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there are groups for everything. make sure those groups are not identified by others and you have no target on your back.
as for feminism, i empathise. i would rather be treated equally than below another. so do most others. as far as i see it, (although a misleading title) feminism is a desire for pompous idiots to realise that to a large extent they are the same as everyone else
Women can't go into combat in the military and there is still a lot of discrimination between corporations. Wal Mart had a few cases of this a year back. In a lot of Arabic countries, women don't have most rights that men have. In Saudi Arabia, women have to treat their men like their legal guardians. I don't blame you if you want to argue that Arab countries aren't developed but they have governments so they are to some extent.
What I'm saying is that pro-women and feminist movements should not concentrate their efforts in the Western World. They should be focusing in Arab nations were women are still kept from succeeding on their own.
Activists almost always focus on changes within their home. Who are you to tell them otherwise? There are of course places were things are worse, but that in no way delegitimizes their desire to fix problems within their own homes.
No offense, but it seems pretty arrogant to tell them otherwise.
It also seems pretty arrogant to believe that women in the Western World are at the same risk as women in the Middle East. But, your right though...screw those women in the Middle East, because women here are SO oppressed...In what way in the western world could a women be oppressed? Give me an example or a specific case?
What's arrogant is to tell someone that they can't protest anything unless it is the worst form of a problem located anywhere.
I'm sorry, but that simply isn't logical, at all. Protesting these issues here isn't saying that issue is just as worse in the Middle East, it isn't saying that women here are "SO oppressed", it is simply saying that a problem does still exist, and they want to fix it.
Why does that make you so angry?
Give me an example or a specific case?
How about a specific case: My wife is a lawyer. In many firms here in the United States, women aren't allowed to wear pants. Seriously, the dress code REQUIRES gender specific clothes for FORMAL WEAR. Many firms also will not hire women if they appear at interviews wearing dress pants. These firms also have a tendency to pay their female associates less than their male associates (as our society as a whole does).
We also have a leading presidential candidate who said he wants to effectively create witch hunts every time a woman has a miscarriage.
Women aren't allowed to wear pants during interviews because it's a dress code. I have to wear a suit and tie to interviews, and I freaking hate it. It's called having class though. Sorry I didn't make the rules. Firms also have a tendency to pay women less because on average they work less hours, and don't hold as many executive positions in high-end companies. With that said, there is absolutely nothing stopping women from entering these managerial positions, except for individual zeal and determination to succeed in the workplace. Why do leftist individuals always paint women as the "victims" in the Western World?
Okay, this post of yours is indicative of a massive underlying issue.
I simply tell you about my wife, I tell you she is payed less, and I tell you she is forced by the norms of the industry to wear gender specific clothes. You respond by implying 1. That she is complaining about having to "have class", despite the fact that what I mentioned was an issue with sex specific clothing (particularly clothing that is impractical and not conducive to environments where the standing temperature is lower than that of the female body), 2. That she works less and 3 that she holds a lower position.
Right off the bat you just made up a situation in which your objection would work, instead of bothering to find out the actual situation and seeing if that parses with your preconception. Do you see how HUGELY problematic that mindset is?
Why do leftist individuals always paint women as the "victims" in the Western World?
I never "always" did so, or anything of the sort. I started presenting you some situations in which women are unequal, and you seem to be angry about that. May I ask why you are angry at having people point out situations in which women are unequal or disadvantaged? Does that somehow take something away from you?
What's problematic is the fact that you believe that women are somehow under serious threat here in the United States. Things have never been better for women in the United States. I don't really understand what your getting at with "gender-specific" clothing. All clothing is gender-specific, that's why at department stores your have a men's and women's side for different clothing. With the idea of it being "not conductive to environments where the standing temperature is than that of the female body", the average human temperature is 98.6*F and I think it's a safe bet to say that people normally start feeling uncomfortable way before that environmental temperature is ever reached. This is exactly what I'm talking about here. Third-wave feminism is a joke! People is the Western World are complaining about having to wear a dress, meanwhile women in the Middle East are suffering from massive human rights violations. Why doesn't feminism direct it's resources over there?
I'm going to keep this short to avoid saying anything rude. First, I never said women were under serious threat. You have thus far relied entirely upon straw men. Stop.
Second, you have repeatedly made an illogical point that if things aren't at their worst, they can't be considered a problem. That's just not how the world works, and it's not conducive to anything remotely close to a legitimate conversation. If you can't stay on topic, as opposed to making irrelevent allusions to places where things are worse, then I'm done.
Third, for the love of god listen to what I actually say. She wanted to wear pants because they are gender neutral, more practical, and warmer, since office buildings have a temperature calibrated to men's average body temperature which is different than womens.
Fourth, I really could not care less about your mistaken preconceptions on the non existent singular "Third Wave Feminism", so please respond to what I say instead of railing against this imagined foe.
No, you answered questions I didn't actually ask. Deflecting to a different topic isn't an actual answer, nor is trying to silence thr whole conversation using straw men.
Now, will you please address what I actually said?
Since I have no desire to go back and repeat myself again, I'll simply ask you this: why do you seem to be under thr assumption that if a woman says she is disadvantaged in a particular way in our society, she must be lying?
The other question I'll ask is why are you trying to say that you can not discuss anything short of the worst manifestation of a problem?
The reason I say that is because women are the most successful than they have ever been in American History. The theories that feminist propose are economically and socially illogical. The wage gap is a myth, abortion is still infanticide, the rape-culture B.S., etc. I don't understand why these people have a sense of moral superiority to the rest of us?
The reason I say that is because women are the most successful than they have ever been in American History.
Which is entirely irrelevent. Just because things are better for them now than they ever have been does not mean that all problems have been eradicated, nor does it answer my question as to why you assume they are lying when they point out ways in which they are still disadvantaged.
The theories that feminist propose are economically and socially illogical.
That statement itself is illogical, as feminists are not themselves consistent. You are making the common mistake of assuming there exists a singular Third Wave Feminism, but there simply isn't. There are over half a dozen different schools of feminist thought and they are wildly varying in their proposals on social norms and policy. So you are declaring schools of thought that range from Marxist to Libertarian "illogical" based on....what? Your preconception of the word "feminist"?
The wage gap is a myth,
It's an undeniable fact that there exists industries in which women who work the same number of hours in the same position with the same credentials get paid less. That's simply a fact. If you want to say that claims of an overarching wage gap are a myth, then that's because it would be damn near impossible to legitimacy prove something so nuanced. But I brought up a specific wage gape within a company within a specific industry and you immediately assumed, without any knowledge of the situation, that I, and my wife, were lying. Why?
abortion is still infanticide,
By definition of the word "infant" it can't be. You might think it is murder, but that is a subject of debate regarding when life begins and has nothing to do with feminism.
the rape-culture B.S
What about it is "B.S"?
don't understand why these people have a sense of moral superiority to the rest of us?
They don't. They simply point out things that are problems. Your mistake is assuming that those criticisms of society should be taken personally, and that by pointing out a problem, they are declaring superiority. Neither are correct.
Firstly, I never accused you of lying. Don't make character charge on me like that.
Secondly, the wage gap cannot work because it is economically illogical. This gained traction because the narrative is usually stronger than the truth. The truth is troublesome and dangerous, because the truth suggests that people make choices and their are ramifications for those choices. There is a law on the books that prohibits discrimination towards someone because of gender. Also, if you truly believed that women were getting paid 77 cents for every dollar a man makes, only women would be working. Why? Because those supposedly corporations would just hire women all day and just simply pay them less. Once again, statistically speaking, Women who work 40 hour weeks earn 88 percent of what men make. That doesn't mean that men and women work the same amount of hours overall. Turns out, many women who are married and have kids take the time out to have their kids. It's not surprising then that single women who have not married earn 96% of what men make. The 4% difference? That take into the account that men on average work riskier jobs and take on jobs with a higher risk of firing. It's also proven that men take on degrees that are in the STEM subjects more then that of women, and are more likely to ask their boss for a raise.
As for abortion, nobody has the right to kill an unborn child. That's not a reproductive right. Contraception is also more accessible than it has ever been in human history, so at this point is actually irresponsible to conceive a child you do not want.
Onto the rape culture topic, there is no doubt that rape and domestic violence are worth while things to talk about. However, it is also worth noting that there has never been any rapist in the history of the world that decided not to rape thanks to a Joe Biden service announcement. The fact that rape and domestic violence is on the rise is also nonsense. From 1995-2012, sexual assault victimization has declined by 58%, domestic violence fell by 63%, and serious intimate partner violence against women has dropped 72%.
That's why I'm saying that it's a great time to be women, and also why we don't need anymore of this whinny feminist B.S.
I don't know what else to say, if this isn't black and white enough I don't know what is.
Firstly, I never accused you of lying. Don't make character charge on me like that.
Except I told you of a wage gap that existed at her company, and you then proceeded to tell me it said gap is a myth.
Secondly, the wage gap cannot work because it is economically illogical. This gained traction because the narrative is usually stronger than the truth.
There is nothing economically illogical about it. It's deep rooted within the social sphere.
The truth is troublesome and dangerous, because the truth suggests that people make choices and their are ramifications for those choices.
Nobody denies that.
There is a law on the books that prohibits discrimination towards someone because of gender.
There's a lot of laws on the books that are incapable of actually doing what they intend. As a Conservative you should already know that.
Also, if you truly believed that women were getting paid 77 cents for every dollar a man makes, only women would be working. Why? Because those supposedly corporations would just hire women all day and just simply pay them less.
Assuming that payment was the only relevant factor in hiring, you would be right. The thing is, there are a lot more factors than that. Plus, I already addressed this "77 cents for every dollar" within a national sense and dismissed it, so why did you just bring it up?
Once again, statistically speaking, Women who work 40 hour weeks earn 88 percent of what men make. That doesn't mean that men and women work the same amount of hours overall. Turns out, many women who are married and have kids take the time out to have their kids.
And I brought up an entirely different situation that led to this conversation, yet you still decided to bring this up. You wanted an example of a wage gap, and I provided you an example of a woman who does work the same number of hours, in the same position, without kids, who makes less than her male equivalents. Instead of acknowledging the possibility that it might exist in some situations, you decided to actively change the facts of the situation to make it fit your preconception.
As for abortion, nobody has the right to kill an unborn child.
Legally they do. Philosophically, that is debatable, particularly the "child" part of it.
That's not a reproductive right.
Legally it is.
Contraception is also more accessible than it has ever been in human history, so at this point is actually irresponsible to conceive a child you do not want.
Which is why most abortions are not for intentional pregnancies.
Onto the rape culture topic, there is no doubt that rape and domestic violence are worth while things to talk about. However, it is also worth noting that there has never been any rapist in the history of the world that decided not to rape thanks to a Joe Biden service announcement.
We are in agreement. However, these obnoxious announcements and movements are what eventually lead to actual policy changes. Without people talking about it, changes don't occur. It's an ugly and obnoxious necessity.
The fact that rape and domestic violence is on the rise is also nonsense. From 1995-2012, sexual assault victimization has declined by 58%, domestic violence fell by 63%, and serious intimate partner violence against women has dropped 72%.
Except the majority of all discussions regarding "Rape Culture" take place within the context of college, and forcible rape reports went up 50% between 2008 and 2012 alone. You have to place the conversation within the context in order to figure out which statistics are actually relevant.
That's why I'm saying that it's a great time to be women, and also why we don't need anymore of this whinny feminist B.S.
But this sentence right here is evidence of how they are right. There are millions of women who are voicing concerns over a wide variety of issues, and you dismiss them all as "whinny feminist B.S.". Aside from how ignorant and patronizing it is, it is also indicative of our society's historical habit of dismissing women.
I don't know what else to say, if this isn't black and white enough I don't know what is.
That is the problem: This isn't a black and white issue. This issue is entirely gray by nature.
You don't seem to want to listen to numbers, so I'll try feelings and morality. I oppose this new wave of feminism, because I don't believe that this truly for equality. Feminist groups consistently harass, boycott, and in some cases even shut down Men' Rights meetings. If feminists were so pro-equality, they would want to extend the olive branch to Men's Rights groups instead of trying to silence them. (This is where my bias in the matter probably lies). First-wave feminism fought for Women's suffrage. Second-wave feminism fought for workplace rights. Now, third-wave feminism is fighting for the right for women to engage in self-destructive practices and get away with, while they make sure that men can't.
I addressed all numbers you presented, then gave you some that directly undermined some of yours. I'm more than willing to listen to more numbers you'd like to present.
I oppose this new wave of feminism
There is no singular new wave of feminism. That's the point.
because I don't believe that this truly for equality.
There is no this. There's a number of subsets of Modern Feminism that are vastly different ideologically. Some want what you would consider equality, some dismiss equality altogether, some have different concepts of what constitutes equality, etc.
Feminist groups consistently harass, boycott, and in some cases even shut down Men' Rights meetings.
Yeah, and the Westboro Church pickets soldier's funerals, so Christianity must hate our troops. Oh, and MRA activists often send death threats. If you are going to generalize the radicals of one group, you need to generalize the other.
If feminists were so pro-equality, they would want to extend the olive branch to Men's Rights groups instead of trying to silence them.
Why?
First-wave feminism fought for Women's suffrage.
Among some other things, yes.
Second-wave feminism fought for workplace rights
Among some other things, yes.
Now, third-wave feminism is fighting for the right for women to engage in self-destructive practices and get away with, while they make sure that men can't.
Women can go into into combat the day that they have to sign up for the selective service system. It's not discriminatory at all. When you have never registered with the selective service system, you can't go into combat.
As for Walmart, I don't know about that. If you could point to a specific case, I'll be happy to defend or oppose it with you.
As for Arabic countries, the existence of a government doesn't mean that a nation is developed. The Indus Valley civilization had a governmental structure, but they didn't even know the concept of the wheel existed.
If feminism means the support of all who share a common goal to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women including seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment then we definitely still need it because we haven't arrived there yet.
I need feminism because, even though such was not their intent, their actions have sparked additional scrutiny into injustices affecting other groups that might otherwise have gone scoffed at unanimously. Even now, many of these injustices are downplayed by the majority, but at least some are thinking about them now.
We need feminism the same way we need any other political group that hijacks an otherwise noble cause, we don't. The original structure of feminism fighting for equality has been replaced by a feminism that acts like any other special interest group; seeking special accommodations.
Feminism in the noble sense of the term should uphold a woman's equal status for equal accomplishment, the way the Marine Corps is currently doing by making physical standards the same regardless of gender while opening previously closed job sets to women
The special interest feminism usually associated with the movement today wants standards to be different for women who are seeking the same position, such as fire fighters.
Are you saying a woman is only equal and deserving of equality if she willing to forsake her femininity, and be perceived as gender neutral?
1st off, I agree we are all Americans, we all should contribute regardless of gender.
If war was to the severity to call a draft, there would be many opportunities for women to serve in time of war, without being added into combat draft requirements.
Women should be able to choose battlefield service but not be drafted to battlefield. Not all women by draft are suitable for combat.
1 it would be wrong to draft women who are not suitable for combat and place them in harms way.
2 it may not be safe for others in the troop to draft women who are not suitable for combat.
I don't believe deserving equality should cost me femininity, nor should it cost me my belief in feminine and masculine roles.
Does equality only work if we make every decision based on gender neutrality.
Women and men are different. We should celebrate, respect, and honor those differences and also still be equal.
I am feminine, I am equal because I am a woman. Not because I neutralized my gender.
Supporting Evidence:
Women in Combat
(www.militarytimes.com)
I don't "need" feminism at all. But what I do WANT is some degree of fairness and tolerance in society, and that's ultimately where the aspirations of equality come into play whether they're all achievable or not.
The world is a better place when we have diversity as well as enough fairness and tolerance that we all can strive toward happiness.
Actually, it is hardwired into women by their evolved DNA to be attracted to strong and often seemingly callous bigotted bad boy types.
They might have the feminist sympathizer nerdy dudes like that one in the pic as friends. But more often than not it's the arrogant but rugged and opinionated alpha dog who is gonna get into their panties.
Why?
From back in the hunter gatherer days when we were tribal.
Who took care of them?
Exactly.
Meek means weak and he doesn't get a peek!
LOL
Much less a creamy blowjob.
I have gotten way more pussy by playing the disinterested bad boy than I have the nice boy who listens.
