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Why not? There are several reasons to suggest that your God is not only not good, but a complete and utter cuntbucket. The first of these is his outlandish punishments. For committing a finite crime, one is given infinite punishment. Anybody who's brain has not fallen out their head can see the flaw in this. A being that implements this punishment is not good, in fact they're not even finitely evil; they're infinitely evil. The existence of Hell in Christianity disproves that God is good. The second reason is God's total inaction in our world concerning evil. When an innocent child dies of starvation or thirst or disease; where is God to stop it? The third reason leads from this: natural evil. Why has God created a world full of death and destruction that is out of our control. Why do we live in a world of earthquakes,hurricanes and volcanoes that can take our lives by the thousands in seconds? Finally, there is the Biblical evil that God commands? How are we supposed to believe that a homophobic, racist, xenophobic, childish, genocidal, infanticidal, sexist, petulant, murderous, barbaric being that commands the deaths of millions of people, can be good? I await your answer to these questions.
297 days ago | Side: No, God is not
First, I haven't told you a damn thing about my god, So all your comments are about a god you imagine. You tell blatant lies about the God of your understanding, saying he has behaved in ways that only utter cuntbuckets would suppose. You share beliefs about god with some pretty serious idiots from what I can tell. I would say that you have jumped to some pretty stupid conclusions about god based on what you have typed so far. God is love, THE philosophical first principle. Let's start from there.
297 days ago | Side: God is good
First, I haven't told you a damn thing about my god, So all your comments are about a god you imagine. I don't need you to, you worship the Christian God. You tell blatant lies about the God of your understanding, saying he has behaved in ways that only utter cuntbuckets would suppose. Prove that anything I said was a lie. You share beliefs about god with some pretty serious idiots from what I can tell Inverse argument from authority. God is love, THE philosophical first principle. Let's start from there. No, we can't start from there. That would be begging the question. You can't prove God is good by making the first premise God is love. If you do not answer my questions, or make an argument of your own, I fear that you will not get very far in this debate.
297 days ago | Side: No, God is not
I don't need you to, you worship the Christian God. You have already clearly expressed your belief that there is a "Christian" God, otherwise how could you know that I worship him. What does it mean to worship? Prove that anything I said was a lie. Is it not dishonest to discuss the behavior of someone who you believe doesn't exist? Inverse argument from authority. I was merely pointing out that you are acting as if all the worst things you have read in the bible about god are true. You are hiding the fact that you believe that none of these things are true - Dishonest person! No, we can't start from there. That would be begging the question. You can't prove God is good by making the first premise God is love. Very well then Do you accept the premise "We can be aware of truths about God"? You seem to be already working from that premise. If you do not answer my questions, or make an argument of your own, I fear that you will not get very far in this debate. Wonderful..... lets answer each others questions then shall we? (below I answer ALL your questions, and I challenge you to reciprocate) Why not? Perhaps you have something more important to do. When an innocent child dies of starvation or thirst or disease; where is God to stop it? Tending to her soul Why has God created a world full of death and destruction that is out of our control. It only appears full of these things if you are blind to beauty, and there is also plenty within our control. Why do we live in a world of earthquakes,hurricanes and volcanoes that can take our lives by the thousands in seconds? Even you will admit that God is not to blame for the danger we are in. Finally, there is the Biblical evil that God commands? There are stories written in a book How are we supposed to believe that a homophobic, racist, xenophobic, childish, genocidal, infanticidal, sexist, petulant, murderous, barbaric being that commands the deaths of millions of people, can be good? Same way we are supposed to believe we as humans can be good. Why do you view god in that way, if it isn't because YOU BELIEVE all the worst stories about god then why?
296 days ago | Side: God is good
You have already clearly expressed your belief that there is a "Christian" God, otherwise how could you know that I worship him. What does it mean to worship? No, I just used empirical evidence. Your profile picture is of a cross, your political position is republican, and your name is spiritualman. Based on these facts, it would not be misguided to conclude that you worship the Christian God. Is it not dishonest to discuss the behavior of someone who you believe doesn't exist? No, not when there are others who believe he does. I was merely pointing out that you are acting as if all the worst things you have read in the bible about god are true. You are hiding the fact that you believe that none of these things are true Of course I don't believe they're true. I don't believe 99% of the Bible ever happened. This whole debate is based on a presupposition; that the God of the bible exists. If it were not, it would be a meaningless debate. Dishonest person! Oh snap Very well then Do you accept the premise "We can be aware of truths about God"? You seem to be already working from that premise. Yes, I accept that premise. I also pose the premise that God is omnibenevolent, that is, infinitely good. Perhaps you have something more important to do. To be fair, that was a rhetorical question. Tending to her soul So this girl is being tendered for? It only appears full of these things if you are blind to beauty, and there is also plenty within our control. Beauty is subjective; death is not. What is within our control is irrelevant, the point is that there are things out of our control that should not exist under an omnibenevolent being. Even you will admit that God is not to blame for the danger we are in. No I won't. A truly omnibenevolent God would not sit by and watch as natural disasters ravage our precarious position, on this tiny rock in a hostile universe. By the way, have you heard of Apophis? Should be interesting to see how God will be good if he fails to stop it exterminating billions. There are stories written in a book Do you not believe in the Biblical stories? Same way we are supposed to believe we as humans can be good Humans are not supposed to be omnibenevolent; God is. Why do you view god in that way, if it isn't because YOU BELIEVE all the worst stories about god then why? Again, I don't view God in any way, as I don't believe he exists. But, based on the presupposition that he does exist, I think it would be fair to conclude that he is quite the bastard.
296 days ago | Side: No, God is not
Since you didn't answer a number of my questions, I will respond in kind and disregard much of what you wrote up until this point. I think we should establish premises first and see how many we can agree on So I believe we have these 2 so far. 1. We can be aware of truths about God 2. Many people believe God exists - I wonder if you would accept: "The god of the bible exists and shouldn't be worshiped" - or how about "reality is infinite"? We should discuss omniscience, omnipotence, and omni-benevolence, because depending on how these words are interpreted I believe they do describe my god.
296 days ago | Side: God is good
Since you didn't answer a number of my questions, I will respond in kind and disregard much of what you wrote up until this point. Wtf? I answered all of your points, you only asked 2 questions. I couldn't have made that long a response if I hadn't addressed them. This is poor debate etiquette, and I advise you to read in the future. 1. We can be aware of truths about God Yes, I accept. 2. Many people believe God exists I accept. wonder if you would accept: "The god of the bible exists and shouldn't be worshiped" - For the sake of this debate, yes. or how about "reality is infinite"? I don't accept. We should discuss omniscience, omnipotence, and omni-benevolence, because depending on how these words are interpreted I believe they do describe my god. OK. Omniscience: All knowledge. Omnipotent: All power. Omnibenevolence: All good. Need I say more?
296 days ago | Side: No, God is not
I'd absolutely rather not bicker. The truth is reflected well enough above about issues of ettiquette and what questions were left unanswered. Frankly I am exited that you appear concerned about debate etiquette and willing to take the time to work out shared premises. So how about this. If there is a question that either of us would particularly like answered we can put a "<" after it like so?< Omniscience: All knowledge. If you consider every living being who has knowledge as a class of things that are, is this class of beings omniscient according to your definition?< Omnipotent: All power. If power is regarded as the ability to consciously affect or manipulate things, and you consider every living being who has this ability to do so, as a class of things that are, is this class of beings omnipotent according to your definition?< Omnibenevolence: All good. If a being exists who has no ill intent is this being omnibenevolent by your definition?<
296 days ago | Side: God is good
If you consider every living being who has knowledge as a class of things that are, is this class of beings omniscient according to your definition?< No. An omniscient being would have all knowledge. If power is regarded as the ability to consciously affect or manipulate things, and you consider every living being who has this ability to do so, as a class of things that are, is this class of beings omnipotent according to your definition?< No. An omnipotent being would have all power. If a being exists who has no ill intent is this being omnibenevolent by your definition?< No. An omniscient being would be all good. I would rather this didn't descend into a semantics debate, so I propose we accept the definitions put forth by Merriam Webster; they are as follows. Omnipotence: an agency or force of unlimited power Omniscience: having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight Omnibenevolence: Taking the meaning of benevolence, (disposition to do good), then omnibenevolence would mean disposition to do infinite good. If we accept these definitions, then we can move on to the actual debate. I have 4 key points then. 1. Why does God give infinite punishment for finite sin, in the form of Hell? 2. Why is God completely inactive in preventing evil in the world? 3. Why does God put us at risk of natural evil, ie, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. 4. Why is there so much evil in the Bible?
296 days ago | Side: No, God is not
No. An omniscient being would have all knowledge. The class of beings I described are in possesion of all knowledge are they not?< The same is true analogously about omnipotence. I would rather this didn't descend into a semantics debate Translation, I would prefer that we not do any rigorous or deep thinking here about the words we are using. ~Not surprising! I propose we accept the definitions put forth by Merriam Webster; they are as follows. Omnipotence: an agency or force of unlimited power Omniscience: having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight Omnibenevolence: Taking the meaning of benevolence, (disposition to do good), then omnibenevolence would mean disposition to do infinite good. But you wouldn't accept the premise that reality was infinite so how can you accept these definitions?<
296 days ago | Side: God is good
The class of beings I described are in possesion of all knowledge are they not?< The same is true analogously about omnipotence. Please refer to Merriam Webster. Translation, I would prefer that we not do any rigorous or deep thinking here about the words we are using. ~Not surprising! Spoken like a true theist. Avoid all hard points, and bitch about semantics for the entire debate. Either address the 4 points below or don't, I won't bother responding if you choose the latter. But you wouldn't accept the premise that reality was infinite so how can you accept these definitions?< Because God isn't part of reality for me. But, for the sake of debate, I shall accept. Now, address the 4 points in my previous argument.
296 days ago | Side: No, God is not
Please refer to Merriam Webster. I have looked at those records and found them inadequate. Spoken like a true theist. Avoid all hard points, and bitch about semantics for the entire debate. You have presented no hard points in your effort to argue against a strawman. You are the one who bitched about semantics, and you were the one who fell back on..."I am going by what's in the book, if you want to know what I think, look in the book" Either address the 4 points below or don't, I won't bother responding if you choose the latter. If someone shrinks from a challenge it will be clear who :) Because God isn't part of reality for me. No one can escape the influence of the prevailing ideology my friend. Besides why can't you believe reality is infinite while maintaining atheism?< But, for the sake of debate, I shall accept. Shift of position #1 :) Since this is going to mean more work for me now, I think you should have to post the updated list of the premises we've accepted so far for this debate< Oh I almost forgot to Address all the hard points in these razor sharp questions! 1. Why does God give infinite punishment for finite sin, in the form of Hell? I don't believe god does Why is God completely inactive in preventing evil in the world? I don't believe god is Why does God put us at risk of natural evil, ie, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. I don't believe god does Why is there so much evil in the Bible? Do you mean why are there so many references to evil in the bible? Oh and you might check our established premise regarding "the god of the bible"
296 days ago | Side: God is good
I have looked at those records and found them inadequate. I trust their definitions above mine or yours. You have presented no hard points in your effort to argue against a strawman. You are the one who bitched about semantics, and you were the one who fell back on..."I am going by what's in the book, if you want to know what I think, look in the book" I'm not talking about semantics anymore. Besides why can't you believe reality is infinite while maintaining atheism?< No foundation for it. Shift of position #1 If by that you mean, "presupposition for the sake of debate", then yes. I think you should have to post the updated list of the premises we've accepted so far for this debate< I don't give a crap about the premises. I don't believe god does So you don't believe in Hell? I don't believe god is So God does prevent evil? I don't believe god does So these things don't happen? Do you mean why are there so many references to evil in the bible? Oh and you might check our established premise regarding "the god of the bible" No, I mean for example, why does God demand the brutal slaughter of children who cheek their parents, among other things?
296 days ago | Side: No, God is not
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