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Satanism: Moral vs Immoral.
Let's see who's ignorant. Is Satanism evil or immoral? Do people generally know alot about this religion? Would you consider practicing it in one form or another?
Post your thoughts.
Lets assume that both entities exist. Since youre using the bible as valid proof of your argument i will also use it. In the bible God is the embodiment of absolute good. Everything he did was moral whether you like it or not, because the Christian God can only do good and even if you interpret good differently t doesnt matter because he is omniscient and knows what you do not. Since satan is his enemy it means that he stands for the complete opposite, which is not perfectly moral because that is what God is.
That is what they think and what the bible teaches yes. Though its clear to anyone outside the religion looking objectively at it with a modern sense of morality that it is fucked up and hypocritical.
If perception differs person to person how can people look at it objectively? Also, does the fact that people have a modern sense of morality make their judgements more valid? Morality is subjective so any judgements made regarding it are subjective and reveal no objective truth. Its all legit to christians. Can one opinion be said to be righter than the other?
God had already defined morality in his own laws/commandments, such as "do unto others as you would do unto yourself" but he murders 2 million people, many of which were innocent; including the 42 youths who just called someone a baldhead and got serious bear treatment, which shouldn't be moral in anyone's perspective.
Anyway, Satan gave people the gift of knowledge, while god got pissed, as he prefers blind faith.
God inspired men to create the Bible, a book responsible for many many more deaths, such as the stoning your children for swearing, which was practiced back then. Satan also never talked bad things about god, but god damned Satan.
Not to mention, God, the person of all goodness, had created the most evil place in the world; hell.
So God is responsible for the eternal suffering of many people to this day. Everyone in there doesn't even deserve to face that eternal punishment, since sinning is a tiny thing compared to an infinity of the worst suffering possible.
If you are going to acknowledge the verses in the Bible that support your premises as a legitimate source you must logically accept that all of the verses are worthy of use in an argument unless you can prove that the verses that support your argument are more trustworthy than all of the others.
Isaiah 55:8- " For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." The God of the Christian faith is omniscient, omnipotent, and the embodiment of holiness. He never sins and although he may have killed people that verse pretty much explains it. It isn't immoral of him, because God knows the universal truth of justice. He understands the concepts that human beings cannot, because he is God and knows all. The reason it is a sin for humans to kill is because there is no justifiable reason for them to do so, because humans cant fully grasp the concept of justice. God understands justice for what it is because he is omniscient so he would know when the killing of people would be absolutely just, thus giving him the ability to morally do what we never could.
It wasn't blind faith for Adam and Eve. They knew God and lived with him. They understood the truth of his existence because he was there with them. Satan didn't give them knowledge, he tricked them into throwing away living in eternal bliss. Their punishment was being cast from the Garden of Eden. Work, poverty, pain, and death are all consequences of the actions of Adam and Eve. The life that we all live in with all of the evil in the world is a result of humans having the knowledge of Good and Evil, which gives them a choice to do one or the other instead of only good. God is the only being that can handle the knowledge of good and evil, because he is the embodiment of good. Humans fail with this knowledge, which is why the world is so unfair. Satan gave us knowledge we couldnt handle and a life full of shit that we didnt have to live. Without the knowledge we got from Satan kids wouldnt starve and people wouldnt kill. The world would be just and good, because we would all still live in Eden.
Satan did in fact say bad things about God, this is how he got a third of the angels to side with him.
Hell is not an evil place, because whatever is sent there is sent as a result of a decision of the supreme being that can understand justice for what it actually is, which justifies his actions, because justice is good and God only does good, even when we cant see the good. He understands what we do not.
If you are going to acknowledge the verses in the Bible that support your premises as a legitimate source you must logically accept that all of the verses are worthy of use in an argument unless you can prove that the verses that support your argument are more trustworthy than all of the others.
Verses can logically contradict each other, making the bible invalid quite easily, even under the assumption.
Such as the verses describing how the Serpent managed to deceive Eve, when God wasn't looking; despite his omniscience.
It wasn't blind faith for Adam and Eve. They knew God and lived with him. They understood the truth of his existence because he was there with them. Satan didn't give them knowledge, he tricked them into throwing away living in eternal bliss. Their punishment was being cast from the Garden of Eden. Work, poverty, pain, and death are all consequences of the actions of Adam and Eve. The life that we all live in with all of the evil in the world is a result of humans having the knowledge of Good and Evil, which gives them a choice to do one or the other instead of only good. God is the only being that can handle the knowledge of good and evil, because he is the embodiment of good. Humans fail with this knowledge, which is why the world is so unfair. Satan gave us knowledge we couldnt handle and a life full of shit that we didnt have to live. Without the knowledge we got from Satan kids wouldnt starve and people wouldnt kill. The world would be just and good, because we would all still live in Eden.
If Adam and Eve did not eat that fruit, we would be stuck in eternal bliss/ignorance. Think about how far we have progressed in technology, how we built a world for ourselves, and discovered the universe. Adam and Eve would not have to care about discovering technology, and the world, as all their needs were laid out for them; the proper food and water. Books inspired by the complications of life, art; depicting the beauty and darkness of life, all this inspiration would not of existed. Darkness is a beauty in itself, but the Garden of Eden was devoid of all that. There was no 'sexy', no 'dangerous', just all G-Rated stuff.
Hell is not an evil place, because whatever is sent there is sent as a result of a decision of the supreme being that can understand justice for what it actually is, which justifies his actions, because justice is good and God only does good, even when we cant see the good. He understands what we do not.
The sentence of Eternal suffering can only be an appropriate sentence to someone who has given someone Eternal suffering, because such a punishment goes way above Justice.
Eternity? Really?
And if God was omnipotent, he could be comprehensive enough to see how outcomes would play out; that means that he knows when everything is going to happen, in the future and beyond. From the time he decided to create Adam and Eve, he would then see their future, and their inevitable doom. What's the reason for judging them, then, his own creation?
Incorrect satan created hell god just threw him into a hole satan made it into hell. All the people god killed were killed because satan had corrupted them. And god would have granted Adam and Eve the gift of knowledge but he was testing them satan made them fail and now instead of a plentiful paradise we live in a fucked up world full of paid and misery all thanks to satan
So you're saying God (Yahweh) is morally perfect? If you read the Old Testament, you will see that is not the case to quote Dawkins
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
If you read the old testament you would see this, and yet you still call him good?
And i am not saying that Satanism is moral, but i had to respond to this statement.
In the story of Job Satan makes a deal with God saying basically "No balls, you wont let me test Job's faith to you,". So god says ok, and allows (because satan can do anything without permission) satan to torment job and test his faith. If job fails then satan was allowed to kill him and his family. Well long story short he failed and satan killed 10 of his family along with him. So it was really still god who killed them. Like, did the gun commit the murder or the person shooting it? Satan was just a tool. This story is also a brainwashing tool because it basically drills into the reader to NEVER lose faith because you will die or worse. Real great god huh? Totally lookin out for his followers.
Incorrect. Job succeeded since he never lost faith in God. He was given a new family, better health, and numerous livestock. Your argument is invalid since God allowed Satan to give hardships to Job since God himself has faith in man. Satan was never allowed to kill Job.
This passage was said to Satan from God: "Behold, he is in your hand, but don't touch his life."
You're fucking kidding me right? You do realize no matter which one of us is right it's still fucked up right?
God flat out blatantly allowed Satan to torment job and kill people.
And you justify that by saying he was given a NEW family?! Oh yeah they gave him a new wife and new kids that makes it allllllll better. Just replace those god allowed to be killed for some stupid test.
Fucking Christians and their fucked up twisted morality.
How can you understand Christian morality as a whole if you don`t even believe in the religion itself? The story was just used figuratively. It means that no matter how worse life becomes, if you still remain faithful God will reward you. It does not have to prove anything. Its also like saying that a bully stole a candy from a baby and his father just gives him more candies in return of his faithfulness.
Obviously you are just pessimistic about the actions of God since you don`t believe in him and refute every action he has done as immoral.
HE KILLED AN ENTIRE FAMILY. What the fuck dude?! I know it isnt real and sure, maybe it isnt supposed to be taken literally (though many do). But still, it is fucked up! It is a fucked up way to relay a message, which, turns out to be another commercial via god to stay in the religion.
God literally let the most evil thing in the universe attack an inoccent man for Haha's. Let him KILL, inoccent people. And god doesnt even care!
How DARE you associate human lives with CANDY. Again, i know it isnt real and those people arent real but you literally said a human life is equal to a candy..
I just cant even. Im done. Its so sad and riduculous. I cant even
Ok i just needed a break. One last thing, what this says is that this god doesnt care about his "children"'s lives. He doesnt care about protecting them. He doesnt care about human emotions if he allowed Jobs family to be killed.
This is absolutely immoral. Without a doubt. I dont know why anybody would WANT to believe in a god this cruel. This god clearly is arrogant, selfish, and evil.
Because I used to be theistic. A long time ago but I did have the experience. And I could be a buddhist or something and still be able to look over another religion and determine if it is moral or not based on general modern morality.
I dont get why this is so difficult to understand. You don't have to be A or B to debate about things concerning A and B.
For instance politics. Probably little to no people on here are politicians. Yet there are political debates.
Most types of Satanism seem to be on the moral side of things. It's really only the cliche-usually-teen-rebel satanism that isn't, or the really darker-sinister types of Satanism that I can never find information on.
It's just rebellion. Rebellion in and of itself is neither moral nor immoral. Actions are what makes something moral and satanists seem no more or less inclined toward immoral actions than other religions are the non-religious.
Rebellion only discribes the angst teen fake Christian satanism. There are other independent forms. None of which promote doing evil in any way. If they did I'm sure there wouldve been satanist wars. Also you don't see a satanist pushing their beliefs onto others, especially Christians, publicly.
For example, a christian always feels like it's their duty to go up to a satanist and ask them all kinds of questions and "save" them. Or say shit like "I'll pray for you". You don't see satanists doing that.
It is rebellion though. All forms of it are. It is the following of a deity in opposition to... fill in the blank.
Satan is a symbol of opposition. Sometimes in what I'd describe as a very human and good way, and in the sense you are talking about, the classic teen rebellion, often in a self-destructive way. Still rebellion though no matter what it is.
Satanism precedes christianity (not the Christian rebellion kind the legit theistic/atheistic kind. It is an independent religion. How can it rebel against something that came after it?
Satan was invented as the antithesis of god. Maybe you're talking about another religion preceding satan? Which would of course not be "satanism". Please fill me in.
Ah precisely. I should've been more clear. I apologize. Satan is rooted in Sanskrit. A very old pagan religion and one of the first religions that was written only. He was one of many Hindu-like gods. He was the god of truth (technically the "Adversary of untruth").
He then is believed to have become possibly Horus from Egyptian mythology.
Then he entered the bible to become the mainstream Satan
Eventually we have satanism today. Which still holds the teaching of knowledge to be the most important.
Horus was the predecessor of Jesus as well many feel based on the evolution of Christianity. The irony is entertaining if modern Satan shares that source.
Satanism where knowledge is the most important factor is something I'm familiar with. Later than the time you are talking about would have been Prometheus giving man fire and knowledge despite Zeus's wishes, and for which he was punished not unlike the story of God and Satan, the serpent in Eden. It's not surprising that this theme precedes even that in the least.
Is there a version where this is not "rebellion" "opposition" to a god like Zeus or the Judeo-Christian god?
It was my understanding that the pursuit of knowledge, while paramount, is still rebellion against the wishes of some more popular, more authoritarian deity.
Perhaps I had framed my argument as rebellion being the most important factor regardless of the form of satanism.
The intent was not that. I'm not aware of any religion which is simply rebellion, that would seem impossible as it would eventually devour itself, rebelling against it's own beliefs.
But still, where is the form of satanism, even including its roots which were prior to the term satan, in which it was not a rebellion or based on a rebellious act like giving man knowledge or fire?
Was there a time when the pursuit of knowledge was not against something more mainstream?
I know right? Well, Jesus was copied from who knows how many other Gods. They all have the same characteristics as him.
Is there a version where this is not "rebellion" "opposition" to a god like Zeus or the Judeo-Christian god?
Modern Satanism today has nothing to do with Christianity. It's not about opposing that god or rebellion or anything. Saying that is like saying Buddhism is rebellion against God. It's just a different religion.
The fact that the persuit of knowledge is embraced by Satanism and frowned upon by Christianity is simply a coincidence in this case. Using my other analogy, Buddhism preaches the persuit of knowledge but nobody says that Buddhists oppose the mainstream God for this reason.
Exactly. Rebellion is not important, nor even really present. There are only a handfull of these Christan Satanists who just want to rebel against God. An actual Satanist in any and all forms doesnt even believe in god. Whats the point of rebelling against something that doesnt exist to you? That would be like saying someones rebelling against Zeus. Whats the point?
Well i tried to explain best i could. Along time ago there was Sanskrit with Satan as the god of truth in this ancient pagan Hindu religion. He split and evolved in two paths. One that lead to Satanism as it is today based on the same uncorrupted values taught a long time ago such as knowledge, truth, ect. And the other that was through Christianity as the boogyman, which they chose because knowledge was going against God so it was easy to put him in.
So from it's roots up to Satanism today it has always been about knowledge as the most basic fundamental teaching. Along the way as it got more complex, there was the addition of a moral code, new practices, and the preaching of self-responsibility and responsibility to humanity.
The thing is, it IS nice. But the only thing 99.999% of people think of when they think Satan or Satanism is opposition to God. Nobody has any CLUE what real Satanism teaches.
Please correct me if I am wrong. The Satanism being discussed is Atheistic Satanism, am I right?
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Let's just pretend that I am.
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Personally, I love this form of Satanism. If I were going to be an Atheist, I would belong to the Church of Satan, as founded by Anton LaVey. I have read his Bible and found it delightfully enlightening. Believe it or not, many of my philosophies have been inspired by the Satanic Bible.
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The Satanic Bible should not be confused with the Satanic Verses, (which I haven't read.) The Satanic Verses was taken off of the shelves before I could read it. However, from what I've heard about it, it's pretty nasty and offensive. It is thought the Muslims killed the author of that book because of his offensiveness.
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Back to the Satanic Bible.
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Anton LaVey was an eccentric dude that had wisdom beyond what I would have expected from an average asshole. He didn't like Christians because of their hypocritical behavior. You know, the kind that says that Jesus saves us, but we must be slaves for the rest of eternity? Like, yeah, for Jesus!!
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The question is: Moral vs Immoral?
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My Answer is Moral
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Someone else asked me "Wasn't it odd that information that was supposedly from God was on par or slightly above what everyone else was doing?"
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No. God is within. The Kingdom of God is Within. God is inside everyone as the Living Truth, that makes them live. Everyone gets their shit from God, more or less.
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The Reason Satanism is Moral is because it about selfishness. True selfishness is a valid path to God. The desires that come up from within our subconsciousness are from God, give or takes some twisting, confusing, and messed-up-ness.
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All life is one. Deep inside of our selves is the same core and code that is in everyone else. Also, in a mystic and conscious way, all consciousness ties into a central consciousness. Whether we like it or not, we are all human. That core, is also the core of all living things. In a sense, this is a God. The personalities stretched around this multi-faceted core think of themselves as 'individuals' but they are not. We are all one.
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As a spiritual one, such as myself, digs deeper and deep into my consciousness in my effort to find God, I begin to realize how connected everything is. I realize, if I hurt one person, then within my subconsciousness, I feel the pain. This is how we feel compassion and empathy. When one is hurt, we are all hurt.
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The difference is how "disconnected" are we from our inner self? If we hurt others, but deny the pain we feel, then we will not feel compassion. If we indulge in things that are harmful to ourselves and to others, we are disconnected from our "self." The beauty of this system is, however, the more you deny yourself, the more dysfunctional and painful your life becomes.
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A person CAN find his/her way to God in the Church of Satan, if they don't become assholes and deny the hurt they might cause others. Truth selfish and truth indulgence of the desires of the heart will lead a person into the glory and grace of heaven and God. The desires of the heart are real. What is heaven if you must give up what you want? What is salvation if you must abandon all that you found joy in?
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The Catch 22 of this system is that stupid things, such as drinking, whoring, stealing, and such may sometimes seem like what you want to do. However, you are not truly individual. Behaviors that damages your body, or others, will appear as pain in your life. You might as well find pleasure in shoving bamboo slivers under your fingernails.
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When the Satanist realizes his/her part in the wholeness of life, selfishness and indulgence are perfectly moral.
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What Satanists and Christians may not realize is, they are both after the same thing. One method is seeking Power by finding the Source, the other method is finding power by finding the Self. Funny part is . . . . . . , Self and Source the same thing.
From what I've researched, most Satanists are more moral than the avreage Christian. Satanism does not teach hate or discrimination, and encourages people to find a path more suited to themselves instead of mass conformity.
Due tell. What satanism are you talking about? Theistic satanism? Or atheistic satanic philosophy? Or maybe Laveyan satanism? What about Christian satanism? Oh you mean you had no idea there's more to it than your one sided beliefs? Oh darn how awkward. But seriously do some research. Satanism has nothing to do with your warped religion and is quite more fitting to a modern universal morality and society than Christianity ever was or will be.
First, you are very immoral with your intent here. You have a definition of Satan that most Christians don't know about or understand. You set this up as a trap to ridicule and belittle those trying to make debate. If you came into my house started bitching out Jesus, and hating on him, I would be offended and ask you stop. Then let's say you start up and again and I get really offended and I'm about to kick you out of my house and say, "Hey, what's the big deal, I'm talking about the asshole Mexican named Jesus" I'd be pissed. You would have been intentionally upsetting me and then pretend that I was the one in the wrong.
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That is what you are doing here. You are intentionally upsetting people and then calling them stupid, and getting defensive then you call Satan a loser. You have been very verbal in your attacks against Christianity. So my question is: Is your brand of Satanism Anti-Christ? You say that your brand of Satanism has nothing to do with Christianity, and yet, you seem very angry about it.
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I have studied Satanism fairly extensively for the past 25 years. Satan is more or less, strictly Christian. Lucifer on the hand has roots in several cultures in dependent of Christians. Though Vatican tried to demonize any deity that wasn't their, Lucifer plays the same role as Christ in many cultures. He's not a rebel, so much, and yet, maybe a little. He was trying to help but God and the Humanity. Lucifer had nothing against anyone. His mission was pure love, for everyone and everybody.
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But there is nothing in your behavior make my think that you are talking about the Lucifer. All words have their roots, and Satan does have roots in Sanskrit, but that does not mean that is where the idea of Satan came from. Satan was practically a nobody. Krishna is the great god of the Sanskrit and Hindu and those gods were always killing each other. I don't get it, but I respect it.
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Satanism, though the channels of European heritage has always meant evil. I won't get into why.
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In the mid 1960 some dude in California founded the Church of Satan. I read his book and found it very enlightening. I don't know what has happened since, but he made very clear that he didn't actually believe in Satan, he was just didn't like Christians and he liked "stimulation." He would dress up like the devil and go out into public and everyone would freak out. He was sort of weird though. He felt cheated that he stimulated others, but they would not stimulate him. He like women wetting themselves, really got him off.
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But he had some very good insights that I have held onto over the years. But again, he wasn't really into the Devil. Just weird.
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Point is: Don't put the name Jesus and Satan in the same context and the act shocked when people misunderstand.
You're a fool, AveSatanas practices atheistic satanism, not theistic satanism
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LOL
And this makes me a fool?
::chuckle::
Coming from you, I am going to take that as a compliment. However, this pins my point on the donkey's ass. AveSatanas was playing games with us. I've read a lot of his post over the last few days and I had no idea what type of Satanist he is. But his is also full of shit. The Church of Satan has a lot to do with Christianity. Uncle Howard, (that was his name before it he chose to change it to Anton) built his church on the basis that it was "anti-Christian." I've read his bible. I actually enjoyed the book and he had amazing perspectives on self-indulgence and individuality. But again . . . . he wrote the Satanic Bible because he wanted to sock one to those stuffy as Christians.
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Those of the Church of Satan, as I stated before, are simply atheists with an attitude. They don't believe in God or Satan.
There is no need to call my religion warped. I warship God, I do not follow any set Christian sect. And I was grouping all Satanic religions into one big basket. Now you say you are a Satanist, so QED, you would be a moral person. However, you are insulting me as we speak. So you are either a very poor Satanist, or Satanism is immoral.
Now now, yes some Christians are also immoral, but that is because they are not true Christians/believers.
I would presume Satanists believe in supernatural things, you would believe in creationism etc. So you would also believe in hell. Do you worry about going there? Do you have a moral code?
There is no need to call my religion warped. I warship God, I do not follow any set Christian sect.
I listed many reasons as to why this is an accurate observation. There are of course many more.
And I was grouping all Satanic religions into one big basket
Which is wrong. There is immense diversity among the different types. That would be like lumping Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all together. Theyre too different and each must be analyzed separately.
Now you say you are a Satanist,
Yes, but you have failed to acknowledge what kind. I recall my previous example.
so QED, you would be a moral person.
Not necessarily. there is self morality, and it is also subject to context. What is moral now may not be later. Also my morality may not be the same as yours.
However, you are insulting me as we speak. So you are either a very poor Satanist, or Satanism is immoral.
My insults do not branch from my religion. They branch from my mind. And nothing in satanism says you have to be nice to other people. People insult each other all the time. Im sure you have before. Does that make you a poor christian? No. Also it doesnt reflect on my religion because im not disobeying any rules.
Now now, yes some Christians are also immoral, but that is because they are not true Christians/believers.
Im assuming by "true believers" you mean devout believers in the bible who follow it closely. However, i think we can say that condoning slavery and and animosity towards (or the killing of) homosexuals and witches is immoral.
I would presume Satanists believe in supernatural things, you would believe in creationism etc.
An accurate pressumption for some, however not for me. There is theistic and atheistic satanism. That would apply to theistic. Though they all share the same moral code, philosophy, ideals, ect. Atheistic is just minus the god/gods and supernatural. The supernatrual which i might add is of course absurd, yet presents itself in a more realistic manner than christianity does.
So you would also believe in hell
See above.
Do you worry about going there?
If theistics did then why would anyone follow the religion? It is not to them what it is to you. Might i add that it also has ZERO connection to the christian religion/god. It is an independent religion, not a rebellion of yours (save for a handfull of angsty teens). I could give you a full explaination/history lesson if you really want.
Do you have a moral code?
Moral code, philosophy, whatever you wanna call it. Yes. There are rules to follow and ideals to uphold. The absolute most important of which is knowledge. It is a scholarly religion. It is all about gaining knowledge and being wise, then using this for personal acheivment as well as advancement of humanity. It is not a selfish religion as people think. It is all about advancing humanity together.
Other rules are stuff like:
Do not kill
Do not steal
Do not enter anothers living space without permission
Do not judge others (unlike SOME people...)
Do not give your opinions unless asked to (a very new concept)
And there are some theistic ones that talk about magick and stuff but that of course doesnt apply in my case.
There are more that i cant remember at the moment but they are pretty much general things that anyone should do to be a good person.
What i mean by that is people who worship the devil from christianity as a rebellion to the social norm of god for whatever reason. Like angsty teen goths. Because if you do that, you also have to believe in god and jesus, ect to rebel against them. Therfore they are christians in a sense.
There are Satanists that are Satanists completely independent of Christian mythology.
And there are Satanists who believe in a kind of Satanism that borrows heavily from Christian mythology; they believe in the deities and characters described in the Bible, they just worship the antagonist of the story and not the protagonist. Perhaps calling them "Biblical Satanists" would be more accurate, but "Christian Satanists" gets the point across; they believe in the Christian concept of Satan, thus Christian Satanists.
One of the driving forces for founding the Church of Satan was to scare Christians.
The Church of Satan is really just atheism with a philosophy. I actually like it. It's very insightful.
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The name Satan is associated with Evil. But the Church of Satan doesn't even believe in Satan. That is why some of prick keep acting like we are stupid.
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And just to plug for myself.
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Evil isn't as mysterious as people think. It is not part of what people call "duality." (Good/Evil) It is much more "linear" then that.
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God is all knowing. This means that God feels everything, everyone's pain, suffering, joy, laughter, etc. As we get closer to God, we too become more aware of what other's feel. This is how God knows what is in our hearts and how a true man of God can know what is in your heart.
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Evil can be explained by a play on world.
E-Vil = Energy Veil
De-Vil = De`Energy Veil.
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Technically, there is only one truth in the universe. God, the All Knowing. Through no lack of effort, God created the heavens and earth as part of a structured and layered illusion so that he could create personality for His Awesomeness. Everything else is illusion. You may have even heard it, "Life is an illusion."
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Evil is denial. When we hurt people, or we feel defensive, we build walls to hold back the pain. The more walls we build, the more "evil" we become. This is called "evil" because we lose the sense of connection to people and life. The lack of connections allows us to hurt without regret.
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Just because we don't feel the regret now, it is stored in the subconscious. Eventually, it will have to be faced. When this happens, the best word for it is "hell."
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The word "damn" is really the same thing as the word "dammed." It means to the stop the flow. In this case, it means to stop the flow of consciousness. This is same inflected. People stopped the flow of consciousness because they don't want to know. They become stuck.
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If one respects and understands the true nature of Self, this version of Satanism isn't evil. To really understand God, you will realize that God is Love. This means that God. . . . loves Stuff. He wants it. He gets it. God is Selfish. The good side of that is that God is all of creation, so good for us.
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When realize what we "truly want" we might be surprised that it serves others as well. Maybe we like to sing, teach, adventure, or stuff. Whatever our true desire is, somehow, it will be what the world needs.
I don't understand it and it makes me feel afraid, so I think it's bad and evil.
It's immoral. Even though most satanists are normal people with jobs and even children, I will still look down on them for mocking whichever god they don't believe in.
I guess if people like Srom didn't use this site you'd just realize I was joking right away, but there actually are a lot of very very stupid people in the world...
Maybe you should do some research instead of being one of the ignorant oblivious people in the world.
I don't understand it and it makes me feel afraid, so I think it's bad and evil.
Do you understand exactly how your phone works? do you know exactly how your alive? no. Do you fear those? no. Grow up, and seriously look around before you dismiss it.
Even though most satanists are normal people with jobs and even children, I will still look down on them for mocking whichever god they don't believe in.
That statement is just completely wrong. Yes they do live normal fulfilled life's, and they don't mock any other religion any more than Christianity. They actually are an older religion with a better belief system that doesn't blindly follow the word of one being. Their philosophy tells them to think for themselves. Also if you look down on someone because of their religious beliefs than you don't deserve the respect as a person. Feel free to argue with them, but respect their beliefs.
Any examples of these besides in hollywood films? No? What a shame.
The "Satanism" you speak of is extremely rare. Like EXTREMELY rare. And it is probably more pertaining to the person or person's unstable psyche than actual satanic beliefs. I havent found a site nor book that tells people to do this that any modern day person could take seriously.
As far as ritual sacrifice, id like to point you to Leviticus 1.
Ive said it a million times but clearly you arent the best listener. Real satanism doesnt practice these things. It is independent of christianity. It comes in two forms: Atheistic and theistic. Both sides have a moral code, philosophy, ect, which are suited BETTER to modern day society than traditional christianity.
So a bunch of angsty teens cut themselves and a psychopath or two killed a dude, wow, crazy. that is still a speck of a minority in the whole satanist scene. Also, are you forgeting..whats his name..manson? i think. Who took all those people to africa and killed them? That was christian. And hundreds died. Way more than these supposed satanic cults.
The cases brought forward were worse than that. One girl was raised by satanists and was ritually tourterd. And no Manson was a crazy dude who had women commit murder in his name or so the story goes. The manYour thinking of was a manipulator who wasn't really religious he just liked all the attention he was an egotistical psychopath who paraded around as a preacher
The cases brought forward were worse than that. One girl was raised by satanists and was ritually tourterd.
I guarantee i can find girls who were raised the same way in christian homes by crazy literalist christian psychos. You can find crazies in any religion.
And no Manson was a crazy dude who had women commit murder in his name or so the story goes.
That's right. I get my cult leaders messed up sometimes lol.
The manYour thinking of was a manipulator who wasn't really religious he just liked all the attention he was an egotistical psychopath who paraded around as a preacher
And that justifies it? He used the christian religion either way you look at it. The same goes for these wanna be satanist cult crazies. It's no different.
Again, you know nothing of real satanism. This "rebellion to god" Christian satanism is a minority by far. Real satanism is INDEPENDENT of Christianity.
Well regardless I would say if you are worshiping someone who is called the father of lies, the tempter (corrupter) of man, The Lord of evil, the king of Demond's so on so on that's pretty damn immoral. I just don't see how you justify that.
WRONG again. Satan means truth in sanskrit. It pertains to knowledge. Lucifer means the "light" and the "morning star". Nothing evil about any of that.
He is mainly a god of knowledge and in theistic satanism wants his creation of humanity to advance intellectually to the highest point that it can progress to.
As opposed to god who is never happy with us, restricts us in many ways, and kills us all the damn time. He flooded the earth once already. And he's more loving? You say Satan in your religion leads people away from god. Well if i was christian id want to get as far away from that egomaniac as i could. He's jealous, immoral, selfish, and cruel. Aaaand fake. Just like satan.
What? Did he just say satan isnt real? But i thought he was a satanist?
I am. Most people who are satanists like me dont actually worship the deity satan. It is a philosophy. It comes with a moral code, practices, and ideals. I happen to think they are good and easy to apply to my life so i can honestly say im a satanist. Theistic satanists take it a step further by embodying these thoughts and code into a real deity and religion.
I have much more information if youre interested, but i thought id just catch you up.
Ah I see I still maintain that theistic satanism is wrong. but what you described philosophical satanism is alright. Though you may want to consider a name change it lends its self to a very nasty miss conceptions. And I'm not going to address you comments about god I'm tired of explaining the bible and the way it's written.
Even satan from theistic satanism is not actually satan. And why should we change our name? Satan precedes Christianity. You took it from us, or rather, Sanskrit 2000 years ago, not the other way around.
And yeah, vainly trying to explain a text that is fundamentally wrong must get trying. Especially when you hipocritical key claim that it's not supposed to be taken literally in CERTAIN parts while actually believing literally in others.
Okay that last point what's me excepting you're argument and admitting to miss understanding the title I was trying to end my part in the debate RESPECTFULLY you don't need to be a frekken ASS IN RETURN.
No no I was confused as to the target of the debate. I was arguing that THEISTIC satanism was wrong and you where arguing that PHILOSOPHICAL SATANISM was moral we were arguing about 2 different things and I was unaware of that. Once you explained the difference (wich you should have just done in the first place) I said "okay that's what he's talking about well I don't have any qualms with that so sorry for the miss understanding" you see my position is still the same theistic satanism is immoral but I don't really mind philosophical satanism all that much. Never really did. The title screwed me up.
Well not to badger but you shouldve looked at it as a whole instead of one part of it. And the debate is about theistic. And philosophical. And laveyan. It's about everything and anything under the topic of satanism.
im making the argument now that theistic isnt bad as you say. Im just saying anything about it you may think is immoral or bad is only opinion and in reality it's no more evil than any other theism including christianity.
Well I understand if your following it philosophically as in its a quest for knowleg thing. But to worship and I mean actually worship the embodiment of pure evil no I'm sorry you will never convince me of the morality of that nor will you ever convince me that god is evil? I have no clue what laveyan satanism is though
Theistic satanists dont worship the satan of the bible. Understand that. Satan to them is like god to you. Satan is just what they call him because it branched from the Sanskrit root. He is the embodiment of knowledge, peace, spirituality, balance, ect. To them of course. There is nothing evil about satanism theistic or otherwise. You're letting your own religion shape your opinions about another which in reality is entirely separate from your own.
Laveyan satanism was started by Anton Szandor LaVey in the 1980sish I think. It was a small church that was atheistic satanists but they used satan as a symbol. He wrote a bible and it has all its own teachings. Some of which are a little immoral but they are just realistic. It's kind of selfish but not bad. You can find more info pretty much anywhere. Wikipedia is probably best.
Your also reading about cults, not the normal religin itself. Christanity has had crusades that murdered thousands of people, thats immoral. Satanic religons have yet to comit to large genocides. Your baseing an entire religon off of a very, very small section of it. Btw all religons have radicals that preform messed up things
