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Debate Info

16
28
For School Prayer Oppose School Prayer
Debate Score:44
Arguments:38
Total Votes:52
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 For School Prayer (14)
 
 Oppose School Prayer (24)

Debate Creator

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School Prayer Debate: AP Government 2014

Using CreateDebate.com link below, create two teams: 1) those opposed to school prayer in school and 2) those that support it. Both teams should consider "How far should the 1st Amendment go in protecting the right for students to pray in school? What should be considered prayer in school? Does reciting the Pledge of Allegiance and the statement "under God" fall under this category?". Each student needs to have two thoughtful 150+ word original responses on their corresponding side and two reflections to the opposing side (50+ words) for a total of 4 posts. Be sure to include your first name in your posts so I can decipher all the posts to award credit. Post below if you have any questions. 

For School Prayer

Side Score: 16
VS.

Oppose School Prayer

Side Score: 28
1 point

Forcing school prayer is one thing, but not allowing it completely is also another. For example, if a student got in trouble for praying before a meal, their rights are being violated. Or another example, religious clubs. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with a club supporting a certain religion as long as the kids that join volunteered and weren't forced by the school to attend.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. While it's obvious that schools cannot force a student to pray or agree with a certain religion, students should be able to form groups that they voluntarily join if they want to discuss their religion. An example is that our school has the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, a religious group that is not mandatory for all athletes.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

I think that students should be able to pray in school, but as far the school having a school prayer no. This is should be more for private schools because everyone in that school will or should have some association with that religion and that church. But, school prayer could offend someone who doesn’t particular believe what the prayer is saying.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

i agree with your statement that students should be able to pray in school. As long as it's a personal prayer, and not a school wide event, it shouldn't matter. Not only would this be going against the Constitution, but perhaps this could cause some discrimination against other religions in the school if they didn't participate in a group prayer.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

I agree that students should be allowed in school and that the school itself should not endorse anything religious. If the activity is student led like a club or individual it should be allowed and not looked down up since the whole purpose of the court cases were to let individual students choose what and what not to believe.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

Regarding the “one nation under God” part in the Pledge of Allegiance, I don’t think that has anything to do with the school. I think that has to do with the state and it’s requirements on that. I think we should say the Pledge of Allegiance because it’s just that, an allegiance. Even though it has the “under God” part, it’s about being loyal to your country.

Side: For School Prayer
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

Arguably, one ought not be forced to choose between their country and their personal values. Someone can be polytheistic, agnostic, or atheist and still support their country. The two are not mutually exclusive, a reality that should be recognized in a nation like the US which prides itself on freedom of belief and liberty of expression. Refusing to recite "one nation under God" is not anti-American... it is the epitome of the values this country claims to care about.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

What would you say to the argument that since the court outlawed prayer, the nation has been in steady moral decline? Former Secretary of Education William Bennett revealed in his cultural indexes that between 1960 and 1990 there was a steady moral decline. During this period divorce double, teenage pregnancy went up 200%, teen suicide increased 300%, child abuse reached an all-time high, violent crime went up 500% and abortion increased 1000%. There is a strong correlation between the expulsion of prayer from our schools and the decline in morality.

Side: For School Prayer
Jace(5222) Disputed
1 point

I would say: source citation, please. Correlation is not causation. I have never seen any actual evidence that the indicators you mention and the outlawing of mandatory recitation of prayer (students can still pray of their own volition if they like) are causally linked.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Congress has prayed at the opening of every session since the very beginning. Indeed, in a moment of crisis at the very first Continental Congress Benjamin Franklin urged prayer and observed:

"In the beginning of the Contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible to danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection. - Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered... And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? ...I therefore beg leave to move - that henceforth prayer imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."

Congress has begun with prayer ever since. If the government can pray in their session, why can't the governed pray in their (school) sessions?

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

The First Amendment does not separate God and government but actually encourages religion. It reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

The first clause merely declares that the federal government cannot establish one religion for all the people. It says nothing about "separation of church and state." In fact, five of the 13 states that ratified it had their own state religions at the time. The second clause insists that the government should do nothing to discourage religion. But forbidding prayer in schools discourages religion.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

I don't believe in forcing every person in a school to praise a certain religion nor the same one, but what I do believe is that if someone believes in a certain religion then they should practice it in which ever way that they want. They shouldn’t be told that they can’t practice their religion because that is going against their rights.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

Students usually learn religion since they are really little and mostly from their parents. It is in the constitution that we got a freedom of religion. It wouldn't be fare to not allow religion at school, because that is going against their rights just to satisfy others. I think that they they should come up with a way to meet the needs of both so that neither of them is getting their rights taken away.

Side: For School Prayer
1 point

Students shouldn't have to feel worried about whether or not they'll be persecuted if they practice their right to pray. The school would be overstepping its boundaries if it ordered students not to pray, however state-funded schools also cannot force the students to pray. This rule may not apply to private schools, who can support a religion, like Catholic schools. The students should also have the right to assemble in the name of their religion, but no one can force them to go. Teachers shouldn't support religion, however it can be taught. I think that prayer in school is fine and that it cannot be prohibited, but it also cannot be forced upon the students to pray, or read a religious text, or to acknowledge a certain deity or belief. As long as the beliefs of teh student aren’t being infringed upon.

Side: For School Prayer
0 points

I feel like students should be able to pray on their own accord, with no one forcing them to do it. I believe that once the teachers or faculty force them to pray, that rights are being violated as states by the First Amendment. However, if the faculty states that they cannot pray on school campus and when it doesn't distract other students, then their rights are again being violated. It's all about the student's freedom to pray or not to pray. And students should be given the choice to say "under god" when saying the pledge, or for that matter, saying the pledge at all. The first amendment gives people freedom of and from religion, meaning it can't be forced on anyone, nor can it be taken away from anyone, in any setting, schools included.

Side: For School Prayer
2 points

Thats exactly what the law is. Students can do whatever they want in the privacy of their own heads, they can bring their holy books to school and read them, they can even get together and have after school prayer groups. The only thing that is not allowed is teacher run/school mandated prayer in public schools. That violates the establishment clause of the first amendment as public schools are technically government institutions.

Side: For School Prayer
jackzzz(3) Disputed
1 point

While I agree with your argument, it really isn't in favor of mandatory religious practicing in schools. Students should be allowed to practice what they want, but should not have any one religion pressed on them by the school. School religious organizations should remain present but shouldn't pressure students to practice with them.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
2 points

The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion". This is shown in the case Engel v. Vitale, which ruled that "The First Amendment was added to the Constitution to stand as a guarantee that neither the power nor the prestige of the Federal Government would be used to control, support, or influence the kids of prayer the American people can say...”. Not only does this show that the Constitution opposes school prayer, but it encourages the freedom of one's own religion. Personally, I believe that if an individual wants or feels obligated to pray, they should be able to do so when they want to. I do not, however, believe that administrators should encourage or lead students in prayer. It would lead to isolation in the other students that don't believe in that certain religion. This would be a direct violation of the First Amendment.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

I do not have a problem with people practicing their religion in what ever way they feel necessary; that is why many people came to this country in the first place. So, if by "prayer in school" you mean, "people praying before they eat during lunch as individuals, or as a group," I have no problem with prayer in school. However, the problem is that often times "prayer in school" means, "structured prayer led by a teacher or school administrator." Therein lies my problem.

Under the 1st Amendment, while the individual is guaranteed religious freedom, the government is not to establish a state religion (or, implicitly, favor one religion over the other). Since many of our schools are public schools, and the teachers and administrators are government employees, it would be a violation of the 1st Amendment to lead a prayer because not everyone in the world prays the same way, nor do they worship the same God/gods.

So, I do not oppose the right of the individual student to pray during school, but I do oppose public school employees leading prayers because it violates the same 1st Amendment that protects the individual's right to practice their religion however they want.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

I have no opposition to people expressing their own religion on their own time, but I feel that during school we need to respect that some people will feel uncomfortable or alienated by prayer in school. In order to stop such alienation and controversy I feel that people should just be content with practicing religion at home, and wait until after school till praying. Some have argued to me that people should be able to pray over lunch, and within their own group of friends, and I do not dispute that this makes since. If everyone in a group is completely comfortable enough to pray together at school I am all for it, but on the other hand I feel that asking a large public or other group of people to join you in prayer is wrong because maybe they don't practice the way that you do, or they may be just generally uncomfortable with the situation and force themselves to participate without actually meaning what they say.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

The First Amendment specifically protects the people against a government-regulated or enforced religion. At the most basic level, this means that the government cannot force the people into a new religion or force them to an already existing religion. The debate over how far the First Amendment goes has been disputed over many years. The amendment should discourage prayer. Prayer should be considered anything that is calling to a higher power, as in prayer before football games or graduation ceremonies. Even if you specifically say that those who do not want to pray don’t have to participate, you are still promoting a particular religion, since all other religions are not accounted for, and therefore are implied to be inferior. As for other situations that would be promoting religion, anything in a public place specifically addressing a certain religion that is not in front of a religious place (church, private religious school, etc.) should be discouraged as well. By doing so, you are also ignoring and not allowing others to express their religion, or lack of it.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

The First Amendment clearly states the freedom FROM religion to all american citizens, therefore there should not be any mandatory prayer. That said, if student want to pray that right should not be taken away from them if they do so privately. Mandatory prayer would require there to be an official religion for the nation which is specifically restricted by the constitution.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Another of one of the most debated situations in schools is the Pledge of Allegiance single two words: “under God.” While I see the historic value of the pledge and it’s particular word usage, and how it would be pretty ridiculous to completely change it years and years later, it could still be considered going against the First Amendment. “One nation, under God” gives a feeling that the whole country is supporting a singular religion, when in reality America is completely supporting free religion (to a certain extent). It’s true the country has several heated debates over just how free our expression of religion is, considering the government tends to be influenced one way or another, but we all agree that religious freedom is a positive in the country. If the pledge itself was as optional as it is supposed to be, it may not have been such a big deal. However, the basic requirement in elementary schools (typically so they show respect and learn it) and the general social pressure to say it later on makes the two words have more meaning to most people. With my definition of the First Amendment the pledge’s words do go against the amendment, however schools should seek to eliminate the pressure or requirement to say the pledge itself, since that is more of an immediate issue regarding the First Amendment.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

In the United States Constitution, he First Amendment clearly states the freedom FROM religion to all american citizens, therefore there should not be any mandatory prayer. That said, if student want to pray that right should not be taken away from them if they do so privately. Mandatory prayer would require there to be an official religion for the nation which is specifically restricted by the constitution. According to the first amendment, there can be no defined religion. Each citizen of the United States has the full right to practice religion as well as the right to abstain from practicing. American PUBLIC schools should not have the right to force students to practice any form of religion as it is unconstitutional and unethical in modern society. However, religious clubs and organizations should have the right to practice so as long as the do not make an unnecessary impression on non-practicing students with no interest in doing so.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

There's nothing wrong with praying, but it is wrong if you're forcing prayer in school. School isn't a church, and it's not a place for encouraging religious practices because everyone has their own beliefs or religious views. As far as protecting the rights for students to pray in school, I see an exception to praying before a meal or something along those lines if that's someone's choice. But if the school were forcing every child to pray before a meal, then yes that would be a problem. Enforcing school prayer in school is also considered unconstitutional. In the 1st amendment, notice it says freedom from religion. Not freedom of religion. Meaning that yes, you're entitled to your own beliefs, but also that no one in the government can tell you "you have to believe in this religion and that religion". Therefore, requiring a public school and kids that attend it to pray, goes against their basic rights.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Another reason I believe that we should not allow prayer in school is that it would be promoting one and discouraging the other. I feel that I speak to that is for prayer in school, they are only for prayer of their own religion. I understand that this is what people believe but according the the constitution a government cannot promote a religion, and I feel that school systems need to follow this same basic outline. I'm not saying that everyone would be like this, but people need to see the conflict that could arise if prayer was allowed in school, but everyone looked down on or berated one child's religion as inferior but boosted another as right. I feel that stopping to think about the consequences and understanding every possible scenario, not just what come out of it for one religion, is what people need to do in order to see that school prayer would not allow for equality, and therefore is strictly unconstitutional.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

I personally do not mind religion nor what they practice, but not everyone is that way. To have such a sudden change in school and have people practice their religion in it would most likely have a lot of conflicts and issues. In todays world there is a lot of people with different religious backgrounds and beliefs and not everyone is on the same page. The fact that if this were to be legal would cause even more arguments and fights than what we already have today. Most of the wars started today and even back then were because of religious beliefs and if it already affects the world and the war then why would we start it at schools and cause more problems. On other words we already have enough war and fights over this so why make it even bigger than what it already is. Especially for us in the U.S. who are fighting different countries about this. All this is going to do is start a war in our own country.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

While I personally dont disagree with religious practice in school, many people do not share my neutrality. Some believe that no religion should ever be practiced in a school, while i believe that is absurd, I don't think any one religion should be pressed upon the entire student body. Obviously i believe mandatory religion should apply to private schools that are centralized around religious principles, like catholic schools, but not public schools. Many people think that without mandatory school prayer they can't practice their beliefs in school. They do have the right and it was never taken away from them. There is no reason that they should force their opinions and beliefs on the people around them but they can practice individually what they see fit. No two people are the same, different people uphold different beliefs that cater toward them. Nobody should have to change their beliefs for another and no one should expect people to change their beliefs for themselves.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

I concur with the decision made on Engel v. Vitale concerning school prayer. We must let younger students decide for themselves the religion that they want to believe in and not force or subject other students to certain religions they don't want to believe in. The First Amendment was created to free people from religion and not to "to control, support, or influence" the people of the United State of America towards any one religion. Throughout history, other court cases concerning religion and the schools had many grey areas as nothing is black and white when it comes to the opinions of people. Although religion should not be endorsed in school prayer, we must also make sure that their free speech isn't hindered either.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Regarding the subject of prayer in school, some people believe that the Pledge of Allegiance also ties in with that. In the Pledge of Allegiance, there is a bit that says "one nation under God" and there is debate on whether that is considered praying in school because it mentions God. But the Pledge of Allegiance's purpose was not for religious reasons when it was written. Saying the Pledge every morning is to honor our flag and a way of expressing our appreciation for our country. Reciting the Pledge isn't technically forced, but if you don't say it or at least stand up with your right hand over your heart, it is considered highly disrespectful. In the Pledge, it refrains from advocating a specific religion. It doesn't say "under a God that you have to believe in". So I do not believe that the Pledge of Allegiance has anything to do with school prayer or any religious affiliation.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

I believe that student should be able to pray in school. Not saying that it should be required of students or teachers to prayer or anything, but if a student wants to pray before a meal that should be allowed. The first amendment gives the right for the people to practice whatever religion they might follow, so why shouldn't an individual be allowed to do this express their religion in school? As far a school prayer, I do not think a public school should associate with any type of religion just so it doesn't seem like favoritism towards one or the other. Schools should allow students to express any type of religion they want whether that’s with prayer or with a group otherwise it violates the peoples rights. As long as their expression is not disrupted to the instruction in the classroom, then students should be allowed to pray in school.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

In my opinion, I believe that school prayer is when a group of students from the same religion pray together. If an administrator were to encourage the prayer or the belief of a religion then it would be obviously against the law, but it could also potentially lead to tensions between the educators and students of the school as occasionally different religions clash. The famous line "One nation under God" is a controversial one, as the Supreme Court has heard multiple cases on the issue of requiring or promoting the Pledge of Allegiance. This is vexed because if it is claimed that the government required the phrase, then it would violate the Establishment Clause that is in the First Amendment. I believe that the phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance isn't promoting religion, it could just be the fact that we as a country haven't altered it in over 50 years.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Another reason why I don’t believe that a school should have school prayer because it takes away from school time. They are days that students can practice their religion and students can even practice their religion after school. Everyone has different views and values and having to force students to confide in one religion is unconstitutional. Also it cause conflict between students because of these different views, which could disrupt instructional time and distract students in their school work. Yes students should be allowed to practice their religion, individually, but the school as a whole should not have anything to do with religion unless the school is a private school. Regarding the case Engel v. Vitale, where the Supreme Court ruled that requiring public school students to practice a school prayer is unconstitutional. So we’ve already seen that if a school has anything to do with religion that it violates the people rights and that schools shouldn’t have school prayer.

Side: Oppose School Prayer

Even when I was a Christian I opposed to this. You can't force religion on people. Or brainwash them into it.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

In my opinion, I believe that school prayer is when a group of students from the same religion pray together. If an administrator were to encourage the prayer or the belief of a religion then it would be obviously against the law, but it could also potentially lead to tensions between the educators and students of the school as occasionally different religions clash. The famous line "One nation under God" is a controversial one, as the Supreme Court has heard multiple cases on the issue of requiring or promoting the Pledge of Allegiance. This is vexed because if it is claimed that the government required the phrase, then it would violate the Establishment Clause that is in the First Amendment. I believe that the phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance isn't promoting religion, it could just be the fact that we as a country haven't altered it in over 50 years.

Side: Oppose School Prayer

If a student wants to pray privately during school time, they have that right. My problem is with institutionalized religion.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
1 point

Peoples religion is bad what so ever, but the school shouldn't force it because not everyone is the same. Teachers might argue with students and have problems with this because they might want everyone to study and praise their religion and this could lead to other things such as favoritism to some and hatred towards others. The U.S. isn't taking their rights away from them because they have churches for each religion and people choose to go there and that is where they praise the same thing with people that believe the same things. Schools shouldn't force religion at school also because every single day there is going to be people disagreeing and they are going to be more focused on religion than on their studies. Also to have such a quick and drastic change will cause people acting strange and all because they are not necessarily use to other peoples religion.

Side: Oppose School Prayer
0 points

People praise the lord in all sorts of ways. Although I believe in the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression, I as an individual oppose and would vote against (if I voted) a bill to have this be legal. People are not ready to deal with other people praying in their way, if it is different than the way they pray.

Side: Oppose School Prayer