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Debate Score:22
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 Non-Biblical sources confirm Jesus Christ of the Bible (18)

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Saintnow(3684) pic



Non-Biblical sources confirm Jesus Christ of the Bible

There is a common new teaching that Jesus Christ is not referenced historically outside of the Bible.  The videos here will take you on a tour of history showing that people who teach this "myther' stuff are lying.


https://youtu.be/zrRQqYGf4O0

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4 points

Hi Saintnow, I would like to mention the obvious for those of us who desire actual truth over faith that things are true. Your sources fail to mention pertinent information which is important to the discussion.

Cornelius Tacitus AD 56 – after 117AD He could not have been witness to the events he describes. More troublesome is the FACT that he wrote the Histories and the Annals. In 112 AD or 113 AD.

Factually speaking this means that his writing was influenced by the current events of that time "The Christian" movement. The inception of the Christian religion was around 65 to 70 AD this would have given enough exposure over 40 years to have influence yet not be of historical value.

To put this in it's proper perspective Tacitus was friends with Pliny the Younger, His dad Pliny the Elder wrote during the supposed life of Christ. What mention of the person or event of Jesus did he write? Rhetorical Nothing, is the correct answerbecause the events didn't happen and the person didn't exist.

Lucian was 2nd century nothing of historical value from 0 to 33AD.

Flavious Josephus The info in the video doesn't cover the whole story. The reason that the passages are so controversial is because from the 1400's they were known to be forgeries.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

A partial list of historians living at the time of these supposes events who are silent about the man or the events There are 120 total

Philo-Judaeus

Seneca

Pliny the Elder

Suetonius

Juvenal

Martial

Persius

Plutarch

Justus of Tiberius

Apollonius

Quintilian

Lucanus

Epictetus

Silius Italicus

Statius

Ptolemy

Hermogones

Valerius Maximus

Arrian

Petronius

Dion Pruseus

Paterculus

Appian

Theon of Smyrna

Phlegon

Pompon Mela

Quintius Curtius

Lucian

Pausanias

Valerius Flaccus

Florus Lucius

Favorinus

Phaedrus

Damis

Aulus Gellius

Columella

Dio Chrysostom

Lysias

Appion of Alexandria

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

You are being ignorant, willfully, and maybe it will help if you watch the video again and try to listen, but I doubt you have that capacity because you think you know everything.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

you buy into this modern "myth" movement, and you plainly stated there are no historical references to Jesus Christ outside the Bible and I have proven you are a fool for believing in this modern myth movement which somehow you believe people recently exposed the whole story of Jesus to be a myth when His story never stopped being told from the time He first appeared alive after He rose from the dead, and hundreds of years of torture could not suppress the story. You're a fool, Bob. Keep on fighting against God, keep on saying He is not there, keep on saying you are going out of existence in death, keep on saying you die for your own sins and Jesus did nothing for you when He died for you, keep on saying you totally reject Him as your Savior, and see who you face as your Judge.

Thank you for your input, but since you are ignoring the facts and reasoning presented in the videos, I'll be ignoring you and you said all you have to say in this debate. I should have banned you before you had a chance to pop in here, I know you will not allow reasonable discussion but will always push your distortions and insults like a typical atheist in the modern "myther" movement.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Tacitus is considered one of the greatest historians of Rome and could not have earned any respect if He was not accurately stating the events he referred to regarding Christ under Pontius Pilate. He was not a Christian, and called the story of Jesus' resurrection "pernicious superstition, suppressed for a time, which broke out again....". spreading form Judea to Rome. Tacitus refers to heresy vs confirmed accounts around 70 times in his history, and if he had not gotten his information from Roman Records, he would have inserted his usual disclaimer that the account was unverified. Tacitus did not believe everything Pliny the Younger said, and made that clear in Annuls 55. What you call "the inception of the Christian religion" began after the disciples saw Jesus alive after finding His tomb empty, and because they knew He was alive, no amount of torture and executions could suppress the "movement". The most extensive record of this "suppression" which is more commonly known as feeding the Christians to the lions for entertainment, or using them as human torches, spurred by the Jewish religious leaders who feared losing control of Judaism, was endorsed and supported by Roman procurators of Judea beginning with Pontius Pilate when the Jews coerced by threatening to report that Jesus had been allowed to call Himself a King which would be painted as a challenge to the Roman Emperor.

Pliny the Elder was not a historian. You act like he was a historian and Pliny the Younger followed in his footsteps. You are misleading because you are misled, and I doubt that you have done any research into any of this yourself because you are not interested in facts but prefer to use "gotcha" tactics which ignore facts. Pliny the Elder wrote nothing of Christ and Christianity because he was not a historian. Did Pliny the younger EVER reference his father in any of his historical accounts? You're lazy Bob, and I doubt you will do the research so why should I answer for you? You just hate God and run with whatever you can find to help support your belief that you are better, stronger, smarter than God and have the right to exist without God outside of Hell.

You state that Pliny the Elder wrote during the time of Christ as if Pliny the Elder was a historian, which he was not. I suggest you do a little research into Pliny the Elder so you know who you are talking about when you use him in support of your myth argument.

It's a waste of time arguing with somebody like you. You won't research the facts yourself, won't listen to reason. This whole "myth" thing you are teaching has never been an issue through all of history until recently. Even the historical text books at the totally atheistic and evolutionary secular college I attended a few years ago, as well as some of my friends, never implied Jesus was not the same historical Jesus of the Bible. The only real dispute they have is the same as it has always been, denying His claims of being divine and denying He is risen from the dead.

I'm sure that if we look at your list of "historians" we will find much the same of how you imply Pliny the Elder was a historian. You are ignoring history, Bob. Your approach really is childish, as is the whole modern "myther" movement.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I don't think you even watched the video as you are ignoring the fact that your "skeptic objections" were answered in the video, and you do not address any of those points but just paste your plagiarized junk which you have made no effort to research.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Just repeating the intellectual laziness of Boob and the dishonesty of people who push this "Jesus is a myth" garbage........

Boob starts out with the strength of his argument being that Pliney the Elder as A HISTORIAN and never wrote of Jesus. A quick look at Encylopedia Brittanica showed Pliney the Elder wrote of NATURAL history, relating mostly to medicinal plants, and stayed out of political discussions and NEVER WROTE ABOUT ROMAN CULTURE OR HISTORY, MUCH LESS ABOUT THE JEWS WHO WERE SUBJECTS OF ROME AND OF LITTLE INTEREST TO ROMAN HISTORIANS, AND MUCH LESS INTEREST TO PLINEY THE ELDER WHO WAS NOT A HISTORIAN.

It was like pulling my own teeth trying to get Boob to admit he did not research is own post and did not really know what he is talking about, but do you think Boob could admit he was misled, do you think Boob could admit that Pliney the Elder never wrote about Jesus because he was not a historian and stayed out of politics? Nope. Boob can't admit to being fallible because he thinks he is his god and thinks he makes himself un-exist in death so he can't end up dying in Hell forever like he is dying now in reality.

2 points

Sure. Jesus was referenced outside of the Bible.

But barely. At least from anybody non religious.

But here are two things about that.

One...those references are VERY scarce. No more than three or four from Secular sources. And don't count Josephus, since he was NOT secular. A secular source is an objective source not involved in any religion or church.

Like Pliny.

Two...none of those secular mentions of Jesus say anything about him being divine. Much less God. Nor do they say he even did miricals. All they say is that some of his followers spoke of him doing magic and healing.

So what does all this tell us? That is indisputable today?

Only that a guy named Jesus existed in Palestine back then and was a sort of holy man with a cult following. Hell, David Korean had that much.

Even most atheists admit a dude called Jesus probably existed.

What they dispute is him being divine. Or a God.

And your video does no such thing either. Not even close.

And there's this.....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2776194/Jesus-never-existed-Writer-finds-no-mention-Christ-126-historical-texts-says-mythical-character.html

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I think most people see by your own words that you are not a Christian.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Now you have flatly admitted you do not believe Jesus Christ is divine. You are not a Christian, you are not saved, you are dying, a walking talking dead man in your sins with no Savior. Maybe you are too dumb and won't be introduced to the real leaders of your Unity movement who are hard core Satan worshippers, witches......maybe you already know and are pretending you don't know....maybe you will never know and keep on believing this stupid religion in which you think you are saved by something that can't get itself out of dying in Hell forever.

Jupiter(116) Clarified
1 point

its a debate. regardless of personal view . Talk about it historically not biblically. Anyone can write a book.

And Jesus Referenced in Christianity and islam. And islam see's jesus as a simple prophet of god. Cause they believe god cant possibly be able to stoop to level of mere mortals and that god cant be human cause we are so unclean.

So a Jesus could have existed but not THE Jesus of the bible

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Apparently you did not watch the videos referenced in the OP and you, like Boob, just want to talk and pretend like you actually know what you are talking about. I can't help it if you are dumb enough to believe everything you hear and too lazy to do a little research to check and see if you are being lied to.

1 point

Jeez! Saintnot, You know I'm an Atheist, but I've NEVER said Jesus didn't exist. I've seen enough "evidence" (You know, that NASTY stuff!), to convince me that a charismatic MAN named Jesus DID exist. I can't argue with that. It's that Son of God thingy I can't find any actual "nasty" evidence about. Just "mythological" evidence.

But, YOU believe as you wish, I've no problem with that. You don't have to get so upset about it! Many of us see a different ...truth.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

"Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain."

Banned for using a slang version of the Lord's name as a cuss word. As soon as I see anybody do this, I do not read their post and they are banned.

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

If what you call "truth" is different from what I call "truth", they are either both lies or one is true. I know the truth, you believe lies. I can't condone your idea of personal preference of truth which is not objective.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

I'll unban you since you are not, like Boob and some others, foaming at the mouth spouting off garbage of lies they want to believe in desperation of denying God rules over them.

1 point

Correct. That is the point of this discussion well supported in the videos referenced in the OP. The debate about Jesus Christ has always been, from before He was crucified about His Deity, and after He was crucified, about His literal resurrection from the dead, life returning to His body and coming out of the grave physically. I created this discussion to challenge people who actually believe Jesus of the Bible is a myth to reevaluate their sources.......and thanks to Boob for posting the most stupid proof that people like him who believe this "modern myther' argument do not research the material they promote because they are intellectually lazy and ignore the dishonesty of liars who present fabrications as facts. It's amazing how much detail they put into making that "list of historians" boob presented appear to be structured and researched, and people actually believe it is documentary when a fast search on the web shows it is based on lies and nothing more. The whole "Jesus is a myth" argument is based on lies and suckers pay liars for making books about it....amazing.

0 points

Archeology proving the Bible.

https://youtu.be/39-dhelsPbY

Demon_Hunter(635) Disputed Banned
1 point

No it does not.

Some archaeological findings have only proven that some of the places and structures and peoples mentioned in the Bible might have existed. That's all. They show that some of the history of the Hebrew peoples mentioned in the Bible is partially true.

But those diggings prove Nothing about the existence of Yahweh. Or any of Jesus miracles. Or that God really exists today or loves you or that Jesus resurrected.

Nothing. It's like finding some remnants of the Parthenon in Greece and saying that PROVES that Zeus lived.

The most important aspects of the Bible...god and Jesus resurrection, are not proven or even supported by anty archaeological findings.

I watched your video. Are you fair enough to read this?

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/does-archaeology-support-the-bible

Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I do not allow people who claim to be Christians yet obviously are demon inspired and driven to guide me. I have seen all the garbage you want me to look at, seen it all many times. You need to get saved from Hell, you need to repent and believe on The LORD GOD OMNIPOTENT, who is Jesus Christ the Son of God who died for your sins, paid your price, conquered death and is risen from the dead and lives forever, to redeem you from dying forever in the Lake of Fire where you will be if you keep fighting against Him.

-1 points

If referring to America, I love to point out that at least I did not report your freedom destroyed even though I found it offensive and very prejudice. However, big government served with the fact that you reported my last argument regarding welfare and for dessert crippling rules just proves my point. Every reason to have a nice day.

Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

I don't know who you are talking to, but it's not me. Please discuss the topic here or refrain from posting.