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Debate Info

126
114
PRO-CHOICE PRO-LIFE
Debate Score:240
Arguments:92
Total Votes:387
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 PRO-CHOICE (58)
 
 PRO-LIFE (39)

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repubgal(336) pic



PRO-LIFE vs PRO-CHOICE (OBAMA vs McCAIN VERSION)

Life begins at the moment of conception

PRO-CHOICE

Side Score: 126
VS.

PRO-LIFE

Side Score: 114
5 points

My first thought whenever the topic of Pro-Choice versus Pro-Life comes up, is that it's not a debate. Something that is so highly emotional and so personal. Something where each and every instance of it coming into play (any unwanted pregnancy) is so drastically different each time. The idea of there being one yes or no answer to this question seems archaic. Which is why it's called pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Abortion is never a good thing, no one is happy to have one. But the choice is sometimes the only choice for some people, for others its not. The fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter, as long as the choice is that persons to make, and that person alone. Not some judge, not some republican, and not some small town mayor from Alaska.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
2 points

I'm not sure that Palin would or could force women to go full term.

Side: PRO-LIFE

Again, I agree 100% and couldn't have set it forth better myself. You've said what needed saying...even if everyone needs to be reminded of it from time to time.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
0 points

Thanks, that's kinda what I was going to say when I saw the debate, probably not as well.

And would ad that making abortions illegal does not and I'll repeat it does not, never has, and never will cut down on the number of abortions. All it does is force women into basements to get them performed by people who may or may not be doctors, and it increases the mortality rate for women a hundred times.

So you have to ask yourself what really is the goal of the pro-life group? If no one is really saved, and infact more life is lost by making it illegal.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
3 points

Let's look at the question logically.

Pro-Choice fully supports Pro-Life.

Pro-Life does not support the most important point behind Pro-Choice.

This question is heavily debated, which indicates to me that people cannot decide who is right about the issue.

Obviously, because it's a governmental issue, you support the idea that covers most people, and is less restrictive. Like I said, that would be Pro-Choice as it does not conflict with Pro-Life, and does not infringe on people's rights to make their own choices... why would a government unsure of who is right about the issue wish to enforce the more strict ideology?

It makes perfect sense to allow people to make their own decisions about this. All of the Pro-Life people need to get used to sharing the nation with people who don't think the way they do... I'm looking at you GOP. 0_O

Side: PRO-CHOICE

Yeah, I agree. I'm "pro-life" but you're entitled to your decision. It's between you and your maker after that. The reason I'm pro-life is because I have 2 kids and I could have had 3. I made a choice and although it may have been the right choice at the time, I would like a do over.

What I'm saying is that when I say I'm pro-life, I mean that I would try not to choice and abortion. I do not mean that I would force my views on others.

Side: PRO-CHOICE

Wow... that was very well said! I am coming into this debate late, and missed all of the fireworks, but your point says it all!

Side: PRO-CHOICE
2 points

Pro-Choice all the way. The last thing we need is more parents with unwanted children.

While we are on the subject, Pro-Life shouldn't be called that. It should be called Anti-Abortion. Life is a much more general term that could be applied to war and capitol punishment.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
fairfax68(48) Disputed
2 points

So if parents decide that they don't want children they should have a right to end their lives? What about parents whose children are already born? Sounds like the ends justify the means here. That the extinguishing of a life might lead to fewer "unwanted children" hardly justifies the intrinsic evil and relative gravity of this action.

Side: PRO-LIFE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
1 point

So, since you are pro-life, how many children have you adopted?

Side: PRO-CHOICE
1 point

Women deserve a choice Men like me and every other guy don't deserve to take that painful choice away from women. I don't believe anyone likes an abortion especially women. The reason they have them isn't because they want to see a baby die. There are hundreds of reasons why. Work, there damn lives, who the hell knows what else the point being its called pro-choice not pro-abortion.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
1 point

Come on now, how are you going to force someone currently alive to ruin their life for a reason you can't understand. I'm pro choice because killing a fetus is no more wrong than killing a animal. They are alive only enough eat, sleep, and breathe. They are in fact more of a hassle at this point.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
-1 points

well, i disagree with the idea of completely eliminating abortion. i mean, yes, it would protect the rights of the baby inside the mothers, but a stream of post menstrual feminazis will stop having sex with their husbands... and i can't allow this to happen to my fellow man.

so i do support up to 3 months because at least the baby is unaware of it's death (thrown into a trashcan, shit like that), but i do support that fetus going into some kind of medical research so at least it's life was worth something... god, i'm so glad i wasn't aborted... imagine that, never existing? never doing what you did? i would never want that to happen... but once again, post menstrual feminazis... it's basically the greater good.

hmm, what would have been interesting is if every person who currently supports abortion was aborted so they had never been able to continue that movement. funny thing to think about...

Side: PRO-CHOICE
kirstie1126(480) Disputed
2 points

I really do hate the term "feminazis." Supporting women's rights should not be analogous to killing off thousands of people!

Side: PRO-LIFE

I like to think that those "souls" get another chance at life. Or at the very minimum, get to enjoy life after death.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
-2 points

I rather fry somebody in prison than take away (from somebody that has never been convicted) a chance to live. But that's just me ;)

Side: PRO-LIFE
testrunist(12) Disputed
1 point

Speaking of prisons... What do you think happen to those women who are found guilty of commissioning an illegal abortion? If you define abortion as murder then logically these women would be sentenced with murder, embryonocide as it were.

NOTE Sorry, I noticed that I setup a straw man. Just correct me if that isn't your position.ENDNOTE

Side: PRO-CHOICE

My position on abortion is that I'm against it but I wouldn't force my position on others.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
1 point

So, since you are pro-life, how many children have you adopted?

Side: PRO-CHOICE

What do you mean? I'm for sterilization. The reason I went to get one of those government sponsored vasectomies is because I have two kids. The reason I have two kids is because I don't want three. I have a hard enough time keeping up with the two I already have.

Side: PRO-STERILIZATION
4 points

I'll keep this simple. The abortion issue is an issue because people continue to make bad choices. There are plenty of ways to have safe sex, and can considerably reduce the risk of a pregnancy. To me an abortion is more than murder its a refusal by the parents of the unborn child to take responsibility for their actions. Though I'm not willing to concede that a fetus is not a living thing or at the very least a group of cells with an extremely high probability of developing into an individual organism, I will for the moment put that issue aside. It's hard to imagine that anyone can argue that except for cases of rape, and perhaps even threat to the mother's health, the choice to have an abortion is the choice to run away from a potential "problem." It's a choice that is akin to foisting one's child off to a relative because the parent(s) would rather go off and live their lives free of the worries of parenthood. Not only is it irresponsible its utterly disheartening. Have we as a society really become so selfish?

Side: PRO-LIFE
Probama123(44) Disputed
1 point

I agree that it's stupid and irresponsible to get pregnant, considering safe sex is possible. However no matter how dumb the girls maybe i refuse to have a say in what she does with her body. I simply cannot command someone to have a baby, or to get an abortion. It's her and her parents choice not mine. It's really none of my business to be able to vote pro choice or pro life and possibly end up forcing a young woman to have a baby.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
2 points

I don't believe that life begins at conception. That idea stems from the Christian idea of the soul, a belief that is baseless and irrational.

I believe that there is a continuum whereby a fertilized egg gradually becomes a human.

I believe there is certainly nothing wrong with destroying a single fertilized egg.

However, I do believe that aborting a fetus toward the end of a pregnancy (say 8 months) is in fact murder. You are taking a human life (or at least something very close to human), and that is certainly against the law.

A woman should not have a choice about whether to have a late-term abortion for the same reasons she should not have a choice to commit the murder of an adult.

Our laws need to take this progression from potential life to realized life into account.

Side: PRO-LIFE
pvtNobody(645) Disputed
2 points

OK let me get this straight, you're in favor of laws that recognize that a fetus is in fact a future baby; is in fact human life. But you're against outlawing abortion outright? Look there's no gray area in this issue. Either we allow abortions or we don't. Just because a fetus at 8-months looks more like an already born baby doesn't mean that it's any different from the embryo that was formed in the mother's womb 8 months earlier. I don't see how there is any difference between a late-term abortion and an abortion the morning after. In both cases a human life is being extinguished before it ever had a chance to be born.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
jessald(1915) Disputed
3 points

I assume your position is this: At the moment an egg is fertilized, it has been infused with a soul -- it has been "touched by God" and therefore destroying it is a kind of blasphemy.

Well I don't believe in God and I do not believe in the Christian version of the soul, so this framework doesn't work for me.

The way I see it you do not have a "human life" until the entity can think and feel. Since a fertilized egg or an embryo can neither think nor feel, it is for all practical purposes no different than a clump of dirt out of which life can spring.

There is nothing wrong with destroying a potential human, but there is something wrong with destroying a realized human. So where is the line between a clump of cells that can neither think nor feel and a human being? Well, the fact is, it's not a line, but a continuum. I'm saying it's a difficult moral problem and our laws should reflect that complexity.

Side: PRO-LIFE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
0 points

So, since you are pro-life, how many children have you adopted?

Side: PRO-LIFE
caisharie(3) Disputed
2 points

Where do you draw the line (8 months)? Why 8 months? If we are a "continuim" than why can't it be 9 months gestation or even 1 day old?

With your strain of logic the whole issue of pro choice becomes even more subjective than before. You are saying that you are autonomous & you can decide when life really begins for you and I can decide for me. There are even schools of thought out there (google it) that believe that a woman should have 30 days after she gives birth to decide whether or not she wants to abort.

And, furthermore why would you concede that abortion in the last trimester is considered murder? By what standard can you make such a claim? Why is murder wrong? You could appeal to the fact it is written in our laws that murder is a crime, but where did that come from? I would encourage you & anyone (pro-life or pro choice) to really study the beliefs & standards your very founding fathers stood upon. The very reason that we can have this debate rests on a freedom that was handed down to us. The very least we owe those that have gone before us is to study & listen to their reasons for establishing this nation. I guarantee you that they believed we all have a soul.

One last comment & I'll be through.....if we don't have a soul then we do not have a real hope. This topic is a completely different debate, but I believe that as our culture embraces your line of thinking more & more (that we do not have a soul) we will become more & more obsessed with youth & become so self obsorbed to the point that we will no longer procreate b/c of our own hopelessness. Just a thought....

Side: PRO-LIFE
ThePyg(6738) Disputed
-3 points
jessald(1915) Disputed
2 points

Huh? How does that follow?

Late term abortion = taking a human life = murder.

How do you get around that?

Also, must you use the term "feminazi?" Equating anybody with the Nazis is pretty damn harsh.

Side: PRO-LIFE
2 points

i think it is OK to be pro-choice as long as you give the baby the choice to live or die. another good pro-choice is abstinence, birth control, and adoption. if you don't want to have a kid chose one of thoes

Side: PRO-LIFE
1 point

I am PRO-LIFE. Life begins at the moment of conception. However, I find it diffucult to understand the justification of pregnancies from rapes and molestations. Not just 'mistakes'. I believe that if it is going to cause harm to the baby, that is when an abortion should be considered. I'm not saying abortion for down-syndrome children. That's not an exception. However, if the baby will live ONLY in misery, without any moment free of pain. You want what is best. It's a sensitive topic. With lots of controversy, but DO NOT tell me it's the womans 'right'. I will NOT tolerate such absurb comments.

Side: PRO-LIFE
1 point

Do you mean to say that you cannot justify an abortion if a woman was raped or molested? If so, do you also rule out abortion for a 12 year old child or a mother who might die giving birth? The only point I can possibly agree on is that it's NOT an inherent woman's right but a question that has been passed into law making it a right. But it is, no matter what, a woman's choice...and I mean a WOMAN, not a child.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
0 points

I'm curious why you believe that life begins at the moment of conception. At that point all you have is a single cell, similar to the ones that are everywhere on your body, thousands of which die every day. I guess my problem is that you think that a sperm and egg separately are nothing, but when they are combined, life magically starts. At that point, the cell can't see, can't hear, can't even think. There is no consciousness, no feeling. The only thing it can do is multiply and eventually the cells that multiply specialize.

To say life starts at conception is a fairly simplistic view. There is no specific moment where something not alive becomes alive. In fact as far as we know, this only happened once: during abiogenesis.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
2 points

Absolutely agree. A more significant milestone would be the point at which a fetus can start to feel pain. Before this point, what significance is there in getting rid of a collection of cells that cannot think, feel, hurt, sense, etc? Scientific consensus on this issue is that the establishment of thalamocortical connections is a critical event with regard to fetal perception of pain, and this happens around the 26 week mark.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
2 points

"At that point all you have is a single cell, similar to the ones that are everywhere on your body, thousands of which die every day."

No, there is a severely big difference - the cell is fertilised with someone elses DNA and can become a functioning, multicelluar organism.

"At that point, the cell can't see, can't hear, can't even think. There is no consciousness, no feeling. The only thing it can do is multiply and eventually the cells that multiply specialize."

The fertilised egg divides and specialises until it becomes a functioning, multicelluar organism. A skin cell cannot do this.

"To say life starts at conception is a fairly simplistic view."

So? Why not say life starts at conception? Seems a fairly logical place to define it. Life begins when two organisms' DNA combines and leads to cell division - how about that? No room for fuzzy wiggling there.

"There is no specific moment where something not alive becomes alive."

Is that not a separate argument?

Side: PRO-CHOICE
repubgal(336) Disputed
0 points

Being a Christian I believe that God has a purpose for that particular sperm-egg ferilization...Seeing how this country is 'One nation under God' my beliefs should be justified....I see your point though...I think...

Side: PRO-LIFE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
0 points

So, since you are pro-life, how many children have you adopted?

Side: PRO-CHOICE
repubgal(336) Disputed
1 point

How does that make since? Just because I'm PRO-LIFE I have to adopt children? Lots of children are adopted by loving homes...It happens!

Side: PRO-LIFE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
-1 points

If life began at conception, every woman who miscarried before implantation would be a murderer. Nearly every woman has conceived without becoming pregnant at some time or other. Millions of women around the world would be the worst sinners of all.

Sorry, anyone who believes in a loving, forgiving God cannot possibly take that stand.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
fairfax68(48) Disputed
2 points

That doesn't make any sense at all. The difference is that mothers don't plan on having a miscarraige - it is a tragic accident. The idea is that murder involves some willful intent. Per Wikipedia, "Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification."

Side: PRO-LIFE
1 point

abortion doesn't make you "unpregnant". it just makes you the mother of a DEAD BABY.

Side: PRO-LIFE
1 point

holy shit... that was AWESOME!

Side: PRO-CHOICE
4 points

just how i see things [:

Side: PRO-LIFE
0 points

Nice cliche but I cannot agree with that line. The issue of when a fetus actually becomes viable continues to be argued. I see that you are Catholic and probably believe that a baby is viable from inception. This, I strongly disagree with but you are entitled to your opinion and I will not talk you out of your belief.

Side: PRO-CHOICE
ohfackk(82) Disputed
3 points

why does everyone assume that my catholic beliefs tie into my opinion ? while it contributes to what i think is right, i was prolife since i was little nd back then i didn't know that it was also an opinion my faith agreed with.

do me a favor and don't even talk about fucking religion in this debate. i'm tired of having to talk about religion in a subject when that can simply be avoided.

Side: PRO-LIFE
Tamisan(890) Disputed
0 points

So, since you are pro-life, how many children have you adopted?

Side: PRO-CHOICE
0 points

Life begins when the fetus is able to live outside the womb. If it can't live on it's own there is no baby. While no one likes abortions, it is a mother's right to chose. She is the one that will have to live with her decision.

Side: PRO-CHOICE