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51
29
Liked it Didn't like it
Debate Score:80
Arguments:44
Total Votes:102
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 Liked it (24)
 
 Didn't like it (20)

Debate Creator

jessald(1915) pic



3 points

America needs healthcare reform. We can provide it without increasing the deficit.

Failing to act will allow costs to pile up due to inefficiencies in the system. Failing to act will allow Americans to continue going bankrupt due to an inability to pay for reform. As the President has said, "The time for bickering is over."

I hope this speech will give healthcare reform the push it needs to get through the door.

Side: Liked it
Prevaricate(57) Disputed
2 points

attn Jessald:

so after falling all over yourself in praise of Our Dear Leader, do you realize that nothing he said will curb the rising premiums, deductibles, etc.

why can't we have universal healthcare or singlepayer or public options

who is gonna control these "exchanges" --- another corporate industry invention

Side: Didn't like it
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

Are you kidding me? Haven't you ever heard of a Blue Dog Democrat? There aren't enough votes to get the public option through the Senate.

Singlepayer healthcare simply would not make it through Congress. Like it or not we live in a Democracy.

Side: Liked it
0 points

There's a typo in there that I can't edit. I meant to say:

"Failing to act will allow Americans to continue going bankrupt due to an inability to pay their medical bills."

Side: Liked it
2 points

No argument- speech rocked- what I didn't like was the rude behavior of congressman from South Carolina

Side: Liked it
Prevaricate(57) Disputed
2 points

attn RKMc ...:

it was simply a speech with a lotta flowery talk and rhetoric

no universal health-care, no single payer, no public option, real regulation for insurance companies, etc,...

all Obama wants is a health-care bill (doesn't matter if it good or bad or works or doesn't work) and he wants bipartisanship (defined as having at least one Republican voting for his bill)

Side: Didn't like it
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
0 points

Are you kidding me the speech was so full of BS, I praise the congressman for finally standing up and saying what everybody else is thinking. It would be a government takeover contrary to what Obama said. Oh do I dare call him a lier? Here for you as well is some behind the seens talking when Obama is really telling you the truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

Side: Didn't like it
Mahollinder(893) Disputed
2 points

The "you lie" yell was ironic because President Obama was speaking the truth on all counts.

And your video is irrelevant to current legislation. It doesn't matter what Obama said 2 and 6 years-ago. What is relevant is the regulations in the current proposed bills.

Side: Liked it
2 points

President Obama is going out truely listening to the concerns of the people and is trying to find solutions. I didn't fully understand the meaning of a healthcare reform, all I knew is that it needs improving. Just listening to parts of the speech, President Obama gave examples of some peoples horrific tesimonies of how Doctors don't give a d__n about your life threatening illnesses if you have no money to pay for treatment. He has concerns about the elderly and not getting rid of Medicare, like some in the government wishes to do. Medicare in America is different than the Medicare program of Canada and Australia. Australia and Canada tax the people to pay for the elderly's health care treatment. Whereas, Medicare in America is a medical and hospital treatment plan for people over 65. The government partially pays for it. Medicaid is a blessing also, For people like myself who got into unfortunate situations which caused me to be unable to afford healthcare for me nor my children and when I needed that help the government was there. I would also like to add, President Obama estimated how much we will be saving in this Healthcare reform plan, and he said, "$900 Billion dollars for over the next ten years. Which would be less than the price we spent for the Iraq war.." That sounds like a man who is a wise thinker one who takes considerable thought before reacting. Right now I envy his wife Michelle. So can we all say that it is time to stop splurging and start conserving?

Side: Liked it
1 point

The speech itself was alright. I just didn't the democrats reaction to "Liar." Of course it was a republican yelling it, but he just did it to be humorous.

Side: Liked it
1 point

President Obama is going out truely listening to the concerns of the people and is trying to find solutions. I didn't fully understand the meaning of a healthcare reform, all I knew is that it needs improving. Just listening to parts of the speech, President Obama gave examples of some peoples horrific tesimonies of how Doctors don't give a d__n about your life threatening illnesses if you have no money to pay for treatment. He has concerns about the elderly and not getting rid of Medicare, like some in the government wishes to do. Medicare in America is different than the Medicare program of Canada and Australia. Australia and Canada tax the people to pay for the elderly's health care treatment. Whereas, Medicare in America is a medical and hospital treatment plan for people over 65. The government partially pays for it. Medicaid is a blessing also, For people like myself who got into unfortunate situations which caused me to be unable to afford healthcare for me nor my children and when I needed that help the government was there.

Side: Liked it

It is now 2015 and what he said back then is still held true today. There are now millions of Americans who can finally afford health insurance.

Side: Liked it
2 points

i would've loved it if i were an insurance company executive

but, i'm just an ordinary person with skyrocketing healthcare premiums and co-pays

Side: Didn't like it
1 point

I don't think he went into enough specific detail. He was very broad.

As for the shout out, that was disrespectfull and the guy apologized. I did think it was a little funny though. (:

Also funny is that the left suddenly wants everyone to respect the president. It was weird hearing David Letterman say "he's the president for crying out loud" think he would have said that if the same exact thing happened to Bush?

Side: Didn't like it
iamdavidh(4871) Disputed
2 points

I disagree,

the shout was a stroke of genius highlighting perfectly Conservative fall into the dark corners or the far-right paranoid psyche.

I mean, you had a President giving a broad overlay of what he wanted, making two Conservative concessions in the name of diplomacy and at cost to many of his supporters in the name of compromise.

And the response is an angry shout from a man who fell for one of those Internet scams where he thought he could buy a title of royalty.

He represented what has become of his party perfectly.

I mean, let's ignore that the proposed bill says in all caps that no money is to, or ever is to be spent on the Healthcare of illegal immigrants,

nah, just shout stupid shit at the top of your lungs. It was perfect.

Honestly, I think you guys should have him run in 2012. I can think of no one to better represent the party.

(historical point: in 8 years no Democratic Representative shouted "you're lying" during a Bush speech... even when, it turned out, he was lying)

HILARIOUS! ._.

Side: Liked it
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

So all in all, you liked the shout out because it gives you an opportunity to blame and laugh at republicans. And you know it. It's ammo for faggots all over again. A republican screwed up ALL ABORD! Once again, class act.

And you keep acting like Conservatives and Republicans are the exact same thing. Stop that.

Side: Didn't like it
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

The entirety of the healthcare debate is too complicated for just one speech. If you want more information, then it's not hard to find:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/plan/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_reform_debate_in_the_United_ States

I myself don't really care about the shouting. It was bad, but mostly just a distraction from the real issues.

Side: Liked it
1 point

You make a good point about how we did not show Bush any respect, then again he didn't deserve any. Obama does deserve some respect at least until he does half of what Bush did. The man hasn't done anythig except give speeches and people hate him already. He can't get anything done because everyone thinks he's out to get them or something.

Side: Liked it
1 point

Look good debate here. i will try to keep things civil. The one and only few government entities that I trust is the CBO. The CBO is a non biased office that has top economist that overlooks and help congress and the president in how much things will cost. They have said that it will cost at least 1 trillion to 1.5 trillion a year. Obama has said that it will cost 900 billion so he's only 100 billion off the low estimate but still says that the CBO is wrong in their estimates. Who is he to tell them? What other number is he pulling it from? If you know anything about government things always are going to cost more than they say they are. That's a fact

Side: Liked it
iamdavidh(4871) Disputed
2 points

The cost is exactly why we need to do something about healthcare.

Here is what countries spend per-capita on healthcare link

Yeah, we spend way more right now, even with 10 million people not even paying into the system.

Now, here's where we are ranked based on infant mortality, life expectancy, and general health in the world link

That's right, we pay the most, we have the worst healthcare in the industrialized world. There are 3rd world countries with better healthcare than us.

Every single country with government healthcare has better healthcare than us, and they pay less money for it than we do.

There is no real life example of government healthcare not both being cheaper, and being better for individuals.

None.

Don't fall for the million-dollar-a day Insurance company scam of government = bad healthcare.

It's not true, and they just want to protect the 3 trillion dollars in profits they've made over the last 4 years by ripping off the American people.

If you're concerned about the economy. Than that's all the more reason to want an overhaul of the healthcare system.

65% of all Bankruptcies in America are because of Medical emergencies.

This kills our economy even worse than if taxes had to be increased a pittance to cover that 100 billion you spoke of.

100 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the money all of these bankruptcies take out of our economy.

More proof some sort of government plan, an option at least with rules for the insurance companies is a better solution than the status-quo: link

This is a link to the best and worst healthcare by States. Now, I purposely picked Forbes because you cannot find a more pro-big business, anti-big government magazine when it comes to economics.

The worst States like Texas, are States where Insurance companies have fewer rules, less competition, and less over site. Look it up if you like.

The top ranked State is Hawaii. Hawaii is also the only State where providing healthcare is mandatory.

The facts are in. This is no mystery jt. Healthcare is a win win for everyone no matter what your politics are.

Side: Liked it
1 point

Things always cost more than they say thats a fact. The CBO says 1.5 trillion Obama says there wrong that it's going to be 900 billion so he's 600 billion off the CBO high mark. Who's Obama at top economist? Calling the CBO out. This is why people are getting sick of him even given proven data by top people he chooses to ignore it and make up numbers on his own.

When we all know that it's going to cost a hell of a lot more than 900 Billion if this thing ever goes through. Just like we all new that unemployment was going over 8.5% regardless of the Pork Stimulus, but he chose to ignore that as well and all knowing that it wasn't going to make it stay below 8.5% the guy will say anything to get what he wants passed.

Side: Didn't like it
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

The numbers you're quoting came from HR 3200, the House bill. Obama has made some concessions with this new plan (mainly keeping costs down by fining insurance companies who sell very expensive plans) and this new plan has not yet been reviewed by the CBO.

Side: Liked it
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

What new plan? I have not heard of a new plan please advise what you are talking about. Who has seen the new plan this is news to me.

Side: Didn't like it
1 point

The reason why Joe Wilson spoke was that all they asked for was an amendment that would ask for people to receive the health care to prove that they legally have the right to be here and they denied it. The congressional research committee looked into how it is worded right now and they themselves have said that indeed there is a loophole that would allow for illegal immigrants to receive this. Is a matter in fact in California where I'm originally from illegals already receive free health care it is one of the reasons California is broke, it's really sad when California is the worlds 7th largest economy on it's own and it is broke. Just to show you that what will happen if the bill doesn't get properly done.

Side: Didn't like it
1 point

I just had a business client this week that is from England and told me a story of how she got into a bad car wreck here in the states. She said that if she would have been in England she would have died that's how bad the public option is there in England. Her family came to visit her here in NC and they said that our hospitals are so clean and look like a palace compared to what they have. since that's the one Obama has modeled after that's the likelihood. There needs to be reform but they need to talk about all of the other good ones that are on the table as well and let the American people hear them. The system isn't totally broken doesn't need to be completely torn down and resurrected to a government plan where quality will suffer. Just needs to be fixed in the right places. One thing that bothers me on Obama is that he promises more for less and that is systematically, economically and even mathematically impossible. i think that they should start by getting rid of the state mandates on health insurance which makes you only buy the insurance the state you live in. Well I think that's wrong the insurance companies with that have created mini monopolies.

Side: Didn't like it
0 points

He never answers the tough questions straight forward, how can you when you are reading from a teleprompter. He admits that he has never read the bill so when he says this and that he is just taking someone else's word for it not his own. I believe that reform needs to happen but not a complete government take over which it would be. Employers would be ultimately dumping their employees over to the Gov run plan because if they decide to keep the current plan they have to pay an add 8%.

Side: Didn't like it
jessald(1915) Disputed
2 points

Many Republicans are suddenly all horrified at the idea of congressmen "not reading bills." As if that's not the way every major bill in recent history has been passed. Legislation is created by committees and reviewed by several people on a legislator's staff. I agree that we should make bills smaller and easier to understand, but that's an issue for another day. This debate is about health care.

No one is proposing a government take over of health care. If you actually listened to the speech, or looked at a summary of what's been proposed you would know that. All we want to do is mandate that everyone purchase their own health insurance, and provide some form of aid to those who can't afford it.

The "Government plan", or public option, that you mention would be a good idea for many reasons, but it doesn't matter because it won't make it into the final bill.

Side: Liked it
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

He has actually said it publicly that it would be a complete takeover. On March 7th 2009 in front of a large group of his constituents. When he actually tells the truth about it this is what he said. "That he sees the government health plan taking over private by 2019". I heard the transcript myself. Just like every politician he will not be honest when it comes to the TV and speaking to the masses. You are one of the most biased persons I have come across. He got laughed at by the entire house when he said "that there are some problems with it that need to get worked out". The whole speech was filled with lies. I would be in favor of a Government plan but the one that they have on the table right now is not the one. Penalizing private business 8% if they decide to keep their current plan is wrong and I promise you that is in the bill and that is why people believe that eventually all business would dump their employees on the government plan.

Side: Didn't like it
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

Just for your knowledge you criticize other people for not vetting there information well I though that I would just send you a Utube clip of Obama actually saying for himself that the private system would go by the wayside. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

Side: Didn't like it
0 points

All I heard was the sound of an egotistical demagogue who likes to hear himself speak.

Was it a nice speech? Sure. But want to know what is even better than a nice speech? Actual action, it is truly sad how a President with a majority in Congress still manages to fail when it comes to passing bills.

So at the end of the day we won't get health care reform or the removal of bills being passed after they only had an hour to be read, but instead we get bullshit like cap(tax) & trade as well as the internet cyber security bill.

Side: Didn't like it
jessald(1915) Disputed
3 points

Democrats aren't one unified block. Unlike Republicans they tend to have minds of their own. Some want to tax the wealthy to pay for full-scale government run health care. Some are conservatives who want to leave everything to the insurance companies. It shouldn't be surprising that there has been considerable disagreement over the bill.

Despite this, a reform package will be passed, in fact it's almost done. The only question is how much it will get watered down in the process.

As for not reading the bill, that's a load of crap. Senators have their staff read the bill. They know what's in it.

And the cyber security bill has nothing to do with Obama.

Side: Liked it
-1 points

I didn't understand it. probably because I didn't see it. Mainly because I don't trust him.

Side: Didn't like it
RKMcAllister(39) Disputed
2 points

How can you say you didn't like it if you didn't see it? How are we supposed to move forward as a society if we don't listen to each other? It seems crazy to comment on something you haven't witnessed.

Side: Liked it
confused(45) Disputed
1 point

Why can't I comment on it? Just because I didn't watch it does not mean I don't have an opinion. Besides, I have a right to comment on whatever I want. Why should I be forced to watch some boring speech?

Side: Didn't like it
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
2 points

..... Are you trying to make us right wingers look bad?

It's as if a liberal made a fake account just to make us look bad. ..... ..

...Makes me wonder .... .. :\

Side: Didn't like it