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Race and Gender Politics
Should race and gender be a consideration when voting for a presidential candidate? The Democrats seem think so since they are constantly bringing up the issue at every election. I don't think either qualifies you for anything, especially an elected office. Democrats think you're too stupid to see through their ruse. I think they're wrong. What do you think; do you think race and gender should be considered when voting?
It's not a matter of whether or not they should, it's a matter of whether or not they are.
The reality is that they are, either subconsciously or consciously. That's not a partisan claim.
Now if you are "too stupid" (to use your terms) or simply haven't actually looked into the problem itself, you might think that it's only the Democrats who do that.
I totally agree! People judge people based on their race, gender, and religion AS WELL AS their political ideologies and policies. No matter what we do, people will always be biased. Democrats use race and gender to gain votes. Republicans use race and gender to gain votes.
It works on both sides. Obama became president (Black), Hillary is a frontrunner (woman), and Bernie Sanders is also a frontrunner (Jewish).
George Bush Jr. became president (White Christian Male), Ted Cruz is a frontrunner (White Christian Male), and Donald Trump is also a frontrunner (White Christian Male).
You can't say one side reflects our population the best...
I remember when Megyn Kelly made the statement that Santa Claus and Jesus are both white to kids. As a response to that, the left pointed out that Jesus was most likely brown, and Santa is a fictional character that is a different color depending on the household.
I also remember when NFL player Richie Incognito got in trouble for hazing and harassinga rookie. Comments were made like "the rookie should man up" and "it's just part of the game".
But similarly when Richard Sherman, another football player, was hyped about the game and arrogantly claimed to be the best cornerback in the league. He was called an "arrogant thug". And it is clear that the word "thug" in this day in age is reserved for African American young men. Why can't Sherman, in the spirit of competition, brag about his record as an athlete without being called thug, even though he was not being criminal or violent, yet Incognito, the real thug, is simply being called your typical jock.
In all honesty, the right never point out race by name, but just because they don't say "Black" doesn't mean they aren't engaging in race politics. Their tactic is different. What they like to do is present a false perception of "color blindedness" but then when it comes actual race issues, use code words and indirect allusions to play the race.
Not to mention the fact that they brush these issues off. For instance Rand Paul presented some good numbers involving race and our criminal justice system, and received a decent applause. However, whenever blacks and liberals bring these things up, we are race baiting. As if it is wrong to point out that blacks and whites use drugs at about the same rate but blacks are far more likely to be arrested and convicted for non-violent drug-related crime.
At the end of the day there are issues that affect certain races more so than others, and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.
But I digress, the main point is that, both sides engage in race politics, it's just more obvious when liberals do it. The same can be said about gender politics.
Maybe because the right denies that racism/sexism even exists and thinks that the White Christian Males are the ones who are being discriminated against.
How about a quota system at colleges that requires a certain percentage of the student body be minorities. The Democrats all for that one, all of them.
Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
Racial quotas, while misguided attempts that have failed, are not predicated on any race being inferior or superior. It is purely predicated upon attempting to end the ethnic disparity in college attendance.
Like I said, it was misguided and it has failed for the most part, but it isn't racist.
Just for the record then. An all white neighborhood that keeps black families out for the sake of keeping home values high is then not racist. Just so we are clear, according to your definition.
If the presence of black families actually decreased property values and they personally had absolutely no issue with black people then no, they by definition wouldn't be. They'd be assholes, however.
It is predicated upon the fact that premium already existed for one color. It was an attempt at equalizing said premium. That isn't racism.
Proponents of Affirmative Action and quotas believe it should be based on merit as well, but have studies they can point to rather easily that shows that applicants, be it for a job position or to a college, with the exact same credentials will see a negative response for having an "African" name. That means that it isn't based purely on merit, hence the quotas.
Again, I don't think they work, either for the underlying issue or for the stated purpose. But neither the intent nor the process is racist.
Ha, what makes you think Generic is a troll account?
I suppose you might have only recently seen my responses to SaintNow, come to think of it..
And the results were...conclusive? At the time he had been banning myself and quite a few other regulars right after a first comment, and then would justify it based on a set of rules. So I decided to make a new account, one who he wouldn't have the associations with, and stay strictly within those rules. Took something around 6 comments if I recall correctly before he banned me anyway.
This is absurd. While Christians may vote for a Christian, it is because of the morals Christians share. Women don't all believe in the same set of principles; there is no "Women's Bible".
"People judge people based on their race, gender, and religion AS WELL AS their political ideologies and policies. No matter what we do, people will always be biased." That has nothing to do with the ethics of this question.
Also, just because they're white, male, and Christian does not discredit them, as you seem to think it does, which I can assume is because you're a bigoted progressive. The Republican party has conservative values... Christian values.
And don't just omit people like Herman Cain, who was close to winning the nomination. Carson, at one point a front runner, is black. Bobby Jindal... the list goes on.
"This is absurd. While Christians may vote for a Christian, it is because of the morals Christians share. Women don't all believe in the same set of principles; there is no "Women's Bible"."
But when it comes to gender politics it is not about a set of principles, it's usually about being represented properly and the issues that affect women. Consider how our nation went to war with Great Britain because our interests were not represented in Parliament. In the entire history of the U.S. there has never been a female president? Even now more than half of the candidates are men? Yet, these are the same people who are going to effect women's lives through policy.
And this extends far beyond putting a few women in positions of power, but also having male candidates that understand the issues that matter to women. Regardless your position on feminism, women's rights, and inequality based on gender, the reality is that there is a population of women that think the U.S. treat women unjustly in certain cases. i.e. abortion laws, where some women feel like they should have the right to choose. Or income inequality (I am not saying income inequality exists, I am saying that some people view it as an issue). Thus gender politics become important.
Even on the GOP side you have women candidates who must play a certain gender role. In fact, when you mix in family values, you have to talk about a woman's role in the family. When you mix in Christianity, you have to talk about what Christians view as the role of a woman. And that's where gender politics come into play.
And I have no doubt you can be a woman or minority and gain the fancy of the GOP, that's not what we are debating. Jindal, Carson, Cain, and Rubio all represent the reality that the right can be open to a person of color, but that doesn't mean there isn't race politics there. If you look at how conservatives present these candidates, its sometimes tokenism, or the candidate used to represent how minorities should act. Though in many cases, for most Republicans, they genuinely do like the candidate.
It is a matter of whether they should, you can't rewrite the proposition.
THIS IS ABOUT ETHICS.
The facile Liberal argument is "It doesn't work" or "This is how it is".
And of course, then they call people stupid.
Ben Carson at one point polled higher than Donald Trump. And you know what, he didn't even advertise himself as black. Because he has merit. Because he believes that he is qualified for better reasons.
I guess I'm stereotyping you, but then again, IT'S INEVITABLE.
It is a matter of whether they should, you can't rewrite the proposition.
I didn't rewrite it, I was criticizing it.
THIS IS ABOUT ETHICS.
It is and it isn't.
The facile Liberal argument is "It doesn't work" or "This is how it is".
I'm not a Liberal, so why don't you stick with what I actually say instead of partisan shtick.
And of course, then they call people stupid.
Except I didn't, I quite clearly quoted him. It was a joke.
Ben Carson at one point polled higher than Donald Trump. And you know what, he didn't even advertise himself as black. Because he has merit. Because he believes that he is qualified for better reasons.
And Ben Carson invalidates the sociological and socioeconomic conditions of racial groups across the entire country? Of course he polled higher; he was the Evangelical Candidate.
I guess I'm stereotyping you, but then again, IT'S INEVITABLE.
How, please do tell me, is this not a question of ethics?
The facile Liberal argument is "It doesn't work" or "This is how it is".
I'm not a Liberal, so why don't you stick with what I actually say instead of partisan shtick.
The question specified parties. And people acutally say partisan shtick, and you have.
And of course, then they call people stupid.
Except I didn't, I quite clearly quoted him. It was a joke.
I don't think your insult was in jest.
And Ben Carson invalidates the sociological and socioeconomic conditions of racial groups across the entire country?
You clearly don't understand the idea of individuals. I'm saying your narrative is not entirely accurate.
Of course he polled higher; he was the Evangelical Candidate.
And now he's polling at 8%. Has he ceased to be an evangelical? Has some new candidate joined the stage? Or maybe... people have made decisions based on something else.
I guess I'm stereotyping you, but then again, IT'S INEVITABLE.
Not sure you know what stereotyping is..
You said I stereotyped you as a liberal, but then say I didn't stereotype you. Make up your mind!
First, use "'s or double 's to indicate quotes. Just makes it easier.
How, please do tell me, is this not a question of ethics?
Because it is also a discussion about how we as a species categorize others based on distinguishing characteristics. Part of this discussion is ethics, the other is sociology.
The question specified parties. And people acutally say partisan shtick, and you have.
"Liberal" isn't a party. Out of curiosity, what "partisan shtick" have I said? Would be kinda hard considering I'm not a Democrat or Republican, but I'm curious what you will point to.
I don't think your insult was in jest.
I don't think you know enough about me to make that judgement. Did you read the prompt? He was the one who used the exact phrasing that I employed. I have a history of using his phrasing in responses to him (him being HighFalutin).
You clearly don't understand the idea of individuals. I'm saying your narrative is not entirely accurate.
Again, you are saying my sociological* narrative is not entirely accurate based on an individual. That's like saying that our country's decreasing social mobility is not entirely accurate because of Bill Gates. An exception does not undermine or invalidate a statistical trend.
And now he's polling at 8%. Has he ceased to be an evangelical? Has some new candidate joined the stage? Or maybe... people have made decisions based on something else.
Ted Cruz picked up the Evangelical vote. Have you not been following presidential politics much?
You said I stereotyped you as a liberal, but then say I didn't stereotype you. Make up your mind!
What? No I didn't. I made no claim about you stereotyping me initially. You claimed I was a liberal, I said I wasn't. No sterotype involved there.
Ironically, Rupert Murdoch stated that Carson would be a "real black president". I mean what is this, if not playing race politics? Its inevitable that when you have Black candidates on either side, and when you have female candidates, the question always become: Is this person the best candidate for representing (insert group here) issues? In a society where you have a diverse group of people, there will always be some form of stereotyping and generalizing. From those things come misunderstanding. And from misunderstanding comes division.
Your position on this seems to be a rather odd one. You recognize that gender, race, and class exist, yet you seem to think any appeal to any of those leading someone to have a different life is fallacious.
Not sure how you can both recognize those characteristics exist, whilst simultaneously decrying people recognizing that they exist.
All candidates for a vacant position should be judged exclusively on their merit and,if applicable, past employment history. Race and gender should play no part whatsoever in the decision making process. That rule of course flies out the window if you're a white applicant seeking employment in any of the black African countries or a female job seeker in any Muslim country. White job applicants in Africa run a good chance of being machete'd to death and a female applying for a position in a Muslim country would undoubtedly be stoned to death.
So even though statistics show that different races and genders vote differently on issues, those characteristics, (which again do have a clear and demonstrable impact on voting trends) shouldn't be taken into account?
So if we aren't allowed to vote based on which way politicians will most likely lean on issues, what are we allowed to vote based on?
You misuse of that statistic would be like me saying, "Because blacks commit more crimes than the average white, then we should assume blacks are criminals."
That response makes absolutely no sense as a response to what I said. My argument did not require people of shared characteristics to have identical opinions.
Do you think race and gender should be considered when voting?
Well, let's put it this way:
Should a white male who professes to hate blacks and women get the white vote?
No! Because this person is racist, and racism is bad.
But should black male who professes to hate whites and women get the black vote?
Still no.
Showing preferential treatment to those like you means that you are bigoted, and encouraging doing so contributes to polarization.
On a large scale, we might make a mistake appointing an executive who isn't worthy. On a smaller scale, people may feel that their race is the deciding factor in their lot in life, negating their accomplishments, or making them unnecessary.
We need to put qualities of substance first. Unless we're appointing a 'Representative of Black People," we shouldn't show any bias towards a black candidate. Insert any group. But just don't group people!
You are mistakenly assuming these biases occur overtly, but they don't.
It isn't that people generally vote for someone because of race or gender in spite of negative characteristics. It's that people often attribute positive characteristics more often to people with like characteristics. For example, many men will see other men as more worthy of a position compared to a woman with the same qualifications. The same goes for race. Studies have shown this does happen. That isn't really in question.
The question is whether or not we are going to acknowledge that it happens and recognize that we should try to do something about it.
Or we could ignore it, let the problem continue to fester, and demonize those who recognize it. The first will get us somewhere, the second wont.
The Progressives who told us all we should have a Black president, are COMPLETE PHONEYS AND LIARS because when the candidate is a Conservative Black man, they say no way, we don't need that kind of a Black President.
When Progressives tell us all we should have a woman president, they as always are complete phoneys and liars because if you are a Conservative woman, they will say no way, we don't need that kind of woman as president.
Look what Feminists and Democrats did to Sarah Palin. They crucified her because she was a Conservative, but they have no problem with Hillary, a proven liar and corrupt politician deserving of an indictment.
The double standard and hypocrisy is mind blowing.
The Progressives who told us all we should have a Black president, are COMPLETE PHONEYS AND LIARS because when the candidate is a Conservative Black man, they say no way, we don't need that kind of a Black President.
Who said that?
When Progressives tell us all we should have a woman president, they as always are complete phoneys and liars because if you are a Conservative woman, they will say no way, we don't need that kind of woman as president.
Who said that?
Look what Feminists and Democrats did to Sarah Palin. They crucified her because she was a Conservative, but they have no problem with Hillary, a proven liar and corrupt politician deserving of an indictment.
They crucified her because she was a corrupt politician who used her powers to enact personal vengeance, lied consistently, and was thoroughly unqualified to hold a conversation about foreign policy over coffee, let alone the office of the Vice Presidency. Did some attacks get sexist and vulgar? Yes, and they were unjustified and unacceptable. But some attacks on Hillary have been sexist and vulgar as well.
The double standard and hypocrisy is mind blowing.
But seeing as how the Right did not want "Obama's kind of a Black President", and the Right does not want "Hillary's kind of a woman as president", then that means, by your logic, that you are adhering to that very same double standard.
Nice try, but as usual, you fall way short. It is the left, not the right, that makes color and gender a criteria when deciding to endorse, or condemn a candidate to begin with.
Repeating it over and over doesn't make it a fact. The behavior you are referring to transcends party lines, regardless of your burning desire to adhere to partisan lines.
The only party that endorses openly and proudly racism and sexism is Democrat. NOW and other feminist groups are liberal. NAACP, Black Caucus et. al. are solely Democrat. Reality is a scary thing, isn't it IAS?
The only party that endorses openly and proudly racism and sexism is Democrat.
Can you provide an example of the Democratic Party "proudly" endorsing racism and sexism?
The only party that endorses openly and proudly racism and sexism is Democrat.
Oh now I think I get it. You are one of those people who thinks that any organization founded upon the betterment of a disenfranchised group is racist (or sexist), right?
No, I am one of those "persons" who calls it like it is, period. You are the one who is telling people not to believe their lying eyes, believe what your telling them. The left is notorious for that. I trust me and my eyes, not the words of liberal demagogues.
I've already given several; go back and reread. Additionally, Hillary is claiming it's time for a woman to be in the WH. Madeline Albright said there is a place in hell for women who don't support women.
I just went and reread your comments on this thread and I see zero specific instances you mentioned.
As for Hillary and Madeline, neither of those indicate sexism. The first is true, it is about time that a woman got elected. That doesn't mean that people should vote for Hillary. I certainly won't. For the second it's hyperbolic, sure, but not sexist.
Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, the Black Panthers and then Hillary keeps saying it's time for a women to be in the WH. Madeline Albright said there's a place in hell for women who don't support women. That's about as blatant as it get. But, you already know they engage in this behavior, don't you? Of course you do.
I already explained how the Hillary and Albright statements aren't sexist. You haven't presented an argument as to how they are, you just said "it's blatant". If it is blatant, you shouldn't have difficulty making an argument for it.
Your idea that equalizing privilege is racist, or simply acknowledging historical importance of events is racist, not only is illogical, but goes against the very definition of the word you are trying to use.
Everything I've shown you is self-explanatory and true, if you want to be obtuse and obfuscate, be my guest. Anyone who can read and watch the news knows what I say is unimpeachable.
I'm not going to keep getting into debates with you because you say so many deceptive things, or distort the facts, or simply twist the facts.
I will give you just one example of what I am saying from this post.
You said......"But seeing as how the Right did not want "Obama's kind of a Black President", and the Right does not want "Hillary's kind of a woman as president", then that means, by your logic, that you are adhering to that very same double standard."
Now to the low end voter that knows little of what both parties stand for, that sounded good. But to knowledgeble people, we know that the GOP has NEVER supported picking a president because of the color of their skin, or gender. The Right did not want Obama because he is an extremist Liberal. The same for Hillary.
Democrats talk about electing the first black man or the first women which is never the reason to elect a President of this nation. But you have to be the right kind of black man or woman.
These are the types of deceptive statements you constantly make & I am starting to wonder if you are just too young or naive to understand politics. Then I think you are just being deceptive and simply say things to try and make my argument look bad.
I will not waste my time constantly showing how wrong or deceptive your posts are.
When I get into debates with you, I spend all my time refuting the deceptive remarks you continually make.
Now to the low end voter that knows little of what both parties stand for, that sounded good. But to knowledgeble people, we know that the GOP has NEVER supported picking a president because of the color of their skin, or gender. The Right did not want Obama because he is an extremist Liberal. The same for Hillary.
Except in ideological terms they aren't extremist, and the Left clearly didn't want to simply elect Obama because he was black. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a primary, let alone a contested one.
Democrats talk about electing the first black man or the first women which is never the reason to elect a President of this nation. But you have to be the right kind of black man or woman.
I haven't heard a single person on the Left say that they want Hillary elected just so she is the first female president. Yes, the Left talks about how historically and socially significant the first black president was or the first female president will be. That doesn't mean they think that is the reason to vote for a person. Additionally, the person currently leading the "extreme" part of the Democratic Party is an old white Jewish man. Doesn't fit into your narrative about the left.
These are the types of deceptive statements you constantly make & I am starting to wonder if you are just too young or naive to understand politics. Then I think you are just being deceptive and simply say things to try and make my argument look bad.
First, there was nothing deceptive about them. You really don't know what that word means, because it isn't synonymous with "Anything you disagree with". Second, I assure you I am neither too young or too naive. Someone who still clings to one of the horribly corrupt political parties and pushes the partisan divide really has no legitimacy speaking about naivete.
I will not waste my time constantly showing how wrong or deceptive your posts are.
You haven't ever managed to before, so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.
When I get into debates with you, I spend all my time refuting the deceptive remarks you continually make.
You've never gotten into a debate with me. You make a claim, I respond with an argument, and you start declaring everything under the sun a lie or deception. That's not debating.
Did you notice how Highfalutin said the same exact thing to you? Funny how everyone who knows anything about politics understand how the GOP uses no race or gender excuses to elect someone. But that did not stop you from being deceptive and spouting that lie.
Most everyone who debates you say the same things about how you debate.
Gee it's not just me as you keep saying. IT'S YOU!
Did you notice how Highfalutin said the same exact thing to you? Funny how everyone who knows anything about politics understand how the GOP uses no race or gender excuses to elect someone. But that did not stop you from being deceptive and spouting that lie.
Wait, so you and HighFalutin are the only people who know anything about politics, yet neither of you are able to use actual examples and evidence to provide your claims. Fascinating. Especially considering my degree in Political Science and my ability to actually provide evidence to substantiate my claims.
Most everyone who debates you say the same things about how you debate.
Can you point to literally anyone other than you and HighFalutin who have? Or Saintsnow, because he says that to literally everyone.
Gee it's not just me as you keep saying. IT'S YOU!
I'll direct you to Cartman's most recent response to you.
You really do think any disagreement is deception, don't you?
His statement was honest and clear. You have no idea what it is. But you automatically assume that because he disagrees with you, it must be deception.
Life must be so much easier when you close your mind to everything.
Because I don't know it's true. FromWithin really is the only person on this website that I can recall ever accusing me of being "deceptive", and he has a propensity to pull that whenever someone disagrees with him.
He even has done it with people on the Right, such as DaveR.
See, this is what I get when I realize the account I forgot the information for was actually logged into Firefox the whole time when I think I'm on Chrome.