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Debate Info

10
17
Yes, I support the idea No, I do not support it
Debate Score:27
Arguments:16
Total Votes:34
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 Yes, I support the idea (3)
 
 No, I do not support it (6)

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Coldfire(1014) pic



New Method of Governance

 

“Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness.” - Michael Scriven & Richard Paul, presented at the 8th Annual International Conference on Critical Thinking and Education Reform, Summer 1987. link: http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-critical-thinking/766

 

 

 

Would you support the idea of a government which utilized a computer based system for problem solving operations using a set of algorithms with a strong presence of critical thinking aspects as presented in the above excerpt and a team of elected experts (not one president) which could reflect on this and have fully public meetings and deliberations to come to a sound rationale regarding various legislation and to gather feedback from public forum?

 

By experts I mean sociologists, physicists, engineers, economists, professors and theoreticists in various areas etc.

 

By public forum I refer to a real-time internet community of social network/internet forums which can be communicated to the team of elected via the critical thinking computer module even while they deliberate and discus

Yes, I support the idea

Side Score: 10
VS.

No, I do not support it

Side Score: 17
4 points

Mostly. I'm not convinced that this team of experts should get voted on by the public though. In any other job, you would earn your promotions through experience, skill and training.

I realize there are problems with meritocracies, but I think a system that is designed to minimize those problems would be better than popularity contests.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
Coldfire(1014) Clarified
3 points

I know what you mean here and I agree with you.

It would be hard to convince the population to give up their ability to choose representatives… even considering they really don’t have as much of an effect as they think they do; they are blissfully unaware that it’s all an illusion.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
3 points

I originally wanted to say no to this, but once you add in the fact that the leading group would be composed of these different people in varying fields of work, it becomes interesting. These different fields are all necessary and some politicians no nothing about some of them.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
Coldfire(1014) Clarified
3 points

I originally wanted to say no to this

What was it that originally made you oppose it and why?

Maybe I can explain it a little better or offer a better solution

Side: Yes, I support the idea
wdkwwednkjwe(4) Disputed Banned
1 point

Your a real freaking idiot aren't you?

Side: No, I do not support it
1 point

No you explained it well, I just didn't like the idea of a computer system running things, but like I said, I started to really think about it.

Nice debate :)

Side: Yes, I support the idea
3 points

Would you support the idea of a government which utilized a computer based system for problem solving operations using a set of algorithms with a strong presence of critical thinking aspects as presented in the above excerpt and a team of elected experts (not one president) which could reflect on this and have fully public meetings and deliberations to come to a sound rationale regarding various legislation and to gather feedback from public forum?

By experts I mean sociologists, physicists, engineers, economists, professors and theoreticists in various areas etc.

I have not seen any proof that such a system would fare better than our current one, so I cannot support it.

Some important details are being left out.

To what extent is this going to be applied to our governance? If this were implemented in the US, would it stop at our federal government, or would each individual state/municipality have this system?

Since you mentioned that this would replace having one elected president, would this simply replace the function of our executive branch?

Which "problems" in particular would this computer program be solving that current computer data generating engines wouldn't?

By public forum I refer to a real-time internet community of social network/internet forums which can be communicated to the team of elected via the critical thinking computer module even while they deliberate and discuss

Would there be a section for discussion on each facet of public policy? Would this computer interpret the feedback and send a synopsis of the views expressed on the forum to these experts?

Side: No, I do not support it
Coldfire(1014) Clarified
3 points

I have not seen any proof that such a system would fare better than our current one, so I cannot support it

You’re likely not going to find any; it’s just an idea at this point.

Some important details are being left out.

I do apologize, if you have any questions or even recommendations I would be happy to discuss it with you. I don’t have it all completely hashed out yet and I welcome your input and critique.

To what extent is this going to be applied to our governance? If this were implemented in the US, would it stop at our federal government, or would each individual state/municipality have this system?

I proposed the idea regarding the federal government but I suppose it could serve as a blueprint for just about any size of administration, even business conferences or town hall meetings.

Since you mentioned that this would replace having one elected president, would this simply replace the function of our executive branch?

Executive and legislative branch. But I still acknowledge the benefit of having representatives elected by the people as well as a judicial system… I just abhor the way they get elected a lot of times, I strongly believe that a nation of critical thinkers would be less inclined to elect representatives based on rhetoric and instead base their decisions on practical reasons.

Which "problems" in particular would this computer program be solving that current computer data generating engines wouldn't?

Computer tech is continually growing; it’s not so much about what this one would do that the current models don’t. Current models will be updated and/or replaced eventually as new tech is developed.

To my knowledge, a computer module with a code reflecting critical thinking attributes is not used by our administration the way that I proposed. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the current computers, just that they’re not actualized for the potential benefit they can serve in reducing the amount of control and corruption select individuals have over the country.

Would there be a section for discussion on each facet of public policy?

Yes. I imagine a forum that separates like-topics into groups for discussion, accessible at any time of the day. And maybe a separate forum for the actual real-time discussion events for people to observe and comment.

Would this computer interpret the feedback and send a synopsis of the views expressed on the forum to these experts?

Yes, that is exactly what I imagine. The computer module could facilitate in the mention of particular issues to be addressed and during the deliberation it could serve as a visual reference with scientific data and graphics. Throughout the meetings, it could provide feedback from the public based on the frequency of particular issues being addressed and their relevance.

I understand that there are a number of experts in various fields included within government meetings, as well as relevant reporting and data collection being done, but I think it would be more beneficial to bring the computer, the experts and the public out from the back burner and become more of a arbitrator or focal point during discussions within the administration.

To give you an example, I picture in my head a large circular table with a large hole in the middle containing a concave computer which generates an interface of various holographic projections for reference. Whoever is speaking could be speaking to the team via projection or, if more beneficial, a detailed graphic serving as a visual aid could be generated to offer people better understanding to what the speaker is proposing. Any questions or concerns that the team or observing public has, any calculations or data analysis that needs attention could be simplified and illustrated via the computer. Another person could then go off the original idea that was proposed and build upon it, or s/he could propose a completely different solution; the computer can calculate each idea's effectiveness to the given problem or even suggest more efficient solutions based on the input it receives all the while pointing out flawed reasoning and logical fallicies should they occur.

I'm not trying to imply that we need to implement this change ASAP, as I mentioned to another commenter:

"What I’m more concerned with is if people would accept this idea on the following merits:

1. The use of a ‘critical thinking’ computer module helping to reduce the amount of human error, bias, corruption and irrational reasoning.

2. Recognition of the fields that can actually serve as a benefit to a society as opposed to a system run by lawyers and bankers.

3. Encouragement of a system that places value in critical thought instead of persuasive propaganda for direction.

4. Allow for an open observation, participation and evaluation of government meetings by the public."

You bring up a lot of great questions. This is obviously still an abstract concept, but please continue to bring up these relevant points.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
Stickers(1037) Clarified
3 points

To my knowledge, a computer module with a code reflecting critical thinking attributes is not used by our administration the way that I proposed. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the current computers, just that they’re not actualized for the potential benefit they can serve in reducing the amount of control and corruption select individuals have over the country.

Yes, at the moment we rely on individuals (more often than not non-experts) to make pass policies based on their views of whatever computing data gets thrown at them.

Yes. I imagine a forum that separates like-topics into groups for discussion, accessible at any time of the day. And maybe a separate forum for the actual real-time discussion events for people to observe and comment.

My immediate impression is that we could probably run this by stringing together a few already existing (and prominent) political forums, probably by using a non profit organization to simply buy them all out, you get a solid baseline of users right there, and the interaction between forums would improve (which reduces group-think).

This machine should also have to be able to weigh out cognitive biases in arguments. Although bias doesn't invalidate the arguments, it affects how others perceive it.

The rest (what I didn't quotes) actually clarifies it for me, so now I can say with confidence that I support the plan, in particular the 4 tenets. Although, of course this all starts will proper education on formal logic, cognitive biases, and of course the logical fallacies. Since all of these (formal logic in particular) require a very, very firm grasp on the language that it is taught in, we'd have to leave it to high schoolers.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
3 points

_We should be a Theocracy and not run by Your system.

Side: No, I do not support it
2 points

I do like the idea, but I am against the institution of government. I'd rather have a small and minimally powerful government than this complex system. It may work well, but I am sure that taxation, moral law, business ventures, and other things shall still be regulated by this institution of government.

Side: No, I do not support it
Coldfire(1014) Clarified
3 points

I do like the idea, but I am against the institution of government.

I am as well. But this is mainly because I detest the systems that have been tried or are currently in effect.

At its core I do not have a problem with the idea of a community of people gathering together in discussion and arriving at some sort of consensus. I do not consider government an inherently bad thing just because so many systems have failed to represent the people and succumbed to corruption, I consider that failure a fault and offer a potential solution.

I would not claim that the average person needs governance in order to make sure they do what’s “right.” But I do acknowledge the overall benefit and strength of a people united in a cause.

I'd rather have a small and minimally powerful government than this complex system.

The system proposed doesn’t really present a large size or complexity, it can work at a micro level; like cities or counties if you prefer.

What I’m more concerned with is if people would accept this idea on the following merits:

1. The use of a ‘critical thinking’ computer module helping to reduce the amount of human error, bias, corruption and irrational reasoning.

2. Recognition of the fields that can actually serve as a benefit to a society as opposed to a system run by lawyers and bankers.

3. Encouragement of a system that places value in critical thought instead of persuasive propaganda for direction.

4. Allow for an open observation, participation and evaluation of government meetings by the public.

I realize these should have been more explicit in the description, but theres a limited amount of space.

It may work well, but I am sure that taxation, moral law, business ventures, and other things shall still be regulated by this institution of government.

Only in as much as they should.

Personally, I think individuals should have the right to opt out of any affiliation or contribution to a community. This, of course, would bring with it the exclusion from various community based benefits. i.e. you can opt out of paying taxes, but that means you forfeit your right to benefit from the taxes generated by the community (public school, public roads, law enforcement, etc.) I’d rather not debate this point here however, perhaps another time.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
Paradox44(736) Clarified
3 points

I am as well. But this is mainly because I detest the systems that have been tried or are currently in effect.

Completely agree with this here.

At its core I do not have a problem with the idea of a community of people gathering together in discussion and arriving at some sort of consensus. I do not consider government an inherently bad thing just because so many systems have failed to represent the people and succumbed to corruption, I consider that failure a fault and offer a potential solution.

I would not claim that the average person needs governance in order to make sure they do what’s “right.” But I do acknowledge the overall benefit and strength of a people united in a cause.

I see. So this system will be composed of different varieties of knowledge to come to a consensus about a particular problem or need that may arise in the nation? I may actually favor that.

1. The use of a ‘critical thinking’ computer module helping to reduce the amount of human error, bias, corruption and irrational reasoning.

I would actually favor this instead. I can easily see this applied in the making of bills and the judicial system.

2. Recognition of the fields that can actually serve as a benefit to a society as opposed to a system run by lawyers and bankers.

Again, I can see this being quite effective. Bankers and Lawyers are sometimes subject to corruption, greed, and privatized scandals, etc.

3. Encouragement of a system that places value in critical thought instead of persuasive propaganda for direction.

Critical thinking is what this country needs. I feel as if the system will actually educate the public, thus promoting more political compliance and participation. People will understand the law and it's applicability on their lives.

4. Allow for an open observation, participation and evaluation of government meetings by the public.

That favors my beliefs even more since the power is practically in the hands of the populace. I may have overlooked this system when I first commented.

Personally, I think individuals should have the right to opt out of any affiliation or contribution to a community. This, of course, would bring with it the exclusion from various community based benefits. i.e. you can opt out of paying taxes, but that means you forfeit your right to benefit from the taxes generated by the community (public school, public roads, law enforcement, etc.) I’d rather not debate this point here however, perhaps another time.

I do see your point here. I like it, but do not fully agree. Perhaps create a debate for it and we can discuss this matter further. I'm curious to see your responses.

Side: Yes, I support the idea
Homophobia(9) Banned
2 points

Only homosexuals should be able to govern society. Homophobia runs rampant with the straights.

Side: No, I do not support it