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Debate Info

76
70
Yes, They Do Have That Right No, They Don't Have That Right
Debate Score:146
Arguments:141
Total Votes:166
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes, They Do Have That Right (70)
 
 No, They Don't Have That Right (59)

Debate Creator

PhxDemocrat(13120) pic



Religious Freedom's Ugly Side

A waiter in Boise, Idaho was humiliated by a supposedly friendly middle-aged couple when he picked up the receipt and found the word, "Straight," written on it along with a fire and brimstone pamphlet.  The waiter said he never mentioned that he was Gay to these customers but they judged him to be so.

Question:  Does Religious Freedom give religious fanatics the right to taunt people whom they judge to be sinful?

Yes, They Do Have That Right

Side Score: 76
VS.

No, They Don't Have That Right

Side Score: 70
3 points

The whole point about freedoms, religious and speech for instance, is that they are inviolable rights however there will always be consequences in the use of that right.

For example in slander and libel and no one has the right to impose their beliefs upon others Simply having a thicker skin does not prevent or excuse people for their unwarranted or inappropriate behaviour towards others

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
2 points

Freedom of religion means freedom to believe as you will and to practice your beliefs until such a point as that practice infringes upon the rights of others. Not only does an expression of judgement not violate any tangible right of another person, but it is covered by the freedom of speech. If one is to suggest that we ought to censor religious expression, however offensive we personally find it, then one must accept that their own freedom of expression might be similarly constrained.

Personally, I find it preposterous to sacrifice our freedoms in the name of our emotional sensibilities... particularly when we could just grow a backbone and care less what others think about us instead.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

"A waiter in Boise, Idaho was humiliated by a "supposedly" friendly middle-aged couple."

Can the Huff and Puff post clear up whether they were friendly or hostile ?

Just another attack on religion by the Left !

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right

The Huffington Post can't clear up anything unless it has to do with tabloid grade celebrity stories or blatantly partisan hit pieces.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

I'm only restating what I believe in a book, so that isn't judging at all.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

Unfortunately they do have the right of voice even if harsh.

But it's the same of every belief from the atheist to the Muslim, from the Black Lives Matter to White supremacist, from the "Christian" to LGBT. There is a boundary for each of these, and that boundary isn't offense to their voice or their rights. The boundary is when the other voice is silenced because of the other voices.

The boundary is the rights of others, and the safety of the voice of others. Religious freedom is like debate, your encouraged to debate because debate challenges your thoughts, helps you understand something bigger than the box you have for your little part in the world, it is a platform that gives a voice to views and opinions, and tolerance to conversation and debate is needed in every area of civilized reasoning.

Religious Freedom is your belief, atheist to the Christian.

No government should be allowed to silence who we are and what we believe, they should simply mediate negotiations for the best outcome and for the good of all.

I don't know the details of this encounter, I do know the lack of tolerance has become greater toward faith, and offense is the rule to silence 1 belief over 1 nonbelief.

And that's basically the foundation of Communism. Not the freedom of American values

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

What does tolerance in the voice sense entail.

What if you were gay, and we're offended?

What if you were Black and offended?

What if you were Christian and offended

Or Muslim and offended.

Do you live another day? Is the brush against offense crippling?

Bullying is crippling, if every someone takes your lunch money and threatens you, are is a Conrad drip undermining your choices, or your looks, or size then there is supportive channels to pursue in curing that. And if it's hostile to the point of harassment, true harassment - Not just a brush against offense then there are even legal channels to pursue.

But what if the Christian just told you something, and you walked away dismissing their view. Isn't that simply respecting anothers view. Does it have to be a crime to converse?

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
0 points

I agree that people have the right to religious freedom because of its importance to society. While it may have caused a lot of hate groups to form against other religions or races, the origin and core beliefs of religions are quite good and beautiful. It's not that people's religious freedoms should be changed, but rather how people are exercising their religious beliefs. People have the right to have religious freedoms as long as no harm is being put on other people physically or mentally. Homophobia among religions may be a counter argument to religious freedom;however, religion itself wasn't founded on hatred toward homosexuals but rather created over time. I agree, there should be a bit of censorship placed on religions, but i disagree that people shouldn't, at all, have the right to religious freedom.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
KNHav(1918) Disputed
1 point

I get your point I think, I agree that not all religious values should be a right of expression. The boundary is the law to protect the rights of all. And that alone should be it's filter.

Otherwise it's subjective to whoever is in charge of defining our freedom. That being said we are American citizens and our rights as citizens should be protected first, and religions that promote violence should be stopped at the door, as we fix what we have in our midst. And if your belief promotes violence, then you self direct scrutiny of your beliefs.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
2 points

Although this story does not state that these people were judging religiously or, indeed, were religious at all, I think judging from a religious point of view is wrong.

People have the right to be who they are and not be suppressed by anyone, let alone religious people against homosexuality. Obviously, however, religious people should have the same rights to adhere to their religion's principles and philosophies, but this does not give them the right to impose their principles on others.

It is now fact, through research, that homosexuality is not a choice but that you are born with the disposition. It is not up to a religious person, who has the choice to be a follower of a religion, to say that a homosexual is 'sinful'. Also, the fellow as the waiter wasn't 'imposing' his homosexuality upon the couple dining, yet they think it is acceptable to judge him and say that he is wrong? What a way to disrespect someone who is for one, serving you and two, not causing any grief towards them.

Lastly, and personally, I think that some religions (no generalisation) do have a particularly intolerant outlook on many people, cultures and policies, which we, as a society, have the right to criticise.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Jace(4530) Disputed
1 point

This is not oppression, and to suggest as much is not only absurd but diminishes the meaning of the word in reference to actual oppression. One is not oppressed simply because someone has judged them poorly; people judge other people all of the time, for secular reasons as well as religious ones. Also, an expression of judgement in no way imposes any beliefs onto anyone. Was the couple rude? Certainly. Oppressive? Hardly. I would politely but firmly suggest that some people need to grow greater self-confidence and invest less in the opinion of strangers.

What research actually shows is that homosexuality is a genetic disposition that may become active if someone is exposed to certain stimuli over the course of their life. Not that the source of homosexuality is particularly relevant anyways.

Upon what basis do you suggest that any religion is more intolerant than others? To my knowledge, there is simply no evidence to support your claim and I suspect it has more to do with your own biases against particular religions than with actual proof.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

Hogwash...more homosexual propaganda. This kind of research ignores family dynamics where children have unbalanced relationships with their parents and identify their sexuality with a skewed understanding. They grow up getting confusing messages about their gender, and most of them get molested by perverts who hone in on their confusion to guide them with molestations like wild dogs honing in on an animal that is weak due to being ill.

I'll give you some credit for pointing out the OP's bias against Christianity. The Bible and Christians who believe the Bible are always the scapegoats when sodomite-pervs feel bad about themselves or get hurt in any way. "It's Christians' faults for not helping us to feel good about the way we are" and stupid crybaby stuff like that....now they are getting more and more laws behind them and Christians will be going to jail more and more.

We've killed enough babies to equal the population of 25 US states (yes, lower population states, but 25 together for crying out loud) and now we've legitimized sodomite unions and perverted the meaning of marriage so "marriage" is no longer the sacred thing God made it for....America will fall under God's judgement into fascism or communism or Islam or worse before long....it's obvious God is warning America of impending judgement if she doesn't quit calling evil good, and good evil.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
ThinkerLad(267) Disputed
0 points

First off, I didn't say 'oppression', I said 'suppression'. They are quite different.

The reason I said 'suppression' is because the couple who left the scornful message were essentially saying that they don't like the fact that the waiter was, or 'seemed', homosexual. This, for the waiter, isn't particularly nice and he feels as though the fact that he is a homosexual is a bad thing.

Secondly, in response to 'people judge people all of the time', I agree. People do judge people, that is true and part of our nature to do so, just because they are different to ourselves. However, I think it is unacceptable to vocalise it in ways like this couple did, and also saying that someone should have 'greater self-confidence' does not mean that they should be able to handle the flak from rude and intolerant people. I'm sure the waiter is confident enough anyway with his homosexuality by the way he dealt with the insult the way he did, along with the growth of tolerance towards homosexuals in a civilised world.

Thirdly, how can you suggest that there is no evidence for intolerance in certain religions? By definition, Evangelical Christians, Muslims, Roman Catholics and I'm sure some other extras have a particularly bitter view on homosexuality.

From your rather naive statement, I presume that you have never read the quotes from 'Leviticus' that prohibit homosexuality - 'If anyone does any of these abominations, those who do them will be cut off from the midst of their people' - and punish it - 'If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.' Let me just iterate that it says this in THE BIBLE, which some people still hold so very dear to them.

I am not biased against any religion, I just look at the evidence.

Thank you for the response and I would enjoy another dispute with you another time :)

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right

Eloquently stated!

It was an insult for this couple to write "Straight" on the receipt. Who do they think they are! The waiter handled the incident professionally.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

oh boo hoo for the waiter. People who don't know me have accused me of being a homo pervert...I don't know why. I'm not going to cry about it, but since you feel the waiters pain, boo hoo for both of you.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Hogwash! For the waiter to have handled the incident professionally, he should have just put the note in his pocket and not turned it into he own personal ad campaign. If he was being professional in his response, he would have said nothing about it. He's just being a big cry baby, very unprofessional.

If he was professional about it, we would not be talking about it and I would not be calling him a whiny cry baby.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
0 points

Hogwash. Pervert molest boys and the boys grow up confused about their sexuality and are exploited by more experienced homos perverts. 90 percent will admit to being molested as children. They were not born as perverts.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Jace(4530) Disputed
1 point

Feel free to present any evidence whatsoever for your baseless claim. Should you respond to this post and fail to do so, it is a fair conclusion that you have no such evidence and I will not bother to reply further.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
0 points

You are one of the few of this site who speaks truth.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
2 points

NO

Religious freedom doesn't grant people the right to be rude to others. Freedom of speech DOES grant the right to be rude, insulting and judgmental to complete strangers. These cowardly people didn't even have the decency to address the waiter directly. If they truly intended to offer help or guidance to the waiter, they would not have simply left an insult and disappeared.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
AlofRI(1839) Disputed
1 point

It's very sad, and a big problem with this country when Americans think that "Freedom of speech" gives them the "right" to be rude, insulting and judgmental. Back in the 60's an author published a book called "The Ugly American". It probably should be re-published. Today we have even UGLIER Americans. Ones who seem to have had no "upbringing" that included how to be a "mice" American. Today they hold people in high esteem when nastiness just rolls off their tongue, ... like Donald Trump. You may have the "right", but, what would Jesus say?? I'm an Atheist, but, I have the "right" to ask the question.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

You'll note that DaveR clearly didn't support what they did from an ethical stand point, he just stated that they do have a legal right to take part in such behavior. We have the right to do many things that we simply shouldn't do for the sake of decency and respect, but stating that we do indeed have the right anyway isn't an endorsement of such behavior.

I would have to say that Donald Trump is epitomizing the current fad of the "I have the right to be rude, therefore I'm going to be" mentality.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

So you must put all the Christians in jail because they believe the Bible which says it is abomination for a man to lie with a man as with a woman, or for a woman to forsake the natural use of the man and burn in her lust with another woman. If it is rude to tell the truth about something, then Christians must be jailed if not killed.

If the waiter was not a sodomite, what's the big deal? Boo hoo, somebody thought he seemed to have effeminate manners and needs help to be manly. ....wahhhhh wahhhh, it hurt his feelings...awwwww....kill the Christians and then we can all be happy in the city of Sodom.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
ThinkerLad(267) Disputed
2 points

I would agree that culling all christians would increase happiness, but that is besides the point.

I don't think that someone as immature and uneducated as you should be allowed on a sophisticated debating site like this. Why do you think it is true that homosexuals are abominations? Oh yeah, the bible. Why do you not see the 'big deal' in this situation? Just because you are an idiot, actually...

The big deal isn't whether the waiter was a homosexual or not, it's whether the rude, hateful and intolerant couple who were served by the waiter should be able to insult people in the first place.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
1 point

It's not the theme of your argument but your aggressive and confrontational manner of expression which makes you a pariah on this forum and belittles your Christian faith. To willfully and openly demean someone's sexual orientation is, at best, spiteful and embarrassingly hurtful for the recipient, and at worst an act of a deliberate hate crime. But, as in the ''Ashers Bakery'' affair in Northern Ireland, a Christian declines to participate in the celebration of homosexuality by politely and discretely refusing to decorate a cake with with text celebrating a homosexual union which goes against the Christian scriptures then that person should not be forced to go against the teachings of his/her religion. That is an argument which the ardent followers of all the world's man made religions are entitled to. If the aim of your God is to have his disciples spread the Christian Gospel by gentle persuasion then you should retire from your self appointed roll of preacher and take up boundary riding on the sheep farms of the Australian outback where you won't meet many human being and thus ensuring 'damage limitation' to the cause of Christianity.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
2 points

No. But even though religious zealots are in the minority they are a menace to the society in which they live and adopt that awful position of aloofness. In reality they are ignorant morons who haven't the intellect to grasp what science has proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Those who worship their gods quietly and in private are to be respected, but those pests who try to ram their superstitious hocus pocus down your throat at every opportunity are below contempt.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

ahhahahhhahah.....what science has proven beyond a reasonable doubt......hahahhahahhahahha

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Was that your brother who went around killing Christians on that college campus a few days ago?

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
2 points

Religious freedom gives THEM the right to THEIR religion. It does NOT give them the right to insist others FOLLOW their religion, or go by THEIR beliefs. It makes no difference whether their beliefs are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ... OR even Atheistic. Just mind your own business! Life will be good.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

The ugly one here is the waiter who is making a mountain out of a mole hill. He as not held under threat of having his head cut off if he refused to agree with the Bible in saying that it is abomination for men to lie with men or animals as with a woman, and abomination for women to lie with women or animals as with a man. Boo Hoo for the homophobes who want to defend sodomiy but are afraid to let them sodomize the homophobe.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

I think you should get on a plane and go visit some Muslims in the middle east and see how long they let you talk like this. Personally, you don't bother me...it's open discussion here, so anything you put in front of my eyes is my business if I choose to read it, and it's my business if I choose to respond, and you are free to ignore what I say and that would not bother me in the least.

What's going on is a facist attempt to remove freedom of speech from people who believe the Bible is the Word of God, and the reason they want to silence God's Word is that they hate God and they love their sin more than life, they love death, and they are DESPERATE to convince themselves that they have the right to exist outside of the fire of Hell...They don't have the guts to listen to the truth, it's much easier to crucify Jesus Christ than to sit and listen to Him tell the truth against your SIN!!

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
instig8or(3310) Disputed
1 point

ALLAHHHHHH HU AKBARRRRRRRR kaboom

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
AlofRI(1839) Disputed
1 point

No. Few want to "remove freedom of speech" from Christians. It's just that WE don't happen to follow YOUR religion (THAT is OUR freedom), and would like YOU to keep your beliefs to yourself! You might consider THIS a "sin", but, WE believe religion is like a penis. It's nice to have one, it is good to be proud of it but, don't whip it out and wave it around in public, and don't try to shove it down someone's throat that doesn't want anything to do with it!

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
1 point

They don't have the right to taunt someone who chose to be gay. They should respect their choice and mind their own business.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

Hogwash. The perverted waiter did or said something to announce his preference of perversion abusing his body outside or marriage. He needed a rebuke for his unprofessionalism, and writing "straight" on a napkin is quite mild for a rebuke. The stupid waiter is lucky the customer didn't stand up and say so everybody could here him something like..."why do you have to show and tell sexual preferences? You are supposed to be a professional server, bringing my meal and making sure I have a pleasant dining experience, not trying to get me to approve of your perversion. You should be fired for making customers uncomfortable by pushing your sexual feelings on them." That would have been appropriate, and it would have been appropriate for the couple to walk out and not pay their bill after rebuking the waiter.

The waiter had no business exposing his sexual preference to the customers. Only perverts can't see the simplicity of this because their mind is twisted so they scarcely know right from wrong any more...professing themselves to be wise, the become fools.

Side: Yes, They Do Have That Right
1 point

At the core of any great religion is some semblance of the golden rule - treating other people the way you'd like to be treated. Being a dick to someone in the name of religion only proves either your religion is wrong or you personally failed to learn its most important lesson.

Side: No, They Don't Have That Right