Omiscience Negates Free Will So God Cannot Be Real
The Freewill Argument for the Nonexistence of God: Sound?
The Christian God is defined as a personal being who knows everything. According to Christians, personal beings have free will.
In order to have free will, you must have more than one option, each of which is avoidable. This means that before you make a choice, there must be a state of uncertainty during a period of potential: you cannot know the future. Even if you think you can predict your decision, if you claim to have free will, you must admit the potential (if not the desire) to change your mind before the decision is final.
A being who knows everything can have no "state of uncertainty." It knows its choices in advance. This means that it has no potential to avoid its choices, and therefore lacks free will. Since a being that lacks free will is not a personal being, a personal being who knows everything cannot exist.
Therefore, the Christian God does not exist.
- Dan Barker
ummm, ok, yeah, right
Side Score: 15
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God is More Than Omniscient
Side Score: 16
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5
points
I was hoping you would make comments related to the discussion topic here. I banned many of the worst habitual disrupters of discussion. Lukruk is Cauroc, and firnen, and one or two others names. The more I get to know some of these people, the more I think there is nothing I can do but ignore them and keep on going for Jesus. Side: God is More Than Omniscient
This argument against God implies He cannot be responsible for His actions because being omniscient somehow would exclude Him from being able to choose His actions. It's a simplistic concept based on ignorance. That fact that I know what I am going to say here does not mean I have no choice in saying it. God says what He wants to say when He wants to say it, and how in the world could you or Him enjoy yourself if you don't limit yourself in your choices? This kind of irrational reasoning against God always depends on the hypothesis that He is not God. That is always the starting point, and ending point, of this stuff. It's silly, and somehow people buy it and scratch their heads as they try to grasp the emptiness portrayed as something tangible and they say.....hmmmmm, I think that makes me smarter, stronger, and better than God because I feel like I have proved Him to be impotent. Fools dying and saying they don't need to be saved, making suckers out of "intellectuals" who think they can outsmart God and get away with it and not have to be imprisoned in Hell as renegades, reprobates turned against their Creator who would mess up His heaven the same as they mess up the world. Side: ummm, ok, yeah, right
This stuff is so dumb. God does what He wants to do when He wants to do it. This is nothing but an attempt to change God into something you can, in you can believe you have gotten rid of.......God created us of His own free will, and He gave us free will because He made us like Himself. I can't believe people actually get college credit for chewing on a cud like this. This stuff is just plain dumb. This is not talking about God, it's just a fool talking about his own imaginations. God knowing what He is going to do does not mean He has no choice in doing it, that's nonsense. I know that I am going to say 2 plus 2 equals 4, but that never meant I could not have changed my mind and not said it. I had free will from the start to the finish and still do have free will. This is just gobblety gook jibberish when people talk like this as if it's an intelligent argument against God, and then to my amazement a bunch of eggheads will sit around and scratch their heads and say ...hmmmmmm, that sounds very good. Side: ummm, ok, yeah, right
Here is an expansion of the idea that God is unable to choose His actions if He is Omniscient, therefore "free will" and "omniscience" cannot be in the same being. Harvard........ The future is predetermined since god created everything while knowing all that would follow from his creation. So there is no need for 'prediction' if god already knows the future (which, by definition of his nature, he would know the future). There is also no such thing as a 'decision' for a being who already know the the answer in advance. To refute either of these statements suggests that either (1) god does not know everything (which contradicts his nature); or, (2) god does not have control over the future................................. The guy summarizes his argument with "You cannot refute this without proving God is not omniscient, or by proving he does not have control over the future" (paraphrased, of course, but accurate enough.) It's rhetorical nonsense that starts with a false presupposition denying God is OMNIPOTENT!!! God is more than "omniscient". In the OP, the definition of "God" is not the God of the Bible who is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. This god invented and argued against is a god you can confine or eliminate in your imagination, it is not Jesus Christ who is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. By His omnipotence, God can limit his awareness, restrain His omniscience. He also restrains Him omnipotence evidenced by tolerating silly and annoying nonsensical arguments in which the framer flatters itself to be smarter, stronger, and better than their imaginary imposter who they put forward fraudulently calling it "the Christian God". Side: ummm, ok, yeah, right
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This kind of nonsense starts with a god that is less than God. It ignores God's omnipotence by which He is able to limit His omniscience. God exercises His free will for His own pleasure and He has that right the same as He gives that right to everything that lives. Everything that lives has limitations, and the Living God by His own free will can limit His awareness, focus His attention when and how He desires for His own reasons. God did not need to create us with free will as He is love, and as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit has always been full of love and joy. He is not only omniscient as this fool who exercised the best of his vain imagination to imply, but He is omnipotent and omnipresent. By His free will, His omnipotent free will, He can limit or focus his presence and knowledge of things at any time in any place. People who invent arguments against God ALWAYS invent a god who is not God and argue against that god of their imagination, in reality making their own imagination into their own god which they worship by patting themselves on the back and telling themselves they are the superior intellect in the universe. Now ya'll be careful how you express your anger toward me for my simple and strong stand on the truth. I don't mind being called dumb or a fool to a point as I use those terms often for people who think they are better, stronger, or smarter than God....but if you can't do it without profanities and vulgarities, don't be surprised if you get banned. Side: God is More Than Omniscient
The load of gibberish is in the OP. I planned that 8 word sentence, had no moment of uncertainty of what I was going to do in saying it, and yet I said it of my own free will and could have not said it if I chose before I said it. The thinking of the OP is completely irrational, and it depends on God not being Omnipotent. Knowing what we are going to do does not mean we can't chose a different course of action. Knowing everything as God does, does not mean He has to be aware of it all at once. He has the ability to focus His attention however and whenever He chooses, and can focus His attention on more than one place at any given time because He is God and can do whatever He wants to do. There is no sound argument against God. Any attempt at arguing against God beyond the simplistic foolish statement, "there is no God", from every one of them that I have looked at, changes God into a thing less than God. Side: God is More Than Omniscient
Correct, and His knowing what He will do does not mean He has no choice and cannot change His mind and do something differently. The atheist who glorifies his own mind by feeling like he has baffled himself so much that he can believe God is not omnipotent due to His omniscience, and cannot chose His own words and actions.....Dan Barker, the atheist....like so many other atheists....is only fooling himself by arguing against an invented God which he can fit inside his own little mind and then declare it empty, rather than the Living God who we cannot put into a container, not even in the farthest reaches of our imagination. Side: ummm, ok, yeah, right
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