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Obama just threatened public schools to allow so called Transgender kids in bathrooms.
Can Democrats be any more extremist? They are absolutely FIXATED on anything to do with abnormal unnatural sex. Can you imagine a dictator and cheif President being any more radical to force his views of sex on every child of every parent in this land? Hillary is no different! The arrogance from these control fanatics on the Left is diabolical. Can you imagine what will happen to this nation when she further destroys our supreme court with more activst judges?
This was from the news article concerning Obama's threat..... "The guidance contains an implicit threat that those not abiding by the Obama administration's interpretation of the law could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid."
If you vote for Hillary, you are the new age extremist forcing your ideology on ALL Americans. That goes against everything our Constitution speaks to when dealing with our freedoms to dissagree with the collective.
We have serious debt issues, serious foreign policy issues, serious illegal immigrtion issues and what do these Democrats keep fixating on? LGBT lobbyists! BIG DONATIONS FROM THOSE LOBBYISTS! Hillary can hardly get through a speech without speaking out for the LGBT community. The rest of Americans can just die I guess.
We have serious debt issues, serious foreign policy issues, serious illegal immigration issues and what do the Republicans in North Carolina make a law about? Bathrooms.
As always, never address the argument, just spew insults. Conservatives are forced to bring up these issues because the control fanatics on the Left constantly push it down our throats!
What a total idiot you are for not admitting that we speak out on these issues when the Left forces LGBT laws on every state in the nation. Now it is forcing laws on every public school in the nation. SICK!
Do you know what percent of transgender people attempt suicide? 41%. Let me say that again. 41% of people who are transgender attempt suicide. That's nearly 10 times the 4.6% of the general US population.
No one is suggesting that you can actually change your sex. That's why the term 'gender identity' exists.
And the point that 41% of transgender people attempt suicide is not an argument to say they should all get sex changes. It's pointing out that this is an issue that clearly needs to be addressed.
These kids need real intervention. Society is trying to tell them its cool to change your identity and pretend to be something your not. Kids have been doing this since I was little, just back then it wasnt about gendr
I fully respect your point SaintWithin, however, what if they don't want to be the gender they were born as? I mean God never said "Thou shall not be a transgender" , Christians know that God works in mysterious ways, so what if this is God's way of allowing tolerance acceptance, and ultimately love.
President Obama is out of line for suggesting such a thing.
Giving people access to a bathroom that doesn't match their gender is not something that you can force these schools to do. It's something that needs to be worked out by the local community.
honestly, that was me. I suppose there's nothing wrong with your argument, but it just wasn't convincing to me. was kinda a knee jerk reaction, but meh.
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I have trouble with the notion of anyone using the bathroom the same time as me. particularly Europeans who don't understand the culture of the "Buffer urinal" trans people with the equipment would likely not understand this convention. and then they'd think I was being trans-phobic because because of my clear disdain for taking the urinal right beside me. so fuck them.
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if they lack the equipment to stand and pee, they might as well go into the women's bathroom anyway, as it's cleaner, and they won't have to worry about sitting in piss, or dealing with the lovely aroma that comes from most public restrooms.
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as for women and their issues of people with penises using their bathrooms, that's usually seen unfavorably anyway.
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all in all the whole thing is silly. the bathrooms are designed for biological differences. if you can stand and need to pee, go use a urinal (mens) if you can't use a cleaner stall. (women) but are designed to be a place of serenity, where you don't have to worry about weirdos who want to look at your junk. it's not so much that I'm worried what equipment they have, it's what team they're playing for.
honestly, that was me. I suppose there's nothing wrong with your argument, but it just wasn't convincing to me. was kinda a knee jerk reaction, but meh.
I prefer a response over just a downvote; at least a response gives us a chance to hash out why we disagree,. I appreciate it.
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I have trouble with the notion of anyone using the bathroom the same time as me.
This is an issue with your own personal comfort, and has nothing to do with allowing transgender individuals into the bathroom of their gender.
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Europeans who don't understand the culture of the "Buffer urinal" trans people with the equipment would likely not understand this convention.
This is a reflection of your personal biases towards Europeans. Again, this has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If anything it seems like you're grouping these two things together, when there is no reason for it. Your fear that trans people won't get the bathroom conventions is poor at best. No one can know a particular region or gender's bathroom etiquette without having never had an opportunity, That said, people aren't completely socially unaware, and it's pretty easy to tell if something someone is doing is socially unaccepted.
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and then they'd think I was being trans-phobic because because of my clear disdain for taking the urinal right beside me.
Your fear of being perceived as transphobic is not only convolutedly meta, but also misplaced. That trans person is going to be way more uncomfortable than you are going in, and way more comfortable than going into a bathroom they don't identify with. Strictly quantitatively, there is less discomfort entropy in this configuration.
Further, how are you ever going to know if the person the stall over is standing too close to you because they're transgender? That happens all the time already, and it seems like you are choosing a convenient scapegoat for your discomfort with trans individuals in blaming bathroom etiquette.
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if they lack the equipment to stand and pee, they might as well go into the women's bathroom anyway, as it's cleaner, and they won't have to worry about sitting in piss, or dealing with the lovely aroma that comes from most public restrooms.
I've already covered why this is not a better scenario for a trans individuals. What leads you to believe that the trans community, or any community, would fight to make themselves more uncomfortable in the bathroom? Side note; women's bathrooms are no cleaner than men's. Everybody shits and everybody pisses.
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as for women and their issues of people with penises using their bathrooms, that's usually seen unfavorably anyway.
Completely unfounded.
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all in all the whole thing is silly. the bathrooms are designed for biological differences.
I typically wouldn't use appeals to comfort in my arguments, which is why the rebuttal showed how your reasoning is faulty within the confines of your own rationalization.
Actually, the average trans person will probably be more aware and observant of gendered restroom protocol than the average cis person. That information is very easy to find online, and since observing correct protocol in public restrooms can quite literally be a matter of life and death for tran people there is ample motive to learn it before ever stepping foot in a public restroom. Quite a few trans people are out at quite young ages, too, so they would be just as knowledgeable of protocol as their cis counterparts. Not that trans people should need to observe protocol just to take a piss, or be prohibited from restrooms for not doing so while their cis counterparts can continue to use the same restroom while not respecting protocol.
The danger faced by trans people in restrooms is also another reason that you are very unlikely to ever be confronted for being transphobic in that setting, and your speculation about possible judgemental thoughts others have of you is hardly a valid ground for denying people access to the restroom they prefer to use. Too put it both bluntly and crudly, grow a pair?
With respect to the "equipment", transgender men who present as male are very likely to be accosted for entering a women's restroom. They have facial hair, masculine facial features, etc. Using a bathroom stall in the men's restroom is generally far less of an issue (for everyone involved). There usually isn't much difference between men's and women's restrooms in terms of cleanliness, and even if there were by your reasoning why don't cleanly cis men start using the women's restroom to avoid the mess? Seriously, if a trans person still prefers the men's restroom even accounting for cleanliness then why should they use the other one... to make you more comfortable? And do you think cis men who've lost their penises (accident, eunich, whatever) should be legally forced to use the women's restroom?
As for cis women and their alleged issues with people with penises using the women's restroom (not "their" restroom any more than it is that of trans people, arguably)... This seems unfounded, for starters; I doubt most people really care all that much where people choose to piss. And, again, for passing trans men entering a women's restroom means being perceived as someone with a penis and can be just as much an issue. Furthermore, for trans women who transition they do not have a penis and pee the same as cis women.
The only thing bathrooms are designed to do is be a place for people to shit and piss. Bi-gendered is one approach, but that doesn't mean it is the best one. If restrooms can better serve their actual, primary function (letting people piss and shit) then there is no reason to retain outmoded practices surrounding them. Switching to neutral restrooms is actually far more efficient allocation of physical infrastructure, maintenance, etc. than split restrooms. And as long as we have bi-gendered restrooms, so long as the trans person can find a way to use the facility why should they not do so?
Cis people can be "weirdos looking at your junk" too, and it's a good deal more likely since it's literally safer for them to do it on account of not being at risk for just existing in the space. Of the two groups, cis people seem far more preoccupied with the junk of other people in the "their" restrooms than trans people; just saying. As for the "team they're playing for", I assume you mean sexuality... which is an entirely different (though equally absurd) issue.
About all I can agree with you on here is that this whole thing is silly. Why do people care where other people piss and shit? And why do you think your personal restroom insecurities should govern the personal choices others make? What you want is to restrict where others can go; the converse position is to let people go wherever they like. Personally, I prefer liberty where there is no compelling reason to restrict it... and your position thoroughly lacks such a reason.
P.S. I usually keep my personal identity out of discussions, but given our previous positive exchanges I want to level with you and say this is a very personal issue for me. I am transmasculine and genderqueer, and a number of people I care about are trans or intersex. I am sick of other people's insecurities being used as excuses to reduce our rights and privileges relative to those enjoyed by cisgender people. And, frankly, your concerns pale drastically in comparison to the concerns I face when I use a public restroom of either gender: threats, physical assault, and even death. I'm not disinterested in having a discussion with you (quite the opposite), but you should know you are speaking with someone who identifies with the group you are discussing. You don't know we well enough, perhaps, to know I'm anti-PC and SJW; I'm not going to jump down your throat over anything. And if you want to ask personal questions because you think it would help your understanding of my position feel free (just know that I may decline to answer them).
Why do folks keep saying that trannys aren't going to use this bathroom thing to sexually assault people? Maybe that's true, maybe not. What is true is that this will be used as a way for predators to get access to the prey they want. Proof of this is not too hard to find.
I just read the beginning of your text and came to remind you, for the gazillionth time, being transgender has nothing to do with sexual intercourse or orientation. You clearly don't understand what the word means or who trans people are so please stop discussing them.
Transgender is not a sexual disorder, or orientation. Stop bringing sex into everything in order to make something innocent sound sinister. Can you honestly say that sex is on the minds of these young, trans kids who haven't even reached puberty yet? Definitely not. This has nothing to do with sexuality. This is kids being themselves.
Have you ever had a conversation with a pervert or sexual predator? How about a pedophile? Have you ever tried to understand their positions?
Pedophiles are attracted to kids! They also say they are born that way. Gee, why not treat them like we treat Gays and transgender people. Why not just throw up our hands and endorse any weird disorder or sexual orientation as long as kids or women will probably not be harmed.
Why not change our marriage laws so that consenting children can marry pedophiles?
Oh wiat, wait wait you say. You say in this case we must protect our children from themselves because they are not old enough to make good decisions when it comes to marrying pedophiles?
BUT we are suppose to trust kids who say they are not a boy but a girl? When it comes to other weird sex, we should let the kids tell us what to do?
This is what those on the Right want to do....PROTECT OUR CHILDREN from dysfunctiona people and protect them from people such as yourself who are so fixated on sanctioning weird sex rather than being fixated on protecting our children and our women.
Have you ever had a conversation with a pervert or sexual predator? How about a pedophile? Have you ever tried to understand their positions?
I asked if you'd ever talked with a transgender person or even tried to understand their position. Guess the answer is no.
And to answer your question... yes, I have. And I've actually responded to this argument of yours before.
There is nothing inherently wrong with being attracted to children. What is wrong is acting on that, because as a society, we have agreed that children are not capable of giving consent. As such, any and all pedophelic sexual action is rape. It is hurtful to another person, which is the difference. I don't quite see how this example matches with being transgender. In fact, gender identity and sexual orientation aren't related at all.
Why not just throw up our hands and endorse any weird disorder or sexual orientation as long as kids or women will probably not be harmed.
Yeah, why not? If no one is going to get hurt, what is wrong with letting people do what makes them happy?
You say in this case we must protect our children from themselves because they are not old enough to make good decisions when it comes to marrying pedophiles?
As I said earlier, society has agreed that children are not sexually mature enough to give consent.
PROTECT OUR CHILDREN from dysfunctiona people and protect them from people such as yourself who are so fixated on sanctioning weird sex rather than being fixated on protecting our children and our women.
How on Earth does your child coming in contact with someone transgender hurt them?
rather than being fixated on protecting our children and our women.
Gee, you left out the most important sentence of my post. What a shock....not.
You say that we have agreed that children are not capable of giving consent.
I said.....BUT we are suppose to trust kids who say they are not a boy but a girl?
So kids are not mature enough, or capable of giving consent, but they are when it comes to their gender? All of a sudden they are mature and enlightened children who have the answers to life and what their gender is suppose to be?
Gee, you left out the most important sentence of my post. What a shock....not.
Hehe. You said this and then didn't respond to anything I wrote.
Now to your point...
You say that we have agreed that children are not capable of giving consent.
I said.....BUT we are suppose to trust kids who say they are not a boy but a girl?
So kids are not mature enough, or capable of giving consent, but they are when it comes to their gender? All of a sudden they are mature and enlightened children who have the answers to life and what their gender is suppose to be?
You seem to be implying that there is no difference between the development of identity and sexual maturity. Is that what you're trying to say?
Also, by this argument, are you implying that you are completely ok with non-gendered bathrooms outside of a school setting?
I agree i do not always respond to every point of every post. I do try to address the thrust of the post.
I'm trying to point out the obvious. We as adults understand that children do not possess the experience, the maturity or wisdom of life and can not make life changing decisions without guidance.
Kids go through all types of feelings when going through puberty, etc.
We all agree children should not be allowed to make decisions such as consenting to marriage to adults, etc. but those on the Left are so fixated on pushing the LGBT agendas, they tell us that kids possess the wisdom to understand all their feelings and issues of identity no matter if it conflicts with their biological bodies?
We as a nation are suppose to allow extremists such as Obama to force every public school to allow boys in girls bathrooms to accommidate the whims of children? Or should I say the whims of big money LGBT lobbyists.
I agree i do not always respond to every point of every post. I do try to address the thrust of the post.
That's fine. Just don't chastise others for doing the same.
I'm trying to point out the obvious. We as adults understand that children do not possess the experience, the maturity or wisdom of life and can not make life changing decisions without guidance.
I agree. But your form of 'guidance' seems to be trying to close off outlets for personal exploration nd expression. Guidance isn't saying "this is exactly what you should be, and this is exactly what you will be." That's brainwashing.
We all agree children should not be allowed to make decisions such as consenting to marriage to adults, etc. but those on the Left are so fixated on pushing the LGBT agendas, they tell us that kids possess the wisdom to understand all their feelings and issues of identity no matter if it conflicts with their biological bodies?
Well, first of all, are you implying that you are ok with gender-neutral bathrooms outside of a school setting? Because you seem to be implying that this problem is unique to children.
And no, people aren't saying that a child will know exactly what they are, what they want to be, how they feel, and so on. But what they are saying is that there isn't one way to exist. The only effect these bathroom laws will have is that they will make people who feel uncomfortable have the opportunity to feel more accepted. And what's the problem with that?
I seldom chastise people who don't respond to my every point in a post. It's when they ignore the main thrust of the post that I mind.
There are many problems with allowing boys(who feel like girls) in girls bathrooms in every public school.
What truly amazes me is the arrogance and total lack of respect from people such as yourself and those on the Left and in the LGBT movement.
The majority of parents have rights to protect their children from things they deem abnormal, unnaturral, dangerous, etc.
We also pay taxes to our schools and have every right to expect protection for our children from being exposed to things we deem as being sexual disorders, abnormal sexual orientations(as with Gay awareness days) etc.
This is why those on the Right are outspoken against activists who would steal our freedoms and right's to decide how our children will be taught in school and the environment they must endure.
It matters not if there are two children in the entire school who have disorders that make them feel like a different sex. WE DON'T TAKE AWAY THE VAST VAST MAJORITY OF PARENT'S RIGHT'S SO SOME DYSFUNCTIONAL CHILD CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT HIMSELF!
Society has rules for the good of the whole, not the one.
Parents don't want their children exposed to abnormal sexual disorders or sexual orientations. I realize that bother's people like you and on the Left because you want to force all Americans to think like you. GET OVER IT!
People like you refuse to allow ANY child in ANY public school to be exposed to a simple prayer at the start of a school day. All we wanted was the freedom of each community school to decide for themselves but you screamed NO WAY! You said we will not allow ANY children to be exposed to a prayer even in communites where the residents and tax payers choose to have a prayer. Those on the Left said NO SCHOOLS ALLOWED TO CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES.
But when it comes to controversial issues of a sexual nature, it is just the opposite. You are all for exposing EVERY child in EVERY pubic school. It is the new age religion of POLITCAL CORRECTNESS that you want programmed into every child's mind.
You say it's not ok to expose a child to a prayer, but it is ok to expose a girl to boys in their bathrooms. But your arrogance goes way beyond the freedoms those on the Right wanted. We only wanted a freedom for each school to decide for themselves if they had a school prayer.
Those on the Left want to tell ALL public schols that they MUST allow boys in girls bathrooms.
Your arrogance is sickening and is what continues the division between Americans.
There are many problems with allowing boys(who feel like girls) in girls bathrooms in every public school.
It's funny, this your response to the 'thrust' of my point, and you didn't list any of those problems. Seriously. What are they?
The rest of your post, and correct me if I'm summarizing it wrong, is claiming that the government should not be able to dictate what schools across the country should and shouldn't be allowed to do.
Well, that's what laws are, bud. Sorry. That's how we legalized interracial marriage, removed segregation in schools, gave women the right to vote, and so on. That's why I'm trying to argue the content of the law, not the process.
I should start by saying that I do not believe in being transgender. We are defined by our genetic code. That said, transpeople have the right to an education.
Cool for you honey that you know all of these pretentious types of fallacy.
Saying people are defined by their genetic code is dumb because in intersecuality female are born with XY chromosomes and male with XX. Sex and gender aren't even the same thing anyway.
Fortunately, my existence does not remotely depend upon your belief. Rest assured, I know everything I need to know about my personal identity; that rather tends to come with being myself. Maybe you should personally exercise that right to education you believe in, instead of worrying about how well I know myself. Oh, and gender identity is just as determined as everything else about us; nice cherry-picking application of evolutionary theory and deterministic philosophy though.
I never claimed that you did. I was merely expressing my indifference to whether you "believe" in the validity of my identity, since you seemed to think your opinion on my identity mattered enough to express it. I could say that I do not believe in being ignorant, but that would not make you informed.
Would you ever say that you do not believe in being a woman, black, poor, disability, etc.? Based on previous interactions, my guess is you would not (at least for some of them). The difference between those groups and my identity is that you do not view mine as valid and equally worthy of genuine respect. I recognize you think you are being accepting, but your narrow tolerance is not actually accepting. If I come off as hostile, it is because I am done listening to people share their opinions about my personal identities like their opinion should matter in the slightest.
News flash, just because some person with disorders thinks he is not who he is, we have psycologists for them. They have mental issues!
Society does not roll over and play idiots just because dysfunctional people tell them to.
We all have a right to say NO.... your weird sexual orientations and gender disorders give you NO RIGHT to force every public school, paid for by tax payers in those communities, to bow to your political correct dysfunction.
Parents DO NOT want their children exposed to weird sexual disorders! PERIOD!
Quit being such arrogant control freaks!
I can not believe how Demorats have become extremists who think they can force every state and school to change their laws. Our states are losing their freedoms to choose how their schools are run by a bunch of Liberal dictators!
Suck it up and try giving people who dissagree the respect to their own rights of not having boys in girls bathrooms!
In order for something to be classified as a 'disorder,' it needs to interfere with someone's ability to function. Having a gender identity different from your birth gender is not that.
Male prisoners have been reported to attempt to hack off their genitals because they felt like women. So... does that interfere with their ability to function?
