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Debate Info

61
34
Pro Gun Anti Gun
Debate Score:95
Arguments:74
Total Votes:129
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 Pro Gun (28)
 
 Anti Gun (15)

Debate Creator

carl19(6) pic



Pro/Anti Gun

 I am a pro gun, no gun control person. I am willing to debate as long as we remain kind and calm. NO RACISM, HOMOPHOBIA, SEXISM, TRANS-PHOBIA IS ALLOWED.

Pro Gun

Side Score: 61
VS.

Anti Gun

Side Score: 34
5 points

This is not a simplistic, black and white issue, no pun intended.

Yesterday was the 40th anniversary of the I.R.A., atrocity at the La Mon House Hotel near Belfast when twelve people were killed by the terrorist's incendiary bomb.

They had included sugar and napalm in their device so the burning material would cling to the victims more efficiently, and that it most certainly did, causing terrible life changing injuries.

Where there is a major psychotic hatred people will always find a way to slaughter their fellow human beings.

The I.R.A., bomb of 1972 killed two and caused horrific injuries to 130 innocent diners and shoppers at the Abercorn Cafe and surrounding area in Belfast.

In July 1972 nine people were murdered ( 7 civilians & two soldiers) and injured some 150 men women and children when the I.R.A., planted 19 bombs at and around Oxford Street Bus Station in Belfast.

Australia banned guns in 1997, or thereabouts, but since then there have been numerous murders and countless injuries caused by arson and gun and blunt instrument attacks.

Despite these figures I think it's best to be realistic about the issue and recognize that the banning, or much stricter control of guns would significantly reduce the carnage.

The implementation of any such firearm crackdown would be nigh impossible to fully enforce fairly and even Handedly.

In a buyback amnesty most honest, law abiding citizens would surrender their weapons whereas there would be 10s of 1000s of bad asses who wouldn't and we would have the situation whereby only the bad guys have guns.

Anyone who asserts that they have the answer to the gun issue in their back pocket is living in 'cloud cuckoo land.

Side: Pro Gun
3 points

Antrim,

You hit major points in the bull's eye.

Where there is a major psychotic hatred people will always find a way to slaughter their fellow human beings.

Yep,Frankly, we are VERY lucky people are mostly just using firearms. In my house are the makings for at least three extremely nasty weapons that would do far worse to many more people in a closed building than an AR-15 and several magazines.

In a buyback amnesty most honest, law abiding citizens would surrender their weapons whereas there would be 10s of 1000s of bad asses who wouldn't and we would have the situation whereby only the bad guys have guns.

Yep.

Side: Pro Gun
Dermot(5453) Clarified
2 points

Only the bad asses in my country have guns and guess who they kill with those guns , fellow criminals

Our police force are mostly unarmed except for senior detectives and the special branch , criminals do not shoot cops or the ordinary citizen over here

Side: Pro Gun
xMathFanx(1737) Clarified
0 points

@marcusmoon

we are VERY lucky people are mostly just using firearms. In my house are the makings for at least three extremely nasty weapons that would do far worse to many more people in a closed building than an AR-15 and several magazines.

Could you elaborate here? It seems (to me) you may be alluding to the construction of bombs (of some sort)?

Side: Pro Gun
NumberOne(445) Disputed
0 points

we are VERY lucky people are mostly just using firearms. In my house are the makings for at least three extremely nasty weapons that would do far worse to many more people in a closed building than an AR-15 and several magazines.

Yes, be sure to write to all the countless mothers whose children have been shot dead and explain to them how lucky they are. Instead of being dead from a gunshot wound they could easily be dead from something far worse.

Side: Anti Gun
Arsenal(219) Clarified
2 points

Typical gun nut NRA jungo babble.

and....uh....you conveniently neglected to mention that gun deaths have plummeted since the Aussies banned guns twenty years ago. And that they have not had One mass shooting.

Busted.

Cheers, mate

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-control/541710/

Side: Pro Gun
1 point

I think we should not have gun control because guns are one of the few things that we have that make us feel safe to go anywhere. You never know what you might run into when you go somewhere. If they took our guns away, all that would keep us safe from other people such as robbers or murderers would be our instincts.

Side: Pro Gun
2 points

Before I start, I just want to address that while our forefathers did give us the second amendment, I am aware that that can change. I do not believe it should be changed, but I also believe that reasoning that we should have guns solely because of the second amendment is absurd. I am pro gun because it keeps people safe. Guns are always going to be a thing, and limiting the ways to get guns LEGALLY will only put good people at risk. As an example, Chicago has strict gun laws but still a high amount of crime.

Side: Pro Gun
NumberOne(445) Disputed
1 point

As an example, Chicago has strict gun laws but still a high amount of crime.

That is because Chicago is sitting in the middle of a country where everybody else is allowed to own a gun. Obtaining a gun in Chicago is as easy as driving to Rockford.

limiting the ways to get guns LEGALLY will only put good people at risk

Contrary to the ridiculously stupid fantasy sold to most American idiots, life is not as simple as good guy versus bad guy. When people shoot you, most of the time they feel they have a good reason.

To be honest I just find your generic arguments to be an affront to both intelligence and reason.

Side: Anti Gun
outlaw60(15318) Disputed
2 points

LMMFAO Number 2 your avoidance of reality is just too glaring.

Why is it you avoid the number of gangs in Windy Town that run guns and dope ?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/by-the-numbers-chicago-area-gangs/

Chicago is the gang capital of the United States. According to the Chicago Crime Commission, a 2012 Chicago Police Department gang audit found there are more than 600 gang factions in the city, with a minimum combined membership of 70,000. As the number of gangs in the city increase, it's difficult for gangs to control large areas. Instead, gangs cling to streets. Territory disputes mean increased rivalry and as a result, more shootings.

Number 2 you have no argument just your lack of reality !

Side: Pro Gun
Dermot(5453) Clarified
1 point

In fairness and it’s too your credit , you’re one of few Americans who admit that its absurd to say Americans should have guns because the second amendment says so .

You also say ............I am pro gun because it keeps people safe......

Keeps you safe from who or what ?

Why is it Americans need guns to keep and feel safe ?

Is America that dysfunctional that you really need a gun to feel safe , how come I or fellow citizens in my country ( Republic of Ireland ) do not need to carry a weapon to feel safe ?

Why is America so much more violent as a society that its citizens only feel safe by carrying a gun ?

Is the U S such a brutally violent place that the only way you feel safe is but carrying a weapon , I would hate to live that way .

Side: Pro Gun
NumberOne(445) Disputed
-1 points

I am pro gun because it keeps people safe.

You think people are safe in a country where everybody is walking around with the ability to take down half a city block?

Jesus Christ. Are you mad? Look at your violent crime statistics. Look at the sheer amount of school shootings.

Try telling all the kids murdered by guns that they are safer because Americans have been brainwashed by gun culture.

Side: Anti Gun
outlaw60(15318) Disputed
3 points

LMMFAO Number 2 says everyone is walking around with the ability to take down a city block but the fool you are you can't back up your insane comment with any fact.

Number 2 let me ask you a question okay ?

What Progressive common sense gun law is going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals ?

Side: Pro Gun
marcusmoon(582) Disputed
2 points

Nomenclature,

You think people are safe in a country where everybody is walking around with the ability to take down half a city block?

I assume by the stuff you are writing that you have never been to the US.

It is obvious you know few, if any gun owners. True, I am one of three people at my workplace who does not own a gun. Only three of the sixty people I work with have concealed carry gun permits, and only one of them routinely goes out armed.

Jesus Christ. Are you mad? Look at your violent crime statistics. Look at the sheer amount of school shootings.

School shootings (during hours when kids are present) are extremely rare. The CDC stats indicate 14-34 school related homicides yearly in the US. Given the rate of traffic deaths (37,000 people in 2016) vice gun homicides (11,800 in 2016), it is clear that kids are safer at school than when being driven to school.

Side: Pro Gun
1 point

Hello c:

Guns are things.. Things are inanimate, and not capable of doing wrong or right.. I'm not anti things. I'm anti bad behavior..

It's like, am I anti safety pins?? No, but I AM anti sticking one in somebody's eye..

excon

Side: Pro Gun
1 point

"Guns don't kill people, people WITH guns kill people."

Assault weapons don't kill people, people with assault weapons kill a LOT of people! But, Americans, like no other people on Earth, MUST have the "biggest, baddest toys ... because they have RIGHTS". Any "right" can be abused, and when a CHILD abuses his rights s/he gets punished. The biggest, baddest children should have their toys taken away if they abuse them. The biggest baddest children shouldn't even be allowed to play with KNIVES, let alone assault weapons. Protect our children, take the most dangerous toys away from these "children".

Side: Pro Gun
outlaw60(15318) Disputed
2 points

Crazy Al do you remember this ?

Authorities have identified the suspect who opened fire on the Republican congressional baseball team practice early Wednesday morning in Alexandria, Virginia, as James T. Hodgkinson, 66, of Belleville, Illinois. More details about Hodgkinson, who died after being shot by heroic Capitol Hill Police officers, have begun to emerge, presenting a picture of a man with a violent past who was virulently anti-Republican and anti-Donald Trump and a passionate supporter of Bernie Sanders.

In response to reports that Hodgkinson had volunteered on his Democratic presidential primary campaign, Sen. Bernie Sanders issued a statement a few hours after the attack decrying the suspect's "despicable act" and disavowing all violence.

"I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign. I am sickened by this despicable act," Sanders said in the statement. "Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms; Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values."

Hodgkinson broadcast his political opinions on multiple Facebook accounts and appears to have been a member of several anti-Republican and anti-Trump groups, including, "Terminate the Republican Party," "The Road to Hell is Paved with Republicans," "Illinois Berners United to Resist Trump," and "Donald Trump is not my President."

The paper from Hodgkinson's hometown in Illinois, The Belleville News-Democrat, has provided one of the most thorough portraits of the suspect yet, including several quotes from neighbors. The paper confirmed that he took a Democratic ballot in the 2016 primary and was part of a left-wing "99%" protest in 2012. His neighbors knew him as a "hardcore" Democrat, but seemed shocked that he would act violently.

Crazy Al i didn't hear anything about gun control from Progressives when the above incident took place.

Side: Anti Gun
1 point

“I have long advocated — this is not what today is about — but there are too many guns on the streets,” he said to reporters. He added, "I have long talked about this --- background checks and shutting down gun show loopholes.  And that’s not for today’s discussion, but it’s not just about politicians. We worry about this every day for all of our citizens.”

Democratic Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe ref

Side: Pro Gun
outlaw60(15318) Disputed
1 point

Crazy Al where was all the outrage ? Is it because it was Republicans and not children ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/congressional-shooter-loved-bernie-sanders-hated-racist-and-sexist-republicans

Not a peep of the Progressive Gun Control Crowd Al !

Blatantly obvious Al you Progressives want to use the children as a pawn for your Progressive ideology on gun confiscation.

Side: Anti Gun
1 point

Not a peep

"I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign. I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values.

"My hopes and prayers are that Representative Scalise, congressional staff and the Capitol Police Officers who were wounded make a quick and full recovery. I also want to thank the Capitol Police for their heroic actions to prevent further harm."

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/ press-releases/sanders-statement-on-alexandria-shooter

The response then was the same as it has been for all the shootings since - everybody sent thoughts and prayers, Dems talked about gun control, Republicans said the answer was more guns and, in the end, nothing happened - again.

Side: Pro Gun
1 point

Mao Zedong: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

While in previous ages it was the sword this fundamental truth of power has not changed. All political power comes ultimately from the ability to utilize force. The balance of power between the state and the citizen has and presumably always will lean on the side of the state, however the degree of this imbalance is of great import. In western liberal democracies we have a better balance of power than in North Korea and this is part of why our people are treated so well relative to these nations. By making those who wield force somewhat accountable to the people, we thereby create a better balance of power between state and citizen. The ability of the citizenry to utilize force themselves grants further power to the citizenry, resulting in a more equitable balance of power. As aforementioned, this balance of power results in better conditions for the citizenry.

There is also the fact that in the U.S. there are more guns than people and this would make things incredibly difficult for any tyrannical government that may emerge from within or invade from without. The civilian resistance would inspire and enable a multitude of military turncoats; if no civilian resistance existed then military desertion wouldn't happen at anywhere near the same rate. This is both because resistance wouldn't seem as futile and there would be an existing force to join. As for a fear of a government becoming oppressive being unfounded, I would point simply to the fact that over a long enough time frame an oppressive government is inevitable. This is not to mention the fact that advances in technology mean that progressively smaller numbers of people can control increasingly large populations.

There is also the issue that to defend oneself against an armed or stronger attacker, rapist, thief, etc. one requires a weapon. The police do not typically arrive until after the crime has taken place. I don't believe that people's ability to defend themselves and their property should be taken away simply because other people are irresponsible.

Side: Pro Gun
Dermot(5453) Disputed
2 points

You say ....There is also the issue that to defend oneself against an armed or stronger attacker, rapist, thief, etc. one requires a weapon. The police do not typically arrive until after the crime has taken place. I don't believe that people's ability to defend themselves and their property should be taken away simply because other people are irresponsible.........

Is the U S so incredibly dysfunctional that one needs a gun to defend ones family from attackers , rapists and thieves ? I lived in L A and was never once thereatened , attacked or my wife raped , how it really got so dysfunctional since I last lived there ?

Side: Anti Gun
outlaw60(15318) Clarified
1 point

Dermot here is a read for you.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-crime-stats-20161227-story.html

California is dysfunctional and Los Angeles Times shows it.

So wondering why one would need a gun to defend themselves , property and family in LA is not even a question.

Side: Pro Gun
marcusmoon(582) Disputed
1 point

Is the U S so incredibly dysfunctional that one needs a gun to defend ones family from attackers , rapists and thieves ? I lived in L A and was never once thereatened , attacked or my wife raped , how it really got so dysfunctional since I last lived there ?

Nope, it functions pretty well for a nation of 330,000,000 people. Part of that is gun ownership.

One set of stats I came across is that (depending on the state) between 2% and 5% of the people in public are legally carrying a gun. That means that in a restaurant with 100 customers in California, possibly 2 people are armed, or in Texas, possibly 5. Neither you nor a criminal can look around and tell who has a gun.

There are indications that this confers a level of safety on members of society who do not have guns, such as the other 95 people in the Texas Restaurant. One such indication is that we generally see mass shootings only in gun-free zones, places where the homicidal dickhead knows he will be the only person with a gun.

It is not unreasonable to propose that one reason your wife was not raped, and you were not robbed is that the criminals could not tell if either of you were carrying a firearm.

Side: Pro Gun
WinstonC(1226) Clarified
1 point

"Is the U S so incredibly dysfunctional that one needs a gun to defend ones family from attackers , rapists and thieves ? I lived in L A and was never once thereatened , attacked or my wife raped , how it really got so dysfunctional since I last lived there ?"

Wherever you go, there is the risk that you will be attacked, raped or robbed. Statistically, these things aren't amazingly common, however they do happen often enough to be a concern. My home has never been robbed, yet I still take the precaution of having a security system.

Side: Pro Gun
1 point

I think the better term would be pro second amendment, but otherwise I would agree

Side: Pro Gun

Pro gun. Anyone who brings up the stupid argument on how guns have killed many people I.e. school shootings. Is dumb. It’s not the gun killing, the gun is simply the tool. The thing killing is the person.

Side: Pro Gun
5 points

The sole purpose of a gun is to kill , Americans collectively bury their heads in the sand every time another shooting happens and repeat tired nauseous mantras as in “ guns don’t kill people , people kill people “

Over 1 million people have died since the 60’s in America from gun deaths and thats not counting gun injuries , and still Americans say it’s not a problem , the love of the gun is cultural and how dare anyone interfere with this “ right “ to carry

Is the U S such a dreadful place that its citizens feel so utterly helpless unless they can carry a gun , what a dreadful way to live and if that’s what makes a civilized society count me out

Side: Anti Gun
marcusmoon(582) Disputed
4 points

Dermot, my friend.

Over 1 million people have died since the 60’s in America from gun deaths and thats not counting gun injuries , and still Americans say it’s not a problem

People dying is not a problem, strictly speaking. It is a basic condition of life.

"No one gets out of here alive." (Jim Morrison)

Our Reactions

Truly I understand the emotional reaction to the fact that death is a basic fact of life, a law of nature. Stephen Crane wrote,

When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important, and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples. Any visible expression of nature would surely be pelleted with his jeers.

Then, if there be no tangible thing to hoot he feels, perhaps, the desire to confront a personification and indulge in pleas, bowed to one knee, and with hands supplicant, saying: “Yes, but I love myself.”

In our love for ourselves, we tend to want to discount the complexity of reality in our outrage, and dish our blame out unevenly, and out of perspective with statistical realities.

We lump our unhappiness into categories by proximate causes categorized by the tools involved, and never consider how common (or not) any of these things really are.

Imbalanced Thinking

We hear of a school shooting and a shallow statistic for firearm deaths, and in a fit of conflation, forget that about two thirds of US gun deaths are suicides. The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention puts yearly suicide rate at almost 45,000, slightly over half of which are by gun. Like it or not people who want to kill themselves have enough methods available, and getting rid of guns would not change the outcome significantly.

We have adjusted to the fact that that as many people die in car wrecks as by guns. Somehow we are smart enough to accept automobile deaths (and all the paraplegia, quadriplegia, brain damage, wrecked faces, etc.) as a natural part of modern life. We know that cars are not the problem, and that carelessness is endemic to people, and seek to reduce that, but we do not want to apply the same principle to guns.

We do not want to admit that people are the problem, and that NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, there will always be some dickhead who wants to shit in the pool, whether by using a gun, a machete, an axe, or bleach and ammonia. Which tools these dickheads use is not a particularly big part of the problem.

Perspective

Consider, the CDC reports US gun homicides in 2014 at 11,800 (3.5/100,000 people.)

By contrast, that same year there were 32,700 deaths in car wrecks(10.3/100,000 people).

The stats run about the same for most years, though from 1963-2007 the yearly highway death toll was always above 40,000, and often above 50,000.

There are ways to mitigate this, and we have improved the car wreck problem markedly, but no sane person thinks we would solve death by eliminating cars.

We need to keep some perspective in all of this.

Consider also:

- 50,000 opioid deaths in the US in 2016.

- 32,000 deaths by accidental falls (10/100,000 people).

- 42,000 deaths by accidental poisoning (13.2/100,000 people).

How do 11,800 gun homicides really compare?

Reasonable Responses

Principles of Project Management teach us the following:

- 1 - Some risks we can transfer, usually these are financial risks, and the transfer involves an insurance policy. Sometimes it is trading one risk for another.

- 2 - Some risks we can mitigate, either by reducing likelihood, or reducing impact.

- 3 - Some risks we can avoid, usually by changing the scope of the project, or cancelling it altogether.

- 4 - Most risks (whether mitigated or not) we must ultimately accept.

Lots of people want to go with option 1 and trade risks to freedom for risks to safety, but as the reality with auto deaths demonstrates, that is not going to address the problem effectively.

The risk of dying before we are old, however we might try to mitigate it (category 2) is not avoidable (category 3) and is ultimately in category number four.

It is silly for people to deny that.

Would it make you feel better to go and throw a brick at a temple?

; )

Side: Pro Gun
3 points

I think it comes down to whether people believe that self-defense and the defense of one's property and liberty are worthwhile benefits. The fact that three times more people are killed by cars than by homicides by gun is not seen as a reason to ban cars, after all. The reason for this difference must be the belief that being able to travel quickly is a more worthwhile benefit than the defense of one's self, property and liberty.

Side: Pro Gun
Dermot(5453) Disputed
1 point

But I never said people dying was a problem but the way they die is as in gun related deaths is , to me anyway , you think not why ?

Emotional reaction ? Yes , I admit I get a tad “ emotional “ when I see yet more children slaughtered in the U S through a nutter who can freely obtain a gun and end the life of innocents .

I wonder if Stephen Cranes musings will offer solace to the victims families of the latest outrage , what do you think ?

So yes , Imbalanced thinking leads me to think civilized societies need guns to function effectively

I know you Americans have a love affair with the gun , I get it , why can you not at least admit it ?

Side: Anti Gun
outlaw60(15318) Clarified
1 point

Now Dermot i must address an issue that you are unaware of as are must that oppose guns.

Gun Shops/Firearm Manufacturers in New York

Alamo Gun Shop /Firearm Manufacturer

551 Stewarts Corners Rd

Pennellville, NY 13132-3234

Custom Shop/Firearm Dealer/Gunsmith / Firearm Manufacturer

PO Box 46

Walworth,NY 14568-9460

Lono Group/Firearm Dealer/Gunsmith, Ammunition Manufacturer, Firearm Manufacturer, Firearm Importer

321 E Lake Rd

Honeoye, NY 14471-0000

LRB Sales/Firearm Dealer/Gunsmith, Firearm Manufacturer

96 Cherry Ln

Floral Park, NY 11001-1614

Majestic Arms LTD/Firearm Manufacturer

101 Ellis St # A

Staten Island, NY 10307-1116

Otis Technology Inc /Firearm Manufacturer

PO Box 582

Lyons Falls, NY 13368-1802

Pumpkin Mountain Gun Shop /Firearm Dealer/Gunsmith, Ammunition Manufacturer, Firearm Manufacturer, Firearm Importer

State Route 28

Blue Mountain Lake, NY 12812-0000

R T Smoke & Gun /Firearm Dealer/Gunsmith, Firearm Manufacturer

4 S 6th Ave

Mt Vernon, NY 10550-3005

Rohrbaugh Firearms Corp/Firearm Manufacturer

73 E Jefryn Blvd

Deer Park NY 11729-5713

Special Arms The Gun Store/Firearm Manufacturer

4432 State Highway 30

Amsterdam, NY 12010-6208

http://www.armsdealer.net/businesses/category/gun-shops/new-york?ffl=07

Now if the Progressive Anti-Gun Advocates in New York oppose guns then why is they allow these businesses to operate in that state ?

Side: Pro Gun
Dermot(5453) Clarified
1 point

Outlaw , I’m not aware of the actions of anti gun groups in the U S , I do know for a fact that guns are a problem in the U S

How can I live freely in a society where our citizens don’t need guns yet Americans do ?

Side: Pro Gun
JustIgnoreMe(3584) Clarified
1 point

10 guns stores in a state with 20 million people is supposed to mean what?

Side: Pro Gun
marcusmoon(582) Disputed
-2 points
NumberOne(445) Disputed
2 points

but it is also untrue that the primary purpose of a gun is to kill.

That's where I stopped reading and downvoted you for being stupid. I suppose it is just coincidence that we arm military units with guns. Clearly, they are supposed to be given as presents to the enemy, but soldiers are just using them wrong.

Side: Anti Gun
1 point

Guns are weapons whose sole design purpose is to take life and/or cause serious injury. That means they have no place in a civilised society.

Side: Anti Gun