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Our naton has been praying in public buildings since the Constitution was written, think!
Now ask yourself, if our Congress and schools have been saying prayers to start their days since the Constitution was written, why are Democrats so bent on twisting the Constitution to censor any mention of our Christian heritge in public places.
It basically comes down to their goal of transforming America. What must a would be dictator like Government do to control the people? They must first control the people's minds and means of sustanence. To do so they must become Lord of your life. There is no room for two masters and in all their Liberal arrogance, they want to be the one and only master to your thoughts and beliefs. This is why you will never hear Democrats telling the people that faith in God and hard work can help get them through tough times. No, they say GOVERNMENT is one and only answer. Why do you think Obama made that hideous condescending remark of how Ameircans cling to God and Guns?
Americans used to be a proud hard working people who were ashamed of asking for charity from tax payers. Look at them today after 60 years of the Progressive movement. They are not only NOT ashamed of taking charity from others.... THEY DEMAND IT!
We need good honest moral Conservative politicians once again. Other than faith in God, It truly is America's only hope.
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But of course, the founding fathers were right about everything. Clearly, we should never evolve as a society but be ever beholden to what happened 200 years ago. That makes total sense. Also, the irony in referencing mind control while simultaneously defending religion seems to have evaded you. 1
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So let me get this straight, you think sense our culture and ideologies change with the wind, we are suppose to make irrelevant the Constitution? The entire foundation of the Constitution is to keep America free, keep the power in the hands of the people and stop Government from over reaching. That is the reason for the Constitution. Liberals and any other extreme group that comes along are the very reason for the Constitution, keeping our Government from being taken over by radicals. So let me get this straight, you think sense our culture and ideologies change with the wind, we are suppose to make irrelevant the Constitution? No. I think that asserting that we used to do something one way is a terrible basis from which to claim we should continue doing it that way. There is a rather significant difference, though I am not entirely surprised you failed to grasp it. The entire foundation of the Constitution is to keep America free, keep the power in the hands of the people and stop Government from over reaching. Hardly. The founding era had a vested interest in establishing a power structure that largely maintained the status quo. Granted, relative to other nations at the time, the founding era government secured considerably more freedoms for its constituents than others did. However, the founding fathers broadly supported the electoral college expressly due to their distrust of the intelligence of the masses and their fundamental ineptitude at self-rule. Most also sanctioned and established legal legitimacy for slavery and broad disenfranchisement for women and indentured servants... which hardly rings of freedom to me. That is the reason for the Constitution. Liberals and any other extreme group that comes along are the very reason for the Constitution, keeping our Government from being taken over by radicals. Radicals? Please. The common American liberal is hardly radical or extreme in the greater political scope. 1
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The very people you say supported slavery and disenfranchisement for women, wrote a Constitution that was probably the biggest reason for the end of slavery. It supported liberty to ALL people. Do you think the KKK would have written a Constitution that lifted up freedom and Liberty to all Americans? Slavery and widespread disenfranchisement was not held to be incongruous with the original Constitution, as evidenced by the empirical existence of both at the founding of the nation. Even assuming that the Constitution ultimately laid the groundwork that led to abolition and enfranchisement that does not speak to my original point which is that the founding era and its ideologues engaged in practices that fundamentally contradict our conception of the Constitution as we understand it today. More critically, you have entirely overlooked the electoral college which was implemented at our founding and persists today. Its existence is a direct consequence of the ruling authorities wanting to prevent the people from exercising true democratic control over the government, and it persists to this day. 1
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In a world under your philosophy, those who are genetically disposed to think slavery is a good thing could bring it back. I hope you have a clue to what you are saying. Oh let me guess it is now time for you to say you did not mean that. You want to tell us that you still want laws putting bad people away, you just want us all to know it's not their fault. So when ISIS cuts off the heads of people who do not share the same religion, they are just genetically predisposed to external stimulation. Not their fault. SCARY! 1
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He is not entirely off base with respect to how he represents my views on those two matters. I think that every thought and action of every person is determined by our genetics and environmental stimuli. I do not believe in responsibility, although I do support amoral, non-fault accountability. Yes, in my view those who support and practice slavery and those who belong to ISIS do so as a direct consequence of their genetic dispositions and lived experiences. They did not choose to be that way anymore than than anyone else. I do not think it is their fault because I do not believe in fault. I do support faultless, amoral accountability however. In effect, I do not want laws putting "bad" people away because I do not think "bad" people exist. I want laws and responses that are informed by our objective knowledge of the determinants of human behavior, rather than an inherently subjective and arbitrary moral pretense. 1
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I'm so glad the are so few people who actually think as you do. It's Scary. At least you are honest enough to admit how extreme you are while most Liberals refuse to admit it. Your thinking is represented by the Liberal Democrat party but they have not indoctrinated enough people to push it through our laws. Just as with Abortion and gay marriage, it takes decades to twist a people's mind to believe up is down. America used to have the simple intelligence to KNOW that killing an unborn baby was reprehensible and that Homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. But the Left with the power of the media transformed reality. We now have people like you who are the next level of extremists. Your no fault ideology will be the nail in the coffin of what America used to stand for. Just as Obama was still lying and telling us he was against Gay marriage, he moved to the next level when the populace was indoctrinated. Just as Democrats used to be pro life until the Liberal media transformed the people into believing up is down.... and then the Democrat party instantly became pro abortion. More and more Liberals will start coming out of the closet actually supporting your no fault thinking. Scary what a slippery slope will do to a nation. America used to have the simple intelligence to KNOW that killing an unborn baby was reprehensible Not saying I support it, but most people who support abortion do not consider the aborted fetus to have been an "unborn baby" in the first place. Don't ask me why, as I know little of the debate. and that Homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. It's abnormal, yes, but not necessarily unnatural. Homosexuality (or at least, homosexual behavior) is well documented within non-human animals. 1
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LOL, if it were true which it is not, that animals were also homosexual IT WOULD ALSO BE UNNATURAL. What you don't think animals can not have mental disorders or do unnatural things? What on earth do you think most pro abortion people would say? Do you honestly think they would admit they support killing innocent little babies? They are liars! They are totally selfish people who would kill for sake of self. Therefore they had to deny simple reality and call that Baby less than human. Please don't spew any life of mother excuses that no one is denying them. LOL, if it were true which it is not, Why do you believe it's not true? I could link you to several studies showing that this abnormality occurs outside of humans. IT WOULD ALSO BE UNNATURAL. Why, and so what? What on earth do you think most pro abortion people would say? Do you honestly think they would admit they support killing innocent little babies? They are liars! They are totally selfish people who would kill for sake of self. Therefore they had to deny simple reality and call that Baby less than human. Please don't spew any life of mother excuses that no one is denying them. Guess what genius: Not agreeing with every single paranoid rambling that you vomit on the keyboard does not mean I automatically side with the other side. I don't see what the hell it is you're trying to accomplish by basically shouting like a fucking psycho, but it's not doing anything but pissing everyone (even people that agree with you) off. You're not doing anything but wasting bandwidth with these insane rants and one-sided conversations. 2
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So animals being homosexual in nature is unnatural? How can something in nature be unnatural, exactly? And people have already provided a LOT of evidence that it is true, so how can you claim it isn't? And nobody is "pro-abortion", so the liar in this case is you (expecting a ban for calling you out on that :P). They do not believe, for the most part at least, that it is "killing". 1
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If you have the time to educate yourself (and since these are your firm beliefs, they really should be educated) you should know that homosexual behavior has been observed in animals for years. Here is a recent article about it by the bbc: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/ You can also refer to this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listofanimalsdisplayinghomosexual_behavior If you don't trust wikipedia, check the sources they site. You also call homosexuality a mental disorder. Well, it actually isn't. While it used to be considered one, homosexuality is currently classified as a natural variation of human sexuality. This was classified by people who have studied it, and done their research, which you clearly have not. What is your reasoning for why homosexuality is unnatural? Because the Bible said so? Or because your parents said so? Or because it's different from what you are? And (another) counter to abortion argument: What do you say to the woman who got raped and who will die if she gives birth. Do you give her an abortion or not? 1
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Wow, you are flirting with an ignore to be so lame as to mention life of mother abortions? GET REAL! I've only told you liberals a thousand times NO ONE IS TRYING TO DENY LIFE OF MOTHER ABORTIONS AND YOU STILL BRING IT UP! This is because you have no excuse for your inhumanity. So tell me when we are talking about late term abortions, that mostly only only Democrats support, that when a woman gets raped, she is going to wait to late trimesters to get an abortion? I am against rape abortions because the Baby dose not care who his father is, he has a right to life. The mother can adopt out the Baby if she wants. It matters not because Pro life people like myself would compromise in a HEARTBEAT to only allow extreme cases of abortions. The Democrat party would have a coronary!!!!! They have never compromised and always fight for abortions on demand at any stage for any reason! The vast vast vast vast amount of abortions are done by perfectly healthy mothers with perfectly healthy Babies and for you to bring up these extreme cases makes you a waste of my time. I could care less when Liberals twist our long standing findings on Homosexuality to call it natural. That's no different than telling us the Constitutional privacy clause says it's ok to kill Babies. Do Liberals think they are actually fooling anyone with half a brain? They are liars! They will say or do anything to get their agendas passed. If homosexuality were true in nature, it would be in absolutely EVERY species, not just a few birds who supposedly are Gay. They are not Gay! 2
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"They have never compromised and always fight for abortions on demand at any stage for any reason! " Nope, not when it comes to late term. "I could care less when Liberals twist our long standing findings on Homosexuality to call it natural" You have been given scientific evidence of homosexuality in nature. The only person twisting it is you "If homosexuality were true in nature, it would be in absolutely EVERY species, not just a few birds who supposedly are Gay. They are not Gay!" If feathers were true in nature, they would be in absolutely EVERY species, not just in a few birds! If scales were true in nature, they would be in absolutely EVERY species, not just in a few reptiles. Do you see the problem with that argument of yours? 1
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Wow, you are flirting with an ignore to be so lame as to mention life of mother abortions? GET REAL! I've only told you liberals a thousand times NO ONE IS TRYING TO DENY LIFE OF MOTHER ABORTIONS AND YOU STILL BRING IT UP! This is because you have no excuse for your inhumanity. It's not just about life or death situations. If a mother was in a situation where she was not emotionally comfortable to have a baby, or would be financially ruined, or even just feared the risk of giving birth (even if she's healthy, giving birth is dangerous!) you would deny her that right. That's the problem. So tell me when we are talking about late term abortions, that mostly only only Democrats support, that when a woman gets raped, she is going to wait to late trimesters to get an abortion? First of all, you continue to make assumptions that because some democrats or liberals support something, all do. That is false. You then bias yourself against all democrats or liberal ideas, and then are unable to listen to other ideas. And to address your other point, there are HUNDREDS of reasons why a woman could wait. She could learn new information about her health or risks she is at. She could be building up the nerve. She could change her mind (people do that, it's a difficult choice.) I am against rape abortions because the Baby dose not care who his father is, he has a right to life. Ok, so I too am against the killing of babies. But the baby can't form opinions, memories, or have an impact. You know who else has a right to their life? The mother. Have you ever been raped? If not, you canNOT claim you know what a victim goes through. I do not claim this, but instead of deciding what they need to do for them, I have listened to what they have to say. A person who has been raped is being forced to give up 9 months of her life to carry a child, the pain of childbirth, years of struggle of raising a child or the pain of having to give a child away. They have already suffered the great pain of being violated, and they are suffering further in having to choose to have an abortion. Why do you want to increase this pain? You know who doesn't preach what you are saying? Women who have been raped and impregnated. The mother can adopt out the Baby if she wants. The danger is not just about raising a child. There are hundreds of risks and responsibilities that come along with birthing a child. There are health issues, and why can't a mother simply not want to let her child be raised by someone else, and isn't ready to raise them herself? I could go on, but I doubt you will listen because you aren't willing to actually analyze situations for the reasons behind them. You simply think it's easy. Are you a woman who is pregnant but not ready to have a child? No? Then listen to what they argue. You don't get to decide what they want to do. It matters not because Pro life people like myself would compromise in a HEARTBEAT to only allow extreme cases of abortions. The Democrat party would have a coronary!!!!! They have never compromised and always fight for abortions on demand at any stage for any reason! Really. Then why don't they propose something like this? If they truly believed this, they would suggest this idea. And that in itself adds a whole slew of problems. How do you decide what is an "extreme case?" Who gets to decide that? Is it the church? Is it different for a Christian and an atheist? The vast vast vast vast amount of abortions are done by perfectly healthy mothers with perfectly healthy Babies and for you to bring up these extreme cases makes you a waste of my time. Wait, so are extreme cases irrelevant? You continue to do this. Whenever you are presented with a case that disagrees with your thinking but is logical, you write it off as "extreme" or ask "why we always bring it up." That's not an answer, that is avoidance. I could care less when Liberals twist our long standing findings on Homosexuality to call it natural. Please provide these "long standing findings" and explain why they disagree with what more modern science has found. The thing about science is that it is open to change, as the goal is to always learn more. If you learn something new that invalidates the past information, that INVALIDATES THE PAST INFORMATION. So please give an example. Also, the scientists who agree that homosexuality is natural are not necessarily liberal. Science is objective (as it comes from fact) and so if people find new information that disagrees with your beliefs, that doesn't mean they are liberal or conservative, it just means they are using the facts. That's no different than telling us the Constitutional privacy clause says it's ok to kill Babies. The primary difference here is that the argument that homosexuality is natural comes from further research, while claiming that a clause that is already in existence means something else would be a reinterpretation. This is not reinterpreting the same data, it is coming to a new conclusion based on new data. Is that wrong? Do Liberals think they are actually fooling anyone with half a brain? They are liars! They will say or do anything to get their agendas passed. Wait, so if liberals don't think what they are saying is true, what is this dreaded "agenda?" What do they gain by asking for equality and for protection of victims and for trying to protect the environment? What is there to gain? Other than helping 99% of the population. If homosexuality were true in nature, it would be in absolutely EVERY species, not just a few birds who supposedly are Gay. They are not Gay! First of all, did YOU do the research? Because you canNOT make claims like this without even knowing the data. In fact, over 1500 species have been identified with homosexual behavior. (http://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/ Again, when it's non-scientists vs scientists, and the topic is science, the scientists win. That is impossible to deny. -1
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Well, time to stop wasting my time with liars who talk about extreme cases to excuse their inhumanity and then FINALLY admit they are for all abortions like i already knew. It's a waste of time talking to Liberals. I said ALL animals would have homosexuals in their species, not just 1500 species which is a complete lie anyways. No response, what a shock. 1
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As I have already told you, that argument doesn't make sense. That's like saying feathers are not natural because they don't exist in all species. Or scales aren't natural because they don't exist in all species. If something exists IN NATURE, it is NATURAL. That's really all there is to it. 1
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So even if you won't respond to me, I will continue to respond to you because you still have failed to effectively respond to most of my arguments. Do you have proof that ALL animals don't have "homosexuals in their species"? I provided a viable source giving you a plethora of evidence of homosexuality appearing in nature. There is no proof that all animals do not exhibit homosexual tendencies; we have not researched every species. However, the 1500+ case studies we have found go against your claim. And for something to be "natural," why does every species have to follow it? There are some bacteria's that reproduce asexually. Not every species does that. So reproduction cannot be natural at all? And only humans practice religion. Does that make religion unnatural? And construction? And the language we speak? And wearing clothing? And showing the exact emotions we espouse? Not every animal in the animal kingdom laughs when they find things funny, or cry when they find things sad. Does that make laughter and sadness unnatural? This idea is preposterous. Also, you are using the word "natural." If something appears in nature, no matter in what quantity, does that not make it natural? If you are going to make a distinction, unnatural things are more along the lines of man-made concepts and objects, such as houses, tools, religion, marriage, and so on. You also discredited my source without reading it. You can't claim something is a complete lie if you are completely uneducated about it. Also, you can't continue to dismiss things just because they are extreme cases. You can't say "this is my belief, and it's right all the time" and then when presented with something that conflicts with that belief call it an "extreme case." That doesn't invalidate the case. Extreme cases happen. 1
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Only humans choose weird fetishes and unnatural acts. That's what makes humans different from animals. We have conscious thought and choices. Animals live by how they are built to live. Do you think some biased study on animal homosexuality is worth the paper it's written on? Just because they found some geese paired up together MEANS NOTHING. It proves absolutely nothing. How could you know they never have sex with the opposite sex. I'm waiting for the video for when a male Geese mates with another male geese as Gays do. Animals mate when they are suppose to mate, it has nothing to do with sexual desires and weird sex! You must be Gay to grasp at such nonsense. 1
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"Only humans choose weird fetishes and unnatural acts. " Well by definition only humans do anything unnatural, like you on your computer. As for weird fetishes, there are necrophiliac animals out there (Rhinella proboscidea, for example). "That's what makes humans different from animals. " We are a part of the kingdom animalia, so we are animals. "We have conscious thought and choices. " We also have reflexes and reactions, which are not "choices". Sexual orientation is one of them. "Do you think some biased study on animal homosexuality is worth the paper it's written on" You do not have any evidence that they are biased or scientifically unsound, you just want science to adhere to your beliefs, instead of changing your beliefs to real world evidence. " Just because they found some geese paired up together MEANS NOTHING. It proves absolutely nothing." Actually, it proves that long term, monogamous homosexuality exists in nature. Ignoring that won't change anything. " How could you know they never have sex with the opposite sex. " Because that is the entire point of long term studies, some of which you have been provided multiple times. "I'm waiting for the video for when a male Geese mates with another male geese as Gays do" So first you wanted examples. Then you wanted evidence of the examples. Now you want a video. You are being incredibly dishonest. You don't actually WANT proof. You never look at any evidence given to you, you just dismiss it and call it biased without any evidence. Oh, and by the way, Dolphins engage in gang-rape. 1
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"At least you are honest enough to admit how extreme you are while most Liberals refuse to admit it" Most liberals happily admit it. You are referring to people who aren't liberal. " and that Homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. " You have been provided so much evidence that homosexuality is natural. Why do you ignore that? "We now have people like you who are the next level of extremists. Your no fault ideology will be the nail in the coffin of what America used to stand for." He believes in a form of "fault", albeit a strange one. "Just as Obama was still lying and telling us he was against Gay marriage, he moved to the next level when the populace was indoctrinated." Are you claiming that Obama "indoctrinated" the country into supporting same-sex marriage, and if so, how? " Just as Democrats used to be pro life until the Liberal media transformed the people into believing up is down" How did the media do this? "More and more Liberals will start coming out of the closet actually supporting your no fault thinking. Scary what a slippery slope will do to a nation. " His beliefs are so far in the minority that they are negligible. 2
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Ok, so you claim that it takes decades to twist a people's mind to believe up is down. Why are you so opposed to change? Do you think people of the past can't have been wrong? Why is gay marriage wrong? Answer that please, I am willing to listen. If you provide me with an argument that makes sense that I can't counter, my opinion will change. You also stated that America used to have the simple intelligence to KNOW that killing an unborn baby was reprehensible and that Homosexuality is unnatural and abnormal. America also used to have the simple intelligence that blacks were second citizens. And that women of course didn't have the ability to think. And so on and so on. Just because something was believed in the past DOES NOT make it fast. People's opinions change based on new information and more careful thought, which shows people being reasonable. Just as Obama was still lying and telling us he was against Gay marriage. When did Obama say this? You also mentioned a no fault ideology a couple times. Can you explain this more, and why it's bad? The main question I want you to answer is why change is inherently bad. Do you think we should still have slaves? Do you think we should keep women out of the workforce? Because your arguments back up those claims in the exact same way they back up your claims against homosexuality and abortion. 1
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Is that all Liberals have? To constantly bring up ancient history when Democrats supported Slavery and the Republican party and Christians wanted to end slavery? Is that your only argument against every subject? Of course there have been terrible things throughout history where people did terrible things. It was usually true Christians who tried to stop the inhumanity and is why it is no surprise that Christians and Conservatives are now trying to protect the right of life of unborn babies. Abortion is TODAY'S INHUMANITY as was slavery back then. I agree with you that people should always be trying to improve our world and that good change is wonderful. With the Liberal movement, came Abortion on demand at any stage. THAT IS NOT GOOD CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's going backwards to a time when slavery of a particular group of people was allowed. In this case it's not slavery, it's a holocaust. Democrats told us all they would never force others to pay for abortions. LIE! This is the change that we fight against. The arrogance to not only make it legal to kill Babies but THEY FORCE US ALL TO PAY FOR IT! With the Liberal movement came censorship of our Christian heritage and religious freedoms when a Government censors the right of a community to choose a prayer in their schools even though no child is ever being forced to pray along. Liberals twisted the Constitution with the lie of separation of church and state. The constitution says Government will establish no religion. A community's free choice to have a prayer or not establishes NOTHING! Liberals also fought to censor our religious holidays in public schools. They are making it against the law to mention our Christian heritage in public. THAT IS HIDEOUS CHANGE. It takes our freedoms from us guaranteed in the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about freedom from religion. In the Liberal world they say we should all give up our freedoms of speech so as not to offend the one, unless of course the offended ones are Christians, then it is ok. With the Liberal movement Government is now trying to take our guns! And after decades of conditioning who knows if these fools will succeed. Why is it Liberals NEVER worry bout the marriage right's for men who want 20 wives? Why do Gays only get your attention? There are all kinds of weird groups out there with no one fighting for their rights. I could answer that question because i know the answer. Homosexuality is a sin in the Christian faith and therefore, Liberals had to push the Gay agenda because Liberals are truly at war with our religious heritage and freedoms. You do realize that Gay activists have sued Christian churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers do you not? That in a nutshell is the answer to your question of why we fight the Homosexual movement. Their goal is to force us all to accept their lifestyle as normal and force our faith to change and accept it. We already have false Churches who have Gay pastors which preaches a religion contrary to our biblical faith. Our nation fought and died for the freedoms we enjoy and now Liberals are trying to transform America and take us back to a time of a corrupt Government controlling our lives as they see fit. I mentioned no fault ideology because this is where Liberals are taking us. A few examples.... it's not your fault if you sleep around creating baby after baby and expecting others to pay to support you and support your irresponsibility. There is no Liberal agenda to go after the dead beat fathers who walk away from their responsibilities. Liberals want the Government raising the family and thereby securing their votes. It's not your fault if you take illegal drugs and live off the tax payers after screwing up your life. It's not your fault if you buy a house you can not afford, the tax payers will bail you out. It's not your fault if you take out school loans and not pay them back, tax payers will bail you out. I could go on and on but the simple truth is that Democrats and Liberals pander to their voting blocks of low income people who chose to screw up their lives. They put no consequences on behavior when handing out our money. HENCE no fault. Democrats take from the the responsible middle class who ask for nothing from tax payers and give to those who will vote for them. It is buying votes! 1
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"Is that all Liberals have? To constantly bring up ancient history when Democrats supported Slavery and the Republican party and Christians wanted to end slavery? Is that your only argument against every subject?" If you ignore history, you are doomed to repeat it. "Of course there have been terrible things throughout history where people did terrible things. It was usually true Christians who tried to stop the inhumanity and is why it is no surprise that Christians and Conservatives are now trying to protect the right of life of unborn babies. Abortion is TODAY'S INHUMANITY as was slavery back then." Christians made up the entirety of both sides of slavery, in support and opposition. "With the Liberal movement, came Abortion on demand at any stage. THAT IS NOT GOOD CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's going backwards to a time when slavery of a particular group of people was allowed. In this case it's not slavery, it's a holocaust. Democrats told us all they would never force others to pay for abortions. LIE! This is the change that we fight against. The arrogance to not only make it legal to kill Babies but THEY FORCE US ALL TO PAY FOR IT!" Can you explain how, with the Hyde Amendment, you are still forced to pay for abortions? "With the Liberal movement came censorship of our Christian heritage and religious freedoms when a Government censors the right of a community to choose a prayer in their schools even though no child is ever being forced to pray along." You want to force a captive audience to be a part of a religious ceremony. That is not freedom, that is authoritarian. That is the antithesis of freedom, and it has nothing to do with censorship. It is downright evil. " Liberals twisted the Constitution with the lie of separation of church and state. The constitution says Government will establish no religion" Liberal and Conservative courts have determined that you are wrong, many, many times. ". A community's free choice to have a prayer or not establishes NOTHING! Liberals also fought to censor our religious holidays in public schools. They are making it against the law to mention our Christian heritage in public. THAT IS HIDEOUS CHANGE." Communities are not prevented from praying, they are simply preventing from forcing people to pay for religious symbols, or forcing captive audiences to be subject to religious ceremonies. That is positive change. That is ACTUAL freedom. ". It takes our freedoms from us guaranteed in the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about freedom from religion. " Conservative and Liberal courts have determined that is exactly what the Establishment Clause says. "In the Liberal world they say we should all give up our freedoms of speech so as not to offend the one, unless of course the offended ones are Christians, then it is ok.' There is no evidence to support that claim. "With the Liberal movement Government is now trying to take our guns! And after decades of conditioning who knows if these fools will succeed." Luckily, they won't. They have no ability to remove the 2nd amendment, and so long as it exists, their attempts will fail. "Why is it Liberals NEVER worry bout the marriage right's for men who want 20 wives? " Many do, but that is not an equal protections or due process issue, so it gets different attention. " Homosexuality is a sin in the Christian faith and therefore, Liberals had to push the Gay agenda because Liberals are truly at war with our religious heritage and freedoms. " Nice try, but most Liberals are Christians that simply hold opinions that differ from yours. Nobody is attacking you, and Christians hold the overwhelming majority of all political power in this country. Homosexuals deserve their Constitutional rights, even if you want to deny them their freedom. " You do realize that Gay activists have sued Christian churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers do you not?" And they will fail, as they should. :" That in a nutshell is the answer to your question of why we fight the Homosexual movement" Pointing to an incredibly small number of extreme examples as an excuse to deny American citizens their constitutional rights makes no sense. " Their goal is to force us all to accept their lifestyle as normal and force our faith to change and accept it. We already have false Churches who have Gay pastors which preaches a religion contrary to our biblical faith." No, their goal is to gain their Constitutional and civil rights and freedoms. "Our nation fought and died for the freedoms we enjoy and now Liberals are trying to transform America and take us back to a time of a corrupt Government controlling our lives as they see fit." You just listed an issue in which Liberals are fighting for freedoms and liberties that you are trying to deny through corrupt Big government attempting to control their lives as you see fit. "I mentioned no fault ideology because this is where Liberals are taking us. A few examples.... it's not your fault if you sleep around creating baby after baby and expecting others to pay to support you and support your irresponsibility. There is no Liberal agenda to go after the dead beat fathers who walk away from their responsibilities. Liberals want the Government raising the family and thereby securing their votes" That example doesn't play out. Trying to help support those children to decrease the odds of them falling into abject poverty does not mean that no fault is placed upon the parents. "It's not your fault if you take illegal drugs and live off the tax payers after screwing up your life." Nobody says that the drug user is not at fault, people just recognize that countries around the world that spend money on rehabilitation see positive results. To deny that is to deny reality. "It's not your fault if you buy a house you can not afford, the tax payers will bail you out." Of course they are at fault, but so are those that lied and misled them into thinking they could afford it. Fault lies with both parties. "It's not your fault if you take out school loans and not pay them back, tax payers will bail you out." Can you point to anyone actually saying that? I see plenty of people saying that we shouldn't make money off of student loans, because we shouldn't. "I could go on and on but the simple truth is that Democrats and Liberals pander to their voting blocks of low income people who chose to screw up their lives" Nope. " They put no consequences on behavior when handing out our money. HENCE no fault." Nope "emocrats take from the the responsible middle class who ask for nothing from tax payers and give to those who will vote for them. It is buying votes!" Then why does any middle class voter vote Democrat? Or any rich voter? Because there are plenty of both. Go ahead, ban me for disagreeing with you :P 1
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Ok. So you have not been responding to many of my points, which makes me think you don't have arguments there. So, I will thoughtfully respond to every single word you wrote. I hope you follow suit. Note: I lost some energy at the end because I was getting tired, but I stand by the points here. Is that all Liberals have? To constantly bring up ancient history when Democrats supported Slavery and the Republican party and Christians wanted to end slavery? Is that your only argument against every subject? I'll stop bringing it up when you give me a reason that it's not valid, which you have yet to do. Saying "You keep bringing this up" and never responding to it does not invalidate the point. Of course there have been terrible things throughout history where people did terrible things. Right… so the Constitution is included in that? Because the Constitution protected these terrible things. But wait, we have to maintain the values of the Constitution when it was created. So we should take part in these terrible things. You are being incredibly hypocritical here. How is this not what you're saying? It was usually true Christians who tried to stop the inhumanity What defines a "true Christian?" Just, someone who is nice? Or someone who believes in Christ? Or is it someone who follows all the teachings of the Bible. The bible asks for killing, bloodiness, and has several discrepancies, so it can't be that. And why does it have to be through Christ? Why can't it just be people who examine things objectively and try to form their own opinions of what is right and wrong? Why do we need some magical book to teach us? Are humans that worthless? Citing the Bible is dangerous, because it removes analysis. Who do you trust more, the person who blindly believes whatever some book tells them, or the person who thinks about topics and formulates their own opinion. Just doing what you're told means you can't ever know for sure if what you're doing is logical, on a personal level. Think about it. Do you, personally, really think homosexuality is wrong, or is it just because people have told you it is. If it's the former, why do you think this? I'm genuinely curious. And if it's the latter, why do you trust them? And please give me an answer that's not "well they said it was God and God said so." ...and is why it is no surprise that Christians and Conservatives are now trying to protect the right of life of unborn babies. Abortion is TODAY'S INHUMANITY as was slavery back then. A couple things here… First of all, do you think abortion is the ONLY issue of today's inhumanity? So… there are no other issues worth discussing. Everything else is perfect. In fact, we should stop working on medicine. And stop protecting rape victims and helping the families that suffer crimes. Actually, if we stopped abortions, the country would be perfect, right? There are no other issues. Secondly, abortion is not inhumane. I will try to explain my reasoning here (and yes, I'm using some outside sources to put this list together, but that doesn't invalidate the points.): a) A fetus is not equal to a child because it cannot survive on it's own. It's dependent upon it's mother for life, and as such is not it's own, independent creature. b)Even if a fetus was alive, the “right to life” doesn’t imply a right to use somebody else’s body. If a mother is in danger due to pregnancy, it is the fetus that is endangering her life. If you have to choose between a person who is already living and has made an impact on the world and someone who has not, who do you pick? c) A “right to life” is a right to not have somebody else’s will imposed upon your body. Do women not have this right as well? How does your argument not apply to the mother? d) The root cause of abortions is unintended pregnancy, whether through rape or other reasons. Is that the woman's fault? If this creates a danger on the woman's physical, financial, or emotional well being, why does the fetus come first? e) There will always be situations where it is necessary for a woman to have an abortion, whether you like it or not. By banning abortions, you force these women to go to unsafe and illegal methods, endangering themselves and their child to even further lengths than before. When treated properly, abortions are actually one of the safest operations in the world. The death rate of a safe abortion is 13X less than the death rate of giving birth. I agree with you that people should always be trying to improve our world and that good change is wonderful. So why do you claim that nothing should change in the Constitution?! You say that where we are now is perfect, and that wanting to change things makes us unreasonable or weak, but how stupid is that idea! If we accept that we have been wrong in the past, shouldn't that inspire us to continue examining and changing things that are broken? Women still make less money than men for the same amount of work. Is that not an issue to address? Blacks with the same credentials as whites get hired less often. But I guess we fixed that already. People are being denied work and financial stability due to their sexual orientation, which they are born with. But there is nothing to fix there, because some book that you read says that those people should be killed. With the Liberal movement, came Abortion on demand at any stage. THAT IS NOT GOOD CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! First of all, you are making broad generalizations here that I would like to clear up. Not every person with liberal views "demands" abortion. Also, most will not fully support abortion at a late stage. However, what they DO support is that the option should be available, as the fetus's survival is solely dependent on the mother, and as such, the mother's choice comes first. Also, you mention good change, or rather, GOOD CHANGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who gets to decide what that is? Clearly, not everyone thinks it's good, because someone decided that how it is now is good. Change comes about because opinions have, surprise surprise, changed. To say it is "good change" doesn't argue anything other than "it's that way because I think it is and I said so." It's going backwards to a time when slavery of a particular group of people was allowed. How is abortion equivalent to slavery? Also, abortions were never something that was legal and then made illegal, so your metaphor doesn't make any sense. Abortions were illegal for a very long time, and only began to become legalized in the 60s and 70s. In this case it's not slavery, it's a holocaust. The definition of holocaust is: destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war. That in and of itself does not imply a negative connotation. The word itself does due to world war 2, but destruction itself is not inherently bad. For example, destruction of Cancer, or AIDS, or toxins could technically also be called a "holocaust" but as destruction of these things is beneficial to those suffering harm from it, it's not a bad thing. Democrats told us all they would never force others to pay for abortions. LIE! This is the change that we fight against. When did they ever say that. Also, a few people do not necessarily represent the opinions of the group. ALSO, opinions of a group or political party do not always remain the same over time because of the reasons i've already said… people have brains, and they use them to think. Back in the mid 1800s, the Republican party was very liberal. That is obviously not the case today. So I guess that THAT change is the change that we should fight against? Ok! So go and rally the Republican party to be more liberal, just as it was before everything was ruined by change. The arrogance to not only make it legal to kill Babies but THEY FORCE US ALL TO PAY FOR IT! I already made my pro-choice arguments mostly, but if you want even more, here is a logical analysis (I'm sure you won't read it, but just in case…) http:// And then the problem of paying for things. By that rationale, America also shouldn’t have a military, since that’s funded by taxes, and some taxpayers find American foreign policy morally disagreeable. And it shouldn't send money to schools, because there are some Americans who think everyone should be home schooled. And so on and so on. Where taxpayer money goes is not a reflection of what each individual wants. With the Liberal movement came censorship of our Christian heritage and religious freedoms when a Government censors the right of a community to choose a prayer in their schools even though no child is ever being forced to pray along. There is nothing wrong with Christian heritage. However, the fact that it is prevalent in our society does NOT mean it can be enforced into every institution. Going back to the argument you just made about forcing people to pay for abortions, I know that I personally would not want my money going to a school that promoted Christianity primarily. Exact same argument. And I know you say that it's optional, but here's why that doesn't work. First of all, by having a single religion present, even if a majority of people follow that religion, it puts pressure and discomfort upon and alienates those who do not participate. Even if a community decides that a prayer should be present in a school, that is unfair to the one atheist who is present. If you want to dictate a person's lifestyle in a school, do it in a private school. You don't have the right to impose religion like this. The Constitution gives a freedom of religion, not a freedom to impose your religion and only your religion on others. Would you be comfortable if your child went to a school where the prayer every day was an atheist text? Or a Muslim prayer? Seriously, would you be ok with that? Liberals twisted the Constitution with the lie of separation of church and state. Do you not see the flaw in letting the Church control the law? If you base your laws off of texts from the past, no matter how right you think they are, you REMOVE ANY HOPE OF IMPROVEMENT. The Bible asks for slavary, murder, and general inequality, and is full of hundreds of clauses that are outdated. If we don't keep a separation here, we will end up with uneducated laws that are created without true thoughtfulness. What is good about the lack of a separation in church and state? The constitution says Government will establish no religion. A community's free choice to have a prayer or not establishes NOTHING! The problem is a community is not necessarily unanimous. If even ONE person is even questioning that religion, they immediately lose their own right to religion as they are essentially peer pressured into it. It also removes children's ability to figure out religion for themselves. If the community says they MUST be Christian and at school EVERYONE around them is saying a prayer, how can they think for themselves? Just because you believe something doesn't give you the right to present it as fact, and pretending that a child would have a "choice" to not be Christian in that situation is extremely ignorant. A freedom of religion means that information should be presented without bias, so that people are truly free to find religion for themselves. (Of course parents can teach their children religion, I'm not saying that's wrong. But to have a societal message that only one religion is correct is stifling to free speech.) Liberals also fought to censor our religious holidays in public schools. They are making it against the law to mention our Christian heritage in public. Please. There is a difference in denying your heritage and denying your right to get off school for holidays. By this argument, everyone of every religion should get off for every holiday they have with no penalty, right? Does that sound like it would work? By this argument, you are also saying that everyone who is NOT getting their holiday's off is being censored, as it is "against the law to mention their heritage in public." Is that really what's happening? If so, we need to make some major changes, and fast! Thanks for pointing out this issue. Which do you suggest. Making it equal, by not allowing any days off for holidays, or letting every day off for every holiday? Or do only the Christians get to have heritage because they are a superior race? THAT IS HIDEOUS CHANGE. See previous argument about types of change. It takes our freedoms from us guaranteed in the Constitution. The Constitution says nothing about freedom from religion. Wait, so what freedoms do you think you deserve in the Constitution. The freedom to impose your views on others without any choice on their side? To deny people the right to stay away from Christianity, if that's what they want? To control the days the country operates in schools and businesses based solely on your own personal religion? To deny women a right to their personal health based on what you believe? To deny gays a right to marriage because of what YOU believe? Do you really think that by imposing your religion on others it's not taking away from the religious freedom of others? In the Liberal world they say we should all give up our freedoms of speech so as not to offend the one, unless of course the offended ones are Christians, then it is ok. I don't know where you get this idea, but you are clearly either very poorly informed, or don't' care enough to actually study the arguments against you. The arguments here are not about being offensive, they are about protecting the rights of those who disagree with you. And the same argument can be said about you! Do you care about offending non-Christians? Or is your worry protecting those who agree with you? With the Liberal movement Government is now trying to take our guns! And after decades of conditioning who knows if these fools will succeed. The reason for removal of guns has to do with safety. There are an obscene quantity of cases of gun violence in America, especially compared to foreign nations with gun control. How will denying you the right to a deadly weapon deny you of your rights? You don't have access to tanks, or nuclear bombs, or deadly chemicals, or so many other deadly things, why should a gun be any different. You talk about "decades of conditioning." How is that different than the millennia of conditioning brought on by Christianity? You have had much more "conditioning" than the past few years. You think that any change is bad due to the same "conditioning" you just accused of Liberals. Why is it Liberals NEVER worry bout the marriage right's for men who want 20 wives? Why do Gays only get your attention? There are several reasons for this. Primarily, it's about the impact on others. If two gay men get married, it affects only them. Society does not crumble, and two perfectly functioning members of society get the same rights as the rest of society. There are a couple reasons why polygamy does not fall into the same category. First of all, it is human nature. The reason why two people fall in love is not random. It avoids jealously, and promotes faithfulness, all qualities that (by today's values) are 'good.' I dare you to find multiple situations where polygamy has worked out for the best for all members involved. In regards to gay marriage, however, there is an endless stream of examples. There are all kinds of weird groups out there with no one fighting for their rights. Why does this deny those people their rights? If you truly think there are people out there who are wronged, then you SHOULD fight for their rights because that's what people do. This in no way invalidates any point that has ever been made for gay marriage. Are you saying that if there are lots of things that people can see as wrong, they are all ok? I could answer that question because i know the answer. Homosexuality is a sin in the Christian faith and therefore, Liberals had to push the Gay agenda because Liberals are truly at war with our religious heritage and freedoms. There definitely is a reason there is so much conflict between the groups, but that does not mean that Liberals are "at war" with Christianity. There are plenty of Liberal Christians. I think the struggle comes more from the right, when liberal ideas, which have been created with analysis of the changing times, conflict with right-wing ideas, which were set in stone thousands of years ago. Think about it like this: What if something that the conservatives believed was wrong. If a person analyses it and comes to that conclusion, are they 'warring' with the conservatives? I don't think so. The views of Liberals have come from analysis of what we see as the flaws of today's society, and the struggle comes from the conservative refusal to change. You do realize that Gay activists have sued Christian churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers do you not? That in a nutshell is the answer to your question of why we fight the Homosexual movement. I think you've mentioned this before and it is my guess that you are presenting this in a slightly biased way. Can you provide me with a link to the story? I'd like to learn more before I respond. Their goal is to force us all to accept their lifestyle as normal and force our faith to change and accept it. That is not what non-Christian liberals are pushing for. You are asking for Christianity to be the dominant religion, and be allowed to be present in all aspects of every day life. That is what is being fought, as that restricts the freedom of religion by imposing only one religion onto the public. A freedom of religion implies that ALL religions should be free to behave as they want, and they shouldn't have to fight Christianity for a place in society. The fight against Christianity is to provide equality for all religions, not to smother it. Also, can you really make the argument that Christianity can ever be anything other than the most prominent religion, just due to numbers? By reducing the impact you have on daily lives, you are not hurting those who are already Christian and the Christian faith will not be weakened, but the 1st amendment right for all religions will be preserved. We already have false Churches who have Gay pastors which preaches a religion contrary to our biblical faith. So anyone who goes against anything in the Bible is a "false" Christian or a "false" Church? So any church with a pastor who has ever cheated on their spouse is a "false Church." So is any church with a pastor who had sex before marriage. Or ever mastrubated. Or ever wore clothes with more than one fabric. Or ever did any of the completely ridiculous commands in the Bible. I guess there aren't any "true" churches. I guess Christianity is dead. Our nation fought and died for the freedoms we enjoy and now Liberals are trying to transform America and take us back to a time of a corrupt Government controlling our lives as they see fit. How is what you are asking for any different than controlling our lives as you see fit! You want schools and businesses to have Christian holiday's off. You want schools to provide time for prayer. You want to DENY people rights because it disagrees with YOUR RELIGION. Liberals are asking for the opposite. The request is to remove religious bias, not providing special opportunities for those who are Christian. And giving everyone equal rights instead of trying to withhold opportunities for those who disagree with your faith. I mentioned no fault ideology because this is where Liberals are taking us. A few examples.... it's not your fault if you sleep around creating baby after baby and expecting others to pay to support you and support your irresponsibility. First of all, this is very pressing for me, how is a "no fault" ideology any different than religion. It's not your fault if you sin because Satan made you do it. It's not your fault if you sin because you can just ask Jesus to forgive you and it won't matter. None of your actions have any real impact. And how is this particular claim (removing blame from someone with many children) supported by liberal ideology? And how do you account for victim-blaming, saying that it IS the fault of the rape victim. Do you believe that to be true? Because if so, that is disgusting of you. It's not your fault if you take illegal drugs and live off the tax payers after screwing up your life. So wait, who is it who is trying to live off of the poor? That sounds a lot more like your party to me. Also, no liberal is suggesting that those who break the law are not at fault. It's not your fault if you buy a house you can not afford, the tax payers will bail you out. No one suggests this either. What may be argued is that a government should protect it's citizens. If there is surplus money, why not give it to those in need. Isn't that one of the values of Christianity? It's not your fault if you take out school loans and not pay them back, tax payers will bail you out. Same argument. I could go on and on but the simple truth is that Democrats and Liberals pander to their voting blocks of low income people who chose to screw up their lives. Here's the thing… those statistics about the 1% and 99% aren't wrong. Who should the country focus on. 1% of it's people who fall into one category, or 99% of it's people who fall into another? They put no consequences on behavior when handing out our money. HENCE no fault. It's not about putting no consequences on the behavior. It's about helping citizens deal with these consequences instead of focusing on those who don't need the help. Why help the rich get richer when there are millions more dying and starving? Democrats take from the the responsible middle class who ask for nothing from tax payers and give to those who will vote for them. It is buying votes! People vote for the people who are going to be best for them. By pandering to a majority of America, Democrats aren't "buying votes" they are representing the needs of the majority. 1
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Ok, I'm amazed I'm even responding to your twisting of everything I said so this might be my last response to you the typical Liberal saying the EXACT same thing as every other Liberal. Talk about indoctrination! You say..."Right… so the Constitution is included in that? Because the Constitution protected these terrible things. But wait, we have to maintain the values of the Constitution when it was created. So we should take part in these terrible things. You are being incredibly hypocritical here. How is this not what you're saying?" I NEVER said to protect evil things by what the Constitution says, you are totally wrong! Tell me where the Constitution protects evil and if you do so I will agree it should be amended. You say.... "What defines a "true Christian?" Just, someone who is nice? Or someone who believes in Christ? Or is it someone who follows all the teachings of the Bible. The bible asks for killing, bloodiness, and has several discrepancies, so it can't be that. And why does it have to be through Christ? Why can't it just be people who examine things objectively and try to form their own opinions of what is right and wrong? Why do we need some magical book to teach us? Are humans that worthless?" The Bible answers your question. It said you can know a Christian by their love. I need no magical book to teach me common sense humanity towards others because faith n God instills that common sense wisdom and humanity to see evil when it occurs. Tell me where it tells people to do evil things to others in the new testament. The Christian faith is based on the New Testament. Liberals obviously do need someone to teach them humanity because they are the inhuman people who justify Abortion on demand through a ludicrous privacy clause in the Constitution. You say.... "Citing the Bible is dangerous, because it removes analysis. Who do you trust more, the person who blindly believes whatever some book tells them, or the person who thinks about topics and formulates their own opinion. Just doing what you're told means you can't ever know for sure if what you're doing is logical, on a personal level Think about it. Do you, personally, really think homosexuality is wrong, or is it just because people have told you it is. I can not believe you have the nerve to make such a statement. Who do i trust more? LOLOLOLOL, I trust the wisdom in the Bible a thousand times over some so called enlightened phony Liberals who justify their killing of our most innocent Babies under some ludicrous logical deduction that killing these Babies is a privacy issue. You are so utterly lost in your own sense of superiority. It is truly sickening how blind you actually are to your own selfish evil. You say.... "abortion is not inhumane. I will try to explain my reasoning here (and yes, I'm using some outside sources to put this list together, but that doesn't invalidate the points.): a) A fetus is not equal to a child because it cannot survive on it's own. It's dependent upon it's mother for life, and as such is not it's own, independent creature. b)Even if a fetus was alive, the “right to life” doesn’t imply a right to use somebody else’s body. If a mother is in danger due to pregnancy, it is the fetus that is endangering her life. If you have to choose between a person who is already living and has made an impact on the world and someone who has not, who do you pick?" Thanks for just describing excuses from slave traders and slave owners why it was ok to treat slaves like animals. In their minds a Black man was not a man, he was more like an animal or in your words "fetus". How nice of inhuman people making excuses for their inhumanity. Slave owners would say that Slaves are too stupid to live on their own...hmmmmm. If you could only have the wisdom to hear your words, it's amazing the total lack of compassion and total self love justifying killing those little babies. you say..."So why do you claim that nothing should change in the Constitution?! You say that where we are now is perfect, and that wanting to change things makes us unreasonable or weak" Do you just like to lie or are you that dense to say things I never said. I NEVER SAID nothing should change. I said if there is some issue that is not clearly addressed in the Constitution, we should have amendments that are agreed on by both parties. I have no problem with amendments that are needed. I said they should be few and never done by extremists who want to transform our nation without bipartisan support from both sides. I said Democrats told us all they would never force others to pay for abortions. LIE! This is the change that we fight against. You said....."When did they ever say that" I refuse to debate a liar! If you don't know that Democrats told us for years how they would not force others to pay for abortions then WOWOWOWOWOWOW! It's getting closer to ignore time. To compare forcing people to pay to kill an innocent life, to paying for a Military makes you something I will not say. You say.... "There is nothing wrong with Christian heritage. However, the fact that it is prevalent in our society does NOT mean it can be enforced into every institution" LIAR AGAIN! I said each community should have the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE if they want a prayer or not. It's enforced on no one! I realize that your bigoted beliefs are that people of faith who have beliefs different from yours should have their freedoms censored. That makes you a hypocrite Liberal. Total hypocrites who want it all their way. They want only their secular Political correct dogma enforced on our children. Just because you are brainwashed enough to think Homosexuality is natural thing. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THAT! You have the nerve to enforce your beliefs on us. Force states to allow Gay marriage against the people's beliefs. You are worst than any religion could ever be. There are always reasons why other's rights mean nothing to you. ONLY GAYS GET SPECIAL MENTION AND RIGHTS IN YOUR LIBERAL WORLD! you say.... "The Constitution gives a freedom of religion, not a freedom to impose your religion and only your religion on others. Would you be comfortable if your child went to a school where the prayer every day was an atheist text? Or a Muslim prayer? Seriously, would you be ok with that?" I try not to call Liberal fools but it is so hard!!!!! AGAIN YOU PATHETIC LIAR! I've said many times I believe in school choice where paranoid people who fear hearing a prayer can send their kids to schools that don't have a prayer. Wow, that's so hard to grasp for a Liberal. Liberals understand this simple concept very well. The problem is they want to censor any mention of our religious heritage and history from our public lives. They truly are scary people attacking our most basic freedoms. I believe each parent's school taxes should go to the school of his choice and in this way the bad schools will go away and the good ones will thrive. Then finally our children's grades will improve to the world's averages. You say....Do you not see the flaw in letting the Church control the law? If you base your laws off of texts from the past, no matter how right you think they are, you REMOVE ANY HOPE OF IMPROVEMENT." AGAIN YOU LIE! I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT! I never siad our laws should come from the Bible. Our laws of humanity do come from our Christian heritage but they are common sense laws of humanity. Thou shall not murder, steal, bare false witness,ext. The ten commandments say nothing about the lies you spew of murder and evil being supported in the Bible. The Bible has very few verses about slaves and they are very vague and the Bible also speaks of people who work for others as being slaves to the employer. So many people believe that employees were called slaves to their employers. There were many slaves belonging to non Jews back then so slavery was spoken of. So for you to use that verse in your own bigoted way is pathetic. I will repeat, the Bibles says you will know a Christian by their LOVE. You are trying to paint the bible to your bigoted judgmental beliefs. You say....The problem is a community is not necessarily unanimous. If even ONE person is even questioning that religion, they immediately lose their own right to religion as they are essentially peer pressured into it. It also removes children's ability to figure out religion for themselves. If the community says they MUST be Christian and at school EVERYONE around them is saying a prayer, how can they think for themselves?" Are you always a liar or just on this site? What kind of fool keeps saying mindless lies to try to make their argument right? The next time you tell me how Christians want to force others to be Christians, you are ignored! Can you imagine a world where if the ONE disagrees with another's beliefs we must ALL censor ourselves so as not to offend someone with different views. CAN YOU EVEN GRASP THE INSANITY OF YOUR THINKING? Free speech is ALL about the right to express our beliefs no matter who it may offend. You are getting very scary. you say... "Please. There is a difference in denying your heritage and denying your right to get off school for holidays. Again you lie and twist my words. It was Liberals who censored our freedoms to celebrate our Christmas and Easter holidays as we have since our nation was founded. ONCE AGAIN I'M TALKING ABOUT FREEDOM TO CHOOSE HOLIDAYS AS WE HAVE WITH MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY, ETC. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, it's ok when it's a holiday for one group of Americans, but boy it better not be a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY!!! Liberals are such bigoted judgmental hatemongers when it comes to Christian heritage. We are talking bout two holidays we have had forever and you spew your garbage about Christians forcing more and more holidays on the people. you say.... "Wait, so what freedoms do you think you deserve in the Constitution. The freedom to impose your views on others without any choice on their side? To deny people the right to stay away from Christianity, if that's what they want? To control the days the country operates in schools and businesses based solely on your own personal religion? Again spewing how Christians would IMPOSE our views. FREEDOM TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE! Can your simple mind grasp that concept. It is your ilk, the Liberal control censors who will force THEIR SECULAR POLITICAL CORRECT DOGMA on all Americans. The nerve of a Government to teach kids in school how Homosexuality is a normal natural thing. Do you know what a prayer actually does? It speaks to love, forgiveness and asks for our children staying safe while t school. CRUCIFY THOSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY SUCH HIDEOUS THINGS. THEY WANT TO FORCE OUR KIDS TO BE CHRISTIANS!!!!!! You are laughable your rhetoric to scare people from our religious freedoms of expression. You say... "The reason for removal of guns has to do with safety. There are an obscene quantity of cases of gun violence in America, especially compared to foreign nations with gun control. How will denying you the right to a deadly weapon deny you of your rights? You don't have access to tanks, or nuclear bombs, or deadly chemicals, or so many other deadly things, why should a gun be any different." Wow! as with all good little Liberals you spew the same rhetoric of comparing guns to tanks. Don't let the facts get in your way of anti gun rhetoric but the very cities with the most stringent gun laws have the MOST GUN VIOLENCE AND DEATHS! Tell me what kind of arrogant fool thinks he has the right to take our guns because he thinks guns are not safe? Who cares what you think. You talk about Christians supposedly forcing others to think like them and then you hypocrite, you are the actual one's who are arrogant enough to force others to think like you by taking our gun rights. Again you are very scary. I want my guns to keep my family safe from criminals you fool! How dare you take my gun from my home! I said...You do realize that Gay activists have sued Christian churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers do you not? That in a nutshell is the answer to your question of why we fight the Homosexual movement. Their goal is to force us all to accept their lifestyle as normal and force our faith to change and accept it. GOOGLE IT if you actually cared. You say... "You are asking for Christianity to be the dominant religion, and be allowed to be present in all aspects of every day life." Again you lie.... we ARE the majority religion in this nation and is why we HAD Christian holidays and nativity scenes on our public land. It is the close minded bigots who could not stand our majority faith being expressed and would censor it from our public. YOU ARE VERY SCARY! I said...We already have false Churches who have Gay pastors which preaches a religion contrary to our biblical faith. You said...."So anyone who goes against anything in the Bible is a "false" Christian or a "false" Church? So any church with a pastor who has ever cheated on their spouse is a "false Church." So is any church with a pastor who had sex before marriage. Or ever mastrubated. Or ever wore clothes with more than one fabric. Or ever did any of the completely ridiculous commands in the Bible. I guess there aren't any "true" churches. I guess Christianity is dead." Wow could one person be any more ignorant to what Christianity is all about? I'm not sure if you can actually grasp this simple truth but here goes. Do you know what a cult is? It's usually a new man made religion that branches off from a faith such as Christianity, and changes it's doctrine to start a new cult. Do you know the difference from a person who sins as we all have done, and admits what he did was a sin, verses the person who takes the truth's spoken in the Bible and denying what it says. Gay pastors do not say that homosexuality is a sin. They have started their own cult where they twist the Bible to fit their lifestyles. Homosexuality is a sin just like adultery, lying, etc. etc. In true Christian churches, if a pastor committed adultery, he is not trying to tell the people that adultery is ok. No Christians should never deny what their faith says in the Bible. They should never try to say their sin is ok. Gay Pastors have taken our Christian faith and transformed it as Liberals are trying to transform our nation. You say.... "Why help the rich get richer when there are millions more dying and starving? LOL, you show me one starving person in this nation and Americans would stampede over each other feeding him. We are talking about dead beat lazy scam artists who trade their food stamps for money to buy alcohol, gambling, drugs, etc. Fools want to keep giving these people a free ride. Those rich people you speak of are actually the middle class struggling to pay their bills while social programs are taking much of their money. I am paying 70% of my property taxes where I live, to medicaid. I am lower middle class. Quit spewing the same old rhetoric of the "rich". 3
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" typical Liberal saying the EXACT same thing as every other Liberal. Talk about indoctrination!" Or, you know, shared ideology. " Liberals obviously do need someone to teach them humanity because they are the inhuman people who justify Abortion on demand through a ludicrous privacy clause in the Constitution." Liberals don't have a unified opinion on abortion, so you should stop spreading this lie of yours. "I can not believe you have the nerve to make such a statement. Who do i trust more? LOLOLOLOL, I trust the wisdom in the Bible a thousand times over some so called enlightened phony Liberals who justify their killing of our most innocent Babies under some ludicrous logical deduction that killing these Babies is a privacy issue. You are so utterly lost in your own sense of superiority. It is truly sickening how blind you actually are to your own selfish evil." You didn't even bother to understand what he said. He was referring to those who ANALYSE information, including the bible, as opposed to those who just blindly believe something verbatim. You also need to try debating people without bringing up abortion at every single turn. It makes absolutely no sense, and it shows a "sense of superiority" on your part far past what you are accusing liberals of. "Thanks for just describing excuses from slave traders and slave owners why it was ok to treat slaves like animals. In their minds a Black man was not a man, he was more like an animal or in your words "fetus"." Nonsensical comparison. A fetus is, at most, a stage in human development. If you want to think of them as a human that is perfectly fine, but to compare that to a fully grown, functioning human being is not rational in the way you have done. " How nice of inhuman people making excuses for their inhumanity. Slave owners would say that Slaves are too stupid to live on their own...hmmmmm. If you could only have the wisdom to hear your words, it's amazing the total lack of compassion and total self love justifying killing those little babies." Again, those who are pro-choice honestly do not believe they are babies. That is not an excuse, that is an actual belief of theirs. "Do you just like to lie or are you that dense to say things I never said. I NEVER SAID nothing should change. I said if there is some issue that is not clearly addressed in the Constitution, we should have amendments that are agreed on by both parties. I have no problem with amendments that are needed. I said they should be few and never done by extremists who want to transform our nation without bipartisan support from both sides." Every single amendment has had opposition. The entire Bill of Rights had extreme opposition. "I said Democrats told us all they would never force others to pay for abortions. LIE! This is the change that we fight against." I have asked you multiple times, where is your evidence that taxpayers fund abortions? "I refuse to debate a liar! If you don't know that Democrats told us for years how they would not force others to pay for abortions then WOWOWOWOWOWOW! It's getting closer to ignore time. To compare forcing people to pay to kill an innocent life, to paying for a Military makes you something I will not say." It is entirely possible that he simply never heard them say that, and hence asked you. That is not a "lie", so you should try to be a bit more honest in how you approach people who disagree with you. And the military kills innocents all the time, so the comparison is completely and utterly valid. "LIAR AGAIN! I said each community should have the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE if they want a prayer or not. It's enforced on no one!" Actually, in many of the forms you would like, it most certainly is enforced upon people. Public school prayer, for example, forces children to be a part of (even if not taking part in) a religious exercise. Religious symbols on public property forces people to pay for the religious icons of a religion that is not their own. Nothing he said was a "lie" " That makes you a hypocrite Liberal. Total hypocrites who want it all their way. They want only their secular Political correct dogma enforced on our children." Like what, SPECIFICALLY? " Just because you are brainwashed enough to think Homosexuality is natural thing. YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THAT!" You have been given the evidence that proves you wrong. It is not our fault that you refuse to change your opinions when faced with evidence that disproves it. Biologists, the people who actually study life, say you are wrong. The very field of science that pertains to this issue proves that you are wrong. You have no evidence to support your stance on this issue. "You have the nerve to enforce your beliefs on us. Force states to allow Gay marriage against the people's beliefs" Pure hypocrisy. When a state is forced to recognize same-sex marriage, nobody is forced to do anything. Homosexuals are given their constitutional freedoms and civil rights, and nobody is forced to think or do anything differently at all. You are mad that you are not allowed to deny them their freedoms and force your opinions on to them, which is pretty ironic. " You are worst than any religion could ever be. There are always reasons why other's rights mean nothing to you. ONLY GAYS GET SPECIAL MENTION AND RIGHTS IN YOUR LIBERAL WORLD!" Equal Protections and Due Process are not special rights, they are Constitutional rights that you want to deny to American citizens. "I try not to call Liberal fools but it is so hard!!!!! AGAIN YOU PATHETIC LIAR! I've said many times I believe in school choice where paranoid people who fear hearing a prayer can send their kids to schools that don't have a prayer. Wow, that's so hard to grasp for a Liberal. Liberals understand this simple concept very well. The problem is they want to censor any mention of our religious heritage and history from our public lives" That simply does not work. First off, any public school that includes prayer is forcing tax payers to fund a religious activity against their will. Second, there are insufficient public schools to allow people to simply "choose" another. There is no "censorship" going on, of heritage or history. "They truly are scary people attacking our most basic freedoms. I believe each parent's school taxes should go to the school of his choice and in this way the bad schools will go away and the good ones will thrive. Then finally our children's grades will improve to the world's averages." You really don't know what freedoms the Constitution grants you, it seems, as not one in our nation's history has what you have described been ruled to be a freedom by any court of law at any level. "AGAIN YOU LIE! I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT! I never siad our laws should come from the Bible. Our laws of humanity do come from our Christian heritage but they are common sense laws of humanity. Thou shall not murder, steal, bare false witness,ext. The ten commandments say nothing about the lies you spew of murder and evil being supported in the Bible." Actually, our legal system comes from the English Common law system, as any Law School student or Lawyer could tell you. As for the 10 Commandments, those are derived from the Code of Hammurabi, a secular code of law that predates the commandments. "Are you always a liar or just on this site? What kind of fool keeps saying mindless lies to try to make their argument right? The next time you tell me how Christians want to force others to be Christians, you are ignored! Can you imagine a world where if the ONE disagrees with another's beliefs we must ALL censor ourselves so as not to offend someone with different views. CAN YOU EVEN GRASP THE INSANITY OF YOUR THINKING? Free speech is ALL about the right to express our beliefs no matter who it may offend. You are getting very scary." That isn't what he is saying at all. What you want is to force people to, via tax dollars, support a religion that is not their own. That happens with school prayer, religious icons on public property, etc. You do not have free speech in schools, and your freedom of speech does not extend to religious icons via tax payer money. Neither of those have anything to do with expressing your beliefs. "ONCE AGAIN I'M TALKING ABOUT FREEDOM TO CHOOSE HOLIDAYS AS WE HAVE WITH MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY, ETC. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, it's ok when it's a holiday for one group of Americans, but boy it better not be a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY!!! Liberals are such bigoted judgmental hatemongers when it comes to Christian heritage." Everyone has Christmas and Easter off, so what is your problem? And Martin Luther King Jr. day is not a day for a group of people, it is a holiday based off of a singular individual. "Again spewing how Christians would IMPOSE our views. FREEDOM TO CHOOSE OR NOT TO CHOOSE! Can your simple mind grasp that concept. It is your ilk, the Liberal control censors who will force THEIR SECULAR POLITICAL CORRECT DOGMA on all Americans. The nerve of a Government to teach kids in school how Homosexuality is a normal natural thing. Do you know what a prayer actually does? It speaks to love, forgiveness and asks for our children staying safe while t school. CRUCIFY THOSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY SUCH HIDEOUS THINGS. THEY WANT TO FORCE OUR KIDS TO BE CHRISTIANS!!!!!! You are laughable your rhetoric to scare people from our religious freedoms of expression." I have already demonstrated how your "freedom to choose" would simply not work or make sense in this country. Additionally, I have demonstrated to you that the scientific community has definitive proof that homosexuality occurs in nature, and is thus natural. I have also explained to you how school prayer is not a "religious freedom of expression\", and how having it in school actually violates other's freedom of religion (not even going to address the Establishment Clause issues with it). "Wow! as with all good little Liberals you spew the same rhetoric of comparing guns to tanks. Don't let the facts get in your way of anti gun rhetoric but the very cities with the most stringent gun laws have the MOST GUN VIOLENCE AND DEATHS! Tell me what kind of arrogant fool thinks he has the right to take our guns because he thinks guns are not safe? Who cares what you think. You talk about Christians supposedly forcing others to think like them and then you hypocrite, you are the actual one's who are arrogant enough to force others to think like you by taking our gun rights. Again you are very scary. I want my guns to keep my family safe from criminals you fool! How dare you take my gun from my home!" Actually, both of you want to force your views upon others, which is why it is funny that both of you are having these issues :P "I said...You do realize that Gay activists have sued Christian churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers do you not? That in a nutshell is the answer to your question of why we fight the Homosexual movement. Their goal is to force us all to accept their lifestyle as normal and force our faith to change and accept it. GOOGLE IT if you actually cared." They failed, they will never succeed, and the group you are referring to is an infinitesimally small minority within the LGBT community, not representative of homosexuals at all. They really could not care about you less, so long as you stop trying to deny them their civil and constitutional rights. "ou say... "You are asking for Christianity to be the dominant religion, and be allowed to be present in all aspects of every day life." Again you lie.... we ARE the majority religion in this nation and is why we HAD Christian holidays and nativity scenes on our public land. It is the close minded bigots who could not stand our majority faith being expressed and would censor it from our public. YOU ARE VERY SCARY!" Do you believe the majority should be allowed to trample on the rights of the minority? Because that is antithetical to our very Constitution. "Wow could one person be any more ignorant to what Christianity is all about? I'm not sure if you can actually grasp this simple truth but here goes. Do you know what a cult is? It's usually a new man made religion that branches off from a faith such as Christianity, and changes it's doctrine to start a new cult. Do you know the difference from a person who sins as we all have done, and admits what he did was a sin, verses the person who takes the truth's spoken in the Bible and denying what it says. Gay pastors do not say that homosexuality is a sin. They have started their own cult where they twist the Bible to fit their lifestyles. Homosexuality is a sin just like adultery, lying, etc. etc. In true Christian churches, if a pastor committed adultery, he is not trying to tell the people that adultery is ok. No Christians should never deny what their faith says in the Bible. They should never try to say their sin is ok. Gay Pastors have taken our Christian faith and transformed it as Liberals are trying to transform our nation." Actually, you are describing a sect, not a cult. They are quite different. "OL, you show me one starving person in this nation and Americans would stampede over each other feeding him. We are talking about dead beat lazy scam artists who trade their food stamps for money to buy alcohol, gambling, drugs, etc. Fools want to keep giving these people a free ride." Come out here to Chicago, ignore the ghettos and just look at the homeless population, of which a MASSIVE number are schizophrenic. Are they "dead beat lazy scam artists"? Nobody is helping them, and populations like them exist in every major city in the country. "Those rich people you speak of are actually the middle class struggling to pay their bills while social programs are taking much of their money. I am paying 70% of my property taxes where I live, to medicaid. I am lower middle class. Quit spewing the same old rhetoric of the "rich"." If he is speaking of rich, he is, by definition, not speaking of middle class. 2
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Asserting that my perspective is "scary" is not actually a legitimate argument against its validity. Continuing to misrepresent my perspective as "no-fault" when I have explicitly indicated to the contrary and explained why this is inaccurate is also not a legitimate argument against my points. The notion that the Democratic Party represents nihilism, and my particular form of it especially, is patently absurd. I assure you once more that the vast majority of liberals reject my views as strongly as you do (and generally from the same basis: "it's scary"). I will not deign to respond to the rest of your drivel, primarily because it is entirely off topic to the original subject matter. Given that you have utterly digressed from your earlier points and my standing rebuttals of them I consider those matters tacitly conceded and my engagement with you here at an end. 1
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Liberals and conservatives and theocrats are all party to psychological manipulation. Generally speaking, that is rather the point of ideology - to control and channel individual autonomy into collective thinking towards a desired end. Such ideologies hold their own appeal to different people, but ultimately they play the same game and make the same demands - believe the ideology and live according to its demands. 1
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Under your philosophy, we are all manipulated by some ism and therefore what? There is no right and wrong? One side is no better than the other? I do not believe that for a second. We follow ism's that we agree with. I am not manipulated by Fox news or any other Conservative or Christian medium. I agree with Fox news and I agree with the tenants in the Bible. No man or woman (besides my parents) has ever manipulated me to believe their philosophy. I live life, I see people, I see corruption on both sides but I also see more good and truth in one side. Under your philosophy, we are all manipulated by some ism and therefore what? There is no right and wrong? One side is no better than the other? Correct. I consider every single thought and action to be determined by our genetic dispositions acted upon by external stimulation. I do not believe in free will. I do not believe in right or wrong. I do not believe any person or group is better than the other, though some may be more evolutionary effective than others. I do not believe that for a second. I could care less what you believe. Belief is subjective. That you feel you are not manipulated or that you chose your current views does not prove that you were not manipulated or that you actually chose your views. It only shows that you believe that, which is ultimately meaningless. Our perception of free will has repeatedly been demonstrated as unreliable in multiple studies. 1
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You do realize that your beliefs, if shared by our law makers would create a world that would look like an apocalypse movie. Under your no fault ideology there could no longer be consequences for one's behavior because in your mind he's only acting upon his genetic disposition. That would leave the toughest meanest ruthless groups of people out their terrorizing the people who are genetically disposed to being good. ISIS likes how you think. Now please allow the sane people of the world to keep our laws that punish the bad guy. None of that remotely follows from my rationale. You incorrectly assume that culpability is inherently necessary for accountability to exist, though that is not at all the case. Rather than determine accountability based upon the arbitrary and subjective moral belief, we would determine accountability in terms of objective, practical efficacy. We would not hold ISIS to account because it is morally wrong, but because failure to do so would be detrimental to our social order. Hardly. Determinism speaks to the causal elements (genetics & stimuli) that produces the effect (thought & action). Observing that all human thought and action is the consequence of the same basic causal elements does not render those thoughts and actions interchangeable in terms of their manifestation and consequences. Obviously, these pairings have different effects on individuals and the social order and I never remotely indicated otherwise. The only way in which I would be equating these pairings is in the moral sense, which I reject entirely. If that is the substance of your rebuttal, it is seriously lacking; all you have done is assert your feelings of repugnance in warrant of your view that my argument is weak. You have not actually refuted the substance of my arguments at all. You have given no reason to think we have free will or that morality is objectively real, or even subjectively valuable. 0
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You make my point perfectly. You say the same hogwash the Left Wing Media constantly say. You make unsupported blatant statements that these Conservatives are crazy. So what makes them crazy? The media does not tell us these facts just as they never tell us why the Tea Party is so bad.They just make insults towards them. The reasons people like you say they are crazy is because they are Christians? Do you see the bigotry from people who refuse to vote for Conservatives especially if they dare speak of a faith in God. That type of bigotry is no different then not voting for a person because of their race or gender. For me, a person's faith is EXACTLY what we need in Politics because that is at least one piece of evidence that just maybe they truly do have a moral code they live by. Just maybe they are more honest. Just maybe they do care for the people and their personal freedoms and stopping Government from becoming so corrupt and controlling over our freedoms. Just maybe they truly care about our national debt and the path we are on. You suggested that Congress is more corrupt today because of their Christian beliefs. You would have to be blind not to see that our Congress today is made of a majority of people who have no strong faith in God. They never dare even mentioning their faith. Christians who actually express their faith no longer get elected and for THIS reason the corruption obviously comes from non Christians and these "separation of Church and State" alarmists and these Liberal extremists who want to transform America. Yes, they are considered crazy because of the Christian faith. But, a Christian faith is not a good indicator of whether they are good at doing their job. When someone says they have a deep faith in God and that is why they should be elected you don't know how they will do their job. When your main reason for thinking you are better than the opposition at doing the job it is crazy to not actually talk about how you will do the job. The other part that is a problem is that faith in God is not a good indicator is because their faith grows during elections. The religious candidates cause the good candidates to change their tune to get elected in primaries by the religious faction of the country. 1
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Not one of those people I mentioned ever used their faith as the reason you should vote for them. It was my opinion that people should think about voting for them because of the moral values true Christians try to live up to. Are there false Christians who have no moral codes important to them? Yes there are hypocrites in every walk of life. These Conservatives mention their faith because that is part of who they are. It is refreshing to see a Politician open up to who he really is and from where his moral values are derived. In today's anti Christian culture, it is not beneficial for a Politician to mention his faith. You see this from the low poll numbers of Conservatives like Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Mike Huccabee, etc. who dare mention their faith. The corrupt career politicians will say anything to get elected and would never be honest about anything that would hurt their chances. We need honest Politicians! Are you old enough to remember when the majority of Americans were pro life? Do you remember how the Politicians were mostly pro life because of it? When the poll numbers started changing as the media indoctrinated more and more people to be pro abortion, Democrats instantly changed their spots and became pro Abortion. They had no true core pro life beliefs, they just said what they thought the people wanted to hear. I don't know about you, but I admire politicians who actually believe in the right of an unborn Baby's life. They actually stood by their pro life stance no matter the poll numbers. They are the kind of politicians we need in this nation..... not because of any one issue but because they have a moral foundation to their lives that can not be bought. That is commendable and the kind of leaders we desperately need. We will never get them when people like you look down on them because of their faith. Not one of those people I mentioned ever used their faith as the reason you should vote for them. I have never seen them run on a platform that didn't involve social issues. It was my opinion that people should think about voting for them because of the moral values true Christians try to live up to. Are there false Christians who have no moral codes important to them? Yes there are hypocrites in every walk of life. No one can tell the true from the false. These Conservatives mention their faith because that is part of who they are. It is refreshing to see a Politician open up to who he really is and from where his moral values are derived. Unless he is Muslim of course. In today's anti Christian culture, it is not beneficial for a Politician to mention his faith. All of the politicians you mention hold a political office, so that seems to be incorrect. You see this from the low poll numbers of Conservatives like Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Mike Huccabee, etc. who dare mention their faith. The corrupt career politicians will say anything to get elected and would never be honest about anything that would hurt their chances. We need honest Politicians! Dishonest politicians get elected to President though. Are you old enough to remember when the majority of Americans were pro life? Do you remember how the Politicians were mostly pro life because of it? When the poll numbers started changing as the media indoctrinated more and more people to be pro abortion, Democrats instantly changed their spots and became pro Abortion. They had no true core pro life beliefs, they just said what they thought the people wanted to hear. Are you talking about the time when the country was run by the conservatives? I am not old enough for that, but I think your memory may be spotty. Perhaps you are too old to remember it any more. I don't know about you, but I admire politicians who actually believe in the right of an unborn Baby's life. Too bad they are being hypocrites about it. The political party that makes it a massive point to say that new laws should not be created to give too much power wants to create new laws for abortion. That is commendable and the kind of leaders we desperately need. We will never get them when people like you look down on them because of their faith. I personally look down on them because their faith to the party makes them weak. Every politician who has a deep religious faith seems to want to handle the problem the same exact way. Finding the same political solution no matter how much resistance it gets involves the wrong kind of faith. 1
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The attack from the Left for any politician who dares mention their faith is to tell the voters that these Conservatives will force moral laws on them. This is a complete lie of course but it is so laughable and hypocritical to hear controlling Liberal Democrats who constantly are finding new ways to force their politically correct laws on you and me, while they play the scare tactics against Conservatives. The attack from the Left for any politician who dares mention their faith is to tell the voters that these Conservatives will force moral laws on them. But, that's true. The Republicans are trying to push moral laws like no gay marriage. This is a complete lie of course but it is so laughable and hypocritical to hear controlling Liberal Democrats who constantly are finding new ways to force their politically correct laws on you and me, while they play the scare tactics against Conservatives. The only time you show any signs of criticizing the Republican party is insulting RINOs, so you wouldn't recognize problems with the conservatives. Conservatives can win over moderate voters by slightly changing their tune. 1
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Do you know how many thousand times people use the same ludicrous argument that Conservatives push moral laws like no Gay marriage. THE LAWS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN NO GAY MARRIAGE AND IT IS THE DEMOCRATS FORCING THEIR POLITICAL CORRECT LAWS ON THE STATES AND FORCING GAY MARRIAGE AGAINST THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE STATES. They do this of course with one Judge going against the people in each state. Talk about hypocrisy, tell me what party keeps pushing their separation laws and lies of censoring freedoms to have Christian holidays in schools, removal of any Christian symbols from our public lands, etc. etc. etc.. Who wants gun control laws, who wants forced healthcare, who wants forced free school lunch programs, who forces private family businesses to cater things that go against their faith, who forces states to allow illegal immigrants on their land and use their social programs, Who tries to force their environmental laws on the people, on the states not allowing Fracking etc. I could go on and on over Political correct laws forced on the people. There is no comparison between the two parties when it comes to forcing laws on the people to fit their ideology. It's too bad you are too young to be on a debate site. You know nothing of these past 50 years of the Liberal movement. I on the other hand REMEMBER very well everything that went down over Roe v Wade and the laughable Democrat party that flip flopped over it. Before you waste our times talking about laws protecting our lives, even our Baby's lives, DONT'! Republicans are all about freedoms of life and liberties to the people, that's in our Constitution, that is NOT CREATING MORAL LAWS! THE LAWS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN NO GAY MARRIAGE AND IT IS THE DEMOCRATS FORCING THEIR POLITICAL CORRECT LAWS ON THE STATES AND FORCING GAY MARRIAGE AGAINST THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE STATES. If this is true why are anti gay marriage laws being overturned left and right by every state that enacts them? How do you enact a new law that has always been there? Talk about hypocrisy, tell me what party keeps pushing their separation laws and lies of censoring freedoms to have Christian holidays in schools, removal of any Christian symbols from our public lands, etc. etc. etc.. Who wants gun control laws, who wants forced healthcare, who wants forced free school lunch programs, who forces private family businesses to cater things that go against their faith, who forces states to allow illegal immigrants on their land and use their social programs, Who tries to force their environmental laws on the people, on the states not allowing Fracking etc. That's not hypocrisy. There are asking for legislation that they think is right. Everything the Democrats push is based on what they think is better for the country. You are asking for legislation that you claim is moral and not moral at the same time. In the age of the internet you have to give actual reasons for why you want stuff done. Republicans are all about freedoms of life and liberties to the people, that's in our Constitution, that is NOT CREATING MORAL LAWS! Wait, you are telling me that you don't even have morals to stand behind? You just want to keep everything the way it is and lie about your moral background. That's terrible. You should be ashamed of yourself. I liked you guys a lot better when I thought you were telling the truth about wanting to follow God. 1
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Conservatives and Christians believe in moral values and that society should lift up those values as being good for our nation, but we also know you can not make moral laws to force people to be moral. We can stop handing over tax payer's money to people living irresponsibly. If a person wants to live an immoral life on his own money, that's his business. When he comes asking for my money, he better be cleaning up his life before I would give him one thin dime. Why do you waste my time with such loony arguments? The reason anti Gay marriage laws are being overturned is because they were just FORCED on the states by Liberal control fanatics. Get real. If you believe Democrats are pushing all these laws just because they think it is better for the country then you live on Mars. It is all about politics and getting elected with big money from groups who want those laws pushed down our throats. Tell me how these Liberal laws are doing for the nation? Hows that Obamacare doing for the middle class who pays for it? How's that 18 trillion debt doing? All Democrats do is take from those who would not vote for them and give to those who will. It is buying votes and if you can't get that.... WOW! Conservatives and Christians believe in moral values and that society should lift up those values as being good for our nation, but we also know you can not make moral laws to force people to be moral. Actions speak louder than words. Why do you waste my time with such loony arguments? The reason anti Gay marriage laws are being overturned is because they were just FORCED on the states by Liberal control fanatics. Get real. You can't blame liberals for everything. Liberals did not pass anti gay bills to be overturned. If you believe Democrats are pushing all these laws just because they think it is better for the country then you live on Mars. It is all about politics and getting elected with big money from groups who want those laws pushed down our throats. It is the justification used regardless. That's the point. Tell me how these Liberal laws are doing for the nation? Hows that Obamacare doing for the middle class who pays for it? How's that 18 trillion debt doing? All Democrats do is take from those who would not vote for them and give to those who will. It is buying votes and if you can't get that.... WOW! What you fail to understand is that it doesn't have to be a failure because it is hypocritical. Things can just be bad policies. You idealize an early American political history you barely understand. The term "conservative" as it exists today does not mean the same thing it meant 200+ years ago because politics and ideologies evolve over time. That aside, I was questioning the notion that "honest" and "moral" politicians have ever been so commonplace as you imply (irrespective of political identity). 1
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Again I say the Constitution was written for the exact reason you speak of. The Framers of the Constitution understood that cultures can evolve and change. They can be manipulated by a corrupt president or corrupt biased media. The Constitution was not written to change with the times. To your other question, I am sure there has been corruption in Government since time began. That is why our Constitution was written to limit Government's power over the people. I believe politicians were not as corrupt as today because they were more influenced by our Christian heritage and moral values. The Constitution was not written to change with the times. The Constitution was written with an option for amendment that was exercised by the founding generation itself. You are fundamentally incorrect. To your other question, I am sure there has been corruption in Government since time began. That is why our Constitution was written to limit Government's power over the people. The founding generation attempted to establish a system of checks and balances. The populace was a part of that equation, but so to was the establishment of three branches of government with divided powers. The very reason those powers were distributed into distinct branches was to prevent power from concentrating in the hands of a few, precisely because politicians then as now were corrupt to some extent. I believe politicians were not as corrupt as today because they were more influenced by our Christian heritage and moral values. Medieval European leaders were arguably more Christian than their deistic counterparts who found the U.S., yet few would consider the former less corrupt. The Vatican has been subject to its own share of scandals, yet it is arguably the most Christian governing body in the world. Your assertion that Christianity prevents corruption is entirely unfounded, and rather unsupported by history. 2
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"Now ask yourself, if our Congress and schools have been saying prayers to start their days since the Constitution was written, why are Democrats so bent on twisting the Constitution to censor any mention of our Christian heritge in public places." Appeal to history logical fallacy: Just because something has been, does not mean it should be. Countless examples could be made (if women have not been voting since the creation of this country, why should we give them suffrage now?) "It basically comes down to their goal of transforming America. What must a would be dictator like Government do to control the people? They must first control the people's minds and means of sustanence. To do so they must become Lord of your life." That is actually a PERFECT argument against including religion in our government in ways that violate the Establishment Clause. "There is no room for two masters and in all their Liberal arrogance, they want to be the one and only master to your thoughts and beliefs. This is why you will never hear Democrats telling the people that faith in God and hard work can help get them through tough times. " Most Liberals are Christian, and you can hear countless Democrats say exactly that. Just look at Catholics, for example! "Americans used to be a proud hard working people who were ashamed of asking for charity from tax payers. Look at them today after 60 years of the Progressive movement. They are not only NOT ashamed of taking charity from others.... THEY DEMAND IT!" What time period do you believe was America's Golden Age, and why? "We need good honest moral Conservative politicians once again. Other than faith in God, It truly is America's only hope." Are there any recent American politicians that you believe are examples of this that you have supported? Now ask yourself, if our Congress and schools have been saying prayers to start their days since the Constitution was written, citation needed why are Democrats so bent on twisting the Constitution to censor any mention of our Christian heritge in public places. citation needed It basically comes down to their goal of transforming America. citation needed What must a would be dictator like Government do to control the people? They must first control the people's minds and means of sustanence. To do so they must become Lord of your life. citation needed There is no room for two masters and in all their Liberal arrogance, they want to be the one and only master to your thoughts and beliefs. citation needed This is why you will never hear Democrats telling the people that faith in God and hard work can help get them through tough times. citation needed No, they say GOVERNMENT is one and only answer. citation needed Why do you think Obama made that hideous condescending remark of how Ameircans cling to God and Guns? I think I can look this up myself. We need good honest moral Conservative politicians once again. Other than faith in God, It truly is America's only hope. why Because we were a people united against a tyrannical Britain, not because we were unified under conservatism or a god. America should be completely secularist, we are a nation of immigrants. All beliefs, all religions, are equal before our laws. God should have nothing to do with government. Want a moral handbook, use the damn saying as a kid, "Treat others as you would want to be treated." -1
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We don't need a god, we don't need conservatives or liberals, we need well informed and educated citizens. To be honest, who do you think put those politicians in their seat in the first place? I don't blame them, everything is corporate run. Go read some bills and you will find a shit ton of riders and corporate handouts. Why, because corporations fund campaigns to get their way, quid pro quo. Just remember, the government is not controlling you, it's an entity easily changed by any people with a voice. Unfortunately, corporate money is the loudest one. From where I sit, I am of a mind that America became the greatest nation on earth as a consequence of the self reliance, innovation, pioneering spirit and work ethic of it's people. It's a non argument to suggest that because these bedrock principles are a few hundred years old they are somehow flawed and outdated. A nation can evolve successfully without changing the fundamental moral and ethical nature upon which it was founded''. If it ain't broke, don't fix it''. It was these admirable national characteristics which placed the United States of America a head and shoulders above the rest of the world. Sadly these strengths have been diluted by the unrestricted immigration of people from the failed nations of the world. This regrettable feature of American policy along with politicians convincing a section of the population that the world owes them a living and that there really is something for nothing, the U.S, is now a nation in decline. Because of the so called multiculturalism and it's diversity America is now being pulled in different directions and has ceased to have a recognizable national identity with a common goal. 1
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"From where I sit, I am of a mind that America became the greatest nation on earth as a consequence of the self reliance, innovation, pioneering spirit and work ethic of it's people." While we as a country love to think that, we have a tendency to forget that our nation was quite literally built upon slavery and slaughtering a native populace. I certainly agree that there were some periods of time where self reliance was the trade mark of America, and innovation and pioneering have certainly been strong characteristics of this country, but much of that is hand in hand with the "unrestricted immigration" that led to the colonizing of this continent and the foundation of this country. " A nation can evolve successfully without changing the fundamental moral and ethical nature upon which it was founded''. If it ain't broke, don't fix it''." But when a nation's fundamental moral and ethical nature is founded upon slavery and genocide, or at the very least included the acceptance of these, then isn't it, to a certain degree, broken? "Fundamental transformation" hardly means anything in the mouths of mainstream politicians. Nevertheless, it is the rallying cry for the simple progressives who support change and the alarmist rally for the simple conservatives who oppose it. Small wonder the average liberal is excited and the average conservative incensed; this is the same song and dance they have been doing for decades. I hardly see why you hate the idea that America might be fundamentally flawed in some respects or that it might need to change. It makes sense to me. This nation was founded upon an ideology that had had limited application, and by people at odds with one another in their views on how it should be implemented. I should like to think that while that template served us decently throughout history, 200+ years would have yielded some insight into what was not done so well originally. I find the notion that the founding fathers implemented a perfect system without flaws frankly absurd, and more so the idea that we should so enshrine those good but imperfect ideas as to render them impermeable to interrogation. America owes much of its success to its history of slavery, colonization, and the exploitation of other populations and nations... all of which are fundamentally antithetical to the idealized recollection of the founding era as a bastion of personal liberty. It is patently naive to think that any powerful nation state ever rose to its prominence without situating itself there at the expense of others, either within or without its borders. I do not see that as a bad thing myself (it is in the nature of nations to do such), but I think it is misguided to exalt them as honorable entities. Your arguments about the evils of immigration are the same tired drivel that has been repeatedly discredited throughout our history. Your objections to present immigrants were the exact same ones presented against early Chinese immigrants, Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, etc. Those populations did not lead to the downfall of the nation then, and there is little beyond unfounded paranoia to suggest current immigrants will either. A successful, strong nation will always attract people from failing, weak nations; if it is truly strong it can accommodate and benefit from that, and if it is not then its collapse is owing to factors far more deep than a minority immigrant population. I would further challenge you to prove that there ever has been a singular "national identity" with a "common goal". This nation has been at odds with itself since its founding. That capacity for conflicting views and goals is one of our greater assets, not a weakness; it is what differentiates us from a totalitarian regime where diversity of opinion is actively suppressed at the expense of personal liberty. -3
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Do you see the bigotry from people who refuse to vote for Conservatives especially if they dare speak of a faith in God. That type of bigotry is no different then not voting for a person because of their race or gender. For me, a person's faith is EXACTLY what we need in Politics because that is at least one piece of evidence that just maybe they truly do have a moral code they live by. Just maybe they are more honest. Just maybe they do care for the people and their personal freedoms and stopping Government from becoming so corrupt and controlling over our freedoms. Just maybe they truly care about our national debt and the path we are on. You suggested that Congress is more corrupt today because of their Christian beliefs. You would have to be blind not to see that our Congress today is made of a majority of people who have no strong faith in God. They never dare even mentioning their faith. Christians who actually express their faith no longer get elected and for THIS reason the corruption obviously comes from non Christians and these "separation of Church and State" alarmists and these Liberal extremists who want to transform America. 3
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Actually, the exact opposite is true. Americans do not trust atheists. Look it up. "At 22%, Americans' resistance to electing a Mormon president, even one nominated by their own party, is exceeded only by their opposition to electing someone who is either gay or lesbian (32%) or an atheist (49%). By contrast, less than half as many, 10%, say they would not vote for a Hispanic, and fewer than 10% would not vote for a nominee who is Jewish, Baptist, Catholic, female, or black." -Gallup, "In U.S., 22% Are Hesitant to Support a Mormon in 2012", June 20, 2012 "Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to." - Scientific America, "In Atheists We Distrust", January 17, 2012. You might also not be aware that there are several states that actually ban atheists from holding public office? "The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God." -North Carolina State Constitution, Article 6, Section 8 "No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court." - Arkansas State Constitution, Article 19, Section 1 "No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state." - Mississippi State Constitution, Article 14, Section 256 "That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution." - Maryland State Constitution, Article 37 Do you also distrust facts? 3
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FromWithin stated that politicians who dare speak of a faith in God are victims of bigotry. I disputed this by showing that any bigotry faced by these people (who proclaim their faith) pales in comparison to the bigotry faced by politicians who dare say they do not believe in a God. 0
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You missed my point. Those few examples of states who truly do understand the values of a moral man trying to live up to a moral code, are the minority when it comes to the Presidential elections. Any Politician that dares to tell the people how important his faith is to him, gets hideous poll numbers. You are talking about individual states where some states are more Conservative and understand the benefits of those values. National elections are totally different. Most politicians would never mention that they are atheists because it means to those of faith that he has no moral foundation to hold onto in tough times. Atheists will say that they are every bit as moral as people of Faith, but as I described how quickly Democrats flip flopped on the abortion issue, it truly shows how quickly a person's morals can drift with the temptation of getting elected, getting paybacks, getting money, etc. etc. When a man has a true faith, those moral decisions are more steadfast and do not change with the poll numbers. It is much easier for a phony to lie when trying to force his agendas on the people. He will lie through his teeth when faith means nothing to him. 2
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Ok. Forget individual states. Wasn't your point that politicians who proclaim their faith in God face bigotry? My point was that, while that may be true, it pales in comparison to anyone who would let it be known that they are an atheist. According to the Gallop poll I referenced, 49% of Americans will not vote for a qualified atheist. I am one of those atheists who believes there is no correlation between a person's faith and their morality. 0
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Well I could could give you many examples how your morals have probably evolved with our culture. The same way that Liberals think our Constitution should evolve with the times. I will give you a few examples why there is a huge correlation between a person's faith or lack of and their views of morality. I lived through the 60's and 70's when the Liberal movement started growing. At that time our Christian heritage had a much greater impact on what was considered immoral by society as a whole. At that time, living together without marriage was considered immoral. We also believed that Homosexuality was immoral. We believed divorce was immoral for the person breaking up the marriage. Abortion was considered immoral. Premarital sex was immoral. I could go on but you get the point. Now be honest and tell me if your moral values have not changed with the times. Do you agree with any of those moral standards? What I am saying is that without a faith in something greater than yourself, your moral standards will change with the times. Do you remember when Homosexuality was considered unnatural and abnormal? It was considered a mental illness by many doctors and psychologists. Back in the 80 and 90's people would laugh at the very mention of legalized Gay marriage. They would have said no way possible. So what happened to change people's minds? I believe the Liberal media became the bully pulpit for political correct thinking. They twisted our thinking to believe traditional Christian values were bad and the new anything goes political correctness was good. The bottom line is that if you have no faith in a scripture that teaches us right from wrong, your moral values have no foundation. I'm sure you think murder is immoral but you have been indoctrinated to believe abortion is not. True Christian can never be convinced that abortion is ok because God tells us it is not. 3
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First I want to say that I appreciate your considerate tone. I grew up in a conservative Catholic family, and they share many of the views you do. Premarital sex, homosexuality, divorce, and most of all abortion, are all immoral in their minds. I still believe that abortion is wrong because human life is valuable. I never had strong opinions about premarital sex, homosexuality, and divorce when I was younger. My values have changed over time, but I'd like to think for the better. I now feel that people should have the right to do pretty much what they want, up till the point where they begin to harm someone else. That is, the right to swing my fists ends at another person's nose. It's not fair to project this on anyone else, and I try not to, but I have to say that some members of my family are terrible bigots. In general, they are not altogether comfortable (to put it nicely) with gays, blacks, jews, muslims, etc... I've had a few heated arguments over the years regarding what I consider their hypocrisy. However, I realize we all have our faults. I think it is important to understand that humans interpret scriptures. Therefore, even morality based on a faith in God is subject to change over time. As recent as 150 years ago people who considered themselves good Christians believed slavery was condoned by the Bible. Most Americans Christians no longer adopt this interpretation. Finally, I find no proof that people with faith have a truer sense of right and wrong than atheists. I truly believe that. Besides my own personal experience, humans throughout history have used religion to persecute others. Are these people any more or less wicked than some atheists in history? Of course not. But for every example you can come up with that shows an atheist committing some abominable act, I can come up with a person of faith who has done something just as terrible. -1
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The people you mention who have done terrible things in the name of Christianity are false Christians. I believe Hitler called himself a Christian as well as the KKK. Don't let these false Christians influence your beliefs towards true Christians. One of the greatest verses in the Bible tells us how to know a Christian. It says we will know a Christian by their love. Love separates true Christians from false Christians. But don't allow bigots against those of faith make you think it is wrong for Christians to take stands against sins that God spells out in the Bible. It is not Judging or being unloving when we speak out on sins. When we take a stand against Gay marriage, we do so not out of hate for Homosexuals but for our freedoms to keep our traditional values from our nation's Christian heritage which I truly believe made us the greatest nation on Earth. This new age anything goes culture is at war with our Christian heritage. We are on the slippery slope to bankruptcy, financially and morally. It would be judging when a person says John Doe is a sinner and will go to hell because of blah blah blah. Do I believe homosexuality is a sin? Yes I do but I do not judge some homosexual and tell him he is going to Hell. His sin is no different from other sins such as divorce, adultery, etc. etc. God is the Judge and we will all answer to him. Do you really want to know why Christians get so angry at the Politically correct Left wing ideology? The Left is trying to change our faith to say that Homosexuality is ok, and abortion is ok, and divorce is ok, etc. We have a right to our faith as it is written and it is sickening how those on the Left want to twist it to fit their PC lifestyles. We had Gay activists suing Churches to force them to have Gay Sunday school teachers. Do you see how this progressive movement of forcing our Christian faith to include their beliefs makes Christians speak out and take stands against those who would transform the Christian faith. This is why we speak out against activist Gays. It has nothing to do with hating anyone. Were it not for Gay activists and Liberals pushing their PC transformed America on all Americans, the Church would say little about homosexuality. I think it is terrible how those on the Left judge the Christian faith by those who have done terrible things in the name of Christ. Now this does not mean that God expects us all to ignore evil. There many examples where God told people to go to war to stop evil. Who are we to judge when people in the past went to war against people in the name of Christ just as we go to war against evil today. None of us know what was truly going on a thousand years ago. Now let me make this next point very clear. I'm sure you have heard many people tell you that God hates the sin but loves the sinner. You said you feel that people should have the right to do pretty much what they want, up to the point where they begin to harm someone else such as abortion(I added that to show the hypocrisy of those on the left who refuse to see the harm they do to the most innocent of life). I totally agree that people should have the right to live any way they want but I would add the disclaimer I do not want to pay for all the problems they will incur in life because of those irresponsible lifestyles. If they want to sleep around, abuse drugs and alcohol, walk out on their families etc. etc. don't expect others to pay for their lifestyles. I think you have believed the lie from the Liberal biased media that Christians want to make moral laws and force others to live like Christians. That is a lie from the Left to scare you from voting for a Conservative or Christians. It is pure politics. I am a Protestant so I have no idea how you were raised in the Catholic faith but I hope you realize your parents loved you and raised you in a way they believed would keep you safe and secure with a true grasp of the importance of moral values in your life. Basically you admitted to me how your moral values as an Atheist have changed with the times. This is the slippery slope we all fear. Great nations fall from within. As far as your example of how Christians supposedly changed their moral beliefs toward Slavery. I don't agree with your conclusion. Christians were the ones trying to end slavery. Those who condoned the type of southern slavery by one little vague verse in the Bible speaking about slavery would fit in the false Christians I spoke of. 0
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Not one of those people I mentioned ever used their faith as the reason you should vote for them. It was my opinion that people should think about voting for them because of the moral values true Christians try to live up to. Are there false Christians who have no moral codes important to them? Yes there are hypocrites in every walk of life. These Conservatives mention their faith because that is part of who they are. It is refreshing to see a Politician open up to who he really is and from where his moral values are derived. In today's anti Christian culture, it is not beneficial for a Politician to mention his faith. You see this from the low poll numbers of Conservatives like Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Mike Huccabee, etc. who dare mention their faith. The corrupt career politicians will say anything to get elected and would never be honest about anything that would hurt their chances. We need honest Politicians! Are you old enough to remember when the majority of Americans were pro life? Do you remember how the Politicians were mostly pro life because of it? When the poll numbers started changing as the media indoctrinated more and more people to be pro abortion, Democrats instantly changed their spots and became pro Abortion. They had no true core pro life beliefs, they just said what they thought the people wanted to hear. I don't know about you, but I admire politicians who actually believe in the right of an unborn Baby's life. They actually stood by their pro life stance no matter the poll numbers. They are the kind of politicians we need in this nation..... not because of any one issue but because they have a moral foundation to their lives that can not be bought. That is commendable and the kind of leaders we desperately need. We will never get them when people like you look down on them because of their faith. The attack from the Left for any politician who dares mention their faith is to tell the voters that these Conservatives will force moral laws on them. This is a complete lie of course but it is so laughable and hypocritical to hear controlling Liberal Democrats who constantly are finding new ways to force their politically correct laws on you and me, while they play the scare tactics against Conservatives. |