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But Honestly, I don't think they have a bad song. As Dave would say, they're all F^%$@ awesome!! And hey, look at this!! I wish we had Dave here these last few months to keep things under control, LOL
you arent supporting rock at all youre just saying hip hop sucks, its actually your argument that sucks as your point is that hip hop sucks, not backing it up with any evidence of any sort.
Why is everyone down voting this guy and up voting RavenLily? He's just saying the truth. Her argument is just her relative, subjective and probably biased opinion, with no evidence to back it up other than her personal preference.
Again clarifying to avoid casting a vote when my intent is to dispute.
Sounds better is entirely subjective, really.
As far as talent goes- I don't believe that rock requires more talent, it simply requires different talents.
In hip hop, the main emphasis is on the lyrics- there is a large amount of talent necessary in this field, and it is essentially the anchor that the instrumentals need to accomodate.
In rock, the vocals are really just another instrument. They need to work well with the instrumentals, which need to compliment one another as well.
I believe that individual talent is more important in hip hop, but chemistry and synergy are more important in rock. In some ways individual talent can never be replaced, but at the same time no amount of talent can create chemistry where there is none.
Not only does Rock require different talents, but it also requires more. Rapping is a vocal talent, instruments aren't required. Rock on the other hand is a combination of different instruments and vocals. Playing guitar is a separate talent than playing drums. Hip hop requires one, maybe two different talents. Sure, hip hop has some background beats... but most of the time, all of those beats are from a computer... making that just one other talent.
Devil's Advocate- a significant amount of modern rock is synthesized as well.
Beyond just that, the characteristic sound of an electric guitar riff is not generated by the musician, but by electronic distortion of the digital signal.
Rap is only a form of hip hop- and you're somewhat correct about rap, at the very least. But hip hop in general has some fairly complex instrumentals as well, some having as many or more instruments as the average rock band.
Some rock bands are as small as three people- lead guitar, bass, and drums, with one or all of them doing vocals.
In larger rock bands, individual talent isn't really all that important. Check out the bass tabs for some of your favorite songs- while there is some complex bass to be found, it's often extremely simple. And simple works very well for it, because it's easier to weave simpler instrumentals together, and rock is all about the whole package.
In hip hop, like I've said, the lyrics are more front and center (rap being the extreme example of this) and the instrumentals are all there to support the lyrics.
So what you're saying, I think, is more opinion than fact. I'll concede that on average, at the band level rather than the individual artist, rock will have a larger number of individual talents as there are typically more instruments at play. But at the individual level, not so much; each person needs a measure of talent in their instrument, and vocals where applicable. The same holds true for hip hop; while the MC typically isn't also operating an instrument, stage presence and dancing are far more important to hip hop, and an arena where hip hop has a clear lead over rock.
So I'm sticking to my original thesis; they require different talents, with more of an emphasis on individual talent in hip hop and more of an emphasis on chemistry and synergy in rock.
Beyond just that, the characteristic sound of an electric guitar riff is not generated by the musician, but by electronic distortion of the digital signal.
Just because the sound comes out an amplifier, doesn't mean it requires less talent.
Rap is only a form of hip hop- and you're somewhat correct about rap, at the very least. But hip hop in general has some fairly complex instrumentals as well, some having as many or more instruments as the average rock band.
I find that hard to believe. There are many different genres of rock... many different instruments, all requiring different talents. Give me an example of some hip hop that you find more impressive than rock in general.
In larger rock bands, individual talent isn't really all that important. Check out the bass tabs for some of your favorite songs- while there is some complex bass to be found, it's often extremely simple. And simple works very well for it, because it's easier to weave simpler instrumentals together, and rock is all about the whole package.
That doesn't mean it doesn't require individual talents. There are bands where the bassist is the stand out performer.
So what you're saying, I think, is more opinion than fact. I'll concede that on average, at the band level rather than the individual artist, rock will have a larger number of individual talents as there are typically more instruments at play. But at the individual level, not so much; each person needs a measure of talent in their instrument, and vocals where applicable. The same holds true for hip hop; while the MC typically isn't also operating an instrument, stage presence and dancing are far more important to hip hop, and an arena where hip hop has a clear lead over rock.
Typically, Hip Hop isn't usually at the band-level though. It's usually one artist with maybe a DJ for the background. Rock is almost always at the band level. Even individually, Hip Hop is essentially just poetry with a beat. It can't really be called singing, can it? While not everyone is as talented as certain hip hop artists, everyone pretty much already has the ability to rap. I could sit here right now and rap, where as learning an instrument would take time. I feel like it takes more to be a successful rock artist than it does to be a successful hip hop artist.
Yes, there are many different genres of rock, with many different instruments. That is a valid point. But stating that rock in general requires more talent because of that does not follow; it is a pure non sequitur. While many instruments are involved, any given rock band only involves a small number of them. If you're going to count the entire gamut of instruments that might be used, in the interest of fairness one would also need to count the entire gamut of styles, types of stage presence, dancing, et al that is found in hip hop as well.
I can't personally give you an example of hip hop that I find more impressive than rock in general. This is because I am far more of a rock fan than a hip hop fan. That is my subjective opinion, however. In terms of looking at what goes into each form objectively, I can't claim that either one requires more talent than the other.
And you're right to an extent; rock does benefit from individual talents, but most rock bands have a replaceable member or two. In the case where the bassist stands out, there is typically a rhythm guitar with a very easy role to play. The difference is, rock benefits from individual talent; hip hop just about requires it. Similarly, hip hop benefits from chemistry and synergy; rock just about requires it.
From your post, I would presume that most of your exposure to hip hop is in the form of rap. That's not all there is to hip hop.
Everyone can rap, just as everyone can play an instrument given practice. But not everybody who can play an instrument can compose a piece. Not everyone who can rap can make a compelling rhyme without making huge stretches with language.
Neither art form is innately superior to the other- they are simply different.
I would also say that there was a time when becoming a successful rock artist was easier than becoming a successful hip hop artist. That is not a function of how good you are- it is a function of popularity. Rock is not as popular as it once was, and Hip Hop is more popular than it used to be; success in the music industry is not measured in actual talent, it's measured in dollars.
If you're going to count the entire gamut of instruments that might be used, in the interest of fairness one would also need to count the entire gamut of styles, types of stage presence, dancing, et al that is found in hip hop as well.
Stage presence? Can you elaborate?
By talent, I meant musical talents... they are music genres, after all.
From your post, I would presume that most of your exposure to hip hop is in the form of rap. That's not all there is to hip hop.
Is there any form of hip hop that doesn't involve rap, other than the background beats?
Everyone can rap, just as everyone can play an instrument given practice.
But anyone can rap without practice, it might not be very good... but rhyming is pretty simple. In order to play an instrument you need to practice. Look at the guitar. In order to play it, you must first build up calluses on your fingers. Playing and learning an instrument takes a lot more effort than rapping.
That is not a function of how good you are- it is a function of popularity.
So, due to hip hop's popularity... talent isn't a huge concern, right? Maybe this is why people look at hip hop and think it is easy compared to rock.
Hip-hop can incorporate pretty much any methods used in poetry or other musical genres, such as: metre, rhyme, alliteration, assonance, puns, kennings and pretty much any type of other word play or literary techniques. The only difference between hip-hop and rock is presentation, and whichever you prefer is purely subjective, but Hip-hop is definitely more than talking fast to a beat.
Don't like hip hop, love rock and anything that relates to rock, can't beat a bit of breaking benjamin (unless we're talking about 30 seconds to mars since they cannot be beaten!)
1. Having a faster rhythm is totally different from being so fast that the lyrics are unintelligible, like you said before.
2. all\most all hip-hop songs are fast ... only few are slow
Why would you add the "all" in there just to contradict yourself?
3. most all hip-hop songs are fast ... only few are slow
Definitely not true. Fast is a relative term, and "most" hip-hop songs are not even that fast in relationship to other genres. There are some fast hip-hop songs, just like there are some fast rock songs. There are probably more hip-hop artist's who rap faster than rock artists sing, but thats different from "most hip-hop songs are fast". And even though more hip-hop lyrics are faster than rock, that doesn't make it a bad genre.
Hard to choose i like both with one you can feel like a moody rock star (getting down with the sickness, slicing you wrists and bleeding, or calling you mom a fuing B.. all distured btw... well and Eminem). with the other you can wake up in bugattis, F bad B@es, ( even if its all in most of our heads) or have millions of dollars for talking. I LOVE MUSIC!!!
I chose clarify to avoid casting a vote to either side, by my intent is to dispute this point, specifically.
There is rock music that demonstrates incredible mastery of lyric, and there is rock that is lackluster in the music department.
Similarly, there is hip hop that has lyrical flow that is questionable at best, as well as hip hop that has masterful instrumentals.
Still, I see the overall point, as there is certainly more of an emphasis on the lyrics in hip hop- but in practice, I don't believe your statement is correct.
Edit: Passed over some of my words as the Department of Redundancy Department indicated a problem.
i like both rock and hip hop but i love some good hip hop. of course this is all relative though. it takes skill to make a really good hip hop song that can withstand the test of time.
hip hop requires more lyrical skills which is harder to learn that skills needed for rock, in rock you need to learn instruments but that can be taught easily, lyricism can be more complex and allows the artist to be more creative
rock is just one genre that follows the same pattern over and over, while hip hop has different aspects to it, can incorporate different kinds of sounds such as soul, jazz, electro, EVEN ROCK and doesnt just follow a set template of how songs go, hip hop is for the elevated minds, keep your third eyes sharp mofos
I'll admit, alot of todays Hip-hop is pretty crappy, but if you look hard enough there are still a few good rappers out there. Good Hip-hop takes alot of skill, especially freestyling. Since when has anyone heard of a rock artist instantly coming up with, pretty much a song, right on the spot?
Some rock musicians have come up with lyrics out of nowhere, and struggled to find music to fit it.
In hip hop, the lyrics are more central, and the style of music makes it easier to set music to the lyrics after the fact.
With hip hop, the instrumentals are all there to support the lyrics; with rock, the instrumentals have a much greater need to work with each other as well as the vocals; the vocals in rock are really just another instrument rather than the overall focus.
Individual skill is more important in hip hop, I think, but chemistry and the ability to work well together is more important in rock.
I grew up on this music, I do love hard rock but most of rock is just a shambles. Same shit, guitar solos all the same crap over and over. Rap and hip-hop is an extremely varied genre with people rapping about pussy and ass to people rapping about their childhood to people rapping about revolutionary ideas (rap is just hip-hop with a lot of voice on it).
I agree with you completely, Watsky is a very talented artist and even though this isn't my fav song by him it does show his capability to tell a great story through his music which many rap artists struggle to accomplish.