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Debate Score:38
Arguments:71
Total Votes:38
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 No moral difference. (36)

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Wolfgang666(172) pic



No moral difference.

Whether you are a Christian, Muslim or a Jew, there is no moral difference. The God of the old testament is the main character of all three religions. The God of the old testament is one of the most evil characters in all fiction. If you truly used the moral teachings of their books, you would be a criminal in every country known to man. It would make you a racist, misogynistic, masochistic, sycophantic, homophobic, homicidal, infanticidal, genocidal, sadistic, child molesting, rapist. There is nothing good that can come from living your life by this dogma. All the problems that Christians have with Islam comes from the same book that they themselves follow.

The fact that there are good Christians and good Muslims is only evidence that there are good people in the world.

Religion is an insult to human dignity.
Without it you would still have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. But to get good people to do bad things, that takes religion.

Everyone is more moral than the God of the Bible, Quran, and Torah.
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2 points

If you truly used the moral teachings of their books

According to your interpretation of the moral teachings of their books. It is the variation in interpretation, which leads to differences of action, that creates the moral difference between these groups, despite their common god.

But to get good people to do bad things, that takes religion

Or ideology. Or cult of personality. Or ignorance. Or misinformation...

Wolfgang666(172) Clarified
2 points

I'm really getting tired of the cop out of saying the word "interpretation." All that means in religion is that there are parts you don't listen to in the Bible and some you do. If I were to say " if a man lieth with another man as he would lieth with a woman, they have both committed an abomination in the eyes of the lord, and the punishment is death" how would you wiggle out of thinking that that means capital punishment for being gay.

What if I said" Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." What kind of mental gymnastics are you going to do to say that this verse doesn't say that not only can you keep slaves but also you can beat them as harshly as you want as long as they don't die from it.

Amarel(2807) Disputed
2 points

When punishment (for crimes against god) is for god, as vengeance is, then capital punishment isn’t the Christian thing to do. When slavery is not part of our culture, rules concerning slavery are obviously moot. I’m not a Christian and that took very little effort.

It doesn’t matter if there are mental gymnastics or biblical omissions. What matters is how people of a given faith manifest their faith outwardly. That’s all that should matter to those outside a given faith. Given the age of religious texts, it makes no sense for an outsider to demand that all the outdated edicts be strictly followed and then claim that strictly following all the edicts makes all religion equally immoral.

If it is true that interpretation is just another word for ignoring things, then the moral standing of one religion to another depends on how many evil practices are adopted, not how many are written about.

TzarPepe(797) Disputed
1 point

There will always be controversy. The proper interpretation of all scripture leads to the realization of God, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and maintaining consciousness of this.

You have to realize God before you can be God conscious. The proper interpretation of all scripture points to The Way.

There is nothing you can do to stop people from using any justification at all for evil. If it wasn't scripture or religion, it's be equal rights, freedom, independence, or even hunger.

The point is that the best possible policy is universally to keep it real. That is what God is about.

Yes, making peace with reality is morally superior to demanding that reality conform to what you think it is or should be.

Understand, I am not quoting scripture because they have authority by themselves. No, I quote these scriptures in order to reveal to you that the opinions you are expressing do not come from knowledge of the faith. You are taking scripture out of context because you don't know the context. You don't know the intent or purpose of scripture, so you have a lot of superstitious ideas. Superstitious ideas shared by unbelievers as well as professed unbelivers. This is what is throwing you off.

The mystery is in recognizing The Name in The Supreme and Ultimate Reality!

Why it is written in scripture,

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Why is it written in scripture,

"the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

Really though, the reason why you have the freedom to be happy has a great deal to do with people who loved God.

You do realize that Christian scripture claims that it was the religious authorities calling for Jesus Christ to be put to death. For what? BLASPHEMY!

You can't kill The Word of God. You can't kill The Truth. These devils all have their schemes, but no one can outwit God. Truth stands CLEARLY DISTINCT from error.

Make no mistake, God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

1 point

racist, misogynistic, masochistic, sycophantic, homophobic, homicidal, infanticidal, genocidal, sadistic, child molesting, rapist: sorry but my religion tells me no to be/do that kind of stuff

Wolfgang666(172) Clarified
1 point

You are probably one of those " only read the good parts" Christians or Muslims. The old testament condones slavery, rape, murder, child abuse, genocide, child molestation, and racism. What is the punishment for unruly children? Death! What is the punishment for being gay? Death! What is the punishment for shaving your face? Death!

You can't use Jesus to disregard the old testament because he said that he came to fulfill the law, not to change it.

TzarPepe(797) Disputed
1 point

"teach no other doctrine, neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do. Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen"

1 point

Saying there exists no moral difference between the two ignores reality. Otherwise, there would be little effective difference between America and Saudi Arabia.

Wolfgang666(172) Clarified
1 point

Your culture determines how you choose to interpret the religious text that you believe.

There are some Muslims that blow themselves up for their religion and others that say Islam is force for peace. Just like how there are Christians that devote themselves to charity and others are killing their children in Africa because they think their children are witch's.

TzarPepe(797) Disputed
1 point

Maybe there is a lot of disinformation out there about what it is all about.

Maybe you should pay more attention to what these writings engraved in stone are pointing to instead of simply plundering the tombs of dead men.

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

1 point

That was good.

You just managed to insult billions of people in one arrogant post. Take a bow.

Wolfgang666(172) Clarified
1 point

Your feelings don't matter to me. Truth does. I'm tired of hearing religious people act like their religion is more superior to any other. You are just children playing out fantasies in your head. God's are like Santa Claus for adults. Grow up and stop holding society back.

Antrim(1290) Clarified
1 point

I did not say that I necessarily disagreed with your interpretation of the superstitious hocus pocus of the various man made religions, just that the genuine beliefs of billions of people should be respected and referred to more reverently.

1 point

The One True God that these scriptures and traditions speak of is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

If you think The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is evil, you are wrong. It is your thoughts that are evil. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality was here before you, is here now, and will be here forever more. Long after you die, long after the language you speak is forgotten, long after the faintest trace of your impact on the universe is obscured in the chaos, God will be there.

Hating God? What follows naturally from this is a disputation with The Truth. Wishing things were something other than they are because reality doesn't conform to personal standards, the finger is pointed in condemnation towards all. This standard of judgement is self condemnation. What follows from hating God? The embracing of arbitrariness.

The standard is personal whim. There is no moral difference between the words you speak and the words anyone else speaks. Your words will be forgotten, but God's Word stands forever.

There is only One Right Judge, The Determiner of All, and it can be known with a surety that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.

Wolfgang666(172) Clarified
1 point

That is a pretty big statement to make. Do you have any evidence to back it up? If you say something is true but you don't have any verifiable evidence to substantiate your claim then you are just talking out of your ass.

How can I hate something I don't believe in? What you call God's word is just primitive savages speaking for their God. You are learning from people who knew less than you do. That is reverse education.

TzarPepe(797) Disputed
1 point

Definition of testament

1 a : a tangible proof or tribute

The Old Testament is a proof. The New Testament is a proof. They are both self contained works. Find God, and be conscious of God. That is discipleship. That is what it is about.

What you are doing right now is picking little bits and pieces from the proof without seeing the whole thing. While you are doing this, you are parading around like you are so high and mighty when the only thing you are doing is making yourself look ignorant to those who actually know better. You will get many cheers from others who are also ignorant.

But if you really care about the truth as I believe I heard you claim, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. The Truth is what is important.

Believe me when I make plain this mystery of God. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God, and there is no other.

1 point

Everyone is more moral than the God of the Bible, Quran, and Torah.

According to what standard? What basis do you have to make such a claim?

1 point

No moral difference.

Specific beliefs regarding human social behavior toward others (collectively) & individually are of direct relevance when considering "morality". Now, each of these books (as well as any other bit of social philosophy) advocate for differing views in respect to how Humans should lead their lives. Therefore, there will always be notable differences between such competing Philosophies both in theory and application (which may deviate from theory quite a bit)

1 point

I'm trying to look at this objectively...

All the Abrahamic religions were competing for validity of monotheism when compared against lots of pagan religions with their angry and needy gods. They needed their one god to be a bigger [email protected] than anyone else. And they also needed the masses to fall in line and obey and do what they're told. That's probably where the bully god of the old testament gets all his bite.

But by defining a bully, someone who is going to torture and kill you however it suits him, they all have a moral equivalency. So yes. Yes you are right.

There are elements of differences between each. And there are lessons of love and kindness and compassion. But by claiming the same Abrahamic religion roots they all still own the dick god described within.

1 point

Whether you are a Christian, Muslim or a Jew, there is no moral difference.

According to who?

The God of the old testament is the main character of all three religions.

You mean the trinitarian God of the Christians, Allah separate from the Christians and the Jews, and the unitarian God of the Jews?

The God of the old testament is one of the most evil characters in all fiction.

According to who?

If you truly used the moral teachings of their books, you would be a criminal in every country known to man.

Maybe if you're muslim. Where are Jews and Christians expected to kill someone simply for unbelief?

It would make you a racist, misogynistic, masochistic, sycophantic, homophobic, homicidal, infanticidal, genocidal, sadistic, child molesting, rapist. There is nothing good that can come from living your life by this dogma.

All the problems that Christians have with Islam comes from the same book that they themselves follow.

Who said the bible and the koran were the same thing?

The fact that there are good Christians and good Muslims is only evidence that there are good people in the world.

What do you mean by good people?

Religion is an insult to human dignity.

According to who?

Without it you would still have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. But to get good people to do bad things, that takes religion.

According to who?

Everyone is more moral than the God of the Bible, Quran, and Torah.

According to who?