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Debate Info

4
4
Yes They Are No Way
Debate Score:8
Arguments:11
Total Votes:8
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 Yes They Are (4)
 
 No Way (4)

Debate Creator

Grenache(6053) pic



Perceived holy images on inanimate objects are not miracles

Burn marks on toast, condensation on windows, deformations on trees, may be interpreted by the religious as images of Mary or Jesus and may inspire visitors and pilgrimages by those who call them miracles.  Are they?

Yes They Are

Side Score: 4
VS.

No Way

Side Score: 4
1 point

I mean, It depends on how the object got the holy image on it.

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From a Christian church view, First commandment says god is not to be worshiped as any graven image. and 2... they wouldn't consider it the kind of miracle that would make you a saint.

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however...that's not to say they aren't miraculous, or other signs of....somthing.

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Like if I said a prayer and then spilled wine on a white cloth and got a jesus from it, I'd think that's pretty Miracle-y. but then I wouldn't flaunt it on the internet because then that shit would look fake as fuck.

Side: Yes They Are
Grenache(6053) Clarified
1 point

Ok. I'll certainly agree circumstance is relevant.

But burnt toast at breakfast or a smudge on a bedroom window are circumstances where I call it bull.

Side: Yes They Are
1 point

Then we got nothing to argue about. :P have a good one!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Had to write more characters :P I suppose it cuts down on Spam. but... Jeez it annoys me. especially when i get in a flame war with saintnow and all I want to say is "Cool Story bro"

Side: Yes They Are
1 point

I worked in a potato chip factory, kept looking for Mary to show up on a potato chip so I could sell her for a million bucks....she never showed up, even though she showed up on toast or something for a guy who got his million....it's not fair, I looked at soooo many potato chips before anybody else could have seen them.

Side: Yes They Are
Grenache(6053) Clarified
2 points

You have an impressive resume sir. ...........................................

Side: Yes They Are
1 point

maybe that happened because you're a sinner?

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Side: Yes They Are
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Who said I'm not a sinner? Nobody here has ever said I'm not a sinner, as far as I know. Many say there is no such thing as sin, and they claim they are not sinners, but me? they never say I'm not a sinner. They hate me.

Side: Yes They Are
1 point

1) Of course there's the standard random luck argument that natural forces just ended up looking like that.

2) Also, the shapes interpreted as Jesus or Mary look like Renaissance era interpretations of what they looked like, but no one really knows their appearance. These could just be images of any random person from history. Do you worship random people from history?

3) With all the power an omnipotent God has he doesn't need burnt toast.

4) If a humanoid outline truly is the work of God then any other shape that might appear, whether it be a frog or phallus or boobs, also must be miracles from God trying to tell us something.

5) If other entities (like Satan) also can mislead with images on burnt toast then how do you know the Mary shape isn't just Satan putting a false idol out there for you to sin and make a fool out of yourself worshipping?

Side: No Way
1 point

Satan is an imitator. The Fatima story is one of 'miraculous" events involving three little girls which gained worldwide fame, and the whole thing is just a trick of the devil from Hell.

Side: No Way
1 point

Agreed. Just like percieved holy images of experimental data (or what we believe to be such), do not prove the miraculous fairy tales of modern cosmology.

Side: No Way

You hear about these incidences a few time a year in my area and almost always it's Mexicans who see a virgin Mary in a taco, cactus, water stain etc. I think it's hilarious how some turn it into a money making enterprise, charging admission to the gullible to see it. Capitalism, it does a bank account good.

Side: No Way