or a "Left idea". Should that change my mind on whatever the issue is?

If someone is for banning guns, why should it just be expected of them to support abortion? What if someone supports socialism but opposes gay rights? The list goes on.

A lot of people like to think in terms of "Us" and "Them" and "Anyone who isn't one of us is the enemy" which is dangerously naive.

There's about as many unique combination of opinions as there are people involved, yet some act like there's only two. Just tackle each issue individually as you see it. There's no point in labeling something "Right" or "Left".

Same principles also applies when it comes to identity politics.

Side: Neither
1 point

Left and right are rubber words that can be twisted up to various things depending on the speakers intention. If your primary political concern is public freedom, then neither the left nor the right are for you. Though it is supposed to be their main ideal, Libertarians aren't consistent from one individual to the next. One is a pothead hippy and the next is a gun loving racist; but somehow both are Libertarian. Neither are like me.

If one must insist on the left/right circular spectrum, I lean right though I'm not religious.

Side: Neither
outlaw60(15500) Clarified Banned
1 point

WOW i didn't gun lovers were racist ! Where might you got that information ?

Side: Neither
Amarel(4987) Clarified
1 point

It's not the case that gun lovers are necessarily racist. Nor is it the case that hippies are necessarily potheads. But when put together in the combinations I choose, an image of a certain kind of people is presented. These stereotypes are very different, but both libertarian.

Side: Neither
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Learn to read, moron. "one individual to the next". Amarel was talking about a single gun owner being racist.

Side: Left or Right
1 point

I prefer my ideas to serve me, rather than the other way around. Ideology is the obviation of autonomy and retreat into conformity. My perspective and interests are particular to me; why would I subsume them under anything else? Moreover, I'm preferential to logic and reason and subscribing to any homogenized, abstract concept riddled with inconsistencies just isn't in line with that.

Side: Neither
xljackson(260) Disputed
1 point

The only problem with your cute little story is what if I said you were crazy?

Is there anything I could do to prove it to you?

What would it need to be?

Is it a riddle just because you don't understand?

Side: Left or Right
Jace(4706) Disputed
1 point

If you mean prove with a certainty then no, there isn't anything you could do to prove it to me because we can't know anything that way. I could be persuaded to give the proposition credence, though, if you appealed to the values I've professed.

Nothing you've asked or implied through asking is a problem for my position.

Side: Neither
1 point

I find it's best to not identify with either tribe. One should never make up their mind before hearing all the facts they can from different sources. Many people will default to defending their political tribe's position even though if they thought about it they would actually disagree with their tribe on that given issue.

This is the whole reason that "Classical Liberalism" is having a re-surge in centrist circles and in my estimation we will soon see a centrist party emerge in the U.K. and/or U.S.

Side: Neither
1 point

My fairly firm believe is that the world is not just black and white. Unfortunately with some people that's all they want to see, maybe because it simplifies things for them, I'm not sure. I think both the left and the right have some good ideas and some bad ideas but neither one will ever have all of the answers until they start seeing some of the grays. It's fairly frustrating to be one of the people standing in the middle of the two watching all the mud flinging and wondering if the hardcore Lefties and Righties will ever get their heads out of their own behinds.

Side: Neither

Everyone leans either more to the right or to the left. People who claim neither side are doing so out of fear of having to defend a position or stand up for what they believe in. You can never get anything done politically from the middle.

Side: Left or Right
Atrag(5445) Disputed
3 points

I am atheist, believe in free market, strong rule of law, multiculturalism, elite pluralism, scientific realism, gay rights, pro life, high military spending, welfarism, high taxation in general. I can argue my position on all these issues but I guess you would identify me as right on some and left on others.

Choosing right or left is for people like you that need comfort in belonging to a group that can give them opinions on areas they havent bothered to look into properly - "Oh I don't know what xxx is, let me turn on Fox news to tell me what a right winger like me should think!"

Side: Neither
Jace(4706) Disputed
1 point

Rather the other way around. Claiming a generic ideological camp is an expedient way to avoid having to form one's own beliefs, much less stand for them.

Side: Neither
Grenache(6103) Disputed
1 point

Leaning one way or the other doesn't make you left or right, it makes you honest and human. And as for never getting anything done from the middle, the very structure of our government, with two houses and balances of power built in, was designed to help keep power balanced somewhere in the middle.

The fact that any legislation of any kind has ever existed which is not extremely conservative or extremely liberaly disproves your claim nothing gets done from the middle. Indeed, you fear the legitimacy of the middle because it's the only political group which can do you in.

Side: Neither
1 point

Hello A:

I'm one or the other.. For sure, I'm NOT in the wishy washy middle. I'm not good at nuance so in MY world, things are black or white..

excon

Side: Left or Right
xljackson(260) Disputed
2 points

Excon because you aren't good at coping with a scenario you subscribe to whatever logic is comforting?

If ignorance is bliss why not just get a lobotomy?

Doesn't that question go against your black and white logic?

Side: Neither
excon(12962) Disputed
1 point

Hello x:

I'm so sorry my post upset you.. You DID confirm my black and white thinking, though.. You're an ass, and I'm not..

excon

Side: Left or Right
1 point

I used to be an independent, but, since Gingrich and Armey came up with their polarizing "Contract with America" I have had to lean farther to the left for some balance. I'd like to go back to independent, but then, there's Trump! (sigh) The idiot leaves me no choice.

Side: Left or Right
LeonWilliams(3) Disputed
1 point

I'm just curious. What are your qualifications for "leaning" one way or another? Or what is reason enough for you to "leave" side?

Do you have to agree with everyone on a particular side in order to "join" them? If you disagree with even one person on a side, is that enough to "leave" that side? It seems like you're unnecessarily putting yourself in a difficult position. If you're waiting until you agree with everyone on a side, that's never going to happen, but I take it you do have a criteria of some kind, hence the "I would but I can't because Trump" mentality.

Oh yeah, that's another thing. How is it that you being independent is dependent on what Trump or someone else is doing?

If you're voted for a Republican in the past, it doesn't mean you have to swear by Trump or even like him. If you've voted for a Democrat, it doesn't mean you have to swear by Obama. And you can just correct anyone who says otherwise.

But anyway, I'm just wondering. Maybe you never thought about it or something.

Side: Neither
1 point

LW:

I am quite sure you are to young to know what Republicans were like BEFORE (1) Reagan and (2) The "Contract with America". I voted for Ike, I voted for Nixon (mistake). I liked Reagan, but not his policies OR the idea that HE defeated the U.S.S.R. He was in the right place at the right time. I can not, under ANY circumstances vote for a Republican the way they are today. McCain is one of the few "Republicans" left. He is still willing to negotiate (sometimes). Reagan, the Bush's were "my" President. Trump is not, and never will be because he is about as un-American as they come. Dubya lost me when he botched Tora Bora and started a war with Iraq! I cannot be an Independent until the old GOP shows up again ... or another party.

Yeah, I've given a lot of thought to what I said.

Side: Left or Right
LeonWilliams(3) Disputed
1 point

Hm, I see. Maybe we're talking about two different things in a sense. To me, voting for someone who considers themselves a Republican/Democrat/Right/Left/etc., and me calling myself those things are completely separate issues, and I think maybe that's we're going in two different directions (but perhaps you don't see it that way). Me personally, I pledge no allegiance to one team or another and I don't think anyone should (and that's basically my argument, and that's what I had understood the topic to be about -- not the parties of the people I vote for, but rather what I consider myself). I know what principles I stand for, and if someone comes along and also stands for those principles and I feel he deserves my vote, he'll get it. Even if he happened to make up his own party or be of no party, it makes no difference to me.

As a side issue, however, I would be curious to know what your definition of "American" is (as in, "Un-American" meaning "Someone or something that does not adhere to [insert your definition here]). I mean... this isn't about Trump one way or the other, but I'll use him as an example since you brought him up. He's a U.S. citizen... He's the U.S. President... He seems pretty American to me. Whether I agree with him on certain things is neither here nor there, but "American" he fits the bill just fine.

Side: Neither