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Religious Freedom's Ugly Side
A waiter in Boise, Idaho was humiliated by a supposedly friendly middle-aged couple when he picked up the receipt and found the word, "Straight," written on it along with a fire and brimstone pamphlet. The waiter said he never mentioned that he was Gay to these customers but they judged him to be so.
Question: Does Religious Freedom give religious fanatics the right to taunt people whom they judge to be sinful?
The whole point about freedoms, religious and speech for instance, is that they are inviolable rights however there will always be consequences in the use of that right.
For example in slander and libel and no one has the right to impose their beliefs upon others Simply having a thicker skin does not prevent or excuse people for their unwarranted or inappropriate behaviour towards others
Freedom of religion means freedom to believe as you will and to practice your beliefs until such a point as that practice infringes upon the rights of others. Not only does an expression of judgement not violate any tangible right of another person, but it is covered by the freedom of speech. If one is to suggest that we ought to censor religious expression, however offensive we personally find it, then one must accept that their own freedom of expression might be similarly constrained.
Personally, I find it preposterous to sacrifice our freedoms in the name of our emotional sensibilities... particularly when we could just grow a backbone and care less what others think about us instead.
Unfortunately they do have the right of voice even if harsh.
But it's the same of every belief from the atheist to the Muslim, from the Black Lives Matter to White supremacist, from the "Christian" to LGBT. There is a boundary for each of these, and that boundary isn't offense to their voice or their rights. The boundary is when the other voice is silenced because of the other voices.
The boundary is the rights of others, and the safety of the voice of others. Religious freedom is like debate, your encouraged to debate because debate challenges your thoughts, helps you understand something bigger than the box you have for your little part in the world, it is a platform that gives a voice to views and opinions, and tolerance to conversation and debate is needed in every area of civilized reasoning.
Religious Freedom is your belief, atheist to the Christian.
No government should be allowed to silence who we are and what we believe, they should simply mediate negotiations for the best outcome and for the good of all.
I don't know the details of this encounter, I do know the lack of tolerance has become greater toward faith, and offense is the rule to silence 1 belief over 1 nonbelief.
And that's basically the foundation of Communism. Not the freedom of American values
Do you live another day? Is the brush against offense crippling?
Bullying is crippling, if every someone takes your lunch money and threatens you, are is a Conrad drip undermining your choices, or your looks, or size then there is supportive channels to pursue in curing that. And if it's hostile to the point of harassment, true harassment - Not just a brush against offense then there are even legal channels to pursue.
But what if the Christian just told you something, and you walked away dismissing their view. Isn't that simply respecting anothers view. Does it have to be a crime to converse?
I agree that people have the right to religious freedom because of its importance to society. While it may have caused a lot of hate groups to form against other religions or races, the origin and core beliefs of religions are quite good and beautiful. It's not that people's religious freedoms should be changed, but rather how people are exercising their religious beliefs. People have the right to have religious freedoms as long as no harm is being put on other people physically or mentally. Homophobia among religions may be a counter argument to religious freedom;however, religion itself wasn't founded on hatred toward homosexuals but rather created over time. I agree, there should be a bit of censorship placed on religions, but i disagree that people shouldn't, at all, have the right to religious freedom.
I get your point I think, I agree that not all religious values should be a right of expression. The boundary is the law to protect the rights of all. And that alone should be it's filter.
Otherwise it's subjective to whoever is in charge of defining our freedom. That being said we are American citizens and our rights as citizens should be protected first, and religions that promote violence should be stopped at the door, as we fix what we have in our midst. And if your belief promotes violence, then you self direct scrutiny of your beliefs.
Although this story does not state that these people were judging religiously or, indeed, were religious at all, I think judging from a religious point of view is wrong.
People have the right to be who they are and not be suppressed by anyone, let alone religious people against homosexuality. Obviously, however, religious people should have the same rights to adhere to their religion's principles and philosophies, but this does not give them the right to impose their principles on others.
It is now fact, through research, that homosexuality is not a choice but that you are born with the disposition. It is not up to a religious person, who has the choice to be a follower of a religion, to say that a homosexual is 'sinful'. Also, the fellow as the waiter wasn't 'imposing' his homosexuality upon the couple dining, yet they think it is acceptable to judge him and say that he is wrong? What a way to disrespect someone who is for one, serving you and two, not causing any grief towards them.
Lastly, and personally, I think that some religions (no generalisation) do have a particularly intolerant outlook on many people, cultures and policies, which we, as a society, have the right to criticise.
This is not oppression, and to suggest as much is not only absurd but diminishes the meaning of the word in reference to actual oppression. One is not oppressed simply because someone has judged them poorly; people judge other people all of the time, for secular reasons as well as religious ones. Also, an expression of judgement in no way imposes any beliefs onto anyone. Was the couple rude? Certainly. Oppressive? Hardly. I would politely but firmly suggest that some people need to grow greater self-confidence and invest less in the opinion of strangers.
What research actually shows is that homosexuality is a genetic disposition that may become active if someone is exposed to certain stimuli over the course of their life. Not that the source of homosexuality is particularly relevant anyways.
Upon what basis do you suggest that any religion is more intolerant than others? To my knowledge, there is simply no evidence to support your claim and I suspect it has more to do with your own biases against particular religions than with actual proof.
Hogwash...more homosexual propaganda. This kind of research ignores family dynamics where children have unbalanced relationships with their parents and identify their sexuality with a skewed understanding. They grow up getting confusing messages about their gender, and most of them get molested by perverts who hone in on their confusion to guide them with molestations like wild dogs honing in on an animal that is weak due to being ill.
I'll give you some credit for pointing out the OP's bias against Christianity. The Bible and Christians who believe the Bible are always the scapegoats when sodomite-pervs feel bad about themselves or get hurt in any way. "It's Christians' faults for not helping us to feel good about the way we are" and stupid crybaby stuff like that....now they are getting more and more laws behind them and Christians will be going to jail more and more.
We've killed enough babies to equal the population of 25 US states (yes, lower population states, but 25 together for crying out loud) and now we've legitimized sodomite unions and perverted the meaning of marriage so "marriage" is no longer the sacred thing God made it for....America will fall under God's judgement into fascism or communism or Islam or worse before long....it's obvious God is warning America of impending judgement if she doesn't quit calling evil good, and good evil.
You need to take a reality pill. Maybe you use multiple names and multiple accounts, I do not. I don't even know how unless I went to the library and set up a different account on a different computer...what's the point? I would say the same things I say as "Saintnow."
First off, I didn't say 'oppression', I said 'suppression'. They are quite different.
The reason I said 'suppression' is because the couple who left the scornful message were essentially saying that they don't like the fact that the waiter was, or 'seemed', homosexual. This, for the waiter, isn't particularly nice and he feels as though the fact that he is a homosexual is a bad thing.
Secondly, in response to 'people judge people all of the time', I agree. People do judge people, that is true and part of our nature to do so, just because they are different to ourselves. However, I think it is unacceptable to vocalise it in ways like this couple did, and also saying that someone should have 'greater self-confidence' does not mean that they should be able to handle the flak from rude and intolerant people. I'm sure the waiter is confident enough anyway with his homosexuality by the way he dealt with the insult the way he did, along with the growth of tolerance towards homosexuals in a civilised world.
Thirdly, how can you suggest that there is no evidence for intolerance in certain religions? By definition, Evangelical Christians, Muslims, Roman Catholics and I'm sure some other extras have a particularly bitter view on homosexuality.
From your rather naive statement, I presume that you have never read the quotes from 'Leviticus' that prohibit homosexuality - 'If anyone does any of these abominations, those who do them will be cut off from the midst of their people' - and punish it - 'If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.' Let me just iterate that it says this in THE BIBLE, which some people still hold so very dear to them.
I am not biased against any religion, I just look at the evidence.
Thank you for the response and I would enjoy another dispute with you another time :)
They are nominally different at most, and not infrequently treated as synonyms. The semantic distinction does not alter my points whatsoever, and you will find that if you simply substitute "suppression" where I wrote "oppression" my arguments still stand. Quite simply, one is not suppressed because they have their feelings hurt.
I never said it was appropriate for the couple to vocally judge another person. I only observed that being uncivil does not constitute suppression. Crying suppression when it does not exist is a crude substitute for learning to deal with the simple reality hat sometimes people are rude. I disagree that people should not learn to handle others' judgement, not the least because failing to do so gives them power over you that they otherwise do not have.
I think that religion is generally more intolerant than its absence, and I never suggested otherwise. What I did say was that there is nothing substantive to prove that any particular religion is more intolerant on average than others. Every religion can be construed to justify prejudice, and every religion has its extremists.
I assure you that I am quite familiar with Leviticus. I tend not to bring my own identities into the debate, but it seems relevant now to mention that I am myself queer and have personally experienced actual suppression and oppression in the name of Leviticus. I am not naive nor insensitive to the consequences judgement can have when acted upon, but I am not eager to censor freedom of expression just so I do not have to grow an emotional backbone.
You make very good points. However, I think 'having feelings hurt' is not quite the same in this situation. In any case, one should never have to be subjected to any prejudice or intolerance but my point is that prejudice is not the same as criticising. If the waiter wasn't doing anything to affect anyone, there is no reason to criticise him. The couple should be criticised for what they did, whether in the name of religion or not.
I agree with your points on the fact that 'people are just sometimes rude' and that 'being uncivil does not constitute suppression', however rudeness should not be allowed right by religion.
I never said that any other religion was more intolerant than another, I merely stated that there is clearly intolerance in religion, which I proceeded to back up with Leviticus. I agree that religions have their extremists and I think that, whether being directly influenced by their religion or any other means, they should not be able to justify their actions, if unlawful, with their religion.
I am sorry to hear that you yourself have been subject to intolerance and I do hope, and they clearly are, that society's ways will change. I think that freedom of speech is a very important part of western society, but whether that gives the right to offend is another debate.
What other harm was created beyond feeling emotionally offended in this scenario? I think that is arguably the only legitimate harm, and it is not so egregious as to warrant censorship even if we think it should be discouraged.
If we permit rudeness under other circumstances than I can see no basis for not permitting it when it is compelled by religious belief. Baseless and rude criticism is no more harmful when it comes from a religious origin than otherwise.
You did say that some religions are more intolerant than others: "Lastly, and personally, I think that some religions (no generalisation) do have a particularly intolerant outlook [...]." You explicitly qualified your statement as being non-generalized and indicated you were only speaking to some religions as being especially intolerant.
I seriously doubt that there is much debate to be had as to whether we ought actually to endorse censorship to keep people from being offended. That is not only a grossly unwarranted violation of the freedom of expression, but a dangerous slippery-slope that could be (and has been) easily abused.
oh boo hoo for the waiter. People who don't know me have accused me of being a homo pervert...I don't know why. I'm not going to cry about it, but since you feel the waiters pain, boo hoo for both of you.
Hogwash! For the waiter to have handled the incident professionally, he should have just put the note in his pocket and not turned it into he own personal ad campaign. If he was being professional in his response, he would have said nothing about it. He's just being a big cry baby, very unprofessional.
If he was professional about it, we would not be talking about it and I would not be calling him a whiny cry baby.
Hogwash. Pervert molest boys and the boys grow up confused about their sexuality and are exploited by more experienced homos perverts. 90 percent will admit to being molested as children. They were not born as perverts.
Feel free to present any evidence whatsoever for your baseless claim. Should you respond to this post and fail to do so, it is a fair conclusion that you have no such evidence and I will not bother to reply further.
First, you could ask the sodomite perverts yourself but it takes a while to get them to trust you enough to tell the truth. Use your brain, it's not hard to figure out...they were not born that way, they grew up in bad family situations and/or got molested so they "came out" to be confused about their sexuality.
They go to great lengths to cover up the plain simple truth, they work hard to tell you they are normal and make you bend over for them because that is easier than being honest about their confusion and seeking help to get the pervert knots of their soul untied.
Thank you. When you know the truth, you do your best to speak it always. Jesus Christ is the Truth....the way, the truth, and the life; there is no other.
And you will tell me that you grew up with good role models, good parenting? If it's true that you were never molested, then you initiated the molestations with others of your own gender, didn't you? Or did you find somebody who felt a mutual desire to molest each other with you? A homosexual is a molester, and is molested, if they are giving in sexually to their confusion about their gender.
You don't have to be a pervert. You can keep yourself pure from now until you die, or from now until you marry (the merging of a man and woman as one flesh). If you want to pervert your sexuality, that is your choice, you are a molester agreeing to be molested....a mutual agreement to enjoy molesting and being molested is not normal, it's sick. You are legally allowed to be a sicko today, but you sure will not be allowed to touch my children in any way.
"gay" means "happy". You sound like you are angry and miserable. Sodomites and women who abuse their bodies with women tend to be dishonest in speech, and ugly in manners.
What I do with my body and do with the body of another consenting person of a legal age is none of your concern, you mentally ill c_nt with an imaginary friend named God.
Oh trust me, no tears will be shed on your little brats accounts. You can keep your nasty little buggers a wide berth from me. I can't even imagine how messed up they must be with a parent like you.
Even if my child consented to your perversion and enjoyed it with you, I would probably still be tempted to do you great bodily harm if you if I caught you doing it. You better be careful who you play with, pervert.
You better be careful who you play with, pervert. Even if your "partner" is consenting, somebody who truly loves that partner with no perversion of love or pleasure may not be able to stop themselves from ending your pleasures.
Religious freedom doesn't grant people the right to be rude to others. Freedom of speech DOES grant the right to be rude, insulting and judgmental to complete strangers. These cowardly people didn't even have the decency to address the waiter directly. If they truly intended to offer help or guidance to the waiter, they would not have simply left an insult and disappeared.
It's very sad, and a big problem with this country when Americans think that "Freedom of speech" gives them the "right" to be rude, insulting and judgmental. Back in the 60's an author published a book called "The Ugly American". It probably should be re-published. Today we have even UGLIER Americans. Ones who seem to have had no "upbringing" that included how to be a "mice" American. Today they hold people in high esteem when nastiness just rolls off their tongue, ... like Donald Trump. You may have the "right", but, what would Jesus say?? I'm an Atheist, but, I have the "right" to ask the question.
You'll note that DaveR clearly didn't support what they did from an ethical stand point, he just stated that they do have a legal right to take part in such behavior. We have the right to do many things that we simply shouldn't do for the sake of decency and respect, but stating that we do indeed have the right anyway isn't an endorsement of such behavior.
I would have to say that Donald Trump is epitomizing the current fad of the "I have the right to be rude, therefore I'm going to be" mentality.
My remarks weren't leveled at daver personally, just at the comment he made. I have no idea if that is his personal feeling, but the attitude he mentioned is FAR too prevalent today! Americans look like freedom abusing scum to much of the world, it's a shame.
From DaveR's post: "These cowardly people didn't even have the decency to address the waiter directly. If they truly intended to offer help or guidance to the waiter, they would not have simply left an insult and disappeared."
It is clear to me that the sentiment you are attacking, one that I truly feel is a problem in this country, is not one shared by DaveR. He simply prefaced his condemnation with the fact that what they did was legal and Constitutionally protected, then followed it up with a criticism of their actions.
So you must put all the Christians in jail because they believe the Bible which says it is abomination for a man to lie with a man as with a woman, or for a woman to forsake the natural use of the man and burn in her lust with another woman. If it is rude to tell the truth about something, then Christians must be jailed if not killed.
If the waiter was not a sodomite, what's the big deal? Boo hoo, somebody thought he seemed to have effeminate manners and needs help to be manly. ....wahhhhh wahhhh, it hurt his feelings...awwwww....kill the Christians and then we can all be happy in the city of Sodom.
I would agree that culling all christians would increase happiness, but that is besides the point.
I don't think that someone as immature and uneducated as you should be allowed on a sophisticated debating site like this. Why do you think it is true that homosexuals are abominations? Oh yeah, the bible. Why do you not see the 'big deal' in this situation? Just because you are an idiot, actually...
The big deal isn't whether the waiter was a homosexual or not, it's whether the rude, hateful and intolerant couple who were served by the waiter should be able to insult people in the first place.
I can see you feel the waiter's pain, and again I give a big boooo hoooo for you and the waiter. Tell me, did the waiter put a tip In your pocket you pervert supporter? You want one, don't you?
I feel that the waiter is being subjected to religious based prejudice. I do believe that homosexuals, not 'perverts', should have the same rights as any other person. As soon as you realise that other people aren't as bat-shit crazy as you, maybe you'll stop being such a twat.
Says who? It happens in nature. Homosexual sex is perfectly possible in human genetics, and it provides sexual pleasure; the same sexual pleasure that heterosexual sex provides. It is classified as a natural variation on human sexuality. The only key difference is pregnancy. And yet you don't attack those who are infertile.
Yes, I can explain why these things are unnatural. I can't do the same for homosexuality, which is why I asked you.
Pedophilia?
A child cannot consent, and, since they lack understanding and sexual development, they will almost certainly be taken advantage of in this situation.
Beastiality?
Again, an animal cannot consent, nor communicate effectively with a human. They would not understand, thus making the relationship non-consentual, and hurtful to one or both members involved. It is also unlikely both participants would be getting sexual pleasure from the experience.
Necromancy?
That's magic. It's not real.
.
Everything that is 'common sense' can be justified with logic. So, what's the logic behind homosexuality being unnatural?
Homosexuality is in nature. It's how humans have become homosexual in the first place. Stop being a c*nt and go back to wankinglover your shitey book with all your other intolerable, square, bible-spouting twatty friends. That's right, there's no point arguing with you anymore, so I am just going to have to resort to insults, seeming as though you are too stubborn to realise what an absolute dickhead you are.
The only thing homos can do to be more perverted is to sexually abuse animals or children, and I think we all know a large percentage of homos have done those things, and many of that percentage continue to do those things.
You are just talking absolute bollocks. A large percentage of homos that sexually abuse animals and children? You are a waste of breath and my characters.
I think you are either a homophobe, afraid to let the homos cram stuff down your throat and anywhere else they can cram it or you are a closet pervert bending over for them in secret.
I can't believe that you are calling me a homophobe when clearly you are the one to take the name. You probably had your local priests cramming their stuff down your throat as a child. It's probably the reason why you are such a hateful person. Do you even have any friends that can tolerate your behaviour, except your imaginary friend Jesus? I'm not gay, I just treat them like human beings, unlike you.
You are obviously a homophobe since you are both afraid to let a sodomite take pleasure in the orifices of your body, and you are afraid to say it is wrong for them to even THINK about doing it to you.
I'm not afraid to say no to them, and I'm not afraid to stand up and say they are PERVERTS!!!! Saying you have love for somebody while you refrain from telling them the truth is deceptive.
You are a homophobic liar, trying to fool people into believing you are kind. You are a hater, you hate me because I speak the truth about sodomy, and you hate God who is Jesus Christ who is the Truth. He died for your sins, paid the price for your messed up soul full of dirty deeds so that God could look at you as covered by His blood if you will repent and believe on His Son, believing that He is God who died for you and is risen from the dead by His own power, alive forevermore, and able to keep you in eternal life...... but I guess you prefer to trample His blood under your feet and dare God to prove it is Him who you will face on Judgment day when you will answer for your own sins before being forever cast away like garbage into the rubbish pit of Hell where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. I hope you get saved before it's too late and you see that what God says is true and cannot be denied.
God loves you and so do I...that's why I'm telling you the truth. God hates evil and so do I, that's why I'm telling you the truth.
Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, and the evil of your heart will be forever removed in Heaven where there will be no more pain, nor sorrow, nor dying, nor SODOMITES!!!!!
im not a homophobe just because I don't want to be a part in what they do sexually. I'm not a homophobe if a gay man wants to have sex with me even though I don't want to. I respect homosexuals for who they are, which is attracted to other males. It doesn't mean that I want to be homosexual or bummed by one, which you seem to have made the concept of.
How can you say I'm a homophobic liar? You clearly have a distaste and intolerance for gay people and then you lie by saying all the shite about Jesus and how he is the truth and died for my sins and all that bollocks. Stop lying to everyone else and yourself.
I'm going to tell you straight that I don't want to go to heaven, especially if people like you are going to end up there. You aren't telling me the truth just because it says so in a book written by some homophobic, sexist, maniacal dickheads in the desert who had the idea that they can hate on everyone they don't like through the medium of a deity that everyone should fear and then sugarcoat it with bollocks that makes it not seem as bad and then get a bunch of gullible twats, like yourself, to believe it and spread their prejudice through out the world. Stop lying, stop being a cunt and stop hating on everyone that isn't yourself.
Liar...you are a homophobe. That's why you support them but are afraid to let them fill the cavities of your body for their pleasures....by supporting them, you hope they don't feel the need to rape you in order to punish you for being afraid of them....so you pretend you are not afraid of them but the truth is that the though of them makes you put your little tail between your legs and piddle on your feet.
Them sodomite perverts don't scare me. All they can do is kill me and send me to heaven. I won't let them touch me, and I won't say their perversion is normal, good, or ok in any way because I'm not afraid of them.....You are afraid of them you homophobic punk.
If a sodomite homo pervert really believes on Jesus, they will stop being a sodmite homo pervert and live to be like Jesus...righteous....and they won't be homophobic punks like you.
Many sodomite homo perverts have repented and believed on Jesus and got saved and stopped being perverts. I know some of them personally, and there are thousands I don't know. Homophobes are afraid of them ( former sodomites who believed on Jesus and got saved out of being homo, homophobes are afraid of them more than they are afraid of homos who won't admit they are perverts) because they became honest in face of the truth about their sin and they are no longer afraid of homos like you are afraid of them.
I'm not a homophobe. Get it into your brain that I SUPPORT gay rights. Obviously, because I am straight, I don't want to be involved in homosexual acts. That doesn't mean I fear homosexuals. I don't know who you know but most of the gay people I know DON'T want to RAPE me to punish me for being afraid of them because I'm not afraid of them anyway and most gay people aren't rapists.
Again to reiterate, I'm not 'afraid' of gay people. You seem to be more fearful of them due to your dislike to them. They say that to deal with fear you slander, which is fitting in your case. Homosexuals are not perverts, they are just predisposed by nature to have their relations with the same sex. you can look it up that gays don't choose to be gay, it is in fact natural but I guess you won't die to your stubbornness.
Even if a gay person believes in Jesus they will still be gay. There are countless accounts of priests and bishops who com out gay, so stop lying to yourself.
Your last couple of lines make no sense and is just complete nonsense. I can't really respond to a dumb comment with intelligence so I'm just going to leave it here. You may think you beat me but in reality your statements are false, bias, anecdotal and without evidence so I respond with rational opposition, which you proceed to slander because it doesn't fit your skewed perception of the world.
I recommend you look through his comment history before you bother responding to him again, if for no other reason than to truly comprehend the futility of it. He has not come here to debate, or to hold a legitimate conversation. He has come here to yell at people and enact petulant power trips.
Once again, you prove you are a liar with your pants and icon on fire. No liars are allowed in Heaven, you need to get saved before you wake up in Hell.
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
Youre saved so youre okay with being a completely uneducated idiot? Fair enough but dont try to be anything youre not. It is embarrassing. In fact scratch that.. please continue trying it is very funny.
Last week I said "I accept Christ". Therefore I am as much as a Christian as you. You fatty moron doggy idiotic nasty faced punk. Oh and what is a billion again?
You must be born again or you are not a child of God. I suggest you read the gospel according to John, King James Bible. Saying "I accept Christ" does not make you a Christian. Repenting of your sin means totally renouncing your own way and ways as worthy of death and Hell, and to be saved the Savior must come in to you and give you a new life, His life, so you will be born of His Spirit as a new person. If this every happens to you, you will know me as a brother and you won't be cursing me and attacking me.
I have told you nothing but what the Bible says about your sin and how to be saved from Hell.
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away and all things are become new.
I know you are in your sin, not born of God's Spirit, not a child of God because you are the same old you you have always been. There is nothing new in you. Your idea of being a Christian in reality is not Christian. To be a Christian, you have to be born again. To be born again is an act of God which you cannot make happen by saying "I accept Christ". You have to receive Him in reality knowing God, knowing your unworthiness, knowing you deserve to burn in Hell and knowing you need to be saved, and knowing that only God can save you and Jesus is God the Savior who is risen from the dead. "I accept Christ" does not make you a Christian. Believing on Jesus and asking God in Jesus' name to save you from Hell will result in God saving you if you are being honest and real in your repentance, and if you believe on Jesus He becomes your life and you are changed forever.
If this ever happens with you, I'll know by the new Spirit which will be in you making you a child of God and knowing me as a brother and you won't be cussing me any more. I still think you are on your way to Hell, and you need to stop and think about your own need of salvation and how God sees your sin.......and in Jesus name as God to save you from Hell. If you really do that, you will stop cursing me. I doubt that you will ever do that so I'm leaving you in the dust. I read nothing more than "Last week I said "I accept Christ"....I can tell by the way you are saying that you have not changed and are the same old sinner you always have been and always will be if Jesus does not live in you
I don't need your harassment and I don't think I can help you. I've tried more than enough, I owe you nothing.
I am as much a Christian as you are. We both said we accepted Christ and then decide not to live at all by his rules and there is no sign of the holy spirit in each of us.
I know you are in your sin, not born of God's Spirit, not a child of God because you are the same old you you have always been. There is nothing new in you. Your idea of being a Christian in reality is not Christian. To be a Christian, you have to be born again. To be born again is an act of God which you cannot make happen by saying "I accept Christ". You have to receive Him in reality knowing God, knowing your unworthiness, knowing you deserve to burn in He
I shudder to think what a horrible person you were before you were born again.
If this ever happens with you, I'll know by the new Spirit which will be in you making you a child of God and knowing me as a brother and you won't be cussing me any more.
Yeha yeah yeah... you have no idea what the Holy Spirit is. Also I dont cuss you, you fatty moron doggy idiotic nasty faced punk, I just use the words you have used to insult people.
And you are a rude retarded obnoxious stupid fatty moron doggy idiotic bratty nasty faced dope headed foul mouthed punk fool hater fool witch. So I guess I am in good company.
Well of course, and I also realize that one account says you are female and the other says you are male, so you are either confused about your gender or you are purposely being deceitful......it is an abomination for a man to appear to be a woman, or vice versa. So until you consolidate your "gender expression\" honestly portraying what you really are be it a man or a woman, I will continue to point out this error in your manner and choice of being evasive about what God made you to be. Are you a man or a woman? You have never made this clear, and every time you switch genders you make yourself to be a liar. Of course, if that's the way you want to be then you need to deny God and believe in evolution because evolution requires no moral standard.
I think you are a woman since your not man enough to say you are a man if you are a man.......you really are messed up, aren't you? God can make it all better for you if you will trust Him, repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You're a pervert. You deny evidence of God because you know that if you acknowledge Him, you'll have to side with Him against your perversion. So much for your manners.
Men who dress as women are scary, you can say that again, and the same for women who dress as men....what are you? Whatever you are, you are scary, yep. God gave us brains to be leery of impostors.
Can you prove that you are real and not an illusion which appears to be you? If you are not a supernatural being in a natural body, then you are only an illusion and your life is worth no more than an old television which had been shot just to watch it explode. Can somebody change the channel please, I'm tired of the Fartman show.
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
"The debate is valid, I have offered validations of the fact that God loves you and I invite you to explain why you believe God does not love you. If this is too much of a challenge to be considered acceptable for this site, I would have to say it's a small-minded site, with all due respect."
So you believe God does not love you...that's too bad
You support gay rights while pretending to be not gay because you are a homophobe, afraid to bend over and let the sodomites enjoy your body because you know you will enjoy it and once you give your back, you won't go back. Don't be afraid of the sodomites, just join them and prove you are not afraid to be their friends for real.
You can take your favorite sodomite, the one you look up to most for his perversion, and I'm sure he will be glad to lead you to enjoy his perversion. If you say you are not a homophobe and you won't do it, you are a liar and a homophobe.
You only say you support sodomote rights because you really know they are doing wrong and you are afraid they will rape you if you try to resist them....and they very well may, it sounds like you are close to too many of them. They'll get you one day, you might as well just bend over and give in now you coward.
If you won't stand up and say they are doing wrong, what's wrong with them doing it to you? The only way you can truly prove you believe what they are doing is not wrong is to bend over and let them do it to you, you stinking homophobe. You are just afraid of them........punk homophobic liar.
You know I won't attack you physically for voicing your opinion, and you know they will attack you physically if you tell the truth to them the same as I'm telling it to you. They (some, many of them...not all) would attack me now for the things I am saying and I would not stop saying them no matter what. You are afraid of them. I am not. You are a homophobe. I speak the truth in love and am not afraid of the consequences of speaking the truth you punky homophobic liar.
I'm not sure whether you're trolling or genuinely a halfwit. I don't 'pretend' to not be gay, as I am straight. I'm not sure where you're getting your false claims but they are utter nonsense.
I know many gay people and they are nice people. They wouldn't 'lead me to enjoy their perversion' and I'm sure many gay people don't try to turn straight people into gay people because it won't work. I'm not a homophobe because I don't have an irrational aversion to homosexuality not because I don't want to be shagged by a gay man. I'm sure most straight men wouldn't.
I'm not going to stand up to say they're wrong because there is nothing wrong that they're doing. You may feel that way because you've been brainwashed to think that they are unnatural and sinful, when they are actually natural and doing what they're naturally doing.
I'm not afraid of them, I am just a tolerant person who respects what someone does. The only things I call wrong are things that cause grief and pain to someone or something. Do gay people cause you pain? No. Do gay people cause you grief? Possibly, but for the reason that you think they are an abomination.
Just because it says gay people are abominations in your book, doesn't mean it's fact. I could say that because a book says that fish are bad means that all fish should be banished from the sea. It just makes no sense.
I'm sure what you are, and it's not a thinker. You pretend to have the right to exist outside of Hell and are heading straight for it and trying to be gay while you do it. Gay means happy and I know you are happy enjoying your sin being gay as the grave is pulling you down and you can't pull yourself out of it. Be real, don't be gay like a fool. Admit you have sinned against God and He has the right to rule against you even to banish you to Hell forever. Believe on the resurrection of Jesus who is God who loves you so much He died in your place. Call on God, ask Him in the name of Jesus to save you from Hell.
Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved....but I guess you would rather say it's ok for a man to do you like he would do a woman, so you will remain in your sin, too proud to admit God is right and homos are wrong.
Can you stop chatting absolute drivel? I'm not 'trying' to be gay just because I think gay people should be treated with respect just as you would any other person. Gay does mean happy and I congratulate you on actually saying something factual, however I'm not happy because I am gay and therefore a sinner. I am happy because I love my life as I live it. You are probably an unhappy, lonely and callous person because of your 'loving God'.
Why don't you understand that not everyone thinks I'm the same, insane and narrow-minded way that you do? I can state with confidence that you are going to die a generally unhappy person by not living your life that you've got now instead of waiting for the one you have no idea whether you're going to get, which the only evidence for is in an ancient book.
Your not trying to think because you are assuming you have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell as a sinner and you think that's all you need to believe.
I can state with confidence that my sins are forgiven and I am going to heaven, God Himself became a man to pay for my sins with His own blood because He loved me so much that He took my place in death to save me from Hell. I can also state with confidence that you will be condemned forever to fry like an eternal sausage in Hell if you reject the fact that He did the same for you that He did for me.
Let me refer you to this musical performance of some of my fellow members in the Kingdom of Heaven.....they are singing the song that I am singing almost every time I wake up...before I know I'm breathing I am singing this song almost every day of my life.....I'm waking up singing almost every day full of joy knowing my sins are forgiven and I'm going to heaven when my time in this body of death is over....here it is, see if you can handle it.....
I think you are a closet queer and that is why you wrestle with this discussion; why you have to go on and on explaining and defending yourself. You are either a closet queer or you are a homophobe. You are either doing it or you are afraid to do it and afraid to say it's wrong to do...that's your phobia if you are not in reality a closet queer.
I'm explaining and defending myself because your comments are similar to those of a mental case, who sits in a cell by himself, eating flies. You can't have any idea what I am outside the internet because you don't know me, do you? So how can you instantly presume that I am, indeed, a 'closet queer' or a homophobe? I could say that I think you are a lonely little man, who preaches to God everyday, hates everyone, gets social anxiety because no one wants to ever be next to you. Correct yourself, before you try to correct anyone else.
You are explaining and defending yourself because you are homophobic and trying to make excuses for being homophobic. You don't fool me, but I'm sure the homos are supportive of you being afraid of them so you say they are ok while you hide your butt from them.....either that or you are a closet queer.
You might as well quit trying to argue if you are afraid to say what homo fags do is wrong, and you are afraid to let them do it to you.
You need to get saved, then you won't have to keep arguing and defending yourself and you can be honest and call right right and wrong wrong and fear nobody but God.
All this just because I have logically showed how you are homophobic and do not have the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell? I'm sorry your mental block won't allow you to see that you are stuck a box.
Nothing you've said is logical. If you were logically inclined you would realise that what you are saying is fuelled by authority of the church and your own 'mental block' that has been engraved in your mind since your pathetic birth.
Your unfounded argument is pathetic in my eyes. Your resort to hopeless slurs indicates to me that you're weak. Return to kneeling before Jesus and doing what you do best, kissing his righteous arse.
What is your problem? One minute you sound rational and reasonable, then you turn into a hater with nothing to say other than gratuitous insults. And then you punctuate it with vulgarity misspelled as if that makes it good.
Sorry I bothered you after you first indicated you are bothered and won't listen to reason.
It's much simpler to stick with the Bible commentary, they do that which is against nature and receive in themselves the recompense of their error and it's an abomination.
Oh really, stick to Bible commentary? That seems like a great idea. Why don't we all just suppress women, approve of slavery and condemn homosexuals by burning them. What world do you want to live in you sick man?
Why don't you be a man and refuse to bend over for or condone abominable stinky perversion of men? I know, you're a homophobe...it's easier to go along with them than resist. AIDS is just part of the game and if you or your loved ones get hit by it, you really don't deserve it.
check out the Bible passages I posted, one from the gospel according to John and the other from the Epistle to the Romans. If sighing makes you feel relieved or comforted, you'll probably get a lot of relief and comfort from reading those Bible passages
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
How do you feel about the Bible argument against homosexuality?
Romans Chapter 1:18 -32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? He that sits in the heavens shall laugh, the Lord shall have them in derision.
Can't you see that I feel sorry for you while I laugh at you? I find your life to be tragic when I know you can have eternal life...so I'm making fun of you as a method of trying to get you to see that you are being a fool to think you have the right to exist outside of Hell as a sinner.
I come here because I am filled with joy to the point that it overflows and I want others to have the same joy. You can't understand this if you won't admit that your sins have separated you from God and you deserve His punishment, and you won't believe He loves you so much that He became a man to pay for your sins so He can consider your account paid in full and you won't have to pay in Hell.
Listen, thinker, I'm fairly certain that you are "normal" like most of the people I know and work with who are not Christians....nice enough and pleasant enough to get along with as long as we don't have to fight over food and water....and if you say you are not a sodomite, then I believe you though I still think you are afraid of them for the reasons I stated earlier...if you are afraid to bend over and let them abuse your body for pleasure, and you are afraid to say it is wrong for them to abuse bodies of willing or unwilling people that way, then you are afraid of them, homophobic to the chicken core of your chicken bones. I'm trying to get you to think outside of your box-brain which is nothing but a coffin. All you are doing is putting yourself away in death. God loves you and wants you to be saved from eternal death in Hell. You have to believe Him and receive His offer of salvation or you will be lost in your sin, dead as you are now in sin forever in Hell....dying forever as you are dying now. You need to think for yourself for your own good. God wants you in Heaven and you are daring Him to prove He can rule against you in Hell.
You are obviously either a homophobe or a closet queer, sodomizing and/or being sodomized but too ashamed to admit it. You reek of fear, and you reek of sodomites who smear their stinky dung covered bodies around and try to tell people who are not afraid of them that they better be afraid. I'm not afraid of you, you homophobe or homo or whatever you are in the dark corners of your mind and life...I'll say sodomy is evil because it's evil and I"m not afraid of any homophobe or homo lover who hates the truth.
You're such a fool, it's too funny to read your stuff and then bother to respond. For a guy who flatters himself claiming to be intelligent, your thinking sure is boxed in dying.
It's not the theme of your argument but your aggressive and confrontational manner of expression which makes you a pariah on this forum and belittles your Christian faith. To willfully and openly demean someone's sexual orientation is, at best, spiteful and embarrassingly hurtful for the recipient, and at worst an act of a deliberate hate crime. But, as in the ''Ashers Bakery'' affair in Northern Ireland, a Christian declines to participate in the celebration of homosexuality by politely and discretely refusing to decorate a cake with with text celebrating a homosexual union which goes against the Christian scriptures then that person should not be forced to go against the teachings of his/her religion. That is an argument which the ardent followers of all the world's man made religions are entitled to. If the aim of your God is to have his disciples spread the Christian Gospel by gentle persuasion then you should retire from your self appointed roll of preacher and take up boundary riding on the sheep farms of the Australian outback where you won't meet many human being and thus ensuring 'damage limitation' to the cause of Christianity.
They crucified Jesus because He told them the truth about their sin bluntly and directly. They did not crucify Him because He was too nice. I'm following Jesus, and He assures me that by following Him I am guaranteed that the world will hate me the same as they hated Him. You hate the truth, and you want me to stop telling it. That's your problem, not mine.
It is the aggression of sodomites which calls for the truth to be spoken against their evils, and it is the cowardice of people like you which causes a vacuum of truth as people are afraid of the truth so they hide from it, and help others to hide from it, and cry like little babies..."wah, wah, the truth hurts, don't tell me what's right or wrong because I feel like doing wrong and it feels good when I do it. You can't take my favorite toys away even if they do spread STD's and cause people to commit suicide all over the place because they can't handle their mixed up emotions when they realize how dirty and hopeless their sin is. Wahhhh, Wahhhh, stop telling me the truth or I'll have to put you in jail where you can rot and die you stinking Christian, you big hater you....wahh wahhh!!"
No. But even though religious zealots are in the minority they are a menace to the society in which they live and adopt that awful position of aloofness. In reality they are ignorant morons who haven't the intellect to grasp what science has proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Those who worship their gods quietly and in private are to be respected, but those pests who try to ram their superstitious hocus pocus down your throat at every opportunity are below contempt.
Religious freedom gives THEM the right to THEIR religion. It does NOT give them the right to insist others FOLLOW their religion, or go by THEIR beliefs. It makes no difference whether their beliefs are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ... OR even Atheistic. Just mind your own business! Life will be good.
The ugly one here is the waiter who is making a mountain out of a mole hill. He as not held under threat of having his head cut off if he refused to agree with the Bible in saying that it is abomination for men to lie with men or animals as with a woman, and abomination for women to lie with women or animals as with a man. Boo Hoo for the homophobes who want to defend sodomiy but are afraid to let them sodomize the homophobe.
I think you should get on a plane and go visit some Muslims in the middle east and see how long they let you talk like this. Personally, you don't bother me...it's open discussion here, so anything you put in front of my eyes is my business if I choose to read it, and it's my business if I choose to respond, and you are free to ignore what I say and that would not bother me in the least.
What's going on is a facist attempt to remove freedom of speech from people who believe the Bible is the Word of God, and the reason they want to silence God's Word is that they hate God and they love their sin more than life, they love death, and they are DESPERATE to convince themselves that they have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell...They don't have the guts to listen to the truth, it's much easier to crucify Jesus Christ than to sit and listen to Him tell the truth against your SIN!!
No. Few want to "remove freedom of speech" from Christians. It's just that WE don't happen to follow YOUR religion (THAT is OUR freedom), and would like YOU to keep your beliefs to yourself! You might consider THIS a "sin", but, WE believe religion is like a penis. It's nice to have one, it is good to be proud of it but, don't whip it out and wave it around in public, and don't try to shove it down someone's throat that doesn't want anything to do with it!
Why don't you keep your belefs to yourself you old Hell bound fool?
If you don't like what I'm saying, don't read my words. I'm not reading yours any more because I know you are full of garbage and it's stinking too much. You need to get saved from Hell before you end up burning like garbage in the eternal wasteland of creatures who are in rebellion against their Creator. You are an old fool, and if you don't like me saying so, well, boo hoo.
Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved from Hell and have joy and peace and know God's love and stop being a fool.
Hogwash. The perverted waiter did or said something to announce his preference of perversion abusing his body outside or marriage. He needed a rebuke for his unprofessionalism, and writing "straight" on a napkin is quite mild for a rebuke. The stupid waiter is lucky the customer didn't stand up and say so everybody could here him something like..."why do you have to show and tell sexual preferences? You are supposed to be a professional server, bringing my meal and making sure I have a pleasant dining experience, not trying to get me to approve of your perversion. You should be fired for making customers uncomfortable by pushing your sexual feelings on them." That would have been appropriate, and it would have been appropriate for the couple to walk out and not pay their bill after rebuking the waiter.
The waiter had no business exposing his sexual preference to the customers. Only perverts can't see the simplicity of this because their mind is twisted so they scarcely know right from wrong any more...professing themselves to be wise, the become fools.
At the core of any great religion is some semblance of the golden rule - treating other people the way you'd like to be treated. Being a dick to someone in the name of religion only proves either your religion is wrong or you personally failed to learn its most important lesson.