Obama and socialism
I believe that many of the new laws and bills that Obama is imposing on the American people are socialistic. The only thing he is helping is the American people into a economic and moral downward spiral that is going to anihilate the America we know and love. This started a long time ago with the not-so-simple idea to remove God from every aspect of education and the pledge. Now Obama is delivering the final punch that is going to knock Americans down and off their feet. I don't think that we will get up after this one guys!
Opinions?! I want to know if anybody else out there agrees with me on this issue. If u don't you can just get over it!!! ~!V
Side Score: 146
Side Score: 165
That is the problem with our world... instead of seeking a job based on interest and passion, we seek jobs based on the wealth that can be earned." I see your point but it is flawed. There are jobs that are not fun at all, but still have to be done. In a capitalist country, the incentive for doing those hard job is higher wages, but in a socialist country, there is no incentive for those jobs. Also, if everyone wanted to work, your theory might work, but the mentality of most is to do just enough to get by, but in a socialist country, doing just enough to get by can be doing very little, yet making the same as someone doing very much which is not right if you ask me. Also, in a capitalist society, you can make your passions work out for you in the end, it just takes hard work. Which is why the majority of people in America are not very wealthy. They are lazy. And to introduce an ideology of giving people more money for working less, then America would crumble with the lazy society we have now. Yes, there are certain jobs such as manual labor which don't pay as much as more of a mental job and may be more labor, but it's only because brains are better than brawn. It all boils down to the simple fact that in a capitalist society, if you work hard with anything (even if it's something you love), you can make quite a bit of money off of it. In a socialist or communist society, all it does is breed laziness because those who do not work as hard get paid as much as those who do. I challenge one person. Just one to give me one thing you love that can't or hasn't made a lot of money in America!
What does political correctness have to do with socialism? What does political correctness have to do with Obama? And what does foreign policy have to do with socialism?
It sounds to me like you're angry but you don't know why and are just flailing around in random directions.
Why the barbs man?
My son just read the post and commented that he thought this was CreateDebat not CreateInsult!
In that spirit I am going to refrain from any insults.
On to my response.
It has nothing to do with socialism. But question was not about socialism. It was Obama and socialism". It has to do with the fact that people are afraid to or just plain don't call a duck a duck anymore and that is political correctness!
A socialist is a socialist...plain and simple. Any denial by Obama and his supporters is spin designed to cover his tracks.
One does not have to listen to what Obama or his opponents say, or to liberal/conservative spin, but to look at what he has tried to do. Personally I say "try" because in my opinion, he has yet to accomplish one productive thing.
Angry? You bet and I know exactly why.
Political correctness allows anti-American groups to grow and do harm to Americans. It allows for complacency which leads to weakness and prevents laws from being enforced to protect Americans; essentially eliminating liberties. Obama has himself been guilty of promoting racism which is ironic since America voted for a black president. When Obama has applauded the socialist dictators of Latin America he is espousing socialism for America especially since his agenda is not merely suspiciously socialistic. Of course the majority of America is angry. His agenda is unconstitutional. I used to vote Democrat for 32 years until this president. If you can't see the relationship between the two or have any pride in your country's history perhaps, you should read, "The 5000 Year Leap" which will give you a clear comprehension of what our founders went through to create an ideal government system. I also suggest you look outside your leftist leanings for information. The facts are out there, I found them a few months ago and that is why I am no longer a Democrat. Take a look at the people he's surrounded himself with, people who think alike hang together. He's definitely a socialist and trying to push our country into financial hell. He admitted that the private sector was key to putting people back to work yet, he's bent on spending more "stimulus" dollars which didn't work the FIRST time. It was all a sham. He bitched and moaned for over 6 months about how he was "left with a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit" all the while he's pushing to spend more and more and now we're up to $7.6 trillion. Are all of the liberals in Washington crooked and corrupt? You bet they are and they are Progressives" which is a hidden term for Communist.
Man I'm getting tired of typing this. AHEM!!! The Living Webster Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language. And I quote..."socialism, A theory or method of social organization and government wherby the citizenry jointly owns he means of production and distribution, and the power of administrative control is vested in the state; in Marxism, an intermediate state which must necessarily follow capitalism before the goal ot a totally lassless society can become a functional reality.
socialist, One who advocates socialism; a person who belongs to a political party so named.
socialize, To render social, as to suit something to the uses or needs of society; to render sociable, as to make fit for life in companionship with others; to render socialistic, as to establish or regulate according to the theories of socialism. To participate in friendly interchange with other people.
Now, that being said. Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States do I recall anything about the government being entitled to the power of creating an equal society. Sure, it is nice that some elected officials truly want to help their fellow man, but it does not take long for greed to get a grip and turn things upside down. The statement that there is no evidence Obama is not a socialist, are you kidding me? Government mandated health care? You all know what mandate means don't you? Being commanded to do so. That means YOUR government is wanting to command everyone in this country to get healthcare. Again, nowhere in the Constitution of the United States do I ever remember seeing anything about the entitlement of power given to the government to demand anything from the Soveriegn (us, as in We The People).
No evidence is necessary. It is self evident...wait a sec where have I heard that one : )
Constant interference in the individuals right to make decisions for themselves.
Interference or just plain take over of education, banks, auto industry, housing, health care, guns, media, ....man the list is almost endless.
No one in this world is more important than my family. No one!
I will help all that I can and the the people of the USA have always been the most generous of all the world but we do this at OUR discretion.
All power of the government comes from us. Not the other way around They have no power to do what we cannot..that is take from one to give to another...except from the point of a gun.
They are no different than a thug on the street.
"...but we also need to realize what this nation was founded on... GOD. One nation under God~!"
No it wasn't. Do you know what Article 11 of the The Treaty of Tripoli is? It was a declaration of peace between The United States and the Tripoli of Barbary, signed in 1796 (only 20 years after the Declaration of Independence), which stated:
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [source]
This nation was NOT founded on "One nation under God". It was founded on, in part, the separation of church & state, as stated quite eloquently by some of our key Founders at the time.
The phrase "Under God" was officially incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance only in 1954...not 1776!
(With apologies to Vonnegut), doesn't everything socialist just make you want to throw up? Like public schools, health care for all, policemen, fire departments, public parks, Social Security, and unemployment benefits?
Every time I hear this argument, I'm always amazed. Astounded, really. Don't you people realize that socialism is all around you?
Don't you realize that socialism does not lead to dead grandmas and Jesus crying crocodile tears and puppies being run through meat grinders?
Do you even know what socialism is? I pay taxes that support public schools, yet have no children and have been out of public school for over 10 years. Is there a better example of socialism? I should be outraged, right?
ummm yes he is trying to give more power to the government and take it away from the people. socialism is the first step towrds communism and u know how that ends up... not good is how that ends up. throughout american history we have gone through recesions and have come out of them due to a great presidents work. Reagan lowered taxes. and didnt give more power to the government.
Here are just a few oh I forgot to mention his other Communist buddy Ayers.
I'm trying to help where theres smoke there fire.
All you have to do is look at Obama's mentors and it's obvious that he has deep Marxist sentiment. Obama even has said that Frank Marshall Davis was his childhood mentor. He has even admitted that he attended and read communist literature and has friends that he admires who are communist. The evidence goes even deeper just google Frank Marshall Davis and Obama has ties to all of it. Almost no argument here.
Everybody who does not see this must not know how hard it is to start a business and make a profit. Obama has not shown much of any support for the private sector which creates all of the jobs. I think that 2010 when the mid term elections hit it will be a rude awakening. People like Obama the man but they don't like his policies and that ripple is already being felt by the White House.
"Obama has not shown much of any support for the private sector which creates all of the jobs."
Ummm, what about all the efforts that he's been dedicating to enhancing the green economy in the USA?? What about all the tax cuts in the stimulus bill for businesses??
I am surprised. I am new to this website and I didn't think that I could find socialists here. I was just about the only one at my last site. I will warn you however, sometimes I become rather Communistic. Anyway...
I have no issue with sharing our countries prosperities with everyone within. That is Socialism. I think that everything should be free as long as we respectively give what we can.
OMG! You have to be kidding! Doesn't work? What do you think built this country to from basicaly farmers to be the greatest economic power on earth?
It sure was not Lennin, Marx, Stalin , Mao, or any of the other socialist, marxist, or communist "Revolutionaries".
Please name me one Socialist country that succeeded and before you start screaming China don't forget that the have been a huge user of capitalism wheather they want to call it that or not.
Do you feel like government has or is going to have more control over your life and with what has happened with this admin. Here is a cut and paste from Wiki that defines socialism we are there already and going deeper.
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.
"Do you feel like government has or is going to have more control over your life and with what has happened with this admin."
No, but thanks for asking. Under Obama so far, the super-vast majority of people are paying LESS in payroll taxes. We also no longer have an official policy of torturing people, and spying on Americans without due process. That sounds like LESS govt. intrusion to me!
"Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production"
OK, now how has Obama himself, since he's been in office, taken over "public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production"??
OBAMA IS SO FOR SOCIALISM. People need to stop beating around the bush here.. honestly... Obama speaks for EQUALITY amoung all.. okay that's awesome glad we are all equal. But, at the end of the day.. CAPITALISM is what America is about. If we are all equal no body is going to want to work to be the best. Capitalism creates competition in the work force, the best roofer with the best price wins. Socialism would be like putting 10 roofing companies in a hat, and saying draw one. Completely pointless, and we lose quality work like there is no tomorrow. I wouldn't work for my grades if I was given an A for everything. Same with socialism.. if schools were social then we wouldn't have a valedictorian, we wouldn't have students trying like crazy to get good grades to get into good schools. Socialism= LAZY
Side: Socialism equals lazy
Duh, he was raised as a socialist there is no argument here if you think otherwise then you don't know what socialism is. For Obama the great thing about being a Socialist is that Socialism needs Capitalism in order to work. If you even doubt that he is a socialist you can pull up his audio book on the the dreams of my father Obama himself reads it. Here is a great link that is very well done and accurate. i love this opening statement so I pasted it for your intrigue.
People who say Obama is NOT a socialist are either blind or they purposefully don’t want to admit it. He’s made it more than clear that he wants socialist ideas put into practice. We should be very concerned about this!!!!!!!!!!
Britain isn't a socialist and has had a national health service for many years.
Only idiots call him socialist..
To all you intelligent Americans out there... this is what the world sees as America - these few retards that burn Obama signs and call him socialist, anti-american, anti-christ etc. just for bringing in something that in no way is Socialist.
Have you ever take to an actual Brit or know people who live their. I do. They absolutely hate their health care system. For the most part the hospitals are dirty and the service is horrible even further my friend who lives there got into a bad crash here in American and was thankful she told me for certain that she would have died if she was in Britain.
For the most part NHS is an efficient and extremely useful service. You CANNOT look at the NHS in a tangeable sense. Not only does that mean you're putting prices on lives but it means that you see health only as a monetary thing.
Public schools - Are they socialistic?
Police service - Is that socialistic?
Fire Department - Is that socialistic?
Military - Is that socialistic?
If no then why is national health systems socialistic?
If yes then why don't you argue against those services??
I was from England and all my friends are from England (and a few from Canada) And they all say they love there health care. Its cheaper because you only pay 700 euros (1000 in USD) as aposed to 1000 euros (1500) the private sector has to offer, and the waiting line is only long in Canada because a bunch of dumbass doctors left it in fear they would lose there jobs. In America he have enough doctors so that we could provide the same surice as the private sector.
Personally, i believe the bible has no place in government. Maybe in private life, but not government. Some people don't believe in God or they believe in other gods or other forms of God (Jewish people, Muslims, Ect.) Personally, a Theocracy is the worst for of government (thats the government that Iran and such has, just because were Christian, doesn't mean we can make it work because were 'better') I know this statement has nothing to do with what you have said about socialism, but America will, and never be a Socialist nation. Simply because there is no proof Obama is a Socialist.
Wow, you are anti-Christian. I've been an atheist for thirty years and even I know that this country was founded on Judeo/Christian ethics. Read some American History, the Federalist Papers perhaps or a book called, "The 5000 Year Leap". I have NO problem with the laws in this country based on those ethics. Our government, to correct you, is NOT a theocracy. The separation of church and state has it's roots in the government not endorsing one particular faith or church ONLY. Try to read up on our country's history. Obama and his administration are socialist. Look up their political leanings, the majority of his 28 Czars (by the way George Bush had only 8) are communists, look it up. People who think alike hang together. The communists in America have infiltrated black churches and have espoused "social justice", "redistribution of wealth". Those are socialist terms. Look those up and you'll find that even Obama has used them in his speeches. He has kept his past well hidden so as not to alarm the voters and expose his true beliefs. Look it up. Stop allowing their rhetoric to cloud your judgment, they try to demonize anyone who speaks out against their agenda, those are the tactics of socialists, straight out of the Saul Alinsky book. Look it up. Please don't say "never" when it is happening now. They are trying to "fundamentally change America" didn't you listen when he said that? Didn't you stop to think what he meant by that? They are passing spending bills that are taxing us into oblivion, don't you see that when they do that we lose a little bit more of our liberty? If we pay more and more of our income to pay for programs for others who aren't contributing we are losing the say-so of where we choose to spend our hard earned money. I sure hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. I voted Democrat for 32 years until I decided to look into this administration, research for myself. I'm no longer a Democrat.
He is definitely somewhere in the middle right now. Although he may appear socialistic right now, this is mainly because of the economic state we are in. Usually in a depression or recession the government becomes more socialistic, and then swaps back to capitalistic values after their economy returns to normal.
I agree with you sir. In fact it was the War that got us out of the Depression. My parents were teenagers during the Depression, I learned a lot form them. I voted Democrat for 32 years until this administration, I woke up. This is the worst president for America. I love my country and I DON"T want it "fundamentally changed".
Now before I say anything, I have a disclaimer: I am a fourteen year old kid, so I just might have no idea what I'm talking about. Now that that's over with, here I go. The free market economy is structured in such a way that it will rebuild itself over time if a recession such as the current one occurs. In the month of November, and for the four months before that, sales, housing, stocks, and consumer confidence have gone up. Call me crazy, but I think that this free market economy just might be serving its purpose. Obama has no business messing with the ebb and flow of our free market, which by the way is quite possibly the greatest economy in the world.
Obama is not a socialist or socialistic.
He has not advocated for state or worker control of private enterprise. He has merely given some corporations a lot of money. He doesn't control or own them.
Expressing a desire to help those in need does not make you a socialist. It shows that you are human.
Not being overly religious doesn't make you socialist.
Opposing religion in politics doesn't make you socialist. It also doesn't mean you hate religion. It just means that you think they shouldn't influence each other.
Obama certainly isn't as openly religious as Bush but he isn't going to persecute religion like how Bush and his followers persecute non-believers. More people are free to live their lives without government influence because Obama believes in the separation of church and state.
Uh, HELLO! What do you think happened when they bailed out those corporations? They used our money, the tax payers money. They forced people to resign and take pay cuts.
"Expressing a desire to help those in need does not make you a socialist. It shows that you are human". You are right, but nowhere in the Constitution does it state that Government has the obligation to help the individual person or make an equal, classless society OR have the vested power to "BAIL OUT" any industry. Which of course has been done before.
If you remember Bush signed the $700 billion to bail out the banks and not obama. Also the bailout benefited the owners and corporations and not the common people or workers as a socialist action would. Sure the constitution doesn't say we need to bail out corporations or such but it also doesn't say we need to invade countries for imperialistic aims, spread capitalism around the world, or deny people certain rights because they conflict with the ruling religion. What i'm getting at is that, apparently in America the constitution, sadly, is merely a guideline of how to act or at least that is what most conservatives act like it is.
When you mention people being forced to resign and or take pay cuts, are you talking about the ceos and other positions of power or the workers? Ceos and related personnel might have been forced out by bailout conditions but workers were forced to resign or take lower payouts because the corporation decided to do that and not the government. Don't get me wrong, i think the bailouts were a terrible idea, and executed even worse but that is because the bailouts were constructed to help keep the corporations and the people running them able to continue their practices that brought about this mess in the first place.
Bush forced all this to happen, does that make him a socialist in your view? Obama inherited the mess and expectations of the country. The majority of his solutions and the end goals have been capitalistic in nature so really are saying he is a socialist because you dislike him and know that many Americans will accept that and blindly go along with that idea.
I feel like i'm gonna repeat my self again but obviously you haven't payed attention so far. I'm gonna break it down for you. First some definitions from http://www.merriam-webster.com which i assume is credible in your opinion.
Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
Capitalism: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
Now that you know where i'm coming from you should be able to realise that obama is in fact a capitalist. That is if you actually listened to him and what he did and didn't get your marching orders from the likes of rush limbaugh or glenn beck.
1) The automakers bailout was a capitalistic move because he gave huge sums of money to the corporations so that they could keep going without challenging the business structure at all.
a socialist as you should know would have abolished the position of ceo and either given COMPLETE control over to the workers of each plant or fully nationalized the company so that the government owned it. giving money without gaining official control or ownership doesn't constitute a socialist action.
2) His remedy for the healthcare system in the US is also capitalistic because he seeks to maintain private health companies with them giving few concessions.
A socialist would have made a plan to abolish all private health insurance companies and create a sole organization to run healthcare. merely adding an additional insurrance company(which happens to be owned by the government) does not make this plan a socialistic move.
i could go on but i'l be lucky if you really read all of what i just wrote. If you still believe he is socialist(which sadly you probably will) please respond with a list of defineite policies obama has taken that make him so.
Also I down voted your argument not because i disagree with you but because your argument contained no substance or support. You make big claims and believe that we should just accept them at face value.