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11
11
Yes No
Debate Score:22
Arguments:40
Total Votes:22
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 Yes (9)
 
 No (11)

Debate Creator

Dermot(5736) pic



Religion encourages good people to do bad things

β€œWith or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.” 
― Steven Weinberg

Yes

Side Score: 11
VS.

No

Side Score: 11
2 points

One of my favorite quotes. You need go no farther than right here on CD to see good "God fearing" people that go bad ... even NASTY! Christians that tell people to go to hell, religious people who want to kill Muslims (Why did "God" make them if he didn't want them here)?? HE said, (allegedly), "Thou shalt not Kill", but, they relish the thought. The other sayings are: " Religion causes us to hate others that we wouldn't normally hate." and: Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man." (Thomas Paine) AND: "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious conviction." (Blaise Pascal). Obviously, many people have noticed this phenomenon.

Side: Yes
2 points

I agree , what really amazes me on here is the amount of naked hatred by mainly and sadly mostly Americans followers of the ' good Shepard '.

I have never come across such a rabid mob of hypocritical so called Christians , I have debated fiercely with Muslims over the Quran and in comparison they are like ' gentle lambs ' compared to American theists .

Thankfully it's the marvellous youth of America who slowly but surely over the years rejecting the nonsense that's foisted on them .

Over here a once devoutly catholic country thankfully most people couldn't give a f ..k what religion anyone was , I lived in LA many years ago and never heard any of this religious bullshit , an American friend told me take a trip to the Bible Belt if you want to see what religion does to people .

I read recently that Americans are on an even par ranking with Saudi Arabia and Turkey in the rejection of Evolution ; i detest most religions ( not most the people )because it's regressive and divisive by nature .

The biggest world threat at the moment is not radical Muslims but American fundies who are like a mob of hate filled individuals supported by people like Mike Pence who doesn't believe in Evolution , global warming and famously said ' smoking is not bad for people '

Trump is now a fucking bible fan πŸ™€ Last year he famously said his favouite bible quote was ' do not bend to envy ' researchers still looking for that one πŸ˜‚

Thanks for some great quotes πŸ‘Œ

Side: Yes

Yes, when "good" people are unreasonable, something like religion can easily pull their strings.

Side: Yes
1 point

The debate should have the word "some" in it. Some people are encouraged to do bad things. And that indeed is true. Religion encourages judgments, punishments, behavior restrictions, and behavior mandates. And it promises whatever is done in this world isn't as important as what happens in the next one. These are reasons some people do bad things because of it.

Side: Yes
Dermot(5736) Clarified
1 point

The reason I didn't put some in is because in the case of a religion let's say Islam , homosexuality is not seen as bad by some but by the majority ; the same was true of the Catholic Church here when I was a kid everyone involved with the church condemned homosexuality , to do otherwise was not heard of .

Side: Yes
Grenache(6053) Clarified
1 point

Fair enough.

It's complicated, because there are still so many in the world, if not a majority, whom hold religious views and do primarily good things based on those views. Yet, they're eclipsed whenever a religious nut gets violent or gets all up in the business of other people who are different than they are.

Side: Yes
1 point

Is a good person that does bad things still a good person?

If a person does severe harm with the goal of avoiding punishment or attaining an ultimate benefit, can they be said to be anything other than a coward or the worste kind of greedy?

Good people that do bad things are not good people, regardless of their reason.

On the other hand, the same fear of punishment that lies behind the religious coward can encourage the otherwise bad person to refrain from bad deeds.

Side: No
Dermot(5736) Clarified
1 point

A good question ... Is a good person that does bad things still a good person?

As in a person claiming to be religious the individual will indeed think they are a good person because they are following what they think are god given instructions .

You say ... good people that do bad things are not good people , regardless of their reason ...

The problem with that is that the religious ( as in my heading ) would virtually see themselves as paragons of virtue whilst inflicting harm and misery on others ; while you and I would see their actions as appaling .

Yes your last point is fair enough , I personally see religions as a poison and a breeding ground for ignorance .

Side: Yes
AlofRI(3294) Clarified
1 point

A good person that makes a bad or serious mistake is STILL a good person. I've done that and I still think I'm a good person ... of course that is a prejudiced opinion, as any of YOURS (meaning some on CD), would be ;-), because no one really KNOWS me. I have to be extra careful because I have only myself to ask for forgiveness, and I'm a BAD person to ask! When I do a bad thing, sometimes, I hate me! ;-(

Side: Yes
Amarel(5669) Clarified
2 points

A good person that does A bad thing may still be a good person (depending on the nature of the act), but a good person does not make a habit of bad deeds. Just as a collection of sand grains eventually becomes a pile, a collection of bad deeds eventually forms a bad person. Most people feel that they are good people regardless of the quality/quantity of their deeds.

Regardless, when people do terrible things for "good " religious reasons, they are bad people. Deeds are judged with more weight than intentions, which pave a path somewhere.

Side: Yes
1 point

I disagree. If good people have it in their mind to do bad, they are perfectly capable of doing it without religion. Religion is a helluva scapegoat though.

Side: No
Dermot(5736) Clarified
2 points

Yes that's true Mint but they know what they're doing is wrong mostly ; religion excuses them from any guilt associated in hurting others in a lot of different ways , so that feeling of guilt or shame would not be present .

What do you think ?

Side: Yes
Mint_tea(4641) Clarified
1 point

I think a lot of people believe it will excuse them from the guilt, but in doing so they bastardize the teachings of Jesus. In practicing religion, one must always hold themselves to a different standard, not above but below. Wash the feet of the beggars if you know what I mean. And a lot of people don't want to do that.

I think religion is very much an excuse for people to behave badly because they want to be on a pedestal, looking down on others because they "believe" they will be saved. But I don't believe that's a flaw in religion or that it encourages bad action/behavior. It's just a tool, the wielder already has bad in their hearts and looks for excuses, and religion is nearly always front and center as their go to.

Side: Yes
1 point

No such thing as good people or bad things, for a start.

Further, people adopt whatever perspectives their dispositions and experience compel them to adopt. The same goes for the actions they engage in. The mere existence of a religious idea or doctrine isn't sufficient on its own to induce anyone to "bad" acts. That person must be disposed (a) to adopts the religious belief(s) in question, and (b) act upon them. Should both be fulfilled that suggests some a priori motive to the religiously associated action.

Presuming even that religion did make "good" people do "bad" things, then that would hardly be unique to religion. It would be a consequence of its operating as an ideology, which secular perspectives do just as assuredly. "Bad" things have been done in more than the name of just religion...

Side: No
Dermot(5736) Clarified
1 point

You say .....Presuming even that religion did make "good" people do "bad" things, then that would hardly be unique to religion.....

Yes , it's hardly unique to religion and nothing ' makes ' someone do anything , they are convinced or not by the pronouncements made by their religious leaders which they are told are god given pronouncements and right and fitting .

I don't think it's a presumption to say religion encourages good people to do bad things , I think it's a fact .

Side: Yes
Jace(5222) Clarified
1 point

Whether they are convinced is down to their dispositions and previous experience. As is the role of the religious leaders. I'm a hard determinist, and religion like all ideology strikes me as more an artifact than a strong determinant. Everything is a presumption, but if you want to call this particular one a fact that's fine by me for the sake of discussion. As I said, if we take that as given it's a fairly non-unique observation that holds true for ideology generally. I don't see much cause to single out religion from the pack, really.

Side: Yes
1 point

I think these kinds of issues should have a third option -Dead-point- well, one the one hand, We must bear in mind that some people do what the bible says literally -The Bible speaks metaphorically, and a study is needed to interpret it-. For that reason, some people often misinterpret these scriptures by doing BAD THINGS that they think are right because it is in the bible. BUT, one the other hand. Actually, The Religion is not the culprit but the church because it motivates us to act in a certain way and accept what they say is right, when some things are not.

For example, discrimination against homosexuals, or simply telling them that 'if you are gay, you will go to hell'

Side: No
1 point

I have seen that quote and it is pretty stupid. Ideologies can motivate people yes, that includes religion but also political ideologies as well. The fact is people naturally have evil tendencies, if they didn't they wouldn't be inclined to do evil. If you don't think people are naturally evil spend some time witha group of young children..Unless they have had really good discipline early on, they will know nothing but selfishness.

Side: No