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Your question is out of chronological order. The Old Testament came first then the New Testament. As for obey or be smited you will have to be more clear.
No that is exactly my point. Christ's New Testament is about loving thy neighbor as well as God being loving, whereas the Old Testament is full of fire and brimstone and fear. So how is it all these Christians on this site post constantly hate and try to stoke fear? Why is it they use religion as a blunt object to bludgeon instead of as a happy message of love?
They do it because they completely missed the true message and example set by Christ.
You are right with many points but misunderstood in others. God is love and this is how he wants his children to behave. Don't forget that God is also just and a disciplinarian. Romans 12:19 "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says the Lord. I agree not all Christian follow Jesus correctly. As for sarcasm It really isn't the best part of language. Misunderstandings.
Indeed, he wouldn't be a God if he didn't have rules. I'm not saying he didn't tell people what to do. I'm saying he didn't act like a jerk to people about it. And that's what's sorely missing in the contemporary Christians.
I cannot speak for all of us, but the new testament is (to some degree) what makes us christian, we are supposed to be followers of Christ. I too agree that the arguments some "Christians" on this site border on "Follow the Cautionary principle or else" I think it's factory default mode, and some people never learn to rationally argument.
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(Slight rant incoming)
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That said there are some arguments I get dragged into that I refuse to support my opinion because, I admit my feeling is little more than gut feeling and conjecture. and I wish that I could reasonably say "This is how I feel on the subject, No amount of reasoning will yet change that feeling." without someone Insisting that I must change because I have no valid reasoning. sometimes I just haven't thought a problem all the way through. and so I can't pull an argument out of my butt on the fly, make it seem reasonable and convincing and not be paper thin....you get me?... that's partially why I'm on this cite. to get used to the skill of pulling good arguments out of my butt and sharpening my world view.
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problem is a lot of people can't seem to allow a world view vastly different than their own to exist. and I feel like you get attacks on your lens when you attempt an unrelated point. and this abuse kinda comes from both sides. a worldview can't really be inherently wrong. it's basically like a set of reading glasses. helps you read and interpret the data, but in the end the data doesn't lie...you get me?
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I think at this point I'm more chatting than arguing heh
You are wrong here. The first and greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind. When you are not upholding that standard, "love your neighbor" won't do you or your neighbor any good.
Ahh this explains it. You think you dont have to follow the whole Bible you just have to get a hard on over Christ. I see. Sorry, but youre going to hell buddy.
Jesus said unless your righteousness exceeds that of scribes
and pharasees.
Law condemns because if you live by the law and break any
the whole Law, the Law judges you, with your consciece bearing witness against you. With the accuser of the brethern accusing
like scoffing crowd declaring the light an enemy disclosing
darkness within us. Thus holding us, binding us to the flesh, enslaved to obey desires, and held captive in darkness till
judgement
Law was written in Adam's conscience at his Creation.
But, Knowledge Condemning Conscience didn't exist till after
knowledge of good and evil entered through Deception and from Disobedience. Then evil came into bear fruit of thistles and thorns After serpent decieved, then beyond that taking root of sin through disobedience. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field; (two men in the field, one taken and one left, ... where Lord? Where the body is the vultures are gathered. - the body is following flesh to death, or be grain of wheat falls to ground and die, bears fruit)
Now, both seeds grew in them. God says
Seeds then growing on ground are seeds of darkness and light. Choosing one or the other. Then not only obey or disobey but
now seed of darkness is growing and the accuser condemning
us according to our consciences.
Jesus did a few things when He came to us.
When Jesus took on humanity as fully the Nature of God and fully the nature of man, He overcame all things in every way, mastering His human nature making it in complete subjection to the Nature of God.
God came down as the Son, to be the 1st of many to bring forth children of God, and of the not of the nature of Adam or even the body of Adam, but transform or human bodies into bodies like Jesus, into not only the image of God, but to share and partake OF AN inheritance of being transformed into the Nature of God, not just the image of God.
So Jesus, "the Son of man, and the Son of God, went before us and Ripped out all the thorns and thistles that were in the way, Making the "narrow way" which IS the ONLY WAY, Straight - Not a Crooked Path, to Transform Us, and Transfer Us, from our Human Nature through His cleared path to all who believe on Him, and follow Him, so we can be "called children of God, and "partake in His Nature.
If you look at Genesis 3 He says - To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”
Because of allowing herself to be decieved - it was already going to be pain to birth Seed into the transforming God was going to do,
but now it is multiplied
And now you will have to wait for the Bridegroom.
While to the 1st Adam to be transformed, he will fight through the cursed ground to be transformed into our Heavenly bodies.
So it had to happen through transformation from our human nature made in the Image of God, to the Nature of God as a gift of adoption in order for us to share in His inheritance.
But the struggle of the curses put on the serpant - on belly creating an appetite to feed on the lusts and of eating dust and enmity with seed and woman. And curses on the ground toil thorns thistles struggle and then death. With these curses that entered the world our transformation has these added dynamics.
And I'm not sure of the how without sin in the world, but I do know the mystery of God from the beginning was to change us from an Image of God to partake in a Heavenly Body as Jesus brought forth sons that are image of the Son.
Rom 8
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren
And 1 Corinthians 15
35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” 36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; 37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there
is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last
Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48 As is the earthy,
so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also
are those who are heavenly. 49 Just as we have borne the image
of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.
Making us, mere children of flesh, to become children of God.
So Jesus is the 1st of many brethern (or sisteren, lol) to walk through our nature into the nature of God! For us to pick up our cross and follow the path. He says it's a narrow road to Eternal
Life, where as the road to sin and death is a highway.
Jesus led a life leaving His position of God, to be made for a little while lower than the Angels. So God's the Son who is and always was the nature of the Father, humbled himself as a man like us, to overcome all things, to then be delivered in His innocence as the spotless lamb, the blood sacrifice once and for all, who became
the innocent Lamb, cursed for us on a tree, on which our every judgement fell.
Then raised from the dead, He overcome both sin, judgement, and death that we ourselves couldn't separate or sever in our own human nature, which it's struggles in toil with thorns and thistles, and our dust to dust death. To give us rest, The Holy Spirit imparted to all who are Born Again through this path, "The Way, The Truth, And The Life," that Jesus made for us.
if you're not christian then you're not waiting for the messiah, then you can be saved by yourself. we are messianic people waiting on the messiah while he tarries, and doing his works . although some are christans by name only and not actions or faith.
Jews aren't Christian, and they are still waiting for the Messiah. If Christianity really believes the Messiah has already come, why do you still have to wait for the Messiah to get here to make everything better?
He accomplished something no one has ever accomplish and never will accomplish. He lived a life perfectly according to God's commandments. When he was ask to lie to save his life he chose to do God's will and suffer death. Without sin, he didn't deserve death. So his death paid for all of our sins. After his death he decided to hell to preach the gospel and give them that were in hell an option to repent, accept God's word as there Lord and Saviour so they can be saved. Most people would call someone who sacrificed his life to save others a hero.
Without sin, he didn't deserve death. So his death paid for all of our sins.
Few things. One, he didn't deserve death from the start, as he was innocent of original sin by nature of being the child of god/ partially god.
Second, his death didn't pay for all our sins, even according to Christian theology. It simply opened up the ability for a small number of people to go to heaven. We are still subject to original sin, and most people still go to Hell, according to the Bible.
After his death he decided to hell to preach the gospel and give them that were in hell an option to repent, accept God's word as there Lord and Saviour so they can be saved.
Out of curiosity, what part of scripture are you referring to here, when you speak of offering salvation to those in Heaven, and from your understanding, how many of them could actually go to Heaven?
Most people would call someone who sacrificed his life to save others a hero.
Only if it was selfless. By nature of being God, Jesus is essentially saying "Worship me, or else you will still burn in hell". That isn't selfless at all.
Spartacus I can see you are a great thinker. Your first statement is the only correct one. As for the other statements I'm not for sure where or who your source of information is coming from. His death: Romans 5:17-18 "for if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the Offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, in thee shall all nations be blessed." John 1:16-17 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." The numbers you speak of "small and most" doesn't take away the fact that everyone has a choice. Grace and salvation is given to all as a gift but like any gift if the receiver doesn't accept it he or she will not get the blessing that come with the gift. On to the next topic. You misread my statement I mention hell not heaven. I noticed an auto correct mistake in "after his death he decided, which was supposed to be after his death he descended". My apologies. Ephesians 4 "Wherefore he said, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 1 Peter 3:18-20 For Christ also have once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirit in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." As for the question of Heaven? The gift of God is everlasting life. As for Heaven, Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Please understand this Heaven is like God's kingdom and the earth his city. The new Heaven is reserved for those who gave up everything for Jesus (God's Word). The new Earth is for those who accepted Jesus as there lord and saviour but lived everyday Christian lives. I could elaborate if needed. So to answer your question 144,000 will live in the New Heaven and a innumerable amount of souls will live in the New Earth all receiving everlasting life. Let me know if you would like the scriptures in which I answered this question. Your last statement is incorrect. If what you said is correct there would have been no need for The Son of God to come to earth and suffer pain and affliction, rejection, reviling, and death. What he did was do the works of righteousness for us. He didn't have to do this for himself he did it for us. As for the "worship me or else comment. I can only speak for myself, I worship God because it is the right thing to do. I owe my existence and every good thing that has ever happened to me to him. So I give him praise daily because I'm thankful for what he has done and continue to do for me.
He accomplished something no one has ever accomplish and never will accomplish.
He accomplished as much of the Messiah's job as I will in my life.
He lived a life perfectly according to God's commandments.
No, He didn't. We give Him a pass on stuff because no matter what God does it is sinless.
When he was ask to lie to save his life he chose to do God's will and suffer death.
He is God. No matter what He did He was doing God's will.
Without sin, he didn't deserve death. So his death paid for all of our sins.
Oh awesome. More intangible accomplishments.
After his death he decided to hell to preach the gospel and give them that were in hell an option to repent, accept God's word as there Lord and Saviour so they can be saved.
He is supposed to bring peace to Earth, not to heaven.
Most people would call someone who sacrificed his life to save others a hero.
We only call those people heroes when the people they save aren't dead.
Did you read Spartacus question? I applaud his questions. Why does it seem to me that you are just yelling out insults instead of trying to understand Christians. I could be wrong but is your first statement an insult to Jesus or am I misunderstanding you? Your second statement is incorrect. If you would like to know what Jesus did with his life read the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) they all recorded Jesus life on earth. This Will help you give a more informed answer. Your third statement: Jesus is the word of God, God's only begotten son. Your forth statement: Your first statement said you will do as much as Jesus. Your fifth statement: Jesus will fill all in Heaven and Earth. Your sixth statement: I don't understand again, maybe due to it being an insult again? But I don't know you tell me?
My first statement was an insult to anyone stupid enough to follow a Messiah who didn't fulfill anything Messiah like.
For my second statement, I meant he didn't doing anything useful. The Bible passages you pointed to state exactly that.
My third statement is a common belief held by Christians. The father, son, and holy spirit.
I don't see what the problem with my fourth statement was. Jesus accomplished nothing. I started off accomplishing nothing and I still have.
For my fifth statement you just show that Jesus hasn't done anything. If you say He will do it you are saying that He will do it in the future and hasn't actually accomplished it yet.
My sixth statement was not an insult. It was simple facts. If you want to be a hero you need to prevent someone from dying. Jesus only saves you after you die.
Foil7 understanding of the Bible isn't trustworthy. The scripture he is referring to is Genesis 38:9-10 (And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.) In the time of this event the rules were. If your brother died without having a son you were to marry his widow and raise up an heir in his brother's name. Onan wanted to have sex with Tamar but didn't want to fulfill his duties as a brother.
anything involving turning away from God's directive of leaving selfishness behind, opens one to fleshly weakness turns you into a slave of sin why would you go back ? we're here already dying from the time we're born into sin. why would you take off your hands off the steering wheel and head straight into wall
Jesus was a socialist. We live in the most money obcessed society in the world. And it's supposed to be founded on christian foundation? Things that make me go hmmm?
Actually, Jesus was a Marxist. He didn't call for government redistribution, he called for social responsibility:
"Acts 4:32–35: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."
Jesus is neither of them. He is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. Jesus created Karl Marx. So how and when can the creator be put under the rules of the created?
WE, as MEN, are responsible for what we "create", whether it be a faulty bridge that collapsed, or a faulty drug that kills or maims. If Jesus "created" Hitler, Genghis Kahn or Stalin .... isn't HE responsible?? And for the millions of deaths resulting??
I don't believe "HE" created them, or that HE is responsible. I don't think HE is responsible for the millions killed by the differences in the religious doctrines written by MAN! MAN is responsible for "Creating" these stories to get the control of THEIR masses, and turn them against anyone who wont follow THEIR doctrine! Probably a MAN named Jesus did exist. Likely a charismatic man (we have seen many of them), and likely a MAN with a message of peace, WE certainly don't KNOW. We only know what the man made doctrines WANT us to "know".
That argument has been repeated, but doesn't make sense.
A Marxist is not one who follows Karl Marx, it is one who adheres to a set of ideologies that Marx simply wrote about. The chronological order of events does not change the set of beliefs involved, nor does it change the term we currently use to describe set beliefs.
Our country in many ways have turned away from the Word of God. They have passed laws directly against God's Word. You would like to blame this and every bad thing on Christians just because we are the majority. Your claims are false. Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn't make them one. Here is what Jesus said (““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’”)
You are blinded by satan's lies he is trying to corrupt Christianity. “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Jesus was not a socialist. There is one socialist described in the Bible and it's not Jesus.
From John 12:.....
3Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. son, which should betray him,'>4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, 5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.
Socialists want to control the money because they are thieves. They do not produce anything, just try to control what is produced so they can steal from it.
No, but I said he punishes if you don't stop questioning. I'm not talking about conditional belief, I am talking about actual questioning.
For example: Despite being raised Christian, I have too many questions to actually believe in the Abrahamic God. According to the Bible, that alone, regardless of how good and just I live my life, is enough for me to be tortured for all of eternity.
Not for the equivalent of my of life time, not some set number of years, for eternity.
That's not loving. That's not just. That's not benevolent. That is sadistic vanity.
And I hope that last part doesn't come across as a personal attack because I assure you I am not trying to be disrespectful towards you at all. But being raised Christian, with all of the Christian dogma/doctrine (using that literally, not dismissively) has led me to believe that the god described by these faiths is easily the most evil figure within said theologies.
I warn all, Christians included not to judge anyone before the judgment day. How good and just anyone lives there life isn't enough. Because all have sinned. The payment for sin is death. This is not something anyone can run away from. God understanding this gave us an way to get out of it and his name is Jesus. Just because a father punishes his son doesn't mean he doesn't love him. Now the question of eternal punishment. This is reserved for those who have made themselves God's enemies. It was there choice. They know what the out come will be but in them pride and rebellion, deceitfulness of this would has turned them away from there creator. God is worthy of our praise and obedience. Why do you call him evil because you don't agree with his decision to punish those who practice evil? Or with his measures of punishment. He is an all knowing God and he doesn't want to lose you neither does he want to punish you. In some countries the punishment for murder is death. There are some people that have the urge to commit murder for there own reasons. But this punishment could persuade them to change there mind. Now many people have decided to make God there enemy knowing the punishment to come.
Matthew 7:14 says that the overwhelming majority of people would be, by your definition, God's enemies. The majority of the species that he created. The majority of the people that worship him.
Any god that creates a form of eternal punishment for mortal creatures is evil.
Your sin has you under penalty of death, you are on death row, God is being merciful to you now if you are not burning in Hell and His patience will expire if you will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who died for you to save you from Hell.
I'm not for sure of Bill Gates beliefs. Neither can anyone before judgment day determine whether he will go to Earth, Heaven or Hell. As for his donations no one can buy themselves into Heaven. Understand this God is life. If atheist don't believe in God how can they believe in Heaven and Hell. And if this be so why be concerned with where he will end up.
Few questions before I answer you. Are you Bill Gates? If you are Bill Gates why have you chosen to be an Atheist? If you are not Bill Gate how do you know what is going on in his heart?
Bill gates is a sinner who will pay for His sin in Hell if He will not believe on God who took His place in death to save him from Hell....same goes for you
My point exactly. Christians do NOT make the final judgement (if there is such a thing). Society makes the final judgement, legally, if one is to be made. Christians may make judgements in their minds, ( IF they want to go against the (alleged) teachings of Jesus, "Judge not, lest ye be judged"), but so many of them think, apparently, that their "god" is incapable of judgement so they MUST do it themselves!
The Bible is TOTALLY hearsay. It was written (compiled) by MAN centuries after the "fact"! HOW can it be considered ANYTHING but hearsay??
(Hearsay-gossip, rumors, tittle-tattle). The Bible is none of these things. The Bible is full of prophecies that have come to pass. The historians that document an event do you refer to there accounts as hearsay? Just because you're Grandfather tells you a story about his life does this automatically make him a Liar? Why would you call witnesses that walked with, talked with, and lived with Jesus gossipers? You seem upset with God. Why have you set yourself against God? Why would you deny your Lord and Saviour when all he is telling you to do is be righteous? What is your grievance with the Lord of host? The way you write you must have hated history class.
How do you justify your particular religious beliefs, knowing that if you're wrong, there might be another deity out there who will judge you the same as the god you believed in would judge others for not believing in him?
That's a dumb question. You cannot justify religious beliefs. See my debate "Pascal's Wager is always a losing bet." All of the atheists and everybody else arguing against me there completely gave up.
Would you like me to respond with "that's a dumb answer"? Or are we going to move passed unwarranted opinions about what others post as their response?
I also do not care about any other thread. This particular thread welcomed questions for Christians, where Christians would then respond with their answer here. You haven't really answered the question if you say "the answer is at this other place." The goal is to bring the answer here.
But I suppose my wording was a bit more demanding of evidence than I had intended. Let me rephrase,
How have you been convinced that Christianity is right -- knowing that other belief systems also call for non-believers not to be deserving of paradise? Why take that wager? And if it's not seen as a wager, what has convinced you otherwise?
I answered all of this in my discussion on Pascal's Wager, and if you won't read it there, why should I repeat it here? It only takes two mouse clicks to find it. If you really have the goal of bringing the answer here, go get it and come back with statements in response or new questions. The questions and remarks you have here are old and I'm not going to repeat them for you at this time when I worked hard on them in "Pascal's Wager is Always a Losing Bet"..........
Well, I guess your final question was precise enough, so I'll reluctantly give you a precise answer which you will probably think it too brief and simple and I will refer you back to my aforementioned thread on Pascal's Wager.
Religion is about what you can do to ascertain that you will not be punished in death and can try to earn the right to exist outside of Hell. Religion is about what you are supposed to do in order to have good odds of not burning in Hell forever.
Jesus Christ is a person, not a religion. Knowing God through Jesus Christ is understanding what He did for us when He took our place in death, conquered death, and offers His resurrection power to all who believe on Him and ask God in His name to save them. This is reality of what God did for us to save us from our sins, save us from eternal dying, save us from being forever separated from God in Hell. God Himself became a man and paid our price so He can be just to forgive in His resurrection all who will receive Him as their Savior, and He is justified to leave in eternal dying of Hell's damnation all who reject Him in preference of dying for themselves.
Religion is about what you do to try to believe you are too good for Hell.
Knowing God is about what He, in form of a man, Jesus Christ, did for us to save us for Hell.
Ok, since I'm enjoying answering you and you showed excellent manners in your appeal for me to answer you, I'll go on with this true life illustration of what happened when a mini-van carrying four people on a four lane section of road at a point just before that road turns into freeway in Pontiac where I spent more years than I would have if I had more sense.........
This is true, the story is true, there were probably a dozen witnesses and there is a police report on record....it would be hard for me to find and dig up, but I could do it based around the date I was in a bit of a hurry trying to get to the state testing center for my realtor's license back around 2005......
The minivan was in the third of four lanes and I was going to pass on the left in the second lane. Right when my front end had just gotten past their bumper, they suddenly turned a hard left trying to get into a side street on the left. All I could do was slam on my brakes and try to turn with them, and I could not avoid bumping them as we turned. The corner of my front end hit the side of the minivan and pushed it over so the wheels hit the curb near the corner of the street they were trying to turn onto. The curb tripped the van so it tumbled over upside down on the grass next to the road, and with my foot firmly on my brakes I stopped about the same time they stopped and were sitting there upside down. I jumped out of my truck while people sitting at the red light there watched like they were in shock, saw there were four people inside hanging by their seat belts, feared the thing could burst into flames and I would have to stand there and watch them die......and I dove in through a shattered side window to get them out.....would rather have died with them than to stand there and watch them burn to death.
One by one I went around and released the seat belts, held them as much as I could to lighten the fall when they landed on head first on the roof of the overturned vehicle, got them all out, and then I got myself out. The police arrived quickly as the station was only a block away, and the people I pulled out of the accident were so shook up they barely knew what happened. They all kept pointing in different directions trying to remember where they came from and how they got where they landed. I quickly explained to the officer what had happened, she saw it clearly by the dent my truck had caused and the position of both vehicles when they stopped, and dismissed me without questions....I don't remember if she asked for my license or not...I think she was just concerned about those four people who were obviously very shaken up and in need of calming reassurances and maybe to make sure they were not injured.
Now here's the point of this true story.....I went in to save those people. I saw them as dying and needing to be saved, and saw no other option but to dive in and get them out. The thing I did was only a temporary solution for the problem of dying, as those people are in the process of dying the same as you and I and everybody else. They need a permanent salvation to keep them from dying forever. That's what God did for us when He took on human form and plunged himself in to our wrecked lives. He died in our place, conquered death, came up out of it so that we can be pulled up out of it with Him. He wants us to give Him the thanks and honor He deserves for creating us, He loves us so much that He died to save us. This is the gospel, the word "gospel" means good news, it's good news from God for all of mankind, we can be saved and have eternal life as the gift of God through Jesus Christ. It's not religion, it's reality, it's not about what we can do religiously, it's about what God did for us to save us from our sins, save us from dying forever as we are physically dying in time.
Pascal's Wager is religion and unrealistic because you can never be good enough to deserve a gift, gifts are given and not earned. Pascal's Wager is believing you can earn better odds when in reality we have no chance of escaping death without a Savior by whom we can be saved. Only God can save us. We can know Him through Jesus Christ who is God manifest in human form. All religion is Pascal's Wager, and it's always a losing bet.
I am convinced that Jesus Christ is God the Savior because He saved me and my sins are covered by the blood He gave to pay for them. I am convinced of what God did for me because I know it is true. I know I deserve to die and burn in Hell in eternal dying forever, and I know that Jesus took my death and rose in victory offering forgiveness to all who will believe on Him. I know because He is my life, I am crucified with Him, nevertheless I live.....yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me to redeem me from all iniquity. He is my life, I am His property and will joyfully and gladly forever thank Him and honor Him for creating me and giving Himself to save me. "Saint" means "set apart by ownership rights for God's own use". I'm one of His saints, I have many brothers and sisters who belong to Him as do I, bought and paid for by His life's blood, owned by Him in His resurrection, living by the Spirit He gives to all who receive Him, the Savior, as He is, the Living God. Life is a gift from God, dying is the curse of sin. God is the giver of life, proving He is good because He gives life. Life means God is good. I'm Saint Now.
I apologize for his comments. I've talked to the person before and seen their arguments when talking to others and the person just gets mad whenever you quote something they disagree with as well as not quoting things properly. Based off of conversations I've had with this person, they don't seem like they know how to carry on this kind of conversation. The debate he mentions earlier is just him banning people that don't strictly stay on the topic that the discussion was about which is why people just stopped commenting on that debate. However, to answer the question you had posed earlier about my justification of my faith, as a Christian, its Jesus' resurrection 3 days after His death on the cross. Paul mentions that if this never happened, we are no better than any religion out there and we can just go do whatever the heck we wanted because this is all there is. As people who never actually saw Jesus' after he was resurrected, all we have to go on is faith and the bible which, as you probably already know, christians consider historical. Hope that answers your question
There is only one truth, you should be convinced of that Truth, and also it should have witnesses of truth
So Christianity has a Cloud of Witnesses.
.You have the writings of Old and New
.The Word is a Witness of itself
.Confirmed through prophesies that have come true
.Wisdom bearing witness confirming validity with
sound reasoning in, to, and for every age
.Eye witness accounts confirm the writings
.Confirming one writing is true by writings of another, and also other documentations found declare validity, even if in contradiction. Because it still shows its historical validity
.Through the Word being One, even though the Word is written by many
.Showing the Oneness of the Author
.The diligence of Commands regarding the Word, watching over it for handed down accuracy, that is specific and determined
.The writings confirm themselves, if not all through findings of man, which many have been found and have confirmed, but also through the unfolding documentations revealed, as Time progresses
.Can be followed from looking forward - Genesis to Revelations, with the football handed down in an exact planned method
.The progress through time would require planning things out of any humans ability to plan as detailed and precisly, as it followed as described and foretold
.Performing with known results as pre-determined as science - Making every movement within time, as sure as cause and effect with an outcome as sure as if you throw a glass and it forcefully hits a ceramic floor, it will break
.Who What When and Where are described and foretold. So, in essence, if you follow the football from looking from the beginning foreward, it's even a greater feet than Creation itself
.Every scheduled appointed time, produced the unfolded events and end results intended
.And continues through a course of 6000 years to be passed as light to light is revealed
.John the Baptist bearing witness of Jesus
.and Jesus bearing Witness of the foretold Messiah
.Eye Witnesses to Jesus
.The Spirit also bearing witness
.The blood of Martyrs bearing witness
.And the Testimony of those washed and changed by the Blood
and the Word and The Spirit bear witness of all these!
Unfortunately for me, I have never met a Christian who believes the Earth was NOT created 5000 years ago. Of course, I was raised in the church and in the Christian homeschool community here in the south so the Christians I know are more evangelical than average.
That's understandable. Most Christians, at least the one's I have communicated with, believe Earth is a very old planet and that the 5,000 years story isn't accurate.
We live in very different worlds. I'm guessing you're in Europe since American Christians mostly believe in young earth creationism. According to Gallup, 42% of all Americans believe in a young earth and 69% of weekly churchgoers believe in a young earth. Please send some of your moderate Christianity over to America.
Sure. If you have never been exposed at any scientific evidence, you might assume that the earth was created. However, every piece of scientific evidence points to the universe being 14 billion years old. How do you explain that deception?
You want to believe it so you do not look at contradictory facts. It's called ignorance, willful ignorance.
Here is evidence of God in our DNA........
The whole universe is evidence of God, you are evidence of God, but those things seem too much for you to comprehend so look at the facts of DNA, and at the end of the video watch how Richard Dawkins is completely stumped when he was asked to provide one example of DNA code being added to the genome as would be required for evolution.
Lol. I just have one question. Were you an art major in college? Or did you even go to college? You just seem like a person who has never been to a real science class. Have you ever been exposed to a scientific treatise that wasn't sanctioned by your mullah/rabbi/priest?
I apologize for his comments. I've talked to the person before and seen their arguments when talking to others and the person just gets mad whenever you quote something they disagree with as well as not quoting things properly. Based off of conversations I've had with this person, they don't seem like they know how to carry on this kind of conversation. However, to answer the question you had posed earlier about the earth looking like it was 14 billion years old and then the young earthers saying it was only between 6,000 and 10,000. God isn't in the business of deceiving people. He wouldn't make something with the appearance of age. As a Christian myself, I do believe that God created everything, but that it is several billion years old. So basically, it just comes down to what evidence you look to and how you look at it. Some people look at just the bible and stick with a young earth. People like us look to science and think old earth. Like I said, it just matters what you look at and how you look at it
ALL humans?? That means the Christian humans could be wrong. Many , absolutely, do NOT believe they could be wrong! I agree with YOU, they very much COULD be.
Exactly! You are CORRECT! The thing is .... there MUST be some PROOF of what is truth ... just like in court. You don't seem to have any, other than hearsay passed down from goat herders, camel jockeys and stone tablets chiseled by ...WHOM????
If you could come up with even a LITTLE irrefutable "truth" I would gladly apologize to you for doubting. Until then, I have to just use my "noggin" and say: "Show me the truth." Hearsay just don't cut it! I cannot, for the life of me, understand why we allow only your form of "hearsay" in our courts!
You are dying. That is irrefutable truth. Dying people need to be saved. Don't they? If you won't agree that you need to be saved, you won't be saved and that is irrefutable truth.
Truth does not require proof. A rock is harder than your head (most rocks anyways, I know your head is pretty hard). You can believe the rock is harder than your head because it's the truth. You don't need that rock to hit you on the head to find out it is harder than your head. Demanding proof is not very smart. By demanding proof of what I say when I say you are on your way to Hell, you are literally asking to be in the fire before you will believe it...not very smart. God will give you the proof you are asking for, He really doesn't want to give it to you the way you are asking for it or you would have your proof and be unable to ever believe God loves you or that He is good because the fire of Hell only proves, for sinners, God's wrath against their sin.
You are in God's court acting like the court jester
For the second time in a row, you are correct ... you're on a roll!
Yes, I AM dying. I'm nearly 80. I WILL burn ... I've asked to be cremated. I hate to say you are right, but, you are right. It's just that I believe our heaven is here on Earth, and I'm making this world my "hell", to paraphrase Oscar Wilde. But that's MY choice, not any "devil" or "god", (or saint). :<)
You are not making this world Heaven or Hell. This world is this world, it's neither Heaven or Hell. And you want irrefutable proof? If you thing you are making your own Heaven or Hell out of this world, I have a news flash for you...it's still the world, you have completely failed to make it into Heaven or Hell.
You and your BIG mouth, you say the stupidest things .......and then you want me to waste my time debating you? You seem to have scrambled eggs for brains, I can't win arguing with a basket case.
You do not want proof because if you accept proof, you would have to turn against your sin which you love more than life regardless of the fact that it will take you into the fire of Hell if you will not repent and believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, so enjoy your sin while you can.
Jesus is the word of God. The Holy Spirit is God's spirit. I love God he is all I have. I would die for my faith. Listen to these commandment. Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." See it is not just because of my faith that I wouldn't leave Jesus it's also because what he says is the truth. Listen to these comforting words. Romans 8:35-39 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor Angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor heights, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are three forms of one great being. Jesus is/was the physical embodiment of the word of God. The Holy Spirit is the metaphysical word of God. The Holy Spirit comes to give people guidance and of course share the word. God is the word. He is the creator and sculptor of mankind and the universe.
Of course. One could one day find evidence that just completely makes Christianity void and null. Until then I'll remain a Christian.
Your question took a lot of thought. In the garden of Eden the serpent beguiled Eve by convincing her that she could be as God.
To question him is just being human and everyone does it even though we are out of place. But to think we can make better decisions than he can I will not do. I believe that God's rewards and punishments are right and just. But we can down size your question. Let us say you created A.I. It decided one day that you didn't create it and it didn't have to follow the rules you put in it. It started behaving against you even denied your existence. Started destroying all of your other creations. How long would you allow it to oppose you?
Catman I really like you. Why has God not Stepped in? 2 Peter 3:8-10 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are there in shall be burned up." See God is giving us warning of what he is going to do. So that as many as would like to be saved can be saved. Unfortunately there are many sufferings in the meantime.
I didn't say I would destroy it, I said I should stop it. You know, stop it from causing suffering. You don't have to destroy it to stop it from causing suffering.
I never said anything about you not loving it. I am saying you would be showing love. You wouldn't have done the same thing as God in the Noah story. Since you do love your creation, God doesn't.
My apologies I didn't understand you. The thing is God does love us. It is very difficult to change someone's mind and behavior with persuasion. He is giving everyone a chance to change. He has sent people, Angels and his Son to persuade everyone to stop sinning. Question, if you could decide what punishment Adolf Hitler would get for the Holocaust what would you give him?
Under every single metric that we measure out love for each other God fails.
He is giving everyone a chance to change.
You know who else blames the victim for not changing? Abusive fathers.
Question, if you could decide what punishment Adolf Hitler would get for the Holocaust what would you give him?
Torture him for a few hundred years, then let him go. The question is, why does God choose the same punishment for Suzy the atheist down the street as He does for Adolf Hitler?
"Metrics that we measure" could you elaborate? What are we the victim of? I couldn't judge Suzy or Adolf. I haven't seen first hand any deeds done by them. I've only heard stories. God is a perfect judge he doesn't have to take someone else word to make judgment. He was there for every moment of there lives. He heard our thoughts and knows all the desires of our hearts. So neither you nor I can say whether anyone will receive a punishment from God. All we can do is warn one another. Because we know the difference between right and wrong. It is written in our hearts.
We can't have a debate if you are going to push all of the needed knowledge onto your imaginary friend. What do you think will be Hitler's punishment according to your belief system? What do you think will be the punishment of someone who refuses to believe in Jesus, but didn't kill millions of Jews, again according to your beliefs?
You're having a debate with a Christian on a debate room titled questions for Christians. So knowing this you still chose to referrer to God as an imaginary friend. Was this meant to be an insult? My friend please understand this Christians don't spread God's word to insult anyone. We don't do it to make enemies. We do it because we have found something of great value and want to share it. Would you not give up everything you own to obtain everlasting life? Would you not stop doing something if you found out it was wrong?
You'll find that few, if any, non-theists on this website find Christianity to be "something of great value". Not trying to speak for everyone, but you can find quotes from most non-theists here, myself and Cartman included, questioning the moral legitimacy of Christian theology, particularly as it relates to eternally torturing the overwhelming majority of humanity.
God is giving you what you want, the freedom to say nothing shows that He is good. In Hell, nobody will argue that a cool light rain on a hot summer day is a sign of God's goodness. God will give you what you want, a reality where there is nothing which can be argued as indicative of His goodness.......the same reality you say you have now. You are fighting to keep your own reality, and God is giving it to you because giving is good and God is good and you are getting what you want and if you suddenly find yourself in the fire of Hell, you got exactly what you asked for and you will remember me telling you so.
Well..........being in the fire of Hell is an eternal painful death, and we all do deserve it. You are rejecting God's love in your dying now, so what's the difference if He leaves you dying in Hell? You will never believe He loves you unless He lets you be your bad self forever without punishment......so it's just too bad for you, you lose......sorry, but you are having it your way.
Love is only a term that is invented by homo sapiens to describe the emotion they feel when some person is meeting all their personal needs. It is the result of a specific combination of neurotransmitters--chemicals in the brain.
As are ALL emotions.
As is ALL of our personalities.
It's all chemicals, baby.
The soul is a myth.
When you die and if your brain is pulled out of your head, there lies all that ever was of your personality, your hopes, desires, dreams, and character flaws. Albeit in an inert state since the heart is no longer pumping requisite oxygen to the brain, and also the electrolytes have ceased to function.
Let me kn ow if you have any question on neurology or brain chemistry or how they create emotions.
Thanks.
If you are interested on learning more about this, please read this article which I co-wrote with a guy I went to undergrad school with.
You try to frame things so you can only feel my annoyance, and that is mostly what you get...you get me annoyed. That's what you want, so am I unkind or unloving to let you see what you want to see? You have to see for yourself that it is good to know the love of God. Until you believe that, you will only accuse God of being less than good and less than loving and no matter what you see, you will see it wrong so you will feel it wrong....and it's not God who is wrong, Mr. Cartman.
The discussion here is "Questions for Christians", so I will assume you are asking questions about what you have been told to believe, and I'll answer as if you were asking the questions instead of acting like it's supposed to be "Questions for Atheists".
The discussion here is "Questions for Christians", so I will assume you are asking questions about what you have been told to believe, and I'll answer as if you were asking the questions instead of acting like it's supposed to be "Questions for Atheists".
EDITED< CORRECT VIDEO LINK WILL BE ADDED SOON; the Lord permitting.
In this video referenced, I don't agree with or support all he says, but he does a pretty good job of showing the reality of life being supernatural in pretty good scientific terms. Every point you make is soundly refuted. While I do not accept as correct all of what this guy teaches, he does give a very good logical and scientific rebuttal to belief in life being nothing but chemical fizzes, while he also covers parallel universes and interdimensional creatures and the basis flaws of evolutionary belief and naturalisms teachings that life is nothing but chemical reactions and not supernatural. Life is obviously supernatural, but some people don't want to believe it so they won't.
When science claims it proves that you are nothing but chemical reactions, it is saying you are not responsible for anything you do. This is a philosophic issue, and making assertions you cannot prove is not science. Showing that certain emotions are connected with certain areas of the brain does not mean I cannot choose to be happy or choose to be angry or choose to be whatever emotionally.
Here are some quantum physics and math based refutations of your assertions. We are body, spirit, and soul. "Scientists" who want to believe we have no soul and do not owe God for our time bend their science to fit their beliefs while they ignore science which shows their beliefs are not valid theories and in fact are nothing more than hypothesis which they can uphold as theories only by ignoring science which shows their hypothesis incorrect.
The love of God giving you what you want. You want reality to be void of God, while all good things you can name are gifts from God...but you want reality to be void of any indication that God loves you, and because He loves you He will give you your heart's desire, a reality with no sign that He is good, and that is eternal damnation in the fire of Hell...you are asking for it and God loves you so He will give it to you, He can't talk you into trusting Him, can He? I don't think so, I think you will get the proof of Hell you say is not there when you find yourself unable to get out of it. I hope you prove me wrong, but you will probably go on saying stupid and obnoxious things until the fire is on you and you will never stop saying stupid and obnoxious things because stupid and obnoxious is as stupid and obnoxious does.
There is no reason to believe such a weak God exists. I am not interested in adjusting my view of God in order to make Him exist for no reason. Every century people know God as a lesser being than the century before.
People end up in Hell because they want a reality where nothing good is from God, they deny God is good so they reject all of His goodness. The everlasting consuming fire of Hell where dying is never finished is the reality void of God's goodness which people who do not believe in God asked for, and God gave it to them becaue He loves them and gives them what they really want, a reality void of any indication of God's goodness, the same reality you want now when ou say you do not believe in God.......and you are going to get it if you won't repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Life, Love, Father, Mother, Wife, Husband, Son, Daughter, Brother, Sister, Friend, earth, fresh air, food, laughing, singing, smiles, being cozy, greetings from anyone happy to see you, having relations with wife or husband, first date, first kiss, sunrise, hiking, campfire, random acts of kindness, spring, fall, a starry night, walks on the beach, swinging at the playground. I could keep going. I think you are missing all of God's work.
My response was directed at Saintnow's point of view that everything about life is horrible. Saintnow believes in God and never talks about what is great with living.
iGod created the Heavens and the Earth and everything in them all at once. Then he formed living things from the things He had created.......we are wet piles of dust with the breath of life in us
"Then he formed living thing from the things he created."
So the "things" needed for creation were HERE. They were "used" to create life. If they were here, why is it impossible for natural functions and reactions to "bring them together?", and "create life" and for it to "evolve" naturally?? (i.e., evolution)
If we bring certain chemicals together we get a reaction, If we bring certain minerals together, we get other reactions. "God" doesn't do this, it is the natural function of the chemicals and minerals. Bring the right ones together and VOILA .... LIFE!
Nothing was needed for God to create things. Before God created anything, He was there, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. He is God, and you know who God is when I say He is God who created all things. He is the only God who you want to overrule in hope of asserting yourself in existence outside of Hell forever.
Go on believing in evolution if you want to, it won't get you out of Hell.
Bro, you do realize that there is actual evidence for evolution right? I personally only believe in microevolution, but its still there. I've seen your comments before and it seems like you blatantly disregard scientific evidence that doesn't line up with what you believe to be true. How about you give evidence that evolution is false and then I'll believe you.
microevolution is not evolution, it is adaptation to the environment. Nothing ever changes from one kind of an animal into another kind, never has, never will.
If you want to believe cows turned into whales, or reptiles turned into birds, go ahead and believe it but it is not science, it is a belief in things that have never been seen and never will be seen.
go to scienceagainstevolution.com.......do your own homework. If you won't learn for your own sake when it's so easy to find stuff on the web, you won't learn by me putting it in your face. Open the books yourself.....ooops, I learned from books before the web was invented. It's so easy to learn now, but you still are to lazy to do it yourself and you want me to do it for you?
There is evidence, just not evidence you're willing to look at and address. Not only has it been observed, its been done artificially with dogs. All the different dog species that we have now are thanks to 3 different dog species that were artificially bred together to form different breeds. Microevolution by definition is adaptation to the environment. I tried going to that website. Apparently its no longer available. Why do you have such an issue with supporting your claims? All I asked you to do was to give me evidence for your beliefs.
Who made God: God was not made he has always existed. If you really give this some thought you will understand. Take for instance the Big Bang theory. Those that believe that. Ask them what happened before that, and before that, and before that, and before that, and before that. You get where I'm going. God has no age he is eternal no beginning or end.
For "something" to exist, it must have a place to exist. Where did this "place" come from? What reason did "it" have to exist?
I say "GOD" never existed except in the imagination and fears (of everything not understood) of man. The "concept" that everything MUST have a "beginning" is a human concept, just like this "GOD". Did you ever think that maybe BOTH concepts were wrong? There are many thing STILL not understood.
If this "GOD" created the universe, why is he still creating it ...light years from us? If he "created" every rock in the Asteroid Belt, why? Why does he constantly "create", then destroy, planets hundreds of times larger than Earth .... after which he must have rested for MONTHS, "after his great work".
We can't conceive of something that exists without a beginning ... except this "GOD" (some of us). I say, if HE can exist without a beginning, as WE conceive it, the universe can.
What are you asking? Are you stating that everything is confusing? You said many things still not understood then went on to say the universe has no beginning. Is this science or science fiction? Are you creating a new theory? What are you saying? Oh I think I get it. You're saying God doesn't exist. Let me know if I'm right. Why have you set yourself up against God?
No, I am not stating that everything is confusing. It was once the scientific (religious scientific) view that the universe revolved around the Earth. We found that to be wrong. I'm just saying that the human concept that everything MUST have a beginning may be wrong also .... at least OUR concept of a "beginning". We ARE still learning.
"Setting myself up against GOD?" No, I have no thing against your "god". Againsy some of the followers OF it, maybe, but only when they make religious rules they say I MUST follow. EVERYONE! Worship ANYTHING, to your hearts content, I have NO objection to that, just DON'T turn it into a war to defend your idol, or a tool to hate others!
I believe the words of Richard Dawkins express my feelings well: ""We are all Atheists about most of the gods humanity has believed in" (Thor, Osiris, Neptune etc.)."some of us just go one god further." I just have my own belief and I can't "set myself up" against what others believe. it's not my nature.
I'm keeping my mind open, though. All I ask is that one "god" or another show up and take control of the mess that has developed in S/HE/IT'S vacuum. I'll be happy to follow once I have something tangible TO follow.
What is religious scientific? Is this the category were all proven wrong scientific theories go? You say you aren't against my God but you call him an idol, you said God doesn't create life, you said God only exited in the imagination and fears of man, you also said that his Word is distorted. You are sounding like a hypocrite. Everything you are saying is against his words. If you're mind is truly open seek God and you shall find him. But if you do it expecting to find nothing, nothing you shall find. Have Faith
So in answer because we can only theorise before the Big Bang therefore it cannot be true yet without any evidence whatsoever you are asking people to believe in a mythical being that has existed "forever" and that should be accepted as being true
Do any believers in God ever ask themselves any questions about
Religion and try to explain it
It's seems to be the answer is always " it just is " whenever a question is asked or "your all going to hell" yet if there is no God then there is no hell
I personally think the church should concentrate on the good work that it does for its fellow man and leave the non existent God out of the equation
science is full of flaws yet people take that as evidence even though everything is theory and hypothesis, assumptions.why? there's nothing good in this as man sucks at being better through science at enriching himself at the expense of the poor, yet blames God for all that man does to his fellow brother, what hypocrisy, yet man will not abide by even one command of love.of course there is hell for those who so call themselves righteous when they have it in their will to do better for the poor.but they don't, just moan on about God
Who or what are you talking about? Whoever it is that you are referring to as "God" is not The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY......I think you know that, so who are you really talking about? Satan?
My question to you sir is for you to please give me ONE example or current situation, place, occurrence, person, thing, SOMETHING!! that we can see today on this entire planet that is proof there is a god.And that we are not here simply out of blind chance, through Evolution, and adhere to the laws of physics and reason and randomness like all us atheists say.
Show me ONE instance of why the world we live in can NOT be as we atheists say, but is instead governed by a personal deity who listens to prayers and cares about you.
God gave your mother a baby in her womb, and it was you. That is one instance showing God rules over nature and is personal......and He will listen to your prayer if you will first admit you need His mercy. He will reveal Himself to you personally if you will come to Him believing He is able and willing to make Himself known to you. God will not violate your freedom of rejecting Him. He does not want a robot, He wants you and loves you just as you are.....and if you will trust Him, He will make you into a son to receive His inheritance of eternal life.
I really don't want to argue with you. If you're only going to say there is no God, there's nothing I can do or say to change your position, not even God can do that. You have to be willing to trust and obey Him, believe He has your best interests at heart and will give you what is best for you and cleanse you of things that tarnish the glow of His love.
Let me borrow your imagination for a few minutes, hoping to engage your interest with a poetic version of events.....after Peter in cowardice had completely gone back on his vow to die with Jesus as a true friend........
You know the story of Peter, I'm sure, how he swore allegiance to Christ before He was crucified, vowing to die with Jesus, and Jesus said "before the cock crows twice, you will deny me thrice"....and before the cock crowed twice, Peter denied knowing the Lord three times, and in the third denial the cock crowed. Jesus turned then and looked a Peter with a "see, I told you so" look, and Peter went out and wept bitterly. After Peter had watched his master being spit on, beaten, and brutally slapped, in cowardice he denied knowing the Lord, and when the cock crowed after the third denial Jesus turned his bloodied face and looked Peter square in the eye....and Peter overwhelmed in his guilt and shame, still loving Jesus in his heart while he tried to hide his affections sitting idly by as they beat Jesus to a pulp.....and then Jesus was crucified and buried in a tomb sealed by Rome and guarded by soldiers to keep the body as proof that Jesus could not be who He claimed to be.....now here's Peter with the other disciples, fearful, forlorn, afraid of inquisition and accusations of being followers of Jesus, sitting together........(with some poetic license, the story as told by Peter....my apologies for not giving proper credit to the author of the poem, I don't know the name....)_...................................................................................................................
The gates and doors were barred, all the windows fastened down,
We spent the night in sleeplessness, arose at every sound.
Half in hopeless sorrow, half in fear the day
Would find the soldiers breaking through to drag us all away.
It was just before the sunrise, I heard something at the wall,
The gate began to rattle, and a voice began to call.
I hurried to the window, and looked down into the street
Expecting swords and torches, and the sounds of soldier's feet.
There was no one there but Mary, so I ran down to let her in.
John stood there beside me, as she told us where she'd been.
She said "they took Him in the night, and none of us knows where,
The stone's been rolled away and now his body is not there."
So we both ran toward the garden, and John ran on ahead.
We found the stone and the empty tomb, the way that Mary said,
And the winding sheet they'd wrapped him in was just an empty shell
How or where they'd taken Him was more than I could tell.
Now something strange had happened, but what, I didn't know.
John believed a miracle, but I just turned to go.
Circumstance and speculation couldn't lift me very high,
Because I watched them crucify him, then I saw him die.
Back inside my house again, the guilt and anguish came
Everything I promised him just added to my shame.
When at last it came to choices, I denied I knew his name!!
Even if he was alive, it wouldn't be the same.
Suddenly, the air was filled, with strange and sweet perfume.
Light that shown from everywhere drove shadows from the room.
Jesus stood before me, with his arms held open wide,
I fell down, on my knees, clung to him and cried.
He lifted me to my feet, and as I looked into his eyes,
Love was shining out from him like sunlight from the skies.
Guilt and my confusion disappeared with sweet release,
And every fear I'd ever had melted into peace!
HE'S ALIVE!!!!! HE'S ALIVE!!!!!!
He's alive and I'm forgiven, Heaven's gates are open wide!!
HE'S ALIVE!!!! HE'S ALIVE!!!!
He's alive and I'm forgiven, Heaven's gates are open wide.
Peter received the Lord as His Savior, and Jesus gave Him the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. God will give you an identical set of keys if you will believe on and receive His Son.
Friend, I'm going home to be with the Lord soon. I won't be here long to try and bring you to know the Savior. God knows I tried.
Open rebuke is better than secret love (proverbs, look it up if you want to). When people are boldly in error in danger or Hell fire or leading others astray, they need to be rebuked and that is the loving thing to do. To tell less than the truth is not loving, it would be apathetic and selfish desiring approval rather than what is best for the other person.
Except you're still called to do everything in love. Otherwise you are compared to a resounding gong. All you would basically be doing is making noise that no one wants to hear. Talking to them in love will get them to listen even if they are wrong
you are not speaking Biblically, you are speaking in support of your own emotional insecurity, needing to feel accepted by others rather than desiring to honor God. Look at how Jesus spoke and acted in face of sin. He did not sound loving when he was telling people they are of their father the devil, calling them whitewashed sepulchers full of dead men's bones, thieves, hypocrites.......they did not crucify Him because of His miracles and kind words, they crucified Him because He rebuked them for their sins and He named their sins specifically. If you say you are being loving and acting like Jesus but you do not stand strong against sin, the Jesus you claim to imitate is only yourself. John the Baptist was beheaded for telling the truth about sin. It is not loving to hold back from telling the truth. Jesus said if we follow Him, the world will hate us the same as they hated Him. Your criticisms are uncalled for, it is not sin to point out and name sin, the people who are in chains of sin need to be told the truth about their evils because the truth will make them free. You are being judgmental of me with no scriptural basis. You have the problem being loving if you are too spineless to stand up against sin. I will be ignoring you if all you want to do is criticize me while I try to persuade men knowing the terror of the Lord. You do your lovey dovey stuff all day long and get the whole world to love you, I'll try to get them saved from Hell so they are not destroyed by their sin.
You do realize that the 2 most important commands are to love your neighbor as yourself and love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Ya, as people that love the Lord, we're supposed to hate evil and tell people the error of their ways and turn to the Lord, but that doesn't justify doing it the way you're doing it. All you've done is get mad at people for not converting or seeing that God is the answer. Also, you've only been getting butt hurt from me telling you to do it the way you're supposed to. You are the cause of your own problem
You do realize that in your criticisms of me you are not only being an unloving hypocrite, but you are ignoring the example set for us by Jesus Christ, and you are ignoring the Bible. Take your spineless lovie dovie heresy somewhere other than my back. I don't have time to read your garbage.
How is that unloving and hypocritical? All I've been doing telling you that you're going about this the wrong way in a loving way and out of love. Jesus' example was that he did everything out of love. I'm not ignoring the bible at all. If I did that, I wouldn't have addressed the issue. All you've been doing is spewing hate at those who disagree with you. I don't know what kind of God or Jesus you follow if you think that we're supposed to treat everybody the way you're treating them. I agree with you when you say we are supposed to hate evil, but thats only half of it. You don't go hating evil by getting mad at everyone who doesn't convert or agree with what you say. I guess what I'm getting at is, why is the concept of treating other people in a loving way such a problem for you when treating other people that way is commanded by the very same person you claim to follow?
you are not speaking Biblically, you are speaking in support of your own emotional insecurity, needing to feel accepted by others rather than desiring to honor God. Look at how Jesus spoke and acted in face of sin. He did not sound loving when he was telling people they are of their father the devil, calling them whitewashed sepulchers full of dead men's bones, thieves, hypocrites.......they did not crucify Him because of His miracles and kind words, they crucified Him because He rebuked them for their sins and He named their sins specifically. If you say you are being loving and acting like Jesus but you do not stand strong against sin, the Jesus you claim to imitate is only yourself. John the Baptist was beheaded for telling the truth about sin. It is not loving to hold back from telling the truth. Jesus said if we follow Him, the world will hate us the same as they hated Him. Your criticisms are uncalled for, it is not sin to point out and name sin, the people who are in chains of sin need to be told the truth about their evils because the truth will make them free. You are being judgmental of me with no scriptural basis. You have the problem being loving if you are too spineless to stand up against sin. I will be ignoring you if all you want to do is criticize me while I try to persuade men knowing the terror of the Lord. You do your lovey dovey stuff all day long and get the whole world to love you, I'll try to get them saved from Hell so they are not destroyed by their sin.
Life does not emerge out of non-life, no matter how many hypothesis you come up with trying to explain how it could happen. It does not happen, never has happened, you can't make it happen, it will never happen.
Believing it happened is like believing a tornado swept through a junk yard and caused a Jumbo Jet to be assembled with a full tank of fuel and the engine running.
Life is supernatural. All you are doing in atheism is trying to deny your own life. God loves you and won't let you do that the way you want to do it, denying Him of His ownership over you. You know where I'm going with this, right? You can believe God loves you now, but if you keep insisting it is not possible that He loves you, then you will find yourself in a place where everything is exactly what you want. God will give it to you because He loves you and will give you what you really want....a reality void of any indication that God is good. By denying all evidence that God is good, you are making Hell for yourself on Earth but it's not Hell.....God is letting you have it your own way, and you will have it in reality if you won't believe God loves you. You're fighting a losing battle, and I do not want to fight with you.
What you are doing in reality is demanding proof that Hell is real punishment of sinners forever, and you will get it if you keep asking for it or if you stand forever in your decision to believe God does not have the right to rule over you.
Richard Dawkins can't prevent anybody from going to Hell. He's only a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell like all of us do. Dawkins says nothing new.
laws of randomness? I thought random is random and not ruled by law. You can explain it for me if you like, I never heard of laws of randomness and my fingers are too lazy to google it at the moment.
What about the laws of logic? Do the laws of randomness make the laws of logic changeable? If not, why not?
God is not made or He would not be God...I think you know that, you just want to ask stupid questions as if stupidity is unanswerable.
Being made in the image of God means we have powers of reason, mobility, creativity (imagination and practical application), communication, and the ability to bring other creatures, children, like ourselves, into existence.
I don't know why I'm bothering to answer you........you probably don't care if you are on your way to Hell and don't care if God loves you or not, and do not appreciate that He made you in His own image and values you (and all other people, all individually) above anything else in Creation.
beLIEvie. When something is written it is more convincing than something spoken. That's all . The fact it's written doesn't make it more true - just more convincing
It was spoken before it was written. fact: The Christian bible is the most published literature in history. The reason is God said his word will reach everyone. Bibles are even being air dropped into North Korea one of the most isolated countries in the world. God said in the ladder days he will write his laws in our hearts and minds. This is why you see a lot of non believers writing about loving one another. Writing God's word down doesn't make it more true it allows it to reach more people. You already know the truth the hard part is submitting to it.
Jesus was made perfect through doing God's will. Jesus being God's only begotten son "The Word of God". God must be Jesus father. There was no other way. No option for human to be his father. Why would you try to undo perfection? Do you understand what perfect means? To do things the right way without error. This is the definition.
Human fathers are sinners and you are a sinner like your Father. Jesus is God like His Father and knew no sin, but took God's wrath against your sin so you can be let off the hook and not perish in the Lake of Fire but rather have eternal life.
If a man has a son, that child is in essence the same as the man. The child is a sinner the same as his father. Jesus never sinned because God cannot sin. Jesus is God the same as God the Father is God. They are one, and the Holy Spirit is with them, these three are One. God took on Himself the form of a man when He was conceived by the Spirit of God, the Son of God sent by the Father conceived in human form, God the man, the Son of God, the Son of Man. We are sinners. God Himself died in our place and paid for our sins so we can be forgiven by Him in His resurrection.
Anybody whose father is a man, is no more than a man and is not God. Jesus, whose Father is God, is God, the Son of God. People come from people, God the Son came down from Heaven. God is our Savior, Jesus Christ is His name. There is no other Savior.
Only God is perfect, nobody whose father is a man is perfect but rather they are like their fathers, imperfect and dying due to their imperfection. Jesus is perfect, He is God.
People want to imply He was only a man because if they believe He is who He said He is, God in person, that means He has authority over them and they don't want God telling them what to do or what not to do so they reject His authority and hope to escape in death.
The devil is the father of lies. He is the deceiver that has turned angels and men away from God. Read Revelation 12:7 it talks about a war in heaven. There are many other scripture showing the devil's nature. Please let me know if you would like them.
I already know you know this answer you are a wise individual. When God created free will this allowed anyone to choose between good or evil. The devil was the first one to lie. There is a lot of questions we don't have the answers for. This is my opinion, I believe everyone is responsible for there own decisions. Everyone deserves a chance to do the right thing. The devil is presumed to be an angel before he made his decision to make war with Michael the arch-angel. When I think of God's knowing everything I see him knowing all of the paths one can choose to take. Sorry I couldn't answer your question more directly. But this is a question best left answered by God.
But if he transcends time, as he is described in Revolations, then he has to know before creating someone what choices they will make ahead of time. Otherwise he isn't the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.
God made all things for His own pleasure and purpose, the devil chose to turn against God trying to become the king of creation. That was a stupid and evil thing to do, and you are stupid if you don't believe God made the way for you to be saved from your sin and you won't receive the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord.
Because the devil, when he was called Lucifer, was greater and higher in position than all or most of the other angels (only Michael and Gabriel are mentioned as possibly being equal or near Lucifer's greatness and position), he decided the lower angels should admire and serve Him. Instead of leading them to serve and honor only God who deserves it for creating them and giving them free will, he led them to serve himself as he sought to set himself up as the king of creation. He had become proud of himself and wanted lower angels to admire him, rather than to direct their admiration correctly to God who gave Lucifer whatever measure of greatness he had. The greatness of Lucifer was an illustration by God of His own greatness, and Lucifer wanted the lower angels to praise him instead of God who created them. He led them to serve him by force and by manipulation, and God finally spoke His objection and spelled out Satan's (formerly known as Lucifer, now his name was changed meaning "adversary") error of rebellion as well as the punishment he would receive. Lucifer's scheme was to take over God's throne and set himself up as God. For some reason he got it in his head that it was better to be the one in power being served, instead of being one under a higher power .........the only problem with that is God owns everything He made and Satan does not have the right to disenfranchise God. Because God is good he will not allow unrighteousness to go unpunished. Satan is doomed.
The ceremonial law was fulfilled by Jesus as the final sacrifice for our sins, God Himself became the sacrificial Lamb to pay for our sins.
The moral law has not changed.
Societal law governs our society. We abide by the laws of our nation as long as those laws do not compel us to do things denying God the Savior, Jesus Christ.
That is a general answer, to a very vague question. You probably have a list of laws God gave to the Jews after He brought them out of Egypt which you really don't want to understand, you really don't want the answer to your question.
Are you really so blown away from hash that you can't be specific in what you are asking about, then study the context of whatever it is you are asking about, and get the answer yourself?
You are correct, God is unchanging. We follow all commandments from God, except the one Jesus upgraded or clarified. Some of the rules Israel was under were temporal. Example: Israel in the Old Testament had to offer sacrifices for the sins of the people. In the old testament Psalms 40:6 (“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened. Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require. Then I said, “Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart.”) You see God gave them temporary laws to obey until he sent our Saviour.
So...if there were indeed a perfect and omniscient creator, why would he feel it necessary to create no less than 2.5 Million species of insects in the Amazon Rain Forest alone?
As well as millions of different varieties of beetlles?
Also..why all of our junk DNA? Fully one quarter or our Genome coding is useless. Serving no purpose? Lots of replication, lots of broken and incomplete strands.
That are what one would expect to see exactly if we in fact evolved and adapted to our environ!ents over epochs of time?
Why if evolution is not real and God is perfect, are WE not perfect? Subject to disease and deterioration? Why is the human eye and optical nerve installed backwards? That is, insofar as optimal efficacy is concerned? Why is it exactly as it would be had it evolved from being originally only a light sensitive patch of cells?
I can provide links and sources for all these facts, btw.
Congrats on being a Biologist. Are your questions really for Christians? They look like they should be for a Biologist. Or are they an attempt to prove God doesn't exist? If you read your questions, even if they could be answered what does that prove? Are you saying there shouldn't be 2.5 million species of insects or there should be more or this is evidence that insects created themselves? I have never been able to answer any of your question to you satisfaction but I'll try to again because I like you. I believe you will become a Christian one day. The only question I'm capable of answering is the question pertaining to perfect. Man was created perfect. Imperfection came to man when we started moving away from God's commandments. The moment we sinned is when we started to deteriorate. As for the eye part. Maybe your eyes are installed backwards but mine are perfectly fine, I have no complaints.
My questions were posed for believers in a perfect creator and for Christians who deny evolution. Which, if perfection and balance in nature were the goals of said God, then he failed miserable with the natural world, where there is tremendous waste. Not to mention the painful and torturous death every single minute of every day for millions of animals.
Did they too fall from Grace?
Speaking of the Fall, you said we were once perfect? Despite how I explained that the homo sapien body is flawed.
So are you claiming Adam and Eve were physiologically different from us? With no junk DNA and backward optical nerves and vestigial traits leftover from evolution? Like you and I have?
Thanks SlapShot, as always it is a pleasure. Your first question about failing miserable, tremendous waste, torturous death and fall from Grace.
I will have to take you back to the beginning when we fell from Grace.
In the beginning (God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God Said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that move upon the earth.) He gave the whole Earth to Man that he may rule over it. His first commandment to Man was to procreate. His second commandment was (And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat there of thou shalt surely die.) After God told us what would happen we still chose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then when God ask us what happen we did the first and best thing man does is point fingers and blame others. In this case man blamed woman and woman blamed serpent. After this God punished us. To Adam he said, ("Because you have listen to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, and you shall eat the herd the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return." This was the start of imperfections in man existence. We were given this world. Whatever imperfection are in this world we created them. The waste=we did it. Pain and torture=man perfected it, this is what man is really proficient at, man has created the imbalance in our DNA and the ecosystem. Understand this God is life his commandment bring us to him. Jesus is his commandments. So Adam's DNA was perfect until he sinned. For every action there are consequences.
Young Earth,
I stay away from this one. I don't believe that the answer to this question will lead anyone to salvation. For Christians we can't prove either or. For Scientist they can't prove either or. As for Christians we understand that a day to God is 1000 years to man. God did not specify as to whether he was regarding his day or man's day which is 24 hours. If God wanted to make the Heavens and the Earth in 6000 years or 144 hours it is his choice. He is over capable to do as he will. So to me this question doesn't matter. It doesn't prove or disprove anything. Science should not be used as a tool to challenge and disprove God. There are a lot of good things that come from science. The facts in Science don't disprove God only the Theory. Thanks
Oops that one was general scientific debunking of evolution...
Here is one on why the eye is far too complex to have evolved...and I watched the Dawkins video on how the eye supposedly evolved......he only show how a mechanical camera was invented, it is far inadequate to explain the eye......and once again, Dawkins has contributed nothing new to science......showing how a camera works and implying it is the same as the human eye is sixth grade science with evolutionary belief added so the college professor is really teaching nothing but a sixth grade experiment on how to make a camera.
And here's Kenyon, author of "Chemical Predestination", a much more accomplished evolutionary biologist compared to Dawkins........Biology professor.....highly credentialed in an evolutionary biology department at a major university.......you can get the details........
sure, ignore the facts by attacking his character. This is the problem with the religion of naturalism disguised as evolution/atheism......you are brainwashed so that you cannot critically examine the things you are told to believe.
sure, ignore the facts by attacking his character.
I'm not. I'm attacking his credibility. If Mr. Hovind starts his discussion claiming to have some experience that makes him qualified to talk about some subject, and it turns out that he has lied about that experience, then not only is he not qualified but he is not credible. Even other creationists have distanced themselves from him. Even Answers in Genesis(AiG) has criticized him for perpetuating fraudulent claims that damage the credibility of Creationists everywhere.
You don't seem to be as familiar with Mr. Hovind as I am, so I will give you a brief breakdown. He calls himself "Dr Dino" and claims to have a doctorate, but what he has is an unaccredited degree that he bought from a diploma mill. His prestigious "university" was a double-wide trailer (Because they need a mailing address to claim to be a university) that sells unaccredited degrees.
He even had the phonebook list him as a doctor, which most real doctors don't even do. His unaccredited degree was in Christian Education, and he did ministry. He has no formal education in science whatsoever, and it shows. He never taught high school anything. He taught at a Christian Academy run out of the basement of a church, that he himself started. And a few other similar Christian schools run out of churches. He never taught at any high school anywhere. Nor by even the most charitable interpretation could we say that he has 15 years experience. He doesn't.
Here is a discussion of questioning the flaws of the human body.
You have to look at our beliefs critically or you will not know if you are being lied to. If your beliefs are not open to examination and investigation of contradictory facts, they are not scientific but rather are rigidly religious.
Our eyes are made the way they have to be made for us to use, saying things in our eye are backwards ignores science of the eye. As a biologist, you might want to understand the eye better before you say things in it are backwards or poorly constructed.
Here's a pretty good scientific proof of why Dawkins is wrong on the eye parts being backwards or of poor construct. ......https://youtu.be/o87j5l-6Ano
The animals were affected by our sin as was the entire creation. We are to blame, in Adam, as we came from Adam. The animals are in the fall, they themselves are innocent victims of how we messed up the material creation by our sin. In the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, God promises that every animal will be in praising Him, and that means they will not be in Hell, so they will have a place in, if not completely free run of, the Kingdom of Heaven.
Adam was perfect when he was created. Sin is corruption, and by it death entered in and progressive deterioration ensued and is passed down in our genes with more and more defects emerging as one defect in the genetic code, if not corrected by those little guys who go up and down checking for errors on the strands of DNA....I forget the name of them.........when one error gets by unrepaired, it leads to more errors.
Perfection and balance in nature is a promise of God, it was in nature at the beginning of Creation and will be in nature when evil is purged from creation and forever confined in Hell where evildoers faces will not be seen by the living but the smoke of their torments will rise forever as a testimonial of what it cost God when He gave His Son to buy us back from sin, pull us out of death, and save us from Hell.
Death is going to be forever separated from the Living, and the Living will never again know pain, or sorrow, or suffering, or dying. Only the dying will be dying, and the corruption of sin will be separated from creation when imprisoned in Hell where it belongs.
You and I have never been perfect, but God can change that and make us perfect......and that perfection can be fully known when the body of sin which we call our corpse, the car of the curse that carries us around, is destroyed. If Jesus Christ lives in you, He will be your life and the sting of death in the body of the believer is temporary and brief, having no power to end the life given by God.
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. Receive Him as your Savior and you will be saved and have eternal life. Jesus died for you, what has Dawkins done for you?
I really hope you will watch this one.....it shows hard scientific proof of what appears to be miraculous as there is no other explanation...unless you have a different explanation for what is clearly observable and factual......
Here's a good one, gets fairly deep into dating methods and radioactive isotopes and measuring decay rates........the science in this video is just a hair below how far I went in chemistry, and thanks to my method of cramming for tests to get the A and then atrophy of knowledge by never much using the material, I forget a lot of the key words to name things........but this stuff is always easy for me to understand and if I wanted to study it for a college exam, I'm sure I could cram for it and get an A on the test before I forget the gritty details and correct spelling of the scientific terms again.......
The next one is an expose of the complete fraud of the change from monkey into man which supposedly occurred.....the facts are the facts, any honest jurist would have to say "guilty" and reject the whole chain of "links" between monkeys or apes and man.
Many biologists reject evolution and BYA, the reasons and all of the answers for your questions which you propose as supports for evolution can be found at sites like this: https://answersingenesis.org/
this is one of the best known science sites against evolution. There are many more. You don't have to believe in evolution to find answers for your questions, there are much simpler and much more science based answers than answers which depend on belief in evolution. Rejecting evolutionary belief in no way hinders or limits scientific discovery and application of science.......but if you realize evolution is a lie and you admit it publicly, you will lose most or all of your friends at school.
Do the research for yourself, look at the science against evolution....only one indisputable fact scientifically observable and repeatable which shows BYA or evolution cannot be real in light of that fact proves the "theory" of evolution is nothing but a hypothesis believed by choice denying facts of reality. I have tried to show you many of these things which disprove evolution, but it seems you just disappear when the facts are presented plainly in posts here.....if you will take the challenge and study for yourself, you will see that evolution is not possible, has never happened, and will never happen.......and the same for BYA hypothesis.
People who support BYA and evolution insert beliefs as facts and then accept only facts which can be interpreted in support of those beliefs, no matter that the facts can be explained other ways which are contrary to BYA and evolution.
I always study both sides of the argument when things like Red Shift and decay of radioactive isotopes or whatever the latest argument is........oh yeah, junk DNA too, they tried to convince me that was one of the proofs of evolution in Biology class, it is not. I am not much for discipline study to write things down so I can recite all the facts forever, I prefer cramming for tests and assignments at the last minute and get A's easily, then I forget the rigorous structured details but retain the basic facts. Evolutionists generally only look at things one way and that way must conform to their beliefs so facts which are contradictory or different ways of looking at the facts are ignored.
most of the biological arguments you present are things I studied both sides of before the internet was invented.....and after evolution had been pumped into me for decades through television and public schools and all the science mags and books I used to read. The arguments supporting intelligent design and young earth are much simpler, much more logical, and neglect or ignore no scientific facts.
one is one, two is a couple, three is a few, thousands are many. Science is not determined by popular vote. The fact that most biologists do not want God to be in authority over them does not prove He is not there and it does not prove belief in evolution is validated. Some of the most highly educated, accomplished, respected, and appreciated scientists and biologists completely reject evolutionary belief, and BYA belief, and by doing so they lose nothing to detract them from their work or from their studies......one of those men is the inventor of the MRI machine which revolutionized medicine. I could list a hundred men like him who have earned the respect of God hating evolutionary biologists because of their knowledge and application of science and the new discoveries they find which enrich our understanding of nature and our ability to use it beneficially. Evolutionary believe adds nothing of value to society but rather sucks huge amounts of money and wastes a lot of talent by spending time trying to prove things which cannot be proven and can only be believed if you want to believe them..........and they add nothing productive or physically useful. Everything you can discover by scientific observation, and anything you can invent, needs nothing of evolutionary belief to find or to use scientifically. The goal of evolutionary belief is only to make you feel like you have the right to exist outside of Hell and cannot be punished for your sin in death. That is what evolutionists are afraid of, and they are masters of denial in saying it cannot be true when they cannot know what they are talking about when they insist evolution is real.
The arguments supporting intelligent design are simpler than belief in evolution because God created answers all of the problems science cannot answer. If you look at nature scientifically and honestly, everything in nature points to God as the Creator. You can study science and nature in all depth without rejecting God. When you reject God, you have to ignore a lot of science and invent a lot of stories to explain why you ignore a lot of scientific facts. That is why evolutionary arguments are more complicated than simply studying science. You do not have to believe in God to be a scientist, but it is a waste of time and talent to try to prove He is not there.
Again, you are trying to simplify and justify your own ignorance with a "gotcha" statement. If you don't want to listen and learn, you won't. Your "gothcha" is only an assertion of ignorance as you ride your train of death and we know where it is taking you, don't we?
one is one, two is a couple, three is a few, thousands are many.
Well, then you are quite a bit shy of having many biologists reject evolution.
Science is not determined by popular vote
And the purpose of claiming that many biologists reject evolution was..? If you were to look at virtually any discipline you would find a small minority that holds some crank view. You would find a number of historians that deny the holocaust similar to the number of Biologists that believe in young earth Creationism. You would find a similar number of physicists that believe in "Free energy" and perpetual motion machines, than you do of biologists that accept young earth creationists. I've seen 9/11 truthers post lists of all the Engineers that agree with their crackpot conspiracies. These are fringe views that are not taken seriously in academia or in the scientific community, and for good reason.
I could list a hundred men like him...
I thought you said science wasn't determined by popular vote?
and they add nothing productive or physically useful.
And virologists understand the ecological mechanisms by which viruses acquire immunity to anti-biotics because of...? Creationism? Erm.. or perhaps the mechanisms of observed instances of peripatric speciation is derived from revolutionary theories in Creationism? Or perhaps computer scientists developed evolutionary algorithms by mimicking processes of nature by..? Maybe also artificial mutagenesis in the application of agricultural breeding techniques is derived from the tenets of Young earth Creationism?
The goal of evolutionary belief is only to make you feel like you have the right to exist outside of Hell and cannot be punished for your sin in death
You seem persistent in this belief that everyone secretly agrees with you. Why would I be afraid of a place I don't think exists?
The arguments supporting intelligent design are simpler
Agreed.
because God created answers all of the problems science cannot answer.
In other words: It's better 'cause science is hard.
If you look at nature scientifically and honestly
I have, that's why I don't have to invent excuses for why virtually all the scientific experts disagree with me.
That is why evolutionary arguments are more complicated than simply studying science. You do not have to believe in God to be a scientist, but it is a waste of time and talent to try to prove He is not there.
I do not reckon that the existence of God and the veracity of Evolutionary Theory are mutually exclusive. Ken Miller, Ph.D of Molecular Biology, co-author of a series of Science textbooks that include Evolutionary theory, and expert witness at the Dover v Kitzmiller trial is a Roman Catholic. He believes in both God and Evolution. I don't believe Evolution because it disproves God because it doesn't, I believe Evolution because the consilience of evidence Indicates the existence of these processes. Whereas you appear to believe that Evolution if true would refute your notion of God.
Why are you ignoring the videos of the two men I asked you to watch? Are you afraid you won't be able to ignore them by slandering their character while you hold your fingers in your ears saying "na na na na naaaa na, you can't tell me anything"?
So you don't respect Hovin because he is a tax protester. I'm sure, like me, that as a good little boy you pay your taxes exactly as you are told by the feds to pay them. We are good boys, aren't we?
Let's see if you can smear the character of these highly accomplished scientists who worked most of their lives promoting evolution universities.
Here's a video for you.......maybe sat in class under this PhD when he was a professor of Biology at Tulane University and Medical School, or when he was dean of the graduate school.......Dr. Lungsden (not sure the name is spelled correctily) studied at Tulane, Harvard, and Rice. He used the same arguments as Dawkins and taught them to his students....and correct me if I'm wrong, but the man seems to me to be much more accomplished in education than Dawkins.
This seven minute video is him telling of his work and experience with science.
There are many similar scientists and professors I could show, but I like this one the best of all I've watched so far, and I hope you appreciate it.
And here's another one from one of the leading chemical evolutionary theorists in the world during the sixties and seventies. His famous contribution to evolutionary theory was "chemical predestination", or "biochemical predestination", and was co-author of the book "biochemical predestination". Many evolutionary biologists and scientists embraced his ideas. His book over the next twenty years was a bestselling text on the theory of chemical evolution. Maybe you have seen it or read it. The author is now professor of biology (emeritus) at San Francisco State University.
So you don't respect Hovin because he is a tax protester.
"Tax protestor"? That's a cute way of describing tax evasion. He was making multiple cash withdrawals totaling $430,500 in amounts just under the $10,000 which requires reporting, to hide his income from the IRS. That's a peculiar form of protesting.
I don't respect Hovind because he has all the intellectual integrity of a gnat.
Again, see if you can slander the character of the men in the two video links I gave you. I understand you are a goody two shoes and a better man than Hovin, so you are excused you for sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "na na na na naaaa naaaa" to block out any sound of the scientific facts he presents.
Try it while watching the videos presented above, but I doubt you can find a way to slander their character.
Try to discuss science without resorting to insults...like it or not, Hovind is much more accomplished in learning and teaching in the field of education than you are. The way you insult him only reflects on your own character and intelligence...pretending to be tough hiding behind insults to avoid facing facts requires no brains, just being a bully and the bigger they are, the harder they fall...and keep up the good work of accounting for everything you acquire by means of receiving, finding, or earning so that you can pay taxes on it according to the law and nobody can accuse you of being a tax fraud.
Try to discuss science without resorting to insults
You asked me why I didn't respect him and I told you, and you get offended. I've merely been explaining why he doesn't have the credentials he claims to have, and his history of dishonesty. If you want to discuss the science, by all means, present to me your best piece of evidence and we will discuss it.
like it or not, Hovind is much more accomplished in learning and teaching in the field of education than you are.
Unlike hovind, I attended a real accredited University and I have a real degree in a scientific field, albeit in the social sciences. I didn't buy my degree from a diploma mill.
The way you insult him only reflects on your own character and intelligence
Why do you ask me why I don't respect him if you're only going to get offended when I tell you? And what does it reflect upon you to defend a prison convict and known fraudster simply because he reaffirms your opinions on religion?
and keep up the good work of accounting for everything you acquire by means of receiving, finding, or earning so that you can pay taxes on it according to the law and nobody can accuse you of being a tax fraud.
Well, yes, if you don't commit tax fraud, you won't be accused of it. That's been my strategy so far, works quite well.
And by the way, social sciences is more propaganda than science......all they do is pump socialism/communism into your brain and make you think it's good.
I had enough of that garbage just to get some credits......what a waste, most or our "higher education" is a waste.
forget Hovind, look at the two videos, one is a PhD and the other a professor, both of high ranking universities, both highly educated and accomplished.
Your whole objection is nothing but insults.....go on and be a man and watch the videos and quit playing your juvenile delinquent games to make excuses for being ignorant......I know atheism teaches you these kind of manners, but try to put it aside for a minute. I doubt you will be able to discredit or slander the character of the men in the videos, but if that is the only way you can prolong your ignorance, I guess it works for you.
forget Hovind, look at the two videos, one is a PhD and the other a professor, both of high ranking universities, both highly educated and accomplished.
Highly educated and accomplished? Like the many hundreds of thousands of scientists around the world who's expert opinion and the overall near-unanimous consensus of the discipline that you dismiss out of hand without blinking, but you scrounge together a couple with fringe views you agree with, and suddenly education, expertise, and accomplishment matters. Basically education and expertise only matters when they agree with you. Interesting how that works.
In the video with Dr. Lumsden, a Ph.D. of Parasitology with extensive education in biology and they portray him using the term "Kinds" to describe taxonomic groups of organisms while he is supposedly still a "darwinist", and apparently he can't answer questions that are answered in a first year biology class. The process by which natural selection acts upon mutations to produce new traits is a fundamental concept of Evolutionary biology, what exactly is he teaching that doesn't include this? I find it really hard to believe that a Ph.D. couldn't answer this question. The whole video smells fishy to me.
Nevertheless
If you were to look at virtually any discipline you would find a small minority that holds some crank view. You would find a number of historians that deny the holocaust similar to the number of Biologists that believe in young earth Creationism. You would find a similar number of physicists that believe in "Free energy" and perpetual motion machines, than you do of biologists that accept young earth creationists. I've seen 9/11 truthers post lists of all the Engineers that agree with their crackpot conspiracies. These are fringe views that are not taken seriously in academia or in the scientific community, and for good reason.
Anybody who believes in evolution is a crank. You look at piles of bones and then expect me to believe that billions of years between the deaths of those animals is proof that one morphed into the other.
There is no need to believe this malarkey to study nature and apply science to invent and explore. To believe in evolution is not science. And yes, I called scientists who believe in evolution fools.
Sincere belief in things that cannot be tested or shown to be real is foolish. When you can take me to a zoo and I can watch a monkey morph into a man, then I will consider the theory of evolution may be a reality but I would require more than one example, and I would have to see the former monkey-man have children with a former-monkey woman....so it would require at least two monkeys to watch as the morph into people. If you expect me to believe it happened when you can't make it happen or show it happening, you are asking me to act like a monkey and be a fool. Some people get paid for promoting this nonsense, and they earn their money well by teaching people like you to believe hypothesis equals scientific evidence if you believe it strongly enough, and the key word in the brainwashing teaching method is "strongly" as the tactics of the teachers of these lies is bullying.....I sat under several atheistic college professors, and I have to admit they are smooth when they have the power of the institution backing them up and can make life miserable for a student who wants to earn a degree from them if that student dares to seriously challenge their beliefs.
The videos of the highly accomplished and respected professors of the some of the most famous institutions of learning who renounce atheist renounced it after they realized they could not answer true scientific inquiry of their belief when students presented them questions such I posted in "Questions for atheists, evolutionists, and evolutionary biologists". When confronted with such questions, not accepting beliefs as scientific responses, SOME honest scientists who believe in evolution will admit that their beliefs are insufficient to answer the questions and the only conclusion when they realize that is "OH MY GOD!", and the phrase is spoken in awe and not as an expletive.
Yes there are many sincere and honest people who believe in evolution.......but they have fooled themselves so much that they don't realize evolution is a dishonest theory.
The men in the two videos I presented were carbon copies of Dawkins in beliefs and in tactics of teaching those beliefs, but in science and education they are much more qualified than Dawkins who really never did anything other than run his mouth and study the behavior of lions or something like that...nothing a twelve year old could not do. That's evolutionary theory....just run your mouth, insult Christians and the Bible, and the ungodly mob will cheer you on and throw money to you. And you have to be duped to fall in step with them and parrot their beliefs.
yes, I called scientists who believe in evolution fools.
So what happened to "The men you are calling fools and cranks are much more educated and respected than you are", or does that only apply when they are Creationists?
Sincere belief in things that cannot be tested or shown to be real is foolish.
Brilliant! And which test demonstrates the existence of angels? Perhaps we can finally resolve this question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
When you can take me to a zoo and I can watch a monkey morph into a man, then I will consider the theory of evolution may be a reality
If I could do that, then I wouldn't believe in Evolution, because that would refute every notion of accumulated inherited traits in populations over multiple generations. It would circumvent every known mechanism of the change in allele frequencies. You just know that Evolution isn't Creation and perhaps that's enough for you, but the fact that you think this is what Evolution is or how it works tells me that you are not knowledgeable to have an informed discussion on the matter.
Some people get paid for promoting this nonsense, and they earn their money well by teaching people like you to believe hypothesis equals scientific evidence
No science course that I have ever sat through has taught any such thing.
I sat under several atheistic college professors, and I have to admit they are smooth when they have the power of the institution backing them up and can make life miserable for a student who wants to earn a degree from them if that student dares to seriously challenge their beliefs.
No, that was the plot of the movie God's Not Dead.
Yes there are many sincere and honest people who believe in evolution.......but they have fooled themselves so much that they don't realize evolution is a dishonest theory.
Given that you apparently believe that Evolution is "monkeys morphing into men", I'm not confident in your ability to give any sincere evaluation.
renounce atheist renounced it after they realized they could not answer true scientific inquiry
I know your ideological axe to grind with Evolution is predicated on your theological hang-ups, but Evolution is not equivalent with Atheism, not even tangentially. Even William Lane Craig, doesn't see Evolution and Theism as being necessarily opposed. You can either address evolution on a physical and evidential basis or you cannot.
The most educated person in the world can be a fool, and the least educated can be wise. Education does not determine wisdom. Have you been in school so long that you don't know what wisdom is?
There have been many reports by people who have impeccable reputations for honest of the appearances and influences of angels. There have been no sworn testimonials of anybody claiming to actually have seen monkeys morphing into people, or actually to have seen the Big Bang happen. .....yet you believe those things happened, do you not?
allele frequencies are not proof of monkeys or ape-like creatures morphing into people. I have had evolutionary concepts, so-called evidences, and all that garbage pumped down my throat for thirty years, and then for twenty years by choice I have continued reading the arguments. Evolution is a simplistic belief system, totally unnecessary for studying nature or any branch of science.
Nobody really knows what evolution is or how it works because it cannot be observed but must be believed real......it cannot be seen in reality but you still believe it happened and continued to happen because you were told to believe it and you don't have the backbone to stand up and demand answers to questions of science which prove evolution is impossible. You go with the flow of culture and politically correct institutionalized belief because you believe that a chicken and yourself are descendant of a fish and your beliefs are fish and your heart is chicken livered
The most educated person in the world can be a fool, and the least educated can be wise. Education does not determine wisdom.
Did you determine this before or after you said "The men you are calling fools and cranks are much more educated and respected than you are"? Or perhaps we should add this to your tab of self-contradictory arguments?
There have been many reports by people who have impeccable reputations for honest of the appearances and influences of angels.
Respected people have also reported Bigfoot, space aliens, and lake monsters. Anecdotes aren't testable. I do recall you saying "Sincere belief in things that cannot be tested or shown to be real is foolish". I'll just add it to your tab.
There have been no sworn testimonials of anybody claiming to actually have seen monkeys morphing into people
That's nice, but that's not what Evolution is, not that I've already explained this to you twice. Secondly, The unreliability of eye-witness testimony is well documented. Thricely, the testability of any theory is not just not limited to eye-witness testimony, it doesn't even include it.
Nobody really knows what evolution is or how it works
I've already told you what it is.
because it cannot be observed but must be believed real
If that's your litmus test for the incomprehensible... I'll let the irony of this statement sink in.
it cannot be seen in reality but you still believe
Well, actually it can; Both the effect --Biodiversity and speciation -- and the causal mechanisms such as gene insertion, gene duplication, selective breeding, gene flow, artificial selection etc.. in fact much of this has been reproduced under controlled conditions and is extensively documented in published scientific literature.
You counter-arguments appear largely limited to personal incredulity and special pleading.
because you were told to believe it
I was told to believe that life was instantaneously willed into existence more or less in present form via an act of divine invocation, and that I will suffer the fires of eternal torment if I reject this belief. You can guess which belief I was taught first, and yet here I am. Your desperate assumptions are just that. In lieu of sound arguments, all you have are ad hominems and emotional appeals. Nothing of any intellectual substance.
Good to see you are still with us and not burning in Hell. I doubt that you will get saved, but I hope you do before it's too late so I can see you in Heaven.
Did you determine this before or after you said "The men you are calling fools and cranks are much more educated and respected than you are"? Or perhaps we should add this to your tab of self-contradictory arguments?
Yep, you seem to be equating education with wisdom except for when the educated person does not agree with you in your beliefs...then they are cranks and looney tunes no matter how educated according to your brainiac reasoning.
I've seen a lot of things you would not believe.....not really important. What matters is whether you have eternal life in Heaven or eternal dying in condemnation of fire.
I know what the power of belief is capable of. It can cause us to see things that are not there, or cause us to interpret events in a way that confirms our beliefs. It is the reason why the placebo effect is so strong and so consistently documented.
Well whoever told you things were willed into existence more or less than as they are now in present form was lying. Things are a mess now, they were perfect and beautiful beyond what your darkened mind can imagine when they were created, and they will be that way again after God forever purges evil from creation and leaves it confined in prison of Hell fire......including your evil if you wont' stop being against God.
Ah, yes, were Adam and eve created without belly-buttons? This fantasy that lions were vegetarians and perhaps grazed on a salad with their pals the gazelles, along-side the tree-eating T-rex, is a modern permutation of Young earth Creationism taking the 'No death before the fall' to it's logical extreme. Risible as all this is, it really has no bearing on what I said, unless you want to suppose that the alleged behavioral differences were accompanied by anatomical difference: lions with a mouthful of grinding herbivore teeth or some such thing. That the form of life is pretty much in the form of how it has remained since the beginning of life, has been a central tenet of Creationism since before it was called creationism.
You think you are smarter than God, don't you? You think you have the right to exist outside of Hell, don't you? Why is it that you fail miserably to prove the things you believe?
You think you are smarter than God, don't you? You think you have the right to exist outside of Hell, don't you? Why is it that you fail miserably to prove the things you believe?
I've already answered this inane question twice. Do you think you will get a different answer the third time? Are you just going to badger me until I give you the answers you want?
I doubt you will give a different answer, but it is possible from the last time I asked you until now that you might have realize you're a fool for saying there is no God, and He is infinitely smarter, stronger, and better than you...but you think you are the god of you, and no god can be better than you......even though your corpse is falling apart in death and stinking more and more the farther it goes down, you still think you are the god of you.
All you are doing is saying you insist on having your reality void of goodness from God and God, because He loves you, will give you what you really want...eternity void of anything indicating He is good, and that is the fire of Hell. Keep on going against God and see where it gets you....and if you do, you will remember I tried to warn you and tell you how you could have been saved from it and you won't have any excuse. You're choosing Hell, believe it or not, fighting against your own life and losing it all.
Your blood is on your own head, soldier. Too much dust on my shoes here.
I've only ever said that I haven't found compelling reason to believe that a deity as yours exists. Apparently offended that I don't share your convictions, you've gone on to conjure this imaginary narrative about my malevolent motives, or secret unstated desires.
You realize SaintNow is a lost cause, right? His primary purpose for coming here is just to piss off Atheists, Agnostics, and any Theist that doesn't pass his muster. He isn't looking for a legitimate conversation on Evolution, or just about anything.
Yes. I realize this. I'm guessing that our conversations only further cement him into his view, but I scarcely go into a debate expecting to persuade the other side. That's a fool's errand. I debate him, firstly, because I enjoy it, and secondly, any undecided or wavering observers reading this will see the facile nature of his arguments when subjected to the light of every cursory criticism.
There is no legitimate discussion of evolution because you cannot show it happening. You expect me to be a coward in face of bullying tactics which silence questioning of your beliefs, and reject science which proves evolution is impossible. Science cannot prove God is not there, but it can prove evolution is impossible.....to start with, you can't show me evolution happening so it can't even be called a theory or a scientific research, it is nothing but a belief declared to be true so you must believe it to be science even though you cannot observe and test it.....science cannot observe evolution and there is no good reason I should believe it ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen.
There is no legitimate discussion of evolution because you cannot show it happening
You said you had scientific proof that evolution is impossible. That claim has failed to materialize, and instead you've resorted to emotional pleas, and ad hominems.
You expect me to be a coward in face of bullying tactics which silence questioning of your beliefs
I welcome you to challenge my beliefs, I just expect that when you claim to have proof, that you...ya know... actually present it. So far I have gotten a lot of "you are going to hell" speeches, and "no one has ever seen a monkey morph into a man" quips. If that is the level of intellectual sophistication that represents your position then this debate was lost long before it began.
This guy is much like me, except I would probably do a better job of getting you riled so your dander gets up and you fly off the handle completely. I would add the preaching of the gospel of God in Jesus Christ who died in our place and rose bodily from the dead offering forgiveness to all who will repent of their sin and believe on Him.
According to Mr. Youtube guy Evolution is called the Theory of Evolution because it has never been observed, ya know, just like Cell Theory and Germ Theory... erm, shit wait...
Here's a video of a person who hates God, hates Christians, teaching the "evidences" of evolution and insulting anybody who does not believe his opinion is correct.
This video is designed for evolutionists to bolster their faith so they are better able to explain their belief to friends, relatives, and neighbors......and I say why in the world should they care about a belief system which says life is meaningless and has no objective value? For some reason, this guy thinks it is important to spread his religion around, and I say why? what good is it to believe in evolution?
As crude, insulting, and childish the guy is toward anybody who does not believe what he believes, I watched it and found it to be stupid...the same old junk that has been pumped down my throat all my life with big mouth bullies like this guy telling me I better believe it or I deserve to be cursed and insulted every way imaginable. To imply this junk is hard to understand is ridiculous. I understood this garbage when I was a small child, and as I child I gave serious consideration to believing it......but even as a child I had more backbone than atheists today who cave in to peer pressure, and while I thought it may be possible I never really believed it to be true for several reasons.
They could not actually show it happening, they just told me it did and expected me to believe it.
If it were true, it would mean life is ultimately meaningless and there is no reason I should have to endure the evils of this world and not kill myself to get the Hell out of it, assuming Hell was the evil present in the world and not a place I would end up in eternal dying in fire.
Of course the whole thing implies there is no God who cares about me. I really don't care much, never did, for the concept of believing there is no God and I am not cared for by Him. The only thing that logically could exist outside of the universe would have to be God, and He can not be God if He is not good, and He cannot be good if He does not care about me.......I never could buy into a belief system like evolution which demands I believe life is meaningless and God could not care less.
You give no examples to back your opinions about the video. Not even one.
The whole you weren't there bit is not very useful and neither is asking to see something that takes millions of years to hsappen in front of you during your lifetime. Pretty unreasonable.
No one will ever change yoru mind but all can see how unrealistic and lopsided your standards of belief are.
If it were true, it would mean life is ultimately meaningless and there is no reason I should have to endure the evils of this world and not kill myself to get the Hell out of it, assuming Hell was the evil present in the world and not a place I would end up in eternal dying in fire.
No, it wouldn't, but I digress this is an emotional argument not a rational one.
Honestly I feel a bit uncomfortable debating with fervent believers, because I have noticed that many of the most fervent and vocal believers, are so for a reason, many I have noticed have experience truly terrible things. It would seem to me that religion for these people is a very comforting thing, and provides them with a way to cope with the harsh realities of the world. Many are creeping close to death's door, and are reacting in a way to soothe those anxieties. Church attendance, unsurprisingly is highest among the elderly and the poor.
Not for all, but for some religion is a crutch. My brother for instance is a devout Christian, he and I disagree on religion obviously. He has struggled with depression most of his life, and I have not. I don't like debating religion with him because I feel that if my arguments are successful he will no longer have that coping mechanism. It is a lose-lose proposition. I have a very strong mental resilience, but also I have been very fortunate in life for the most part. Am I kicking out a crutch, if I am persuasive in my arguments? But I don't go out looking to pick theological fights, they come to me -- in real life anyway. Debate sites like this are an outlet for me to exercise my wit and reason.
And this is me being as sincere and personal as you are likely to see.
Oh, so you then tell us, oh Mr. Know It All who is better than God,
what is the meaning of life? I can answer in three words....I doubt you can even begin to answer because you would have to write an encyclopedia explain why you don't know what life means but you'll try to give it some kind of meaning by your vast brain.
So you know the meaning of life, its origin, and the origin of the universe, but I'm the Know it all? Got it. Your fragile sense of pretentiousness is duly noted.
In three words I can tell you what life means. The meaning of life is that
Life means _
Three words. When you know the meaning of life, it only takes three words to express. You can't even figure out why you are here, can you? Is this too emotional for you, or is it too intellectual? Three words. I doubt you will ever figure it out. I doubt you would even try to tell me what life means, because you know I'll pick apart your logic and you will have to do all kinds of double talk mental gymnastics to avoid admitting you don't know what you are talking about....unless of course you simply say "life has no meaning".....one of the basic tenets of atheism. It's so hopeless of a belief that it's hard to get atheists to admit they simply believe life has no meaning.
In three words I can tell you what life means. The meaning of life is that..Life means _Three words. When you know the meaning of life, it only takes three words to express. You can't even figure out why you are here, can you? Is this too emotional for you, or is it too intellectual? Three words.
So that we have this straight. You want me to tell you, what you believe the meaning of life is? And this relates to the discussion how?
"life has no meaning".....one of the basic tenets of atheism
The fact that you are dying and have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell., and you can be saved from it by God the Savior, Jesus Christ...I thought you would have figured that out by now.
The fact that you are dying and have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell., and you can be saved from it by God the Savior, Jesus Christ...I thought you would have figured that out by now.
Are you hoping to scare me into belief through an appeal to consequence?
I gave up on you. I expect nothing but that you will go against God forever and forever insist you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell, even when you can't get out...I believe you are going to be cursing God repeatedly forever.
I just decided it's a waste of time to try to talk you out of it because you show absolutely no indication of being reasonable or caring about where you are going.;
Reasonable? Reason? What reason? What reason have you offered for anything? I have have asked you for reason repeatedly. What reason have you provided that Evolution is false and Creationism is true? You have offered fear pandering, and bald assertion, but not reason. I have asked you for the proof you have claimed to have, and you have returned empty handed. Your boasts have proven fruitless. You have badgered me, instead of addressing the content of my arguments. That is no reasonable. That is the opposite of reasonable. Neglecting to fall victim to your repeated and shameless fallacies, is not being unreasonable, it is the celebration of reason to refuse such invalid arguments.
Show me incontrovertible evidence, and if I deny still to entertain your ideas then you can accuse me of being unreasonable. Your failure to convince is not due to my lack of reasonableness, but owed solely to the poverty of your arguments.
You are dying and can't get out of it, you need to be saved and you can be saved....but you prefer to die saying you can't be saved. You are being completely irrational and unreasonable.....just go on doing what you are doing, but pardon me for agreeing with the Bible in Psalm 14.....well, I don't care if you pardon me or not. God has pardoned me and I'm forgiven, don't need your forgiveness. Psalm 14.
Please direct me to where I have asked to get out of it. There is no 'getting out of it'. There is nothing certain in this life but death and taxes. I've accepted my mortality long ago, seems you are still struggling with it.
There is no getting out of it if God does not get you out of it. Being unable to get out of it means you don't get out of it by dying. Dying never ends..it only changes places in time.
You are not accepting mortality, you are hoping to get out of it in death...a hopeless hope in which nothing really matters because if it were true for you, it would be true for everybody so it makes no difference if you do right or wrong or good or evil, honor or dishonor, shame or praise.......
Implying I am struggling with mortality means nothing other than I am not believing anybody un-exists in death. I see no hope in atheism. Coming to terms convinced of hopelessness is worthless. You can keep it if you want to.
This is a common twist in atheistic belief....."I accept my mortality, and if you are not an atheist it's because you are afraid to die". That's not only an insult, it's silly. In old days, people literally faced each other down in lethal duels over such an insult. I could challenge you to a duel over the insult and simply stand there and not draw my weapon....but I think God has better things for me to do or He would end my time here now. When called to battle, I do not hesitate to put myself on the field to do what is right to do whether this body falls in death or whether it is maimed or unhurt.
Atheism teaches you to stop asking questions and as a defense mechanism, insult anybody who challenges your belief. You are trying to get out of existence by dying, hoping to get out of existence by dying, telling yourself that you really are getting out of existence in death. You are in death and not getting out no matter how hard you try and I often dare people to prove me wrong on this but then I plead with them not to do it because God loves them and does not want them to go to Hell.
There is no getting out of it if God does not get you out of it.
You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this then.
You are not accepting mortality, you are hoping to get out of it in death
This is a bit self-refuting, isn't it? Death is the fruition of mortality, not its escape. The only escape of mortality is immortality - or as I see it: Wishful thinking. Rather, I've accepted my mortality by setting course for a long and fulfilling life.
I see no hope in atheism.
It makes no difference whether you see hope in it or not.
This is a common twist in atheistic belief....."I accept my mortality, and if you are not an atheist it's because you are afraid to die".
When you respond to a discussion on Evolution with your belief in an afterlife unsolicited, you invite those accusations. No one said anything about death or the afterlife, until you brought it into the discussion. Literally your first response to me in this thread.
That's not only an insult, it's silly. In old days, people literally faced each other down in lethal duels over such an insult.
Let me see if I understand this correctly. It's not insulting to insist that I accept Evolutionary Biology solely because I am trying to, and I quote, "feel like I have the right to exist outside of Hell", not to mention the numerous times you've called me ignorant, but if I suggest that your belief is the result of your death anxiety, then suddenly you are Lieutenant Colonel of the hurt feelings brigade.
insult anybody who challenges your belief
That's literally what you've been doing. The difference is that I haven't whined about it.
So you think you can get out of death without God getting you out of it?
Or you think science can get you out of it?
What are we disagreeing on? Try to convey your thoughts coherently please, try to tell me what it is that you are disagreeing on in a way I can understand.
For the sake of my sanity, will you at least attempt to consolidate your thoughts into one replay? This nonsense where you give 7 one or two sentence long replies to the same post is getting ridiculous. There is no reason you couldn't have included this all in the same reply.
I don't see any evidence of you being sane. Believing you came from nothing intelligent and nothing alive is not sane. Believing you get out of existence unpunished in death is not sane.
Why should I believe you have any sanity when you give me NO evidence to support your hypothesis?
I'm done with you. If you want a reality with absolute proof that nothing good is from God, you have it coming and you can't say you didn't want it and where do you think that will be? Do you smoke? If you don't, you're not far from it.
So death is the fruition of mortality, and the culminating proof of a long and fulfilling life? I thought billions of years is a long time, are you trying to tell me you are going to live for billions or years, or are you going to live a short time, or it time irrelevant since life has no meaning and intelligence came from nothing?
I have consolidated your replies for you below, and followed-up each with my response:
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So you think you can get out of death without God getting you out of it?
Have I not been exceedingly clear on this? I have stated: "There is no getting out of death". Period. End of statement. I couldn't possibly be any clearer than this.
Or you think science can get you out of it?
sigh
What are we disagreeing on? try to tell me what it is that you are disagreeing on in a way I can understand.
In a way you can understand? If you don't understand "There is no getting out of death", then nothing is going to help you, as your incomprehension is self-imposed.
So death is the fruition of mortality
Yes.
I thought billions of years is a long time, are you trying to tell me you are going to live for billions or years, or are you going to live a short time
'Long' is a relative term. 1,000 years is a very short amount of time on a geologic time scale, but a very long time on a human time scale. Living 90 years, for a human, is a long time.
or it time irrelevant since life has no meaning and intelligence came from nothing?
Strawman
You find my questions to be insulting because when I point out the simplicity of your beliefs
Firstly, you have admitted that your position is simpler.
Saintnow: "The arguments supporting intelligent design are simpler"
Secondly, you "pointing out" simplicity has consisted entirely of you manufacturing Reductio ad Absurdum arguments.
Thirdly, what I find insulting is when someone insists that they know what I believer better than I do. To say nothing of the naivety of such an insistence.
they are obviously absurd
Everything looks absurd when you ignore the complexity surrounding it.
My points and questions are not insulting, they simply show the folly
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So let me get this straight.
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"You only believe X because you are afraid of death" = Insulting
"You only believe X because you are afraid of Hell" = Not insulting
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of your pride and you hate to concede so you refer to truth as insults and try to tell me how much better you are than your brother.....I don't buy it, sorry.
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I never said I was better than anyone. I said that he uses religion to cope with the stress of life, which is true. This doesn't make him a bad person. In fact, my Brother is a great person. I will be the first to tell you that.
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Your insistence on believing in evolution implies God is not there
Not to anyone except you. I have stated more than once, that Evolution doesn't refute or disprove the existence of God. Evolutionary Biology is no more atheistic than the Coriolis effect, the water cycle, Germ theory, Continental drift, or any other process or description of nature. None of theses other naturalistic processes have to invoke God as part of their explanation.
Why do you want to shove it down my throat and try to force me to believe it?
I'm not forcing you to believe anything. I've previously stated that I don't go into any debate expecting to persuade the other side, however this is a debate website, and if you present dubious ideas, I am going to challenge them.
What good is evolution that you think it's good for me to believe in it?
This underlies the fundamental problem with Creationist thinking. Why does it have to be good for you? You form your beliefs around things based on whether you perceive them as being good for you. You should believe it because it is true. You shouldn't need any other reason.
Why do you always want to avoid talking about the things you imply and believe?
And what are those?
I think you are maybe beginning to understand, and I suggest you change your story and deny what you have said.
And why would I do that?
I see no hope in atheism. I like having hope, knowing the things promised to me will be fulfilled.
Whether something gives you hope is irrelevant to whether or not it is true.
Let me see if I get this straight. You ask me this same inane question in every thread, in every debate, regardless of what the actual topic of that debate is, but in the thread you created where that is actually the topic, where I attempt to engage honestly and genuinely to discuss that topic, and you ban me because you don't like my answer. Got it! I can't think of anyone one this site that behaves as childish or as spineless as you. You have taxed my patience for long enough, you no longer get that benefit.
You find my questions to be insulting because when I point out the simplicity of your beliefs, they are obviously absurd and you are too proud to admit it. My points and questions are not insulting, they simply show the folly of your pride and you hate to concede so you refer to truth as insults and try to tell me how much better you are than your brother.....I don't buy it, sorry.
Your insistence on believing in evolution implies God is not there and your arrogant opinion is unsolicited. Why do you want to shove it down my throat and try to force me to believe it? What good is evolution that you think it's good for me to believe in it?
Why do you always want to avoid talking about the things you imply and believe?
You are mistaken. I'm not bothered by you stating your sincere belief. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. However if you are complaining about something that you yourself have done on multiple occasions, then I'm damn sure going to point it out. I just thought it was amusing how thin-skinned you suddenly become when others behave as you do. As lieutenant colonel of the hurt feelings brigade, perhaps you ought to challenge me to a duel every-time your ego is bruised.
You're a joke. If you want to believe there is nothing good from God, you will have undeniable proof of your belief in the fire of Hell. If you want to believe you get out of existence in death and are unpunished, that's not skin off my nose and you don't hurt my feelings in the least.
Believing you are getting out of existence unpunished makes you nothing more than a tragic comedy, and we will see who is wrong, won't we? You believe you can never know because you think you un-exist before you can know, I believe you are a proud and bad fool, I think it's sad for you and it you are not hurting me in the least. Cuss and insult untill are blue in the face if that's the way you want to go out and it's not my fault or God's if you wake up in Hell before you realize you were wrong. Why do I suspect you are Smilingbob? Doesn't matter, I gave up on him a while back
Why don't you go point at your brother? You seem to enjoy gloating over his faults and weaknesses as if they prove you are better than him....go point at your brother before either of you is blue in the face
Bo, you are on your way to Hell with one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire. If you think your time is long now, just wait and see how long it feels when you can't get out of the fire.
I thank you for the kind words, but truthfully I do not deserve them. The only thing I have sacrificed is a bit of my time for uncle sam, and my aspirations for a beard. I have been well compensated for both.
I do not deserve the sacrifices made by my countrymen to protect me. They gave because they wanted to, or because they had to out of duty. Either way, they gave what I do not deserve. I deserve nothing good, I do not deserve life.
I deserve only one thing, and who can tell me why it is withheld from me? I deserve nothing but dying, and when it is finalized life has been much more than fair in that so much undeserved goodness has been given to me.
Tell me I'm wrong and I'll say you are unreasonable and can't be reasoned with.
The only compensation I really deserve is to be put to death. Sure, I can cry "foul" and perhaps even sue somebody who withholds from me that which is rightfully mine, but I can't do it unless time is given to me...and I do not deserve time. Everything good is a gift to be thankful for, every moment of time is a gift to be thankful for so that even when I am mistreated and things seem bad or wrong, I am still thankful for the time I have.
And I am thankful to everybody who works in order to guard my property and freedom. If timing and circumstance had been different in my life, I would have done most likely at least four years of military. It would be little in comparison how much has been done for me.
So I thank God for everything every moment, and the only way I can begin to adequately honor Him is to jump for joy and shout Glory!!! Praise the LORD!!!! it is he who has made me.
I have no hope for you whatsoever. I expect you will remain a proud and brave fool as long as you possibly can. That is not hope. That's just accepting reality based on your own words. I give up on you and hold out no hope for you whatsoever. You are not my problem.
Knowing the meaning of life is only beginning to know anything. That's a little poetic license in that statement, as the beginning of knowledge technically takes five words to define. " is the beginning of knowledge"
You are the pretender here, pretending that you have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell. You are the pretentious one, assuming you are justified to live by your own existence when reality of death you are in should tell you that you are not justified to live, and have no right to live outside of Hell as a sinner who is turned against and away from God.
You pretend to be brave and strong to face death......and maybe you are, but any fool can be brave and strong.
You're only fooling yourself, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's a waste of time trying to talk you out of your self-destruction.
You're only fooling yourself, and I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's a waste of time trying to talk you out of your self-destruction.
I don't find emotional and presuppositional arguments persuasive, so perhaps it is. Perhaps if you could at some point shift the focus of your ire away from me as a person and actually address the content of my arguments with something resembling a rational rebuttal, then you might have more success. As much as you bleated on about me 'slandering' Kent Hovind for being a fraudster, you haven't restrained your comments towards me.
So you are not persuaded to stop fooling yourself into believing you have the right to exist outside of Hell.......and you are not persuaded that you are fooling yourself.....and you think you are bigger, better, smarter, and stronger than God.
Inasmuch as your "you are going to hell" speech is merely an appeal to consequence, which we ought to take as true for the apparent fact that you said that it is, no I haven't found you to be particularly persuasive.
To quote Voltaire "the interest I have to believe a thing is no proof that such a thing exists"
Your arguments are, to say the least, quite terrible. And you should feel bad for using them.
It seems to me that you might for your own sake care about where you are going, but you've made it pretty clear you don't care. All you want to do is try to justify yourself by arguing, and you ignore the fact that it is impossible to justify yourself and probably insist you need no justification to live....which leaves you where? I'll give you a clue...the last to letters look like double tooth picks.
But the appeal to consequence isn't rational. It's an invalid argument. As scary as hell sounds, unless you can show that it actually exists, then it's moot.
I was in the same corner as you, and then you shitposted, not once, but Twice.
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First. let's get the personal attacks out of the way. I AM BROKEN. I don't claim to be whole. now that we have that done lets get to the actual argument. the one I made in the first post was pretty much amply clear
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The question is broken because it makes the erroneous assumption that one cannot be a creationist AND a proponent of evolution. I understand that for some (Perhaps such as yourself) believe you must be one, or the other. I however am Both. therefore the question is broken. Because I do not wish to argue against evolution, as a creationist, since Evolution is part of my Worldview.
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if there's a problem with that, then please I'd love to discuss with you. make a new thread for us to discuss what problems you think my worldview has. I answered the Stupid and broken question here to the best of my abilities. It is False that many creationists do not understand evolution enough to argue against it. But I'm not sure why the question asker thinks you HAVE to argue against it if you are a creationist.
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other than that I've had enough of your Sass. have a pleasant day
I don't want allies who are snakes in the grass.........like you would be. I drove the guy away on purpose, I saw he was trying to upstage me with heretical ideas, I'm not interested and I'm no longer interested in your belief of having the right as a sinner to exist outside of Hell. Find out for yourself, I'm tired of you.
You haven't ever taken the time to see things from anyone elses' perspective. I discount the existence of your God the same way you discount the existence of countless other gods.
Spent more time than it was worth on you, I guess. Go see for yourself if you have the right to exist outside of Hell....I hope you see before it's too late and can't get out of Hell.
I'm really not interested in arguing with you, no point in arguing with a fool.
What time did you waste exactly? If you valued your time, then you would not have spent so much of it launching bargain bin insults. I come here looking for genuine discussion, you have flat refused to engage sincerely in any kind of thoughtful discussion or to answer my questions.
Why don't you go try to make your brother feel bad? You're not making me feel bad in the least. I just want to burst your little bubble there as I shake the dust off my feet and leave you to find out for yourself if you can get out of punishment in death and not be dying in fire forever.
Insomuch as you think you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner and will not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, I must conclude my efforts to get you to see the truth amount to casting pearls before swine and I should have walked away a long time ago.
Oh, so you then tell us, oh Mr. Know It All who is better than God,
what is the meaning of life? I can answer in three words....I doubt you can even begin to answer because you would have to write an encyclopedia explain why you don't know what life means but you'll try to give it some kind of meaning by your vast brain.
How can you be persuasive in your arguments when you don't know the meaning of life? Are you afraid you will convince your brother to believe as you that life has no objective meaning and no objective value, and in realization of that he might blow his brains out?
You insult people of faith and then say you don't go out to pick fights? I say you are a liar.
Why don't you check out the inventor of the MRI machine who always invented intricate mechanisms used in space exploration on craft sent into space for studying the universe? See who he is and see what he believes. The man who revolutionized modern medicine by inventing the MRI machine believes the same things as me regarding evolution and the creation of matter and life.
I suppose he's a crank and a nut job in your book too. Your book is a nutjob.
The men you are calling fools and cranks are much more educated and respected than you are.
If you want to see real fraud, look at this...........but I doubt you care about facts because you are hung up on your beliefs as if they will keep you out of Hell.
The men you are calling fools and cranks are much more educated and respected than you are.
If you want to see real fraud, look at this...........but I doubt you care about facts because you are hung up on your beliefs as if they will keep you out of Hell.
polonium radial halos, and the evolutionary principal of uniformity...assuming all things continue as they have since the beginning of time...cannot both be real. Polonium radial halos in granite prove the existence of primordial paolonium which previously was believed to occur only as a result of the decay process in radioactive elements.
I'm not an accomplished scientist myself, just a hobbyist, but in the following video you can watch breakthrough scientific discovery and solid evidence open for all peer review, discoveries made using state of the art equipment that must cost a fortune or two........
The video is perhaps a bit deep in real science for a social sciences guru, but if you pay attention you will end up either saying "I don't care what the facts are, I believe in evolution" or you will have to reconsider the brainwashing you have gotten from evolutionists. Evolutionists generally don't care about the facts, and only build on their beliefs twisting their deductions in spite of facts which prove their assumptions are impossible.
Palonium radio haloes in granite are a complete mystery to those who believe in billions of years, as they could have only formed in a moment when granite was formed in a moment which would be a miracle.....so the evidence is ignored by evolutionists.
Well, no not really. Assuming Gentry's unreplicated findings are correct in identifying the po-halos, and hasn't misidentified saturation effects, as his descriptions of the geologic setting was less than ideal, both uranium and radon can produce polonium; randon produces polonium as a byproduct of decay. Why this uranium present in the magmatic source material supplying the polonium for the subsequent 5 million years or so isn't considered in Gentry's analysis is anyone's guess.
the halos in the granite could not appear except by the granite being formed in a moment. This fact is ignored in all of the arguments you use as red herrings, and the red herrings are preferred evasion tactics of people who cannot deal with the idea that God overrules them personally.
https://youtu.be/04V5PA5h2j0 In this video, the head of the human genome project, Dr. Francis Collins, explains how and why he became a Christian.
Palonium radio haloes in granite are a complete mystery to those who believe in billions of years, as they could have only formed in a moment when granite was formed in a moment which would be a miracle.....so the evidence is ignored by evolutionists.
Belief in billions of years is contradicted by scientific facts as is evolution. I have heard and read evolutionary science and theories for fifty years, I still read evolutionist materials and results of physics and scientific studies and discoveries because I enjoy learning the mechanics of nature and living things. My SAT scores put me among the highest in the nation for mechanical aptitude which includes math and science. I simply never cared for all the discipline of serious study and publication of results I find. I would much rather be cutting down trees like I plan on doing in my yard over the next couple weeks....got some monster trees I want to conquer before I'm too old, finally got all the climbing gear together and my ground helper lined up......
and the thing I enjoy most is trying to get atheists to see they need to be saved from dying before they wake up in eternal dying in Hell. I much prefer the philosophical approach over the scientific arguments, but I am well equipped even before the internet was invented to make those arguments...education is so lazybones now with it all at our fingertips.
polonium radial halos, and the evolutionary principal of uniformity...assuming all things continue as they have since the beginning of time...cannot both be real. Polonium radial halos in granite prove the existence of primordial paolonium which previously was believed to occur only as a result of the decay process in radioactive elements.
I'm not an accomplished scientist myself, just a hobbyist, but in the following video you can watch breakthrough scientific discovery and solid evidence open for all peer review, discoveries made using state of the art equipment that must cost a fortune or two........
The video is perhaps a bit deep in real science for a social sciences guru, but if you pay attention you will end up either saying "I don't care what the facts are, I believe in evolution" or you will have to reconsider the brainwashing you have gotten from evolutionists. Evolutionists generally don't care about the facts, and only build on their beliefs twisting their deductions in spite of facts which prove their assumptions are impossible.
Some of Gentry's samples are known to have been taken from metamorphic rocks and pegmatite veins that are intruded into, or occur on top of, sedimentary rocks - sometimes even fossil-bearing rocks (Collins, 1997a, 1988a, 2000; Wakefield, 1988a, 1988b, 1990). Logically, such veins must be younger than the sedimentary layers, and therefore cannot be primordial "creation rocks" as Gentry claims. Gentry has tried to deny some of this evidence, but it is extensive and well documented, and acknowledged even by other creationists (DeYoung, 2006; Snelling, 2002, 2003; Wise, 1989).
you are ignoring the basic fact that the halos cannot appear except they were captured in a moment of time when the granite was formed. All the arguing about layers and what's on top of this or that in regard to the reality of the halos is nothing but a red herring trying to avoid looking at the evidence.........typical of evolutionists who are afraid of the truth because they think they have the right to exist outside of Hell and know their lives will be forever changed if they stop clinging to their belief in things which are not scientific but rather hypothetical with beliefs declared as proof.
the evidence you are referring to has nothing to do with the fact that the polodium (spell check) which caused the halos appears independent of the only known source of polonium being a step in the process of radioactive decay. You are ignoring the evidence, and using evidence of things that are irrelevant to the facts as red herrings to distract from reality.
If an evolutionist will honestly look at nature, they will see that the whole evolutionary proposition is an orchestrated fraud, sincerely believed to be true by it's proponents because it helps calm their desperation in needing to feel convinced that there is no punishment in death and they are good for life and do not deserve to die and burn in Hell.
I suppose next you're going to be citing the Paluxy tracks, the Acámbaro figures, or some other creationist claim that has been refuted dozens of times yet still gets recycled.
You are denying and ignoring the indisputable facts of Gentries discoveries.
Try thinking for yourself instead of always looking for a way to trash a persons character when they present facts which cannot be explained by your beliefs. Your letting people tell you how to act. Evolutionists dominate by being bullies and doing everything they can to insult and silence people who do not agree with them. I like to think you are better than that since you are military and understand acting according to what you know, and not trusting what people tell you to believe when they do not have authority for the things they are telling you.
I'm not an accomplished scientist myself, just a hobbyist
I believe that you've consumed a voluminous amount of creationist apologetics over the years, it would explain why you are citing information 30 years out of date.
The video is perhaps a bit deep in real science for a social sciences guru
You do realize that anthropology is a social science, right?
That being said man is an ape, by definition. If you know what an ape is, what defines an ape, then you know that Man is one. Linnaeus, the father of taxonomy, and himself a creationist first categorized man as a primate specifically. That man descended from apes, himself still being one, is incontrovertible.
The video you present, cites numerous misleading or outright false claims. Among them is the claim that Lucy's knee joint was found over a mile away, and deeper then the rest of her remains. This claim is false.
Your video has to be a joke, it is utter garbage. It doesn't present an "evolutionists" point of view but rather a creationsist point of view of what they think evolution is.
I am pretty sure you wouldn't know good science from bad. I mean how much the equipment costs doesn't lend any validity to the argument.
Here's a video for you.......maybe you sat in class under this PhD when he was a professor of Biology at Tulane University and Medical School, or when he was dean of the graduate school.......Dr. Lungsden (not sure the name is spelled correctily) studied at Tulane, Harvard, and Rice. He used the same arguments as Dawkins and taught them to his students....and correct me if I'm wrong, but the man seems to me to be much more accomplished in education than Dawkins.
This seven minute video is him telling of his work and experience with science.
There are many similar scientists and professors I could show, but I like this one the best of all I've watched so far, and I hope you appreciate it.
And here's another one from one of the leading chemical evolutionary theorists in the world during the sixties and seventies. His famous contribution to evolutionary theory was "chemical predestination", or "biochemical predestination", and was co-author of the book "biochemical predestination". Many evolutionary biologists and scientists embraced his ideas. His book over the next twenty years was a bestselling text on the theory of chemical evolution. Maybe you have seen it or read it. The author is now professor of biology (emeritus) at San Francisco State University.
That was a very specific question. Pulling together stories from several ancient books, most of which have nothing to do with God - and calling this compilation divine - is certainly blasphemy. I wonder what happened to these evil people.
it's a specifically stupid rhetorical question. Stupid people ask stupid questions, and all you are doing is making rhetoric and not asking questions because you enjoy being stupid.
No need, I have all my teeth except the wisdom teeth pulled by the dentist...three were pulled. Now, if you made it past third grade, you should be able to count my teeth without me smiling, you stupid foul mouth punk.
My mouth is just fine, the only foul thing here is you. The language I sued was totally adequate. It isn't foul to call a whore a whore. You are the punk, and I'm the one telling you about it. You are not Christian and have no right to preach anything here. Are you being paid to discredit Chrisitanity?
By counting your teath, I meant counting them when the're in front of you on the floor.
Your speech was profane and your manners punky so I'm calling you a foul mouth punk, and denying your bad behavior is not helping to convince me that you are mature enough to carry on an intellectual conversation.
I don't know why you think I am reading your stuff, I don't know why you keep replying other than that you are a punk and you hate the truth.
My manners were adequate because I'm talking to a punk who pretends to be Christian. A traitor like you deserves much worse language, it would be bad manners not to call you what I've called you. There is nothing intellectual about what you say here, and nothing in your behavior shows that you're a Christian. You keep reading my stuff, because you started this and you just can't shut the fuck up. Well I'm helping you to. Got troll someplace else.
I do believe Saintnow is right about you using rhetoric. I will answer your question anyway. Jesus saves! He saves those who lived before he took human form, during and after. The authors of the Old Testament (Moses, David, etc) wrote of Jesus in many of there writings. They understood that there teaching are intended to lead those who trust in them to Christ Jesus. If you had a little understanding of the scriptures you would know that those who followed God's word don't end up in purgatory or hell. You ask what happened to them. The scripture teaches us that those who die on earth before judgment day either are sleep (unconscious), in heaven (some will never taste death) or in hell. All awaiting judgment day. For all shall appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
There is no reason to think inherent rhetoric can make a question more difficult to answer. In fact, my question was pretty straightforward. Even if it did contain implicit statements.
Also, you completely missed the point of my question. I wasn't asking about Moses and David, but rather about the "e.t.c.". Those people who added a huge amount of (presumably) Jewish fairy tales to a divine text. And also about those people who later canonized the whole book and marked it as "holy". Which it definitely isn't, if we talk about the book in its entirety.
I would consider it as an offense against God, when somebody attributes obviously self -contradictory qualities to Him. Most of those stupid tales have nothing to do with Yahweh.
You just made many accusations. Could you be more specific as to who is the etc. you are talking about? Because there are no contradictions in the Bible. Anyone who says there are just lacks understanding. Please if you have the time educate me.
What is an argument to believe in the Christian god over other gods?
What I mean is you often hear a religous argument concerning cosmology or something that some believers think supports there existing in some way a powerful deity...but this deity is not necessarily by those arguments the Christian god.
Same can be said for other arguments like Pacals wager.
Often times when one ventures in to prove there is a god they are not discussing a Christian god but some generic idea of a god.
So what is an argument for Christianity specifically.
I guess you are not listening, so I'll present the argument again in question form.......
Why do you believe you have the right to exist outside of Hell when dying shows you have no right to live anywhere at all? You answer this question so that you know you are right and will die before allowing others to force you to say you may be wrong......and then you will know why Christianity is living in the Kingdom of Heaven and there is no other hope of life.
I don't think you want the answer. I think you love your sin more than life and don't care if it is taking you down in your dying to never ending dying in Hell's fire.
Jesus Christ is God, He is not the Christian god. A "god" is a created thing, an idol. You are asking stupid questions, starting off by changing God into a god in order to deny that He is God. You are not asking questions, you are making rhetorical statements framed as stupid questions while you pretend that being stupid makes you look smart.
So no...you can't make an argument for believing in Christianity, but you can make accusations at people showing you do not understand what is being asked of you. Maybe this is hard for you because you weren't reasoned into your position.
Expect no further reply unless you can muster an argument for believing in your god and not just a generic god.
I don't have a god, God has me. He is my God and he would be your God but you want Him to leave you in Hell alone. I don't have Him like I have possessions, I am possessed by Him as He owns me, bought and paid for me with His own blood. The things you are asking, you cannot have an answer for because you are framing lies as if what you say is true. You are doing all you can to cancel the answer before you ask the question. You have to change your question or you will never get the answer your illogical question excludes. God is God, there is no god that is God. Until you acknowledge He is God in your questioning, you will always have nothing but stupid questions and they are stupid questions because you already know your answer by the way you frame the questions. You do not accept God as being God, that is your answer and even though it's a mistake, you believe you are justified to make it so go on with it as long as God allows you. I sure hope you prove me wrong, friend. I do not want for you what by all appearances you are going to get.
I don't expect anything from you, you might be dead and gone before you read this. I expect God to keep His promises and He does because He is God. You are not God, why should I expect anything from you?
These people for the most part are not asking questions, they are making rhetoric masked as stupid questions. They have rejected the answer before the question is asked, and are only making rhetoric framed as stupid questions feigning ignorance to be intelligence.
Or you just aren't capable of answering the questions the way they want. I've seen the comments you've put up. They've been mainly accusations and just straight avoiding the question entirely. You sir, do not belong in this website or on any kind of website that people can comment on
How can you really believe prayer works? Except as an emotional placebo for the person doing the praying?
Give us ONE EXAMPLE of a time in your life--out of all the thousands of prayers you have done--where you can prove that the prayer worked, and the result you are citing could have not bee merely form natural causes.
This should not be difficult, out of the dozens of Christians here and figure they all have prayed thousands of times, and all I ask for is ONE example.
Yet...I highly doubt I will get even one remotely satisfying answer.
Nope. Not at all. So long as they admit that and do not try to tell me fairytale stories of dead Jewish carpenters come to life or imaginary friends who are supernatural and personal dieties who can furnish them an after life.
That is when I get annoyed.
But as long as they admit to needing an emotional crutch or placebo that's fine. I just chalknit up to weakness and delusion and let it go.
You answered your question in the first sentence. BELIEVE. How do you measure belief or faith. Will you use a measuring cup. You highly doubt you will get one remotely satisfying answer because you have no faith. 1 Corinthians 1:22 "for the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks after wisdom: but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jew a stumbling block, and unto the Greek foolishness; but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
SlapShot you called it empty rhetoric so I'll try to simplify the answer for you. If I told you that a doctor diagnosed my friend with cancer and predicted his out come. My friend prayed to God and the next time he went to the Doctor's office his doctor could not explain to him what happened. This would not be enough for you. If I told you of the millions of witness testimony of miraculous healing. You would not believe any of them. If God spoke to you today you would immediately check yourself into a psychiatric hospital. If you were born ages ago you would have seen God's signs and miracles. But just as you don't believe today there were many unbelievers then. They tested God and made him prove him self. So here is a scripture for you. Hebrews 3:7-Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost said, today if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made par takers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, today if you hear his voice harden not your hearts as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: how be it not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." You should stop calling this pathetic, laughable and weak and get down on your knees and pray to God for Faith and understanding.
Because God's word is powerful. I wouldn't want to misspeak or misrepresent God. Also there are too many people in this world just listening to others so I want you to know my source. I'm not looking for a miraculous change in thought but just to represent God to the best of my ability. Whether or not you change is between you and God.
I was more asking about the nature of divine inspiration, though I suppose you could ask that as well.
I know the next coming is supposed to be the end times, but even that is messed up. One and done? Not very forgiving or understanding for am omniscient, omnipotent being.
There will be an innumerable multitude saved by God's word. So he is very forgiving. As for the end time, I understand as a Christian that I we will be persecuted beyond measure. We will not be able to trade, or own anything. This is a fearful time for Christians also. The difference is we know that there will be a great reward for all them that keep the faith.
There will be an innumerable multitude saved by God's word. So he is very forgiving.
Yet by his own word that "innumerable multitude" will be far from the majority of humanity. So you are saying that by creating humanity and sending the majority to be eternally punished, he can still be "forgiving". He can't be forgiving, and have eternal punishment. Those are mutually exclusive.
As for the end time, I understand as a Christian that I we will be persecuted beyond measure. We will not be able to trade, or own anything. This is a fearful time for Christians also. The difference is we know that there will be a great reward for all them that keep the faith.
I still find this questionable, considering how Christians are the overwhelming majority in the Western World and hold all the political power...
God isn't making the choice for the majority. There choice to practice evil knowing they will be punished for there evil deeds falls on them. Mercy and forgiveness came through God's grace which is Jesus. Because all have sinned and deserve death to pay for there sin. Those that choose to accept God's mercy will receive it. The Bible has many prophecies in it. Many which have already come to pass and many which are yet to come. Persecution will come to us who call Jesus our lord and saviour. As you can already see Christians are being persecuted daily even unto death. Isis is paving the way for the anti-Christ. What you don't see is non-believers getting sick and tired of religion as a whole. The Bible says the anti-Christ won't recognize God and will ban any religious practices. The will be the greatest persecution of Christians.
It most certainly does have persuasive power. I did not believe the Bible was the word of God when I was listening to Bible teachers before I believed...but the word of God is quick (that's "lively" just incase you have been smoking dope and watching video games instead of reading and learning English) and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You will be convinced or convicted by the word of God. Most people are convicted so they try to get away from it.
You do not get a satisfying answer because you start from the position of denying God as the explanation of why people pray for answers and get them. You will say that when they pray for things and don't get them, it proves that when they do get what they pray for it is only chance.
I know God answers my prayers, and when "no" is the answer it is because He knows what is best for me. I pray for you to get saved if you will get saved or not. If you do, I know God answered my prayer and used me as His megaphone to speak to you. If you don't, I know God heard my prayer because it is His will that you get saved, and if I ask anything according to His will He hears me. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Most people will not admit they have no ground to stand on with God and will not humble themselves to seek His mercy. I pray for all of the people here to get saved, but I know it's more likely that most or all of them will not get saved and will be lost forever in eternal condemnation for their sin which separates them from God. Some of them seem so hardened against the possibility of God calling them personally into knowing Him, I waste no time trying to reason with them. I don't know why I see you as different from most of them, somehow I think you will listen to reason and come into agreement with God regarding His right to punish sin, and find His pardon through knowing He took your punishment in death and death cannot hold you in the ground as it could not hold Him in the ground if you will receive Him as He is, the Living God, the giver of our life and your life will be new because He will live in you by His Holy Spirit if you will hear his voice and open the door to Him.
