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"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink,h or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice."
Don't let him get you, that guy is probably not even saved, probably dead in his sin and on his way to Hell.....just knows enough Bible to take things out of context and twist them into excuses for his own sin.
That passage in Deut. was a command from God for a one time holiday for rejoicing in what God had done in delivering the children of Israel out of the bondage of Egypt. It was God's Law for one day, and only one day, specific and limited clearly. It was obedience to God, not forced on any individual other than that the whole day was to be a holy day for the Lord. That is the only time in the Bible that alcohol was ever condoned by God. People today want to drink because they feel like it on their own accord, and it's not in obedience to God...it's self-centered indulgence and the Bible is against it. Don't let ungodly people and worldly Christians talk you into compromising on holiness. God calls us to be holy in every manner of conversation, in every way we conduct ourselves we are called to serve God now as we will serve Him forever in Heaven with all of His blessings and unspeakable joy in the light of His glory and love.
You are a poser; you have no idea who JC is, do you? He died for your sins, sinner. So be grateful for the blessing he has already conferred on you, ingrate.
Does that mean that we can't celebrate unless God gives the go ahead? Or does it mean that when we celebrate, we should do it as God prescribes? which is with booze
Are you dense? Can't you read the Bible for yourself? The stupid questions you are asking were answered by me already. The celebration you want is self-centered, ungodly, unholy, and if you want to do it, go ahead. The law of the land today allows you to be an idiot and ask stupid questions all day long.
You answered the question incorrectly. The very fact that you disagree with me even though I'm right means there is nothing you can say that is correct. If the model of refutation that I am using seems unreasonable, consider the log in your eye.
You don't know what you are talking about. You just want to have a bear, so go ahead and have one, it's within the law of the land....but don't try to tell me you are serving God when you are sucking the suds
Apparently your reading and comprehension skills are on the level of an underdeveloped intellect, so I'll repeat the post you seem to be answering without paying attention to what you responded to. Maybe if you read it three or four times after asking your stupid questions, you will figure out the answer.
"That was a one time celebration after the Lord brought the Jews out of captivity in Egypt. It is not an excuse for drinking today."
Have you ever read the Bible? I mean cover to cover? Have you ever even read one of the 66 books of the Bible, even the smallest one? Do you even know what the shortest book of the Bible is? It's a powerful little Hell fire and brimstone against sin preaching letter.
This is why I think you are smoking dope...you sound so stupid pretending to know what you are talking about when saying the dumbest things, and you say it all with a high-on attitude of being above it all.
My only actual dispute with you is that you present almost nothing to back your assertions and when you finally do present something it only fits your arguement if one adopts a specific, narrow, and incorrect interpretation.
Money can't buy eternal life, It's just a means by which man establishes a home. I remember there was a saying. It is better for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. That's why things bought with money in the world can't bring anything to heaven. People are born with nothing, and they don't take anything when they die. that's the rule
God will be the final say on things we choose to do in this life. The Bible is vague on having a drink. It speaks to drinking wine, but does tell us that getting drunk is wrong. I personally believe if a person drinks a beer and does not get tipsy or drunk, I see no problem with that.
I personally don't drink for many reasons..... the cost of it, the risk of having a car accident and having blood alcohol levels showing I had a drink even though I was not drunk, the risk of becoming an alcoholic, etc., etc.
I will not judge others for having a drink but do consider getting drunk a serious problem in our culture from all the harm done by drunks.
What this argument shows us, as I already knew, is that those on the Left who support gun control are such total hypocrites! They scream at the mere suggestion of banning alcohol, but have no problem with never ending gun control laws with the express purpose of someday banning guns.
Alcohol kills more people than guns and you seldom hear a peep out of the gun control Progressives.
Using the same logic from Progressives, we could save lives by banning nightclubs, bars, etc.
We could have back ground checks on a person before allowing him to have a drink in Bars. We could have background checks to prevent crazy people from having a drink, etc. etc.
Do you control fanatics get it? Nahhhhh, you will keep going after guns while enjoying your drink.
The Bible is clearly against indulgence in intoxication, it's unholy. God calls His people to be holy like Jesus. We are not even supposed to look at fermented wine, have no desire for it. This kind of wishy-washy attitude toward selfish and unholy indulgences is a large part of why Christians are no longer respected as admirable moral leaders who are appreciated and imitated for their strong stands and excellent contribution to society.
It's not hard to find. If you want to know, look it up yourself. Just stick with the King James Bible, modern fake "versions" change doctrines around in thousands of places in the Bible and are not to be trusted.
If I tell you that the bible clearly supports drinking in moderation, it would be lazy for me to tell you to look it up, even though I'm not your baby sitter.
If you're of the opinion that the above verses reference strong drink and grape juice; consider how nonsensical it is that Paul warns the Ephesians “Do not get drunk with grape juice".
Furthermore, I would consider the fact that famous Christians like Martin Luther and John Calvin drank. I trust their knowledge of scripture.
Just because Martin Luther and John Calvin drank, that does not make it right. John Calvin ruled Geneva by brutal dictatorship as he was a Protestant and by an iron fist he kept the Catholics out of his little kingdom. Both Luther and Calvin forced obedience to their sects by torture.
They both did great things in resisting the Catholic Church, and shaping the world in many ways as it progressed to what it is today (a bigger mess, but with better technology and more powerful weapons) but they both did things that were against Bible teaching, and if they both drank, then they both did it against what the Bible says about it. You can't really blame them since they came out of Catholicism where drunkenness among priests and leaders has always been widespread as Catholic dogma uses fermented, alcoholic wine in it's communion services. Fermentation in the Bible is always figurative for sin. "A little leavening (fermentation) leavens the whole lump.. The wine which Jesus used as representative of His blood was sinless, not fermented, like His sinless blood, there was no alcohol in it. As He was hanging on the cross, they offered Him vinegar as a pain killer, He refused. Vinegar is fermented, it pictures sin, and Jesus would not have it in Him. As I said earlier to another person, Jesus said we are supposed to deny ourselves, and take up our crossed daily, and follow Him. God wants us to be holy. Jesus did not say, "If you want to be my disciple, indulge yourself and take up a beer daily, and follow me".
You are arguing for self-indulgence in alcohol, you are arguing for self-centered actions, and it's not Christian and not supported by the Bible no matter how you try to twist things around.
I don't know if you are saved or not, I don't know if you are sure your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven, but it's obvious by the way you argue that you are not living in obedience to the faith of God, not denying yourself daily and carrying your cross to follow Jesus.
Let me ask you this: If you die today, are you sure, with no doubt, that your sins are forgiven and you will be with the Lord in Heaven immediately after your last breath?
Let me ask you this: If you die today, are you sure, with no doubt, that your sins are forgiven and you will be with the Lord in Heaven immediately after your last breath?
I would not have to look it up. If you tell me the Bible clearly supports drinking in moderation, then I know you do not know the Bible very well. I know the passages you would use, and I know the passages that prove you would be wrong.
You can find them all yourself easily if you want to. I learned it all by hard work long before the internet was invented. Now, it's at your fingertips. If you want the answer, you will find it. If you don't want the answer, you will ask stupid questions and try to get me to waste my time giving you the answer. When people have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell, I don't want to be wasting time.
Clearly you don't have the love of God in your heart. I'm glad we had this little exchange. I can now discount everything you say as you are no true Scotsman. I already know you are wrong though the devil that has put a log in your eye will never let you see it. Debate is so much easier when we don't actually have to argue, isn't it?
HERE YA GO, LAZYBONES.........it wasn't hard to find, as none of the passages in the Bible are hard to find thanks to the internet. I learned this stuff long before the internet was invented when it took discipline to study and remember things....but here ya go, I hope it helps and I hope you honor God's word so He can bless you abundantly beyond anything you can ask for.
We are not supposed to be around alcohol if we are Christians, have nothing to do with it, don't hang around people who indulge in any amount, stay away from it.
The Bible clearly teaches that we should not keep company with people who drink, and we should avoid drinking, not even look at it with curiosity like it's something beautiful or desirable.......and of course don't be a drunkard.
The following, for those of you who are Biblically illiterate like so many who claim to know the Bible and Christian teaching today, is one of many passages in the Bible which are against self-indulgent behavior.
PROVERBS 23......
19 Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.
25 Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice.
26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.
27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.
29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
You are not a very good reader, are you? you might want to read the passage three or four more times so maybe you'll get it. I thought it was simple enough to understand with one reading, but you have proven me wrong.
I read and understood. You obviously didn't. If you disagree with me, clearly you lack reason. I don't have to use logic to support this position, j merely need to assert that you are wrong. You are wrong on the grounds that I am right and you disagree with me.
You have your head buried in the sand which is watered down from people relieving their kidneys which are overworked by alcohol. Get your head out of the sand and try to learn something.
I think you can find that verse yourself. If you try to tell me somebody can be holy and sip alcohol at the same time, I say you don't know what being holy is.
Don't you know the Bible well enough to know where it says "look thou not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth it's color in the cup, when it stirreth itself aright". ?
The reason you don't know the passages is because you have been taught that the verses which clearly are against any self-indulgence in intoxication is because you have been taught a worldly, unholy, unbiblical view of alcohol which is abused by Christians who think they can drink and be holy at the same time.
If you are going to act like the teaching is not there, or it is ambiguous, I'm going to say you don't know your Bible well and have not been taught sound doctrine. You can find all of the passages and figure it out for yourself. I could show you, but if you are going to reject God's word demanding perfection, holiness, obedience in every word, thought, and action, then you won't care what the Bible says and you wont' care what I show you in the Bible. I should not have to show you if you know the Lord personally.
Give me the verse so I can read the entire chapter and understand the meaning. Intoxication is being drunk. I already said that getting drunk is wrong.
Why should I be mad about people like you saying stupid stuff displaying their ignorance of the Bible? It only shows you don't know the Bible well and need to learn better. God left me in this world for a purpose, and that is to represent His word. I don't claim to be His best representative, but I know what I'm here for....and it's not to have a beer and relax while people are dying and going to Hell.
Go ahead and tell people it's ok for them to drink socially, and tell them God approves...I would never say such things myself, but you are saying it so you might as well say it more...go on and say it.. That's what you want to do, that's how you operate in order to be friendly with ungodly people who drink "moderately", so go on and be a spineless sorry excuse for a disciple of Jesus Christ.
LOL, what an idiot! I asked you for the verse and you refuse. You are a joke. I never said it was ok or not ok to socially drink. I asked you for verse to prove otherwise. Let me repeat... what an idiot!
Do you have any idea what a judgementl person you are? That's a sin!!!!!!!!
Do you hve the Bible memorized? I could give you many verses in the Bible that you know not where they are. The verses you keep denying are the ones who tell you to take the log out of your own eye before worrying about the speck in another's eye. Your sin is being judgemental and lacking in humility, so spare me your pious righteousness that God says he hates. Do you know of all the verses where God speaks to judging, and pride? If you are so holy, why do you ignore those verses?
So why don't you ever demonstrate how they are being deceptive?
Instead you just declare that they are being deceptive and end it there, when in reality they are just disagreeing with you. On other occasions, they might have a detail wrong and instead of thinking that they might possibly be mistaken, you immediately assume they are lying.
You really should try to work on not immediately assuming the worst about everyone who shares different opinions.
You sound like a devil, trying to use Bible verses to disprove Bible verses. I thought you were a Christian. The word of God always supports the word of God. If you think there are contradictory teachings regarding God's holiness, and His demand that His people be holy, then there is something wrong with your thinking, the problem is not contradictions in the word of God, it's contradictions of sin in your heart.
This broken record diatribe of yours is exactly your attitude toward me only because I stand firmly on the word of God as the governance of morality. Everything you are accusing me of is exactly what you are doing toward me, but somehow the things you accuse me of are ok for you as long as you are directing it at me. You're being a perfect example of a hypocrite.
I'm not judging you and telling you that you are going to hell for your sin of being judgemental. Any particular sin does not send us to hell. We are all sinners and only faith in Christ keeps us from Hell.
You are fixated on the sin rather than the person's rejection of Christ. You will never get people to stop sinning just because of fear of Hell. They could live just as you would have them live but they will still go to Hell if they reject Christ.
Can you grasp that simple point?
It is not judging a person when you speak of your belief that having one drink is a sin, but it is a sin when you tell the person you are talking with that they will go to hell for some particular sin.
You seem like the legalistic type of Christian who says if you swear or have a drink two seconds before dieing you will go to Hell. That is legalistic garbage!
Newsflash... no one is perfect even after they follow Christ. Christ's death covered your sins today and forever.
Yes, a Christian can not live life as if it does not matter if they sin. God sees through that and knows in a person's heart that they never truly accepted Christ and it means nothing to them. It is great how strongly you feel about Christians living in a Holy way, but it is a sin to judge someone for dissagreeing when it comes to certain subjects, especially when the subject of having one drink is not clearly explained in the Bible. Even if you are correct about having one drink, and you could be correct, it is a sin to judge a person to hell for taking that one drink.
You are the one full of garbage putting words in my mouth. I will ignore most of the accusations you made based on nothing I said but rather on your own self-righteous feelings.
To say "the subject of having one drink" is not clearly explained in the Bible only shows you have no sound doctrinal teaching in your life. When people say things like that, I have to doubt that they are even saved....and they sure are not qualified to teach the Bible. The Bible specifically addresses everything we say, think, and do in every moment of our time. If you can't see that in the Bible, I really doubt you are born again.
Why should I waste time with you? You don't know where in the New Testament it says "Be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord." You can't find that yourself, and you think after you find it, you can sip alcohol and be holy. You don't care what the Bible says, all you care about is your own opinion about everything, that's all you write about.........I rarely see you pointing toward the Lord or His word, except when you take it out of context to accuse me of being "judgemental" as you judge me in your hypocrisy.
I've given enough Bible on this subject for you that if you believe the Bible you should be against alcohol intoxication in any amount at any time or place today. You don't care what the Bible says. All you care about is supporting your own opinion on things, which you think it better than the Bible.
The way you are arguing, I seriously have to wonder if you are even saved. If you die today, are you sure your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven?
Answer this first, and explain how you know for sure if you say you are sure, then I will show you all you need in the New Testament to know you should be against indulgence of intoxication of alcohol in any amount large or small.
LOL, again you refuse to give me the verses you quote as supposed evidence to your claim. Why would you refuse to show me the verse? It's obvious that there are no verses supporting your claim, or you don't want people reading the entire passage to get the true meaning. If you have some verses proving your point, I would love to read them so in the future I might help others with the same questions.
If you truly cared about people's souls, you would lovingly gladly give them the verse. But you lack that love for their salvation. You are consumed with judging people to hell rather than helping them get saved from hell.
What a hypocrite, pretending to know something about the Bible but you cannot find where in the new testament it says "Be ye holy, for I am holy", and somehow you think a Christian can be holy while they are sipping suds
LOLOL
wishy washy Christian who doesn't know why anything is right or wrong. No wonder people don't respect Christians in general
Why should I help you be lazy? Look it up yourself if you want it. I don't think you want it or you would look it up. If you want to be a lazy bone Christian who can't find a well known Bible passage, that's your problem and I can see why you make all these long winded psychological and political arguments which have next to zero reference to God's word.
How can you be sure you will go to Heaven? I thought the whole point is that nobody knows the judgement of God, particularly considering how often the Bible says that so few get in and it is so difficult to get in.
Becoming a Christain excludes a person from Hell. People know this because God says it in the Bible.
The majority of people refuse to accept Christ as Lord. They would rather live the no fault anything goes lifestyle.
The world is a tempting place and many lack the willingness to come out from the crowd. People want to be popular, to be a part of the clique, they want to fit in and be liked by the world.
You know as well as I that Christians are ridiculed for their faith. People make fun of those who do not follow the crowd. If you refuse to get drunk, join in the dirty jokes, etc., etc. you are looked at as differently.
Very young in life I noticed how people see you differently if you don't swear or act like the peer groups.
A Christian makes them feel insecure, or guilty about their own behavior so they make fun of them.
First of all, the Bible speaks to the entire world population, not just America.
Just because a person calls himself a Christian does not make it so. Hitler and the KKK call themselves Christians. God says you will know a Christian by their love.
It's not loving to support killing Babies God says he knows in the womb. It's not loving to hate a person because of the color of his skin. It's not loving to kill Jews, etc. etc.
Personally, I find the doctrine of eternal security to be utterly illogical within Christian theology, though I guess that is a conversation for a different time.
The majority of people refuse to accept Christ as Lord. They would rather live the no fault anything goes lifestyle.
The majority of people are theists, which means they believe they are responsible to the Christian God, the Muslim God, the Jewish God (intentionally distinguishing the three) or some other gods. Even those who don't believe in a god hardly believe in a "no fault" lifestyle, but that, too, is a conversation for a different time.
The world is a tempting place and many lack the willingness to come out from the crowd. People want to be popular, to be a part of the clique, they want to fit in and be liked by the world.
If they are in the Western World, the easiest way would be to become Christian. Christians make up the overwhelming majority of the Western population, after all, so non-Christians would not fit in or be "a part of the clique".
You know as well as I that Christians are ridiculed for their faith. People make fun of those who do not follow the crowd. If you refuse to get drunk, join in the dirty jokes, etc., etc. you are looked at as differently.
1. Everyone is ridiculed for their beliefs. You have ridiculed atheists for their beliefs, atheists have ridiculed you for your beliefs, etc etc. That is not unique to Christians.
2. Following the crowd would be being a Christian since, as I already pointed out, Christians make up the overwhelming majority of all people in the United States. That is why Christianity has the most positive association of any religious affiliation by far in the United States. That is why people who aren't Christian are viewed more negatively in this country.
Very young in life I noticed how people see you differently if you don't swear or act like the peer groups.
A Christian makes them feel insecure, or guilty about their own behavior so they make fun of them.
This is why few choose Christ.
First, you have no basis from which to assume that being around a Christian makes a non-Christian feel insecure. In fact, that is very rude and arrogant of you to claim such.
Second, most choose Christ in this country.
Third, statistically speaking, most people who swear in this country are Christian (simply by nature of most people being Christian), so not sure why you mentioned swearing.
You talk like an unholy angel. You make excuses for unholy ways. It does matter if you curse when you get hit by a car. You have to give account to God for every word, thought, and action in every moment of your time. You talk like you have a license to sin, and you talk like you endorse such license for others. It matters if you curse.
I don't believe you are saved. You talk with a forked tongue. If you are saved, you sure don't talk like it. You might as well go sit at the bar and be nice to people as you sip water and talk politics....and tell them it does not matter if they curse their trials, and be a good ungodly sorry excuse for a Christian.
What a shock, you just judged me to hell by saying you dont think I'm saved.
Do you have a clue how lost you truly are? You have Christianity so twisted and backwards.
I never sanctioned sin as ok. I said if a Christian curses just before dieing, he is still going to Heaven. Christ died for our sins and being perfect (which we could never be) is not what gets you to Heaven. If you know your scripture, you know that none of us are good. You want to live under the Law like in the old testament.
You are the pomp judging me. I'm simply making observations. You talk like a devil when you say "it's no big deal if you curse when you get hurt". I'm only making observations based on the things you say compared to what the Bible says. It's hard for me to understand how a person can claim to know the Lord but follow no Biblical guidelines in obedience as we are commanded to be holy. You get annoyed with me for pointing at what the Bible says. I don't want to argue with you any more. If you have a testimony for the Lord, if you can be a witness and win some souls for heaven, good for you. This is doing no good arguing with you. I should have known better when I saw you do that long pop-psychology mumbo jumbo denial of God's word declaring it's good for you to be condoning of alcoholic indulgences.
Why don't you just go to the bar like I said, and watch the football game as you sip some soda.....and talk politics with all the good Christians like yourself who are there.
You want to hold hands with your beer belly buddies, go ahead and tell them it's ok for them to drink.
Be ye perfect, for I am perfect, saith the Lord.
Be ye holy, for I am holy, saith the Lord.
God never says "tell everybody that nobody is perfect so it's ok"
you are make up your own self-centered Christianity which cares next to nothing what the Bible says...being a friend of the world, going with the flow. Wishy washy spineless lilly liver afraid to alienate too many of your associates by saying iit's wrong to be unholy.
Show me in the Bible where it says we can never be perfect. If you insist you can never be perfect.....as you said in your ungodly, unholy, and unbiblical argument....I don't think you are saved. I think you have a head knowledge of he gospel that is not coming from the heart.
We are commanded to be perfect. You are making excuses and God does not accept excuses for being a sinner. There is no excuse for sin. "I'm only human" is not an excuse for sin.
I don't think you are born again.
I don't think you are saved.
I know you teach not being holy is ok for Christians when it is not ok.
Can you brush aside the argument for a minute and give me a clear salvation testimony of when you first repented of your sin and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ? What happened to lead you to believe? I give my salvation testimony often....sometimes in longer versions than at other times, depending on the circumstances and audience......
Will you tell me your salvation testimony? I still clearly remember that moment when I first feared God, bowed my head and believed on the Lord and received Him by faith. I remember it as clearly as if it happened earlier today, and it was actually over 30 years ago, I'm 55 now. How about you? I'll be happy to give more details of how faith came by hearing, and hearing by the word of God and I was saved that day near my 22nd birthday......but I would like to hear yours. Please tell me about the time when you got saved.
You show every single day on this site how imperfect you are. You constantly judge people. That's a sin! You are a hypocrite because you choose to keep sinning every day while you tell others they must be perfect.
Yes we should all strive for perfection but there will only ever be one perfect man and it sure is not you.
It's great you are saved. Here it is 30 years later and still you have not learned to control your sin of judging people. I guess that shows how imperfect man can still be.
Show me when I said I'm perfect, and show me when I said you have to follow rules to earn salvation. You are out of touch with reality, and it's because you are obsessed with excusing unholy things.....so you cannot even acknowledge reality of God's demand to be perfect and to be holy.
I have said repeatedly that I am a sinner who deserves to burn in Hell, but somehow a person like you twists this around into pride and arrogance on my part. I make no excuses for my sin, and I make no excuses for anybody else's sin. This is the correct Biblical position for a Christian to take, and that's why I find it hard to believe you are really born of the Spirit of God.
God did not say "strive to be perfect", as if he is allowing us an excuse for falling short. When you use this kind of twisted reasoning, it is you who is believing in a religion of good works...or at least teaching it. I don't know if you really believe it or only teach it because your speech is too often double-talk, sometimes you speak of the word of God and at other times you speak as if God's word is not the authority over our conduct in everything we say, think, and do.
Paul said we are to cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing EVERY THOUGHT into captivity of Christ. That means everything we say is to be in agreement with His word, even in our thinking. "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth". When you say, errantly, that the Bible says nothing against low level indulgences of alcohol for Christians, you are taking a compromised position to be in friendship with the world and your saying corrupt things implying God doesn't much care what we do.
I notice you have declined to say anything about the time you first believed, when you were saved, when you first met the Savior personally, so once again I have to lean toward thinking you are not saved at all. "Let the redeemed of the Lord say so". I am always happy to tell of the time I first met the Lord personally because it is by far the most wonderful and amazing thing I have ever experienced and I want to tell others who do not know how they can know the same as me.
Why don't you tell me of the time you first believed and got saved? Did it happen? when?
If you steal something you are a thief and anybody with good judgement recognizes that you are doing wrong in it.
You are in league with anti-Christians when you imply it is wrong for a Christian to say sin is wrong, and it is wrong for a Christian to specifically name that sin.
You are abusing "judge not, lest ye be judged". Jesus did not imply we are not supposed to say wrong is wrong, and name the wrongs when we point them out.
John the Baptist was beheaded for naming the sins of Herod and his wife. John's judgement against that sin was not the kind of judgment Jesus was advising against when He said "judge not". You are trying to play a wishy washy non offensive kind of worldy Christianity which goes with the flow of culture rather than standing on the word of God. If the world is not hating you for your stand against sin, you are not following Jesus as He desires. Jesus said the world would hate you the same as they hated Him if you follow Him. That means they will want to kill you the same as they wanted to kill Him. When you won't separate yourself from the world to be like Jesus in His holiness, and you don't have the backbone to say indulgence in alcohol is unholy and self-centered and wrong, you are practicing a compromised form of fake Christianity which allows for all of your unbiblical psychology and long winded explanations of why you won't take a stand against unholy compromise with worldly lusts.
"For the grace of God which bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men (lost people do not have any excuse for not believing God) teaching us (the saints of God) that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.
There is no righteousness in a wishy washy self-promoting permissive speech allowing for self-gratifying indulgence in alcohol. No wonder nobody respects Christians any more. This kind of spineless go with the flow mentality permeates must churches where people claim to be Christians.
Obviously you either did not read my post or you have been drinking some suds.
I expressly made it clear that it is not judging to speak of sins but that it was judging if you call John Doe a sinner for some sin he commited. Why must you deceive people?
Is your argument so shallow that you must resort to deception?
You like to sip the suds now and then, don't you? Why don't you come out and admit it. You think the Bible has nothing to say about it, and you feel like having a beer, so why don't you just admit you are a wino?
You sound like Carpman, and because of that I'm leaning more and more toward automatically skipping over whatever you write which is my general rule for him and several others here.
Thats okay. It is more for the amusement of myself and other than to ellicit a response. I love picking out the htpocrisy in so many christians that think they are bettet than everyone else. This guy openly says that he doesnt believe in the book of revelations but he will slam people for not following every other line of the Bible. Hilarious.
I would not take your word for anything. I do not know if it is possible for a real Christian to believe they are better than anybody else. To be a real Christian, you first have to admit that you are a sinner who deserves to die and burn in Hell. That means you are bad and know it and admit it and seek God's mercy.
Your accusations of hypocrisy mean pretty much nothing to me. You don't know what you are talking about. You don't even know the name of the last book in the Bible.
There is zero possibility that I will go to Hell because God Himself paid for my sins with His own blood, rose from the dead offering forgiveness to all who believe on Him, and I have received Him as my Savior. He has has given me eternal life.
He gave His life's blood to be the covering of sin for those who trust in Him.
You can have God's forgiveness and be fully assured of having a home in Heaven with zero possibility of going to Hell. You can have full assurance in the depths of your heart, wholeheartedly know you deserve to burn in Hell but are forgiven and will not. You can know that you have eternal life if you will believe God and receive Jesus as your Savior.
Right so you have never accepted that you deserve to go to hell because you have always believed in Christ you have never actually had to feel bad for your sins. This is why it is seems so silly you telling people to accept it.
Ah nope I am afraid you are absolutely a hypocrit for saying that you cannot pick and choose what parts of the Bible you follow but yet saying that you dont follow the book of Revelation. Its actually very funny to read.
How many times do I have to say I know I deserve to burn in Hell before you will say that I said it and quit lying to say I say anything different? Your modern version of my word is a perversion, and you are guilty of fraud and slander for presenting your lying version as my word.
very cute. You might want to get together with Atrag and Carpman and all hold hands and dance together to celebrate your cuteness....that is IF all three of you still have time outside of Hell.
You are basing your reasoning on a humanistic, ungodly, phychological world-friendly viewpoint. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. Saying drinking in any amount is ok is being friendly with the world, it's unholy, it's ungodly, self-centered. "If any man will be my disciple, let Him have a drink, and take up his cross, and follow me." That's what Jesus implied, right? Or was it "If any man will be my disciple, let him deny himself daily, and take up his cross, and follow me".
Teaching that indulgence in alcohol is ok for Christians is unbiblical, rebellious against God's word.
It isn't hypocrisy, it is just a flimsy argument. Their argument predicates upon the idea that consumption of alcohol is a purely self-involved event. You choose to partake, and you choose to deal with the consequences (of course that misses out on the role alcohol has in so many violent crimes).
On the other hand with guns, you do not choose whether or not the people around you have one on them. You do not control if they misfire, or have shoddy aim, or decide to use it for a violent crime.
Again, not like it's a great argument. My fellows on the Left have a lot to learn from regarding gun control and negative freedoms, sure. But it isn't hypocrisy, your analogies simply don't work.
Semantics as always. You will play the devil's advocate no matter if you agree. This is just one of many reasons why I ban you.
Do you have a clue how many times you have tried to deny my argument by telling me the word hypocrisy is not correct in the application?
WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Try just once in addressing the obvious point! Call it what you want, the fact stands that Democrats are extremists pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with saving lives.
Aside from your misunderstanding of semantics, I was addressing their agenda, and it is about saving lives. That is their desired outcome. They are just going about it the wrong way.
Hogwash, if they were trying to save lives they would shut down bars and nightclubs. They would have background checks on previous drunk drivers or mentally ill people before they could buy a drink, etc. etc.
Democrats care about one thing.... taking our guns so Government can control the people.
Hogwash, if they were trying to save lives they would shut down bars and nightclubs
Again, it is trying to save lives whilst maintaining negative freedoms. It's part of the strange dichotomy that is American Liberalism.
Democrats care about one thing.... taking our guns so Government can control the people.
That is absurd. Democrats are one of the two groups that make up the people. Democrats do not have some secret conspiratorial agenda, and the more you claim they do the more you delegitimize your otherwise reasonable position.
Why don't you just come out and flatly admit that you think Christians should be able to drink while living for God? You might as well go sit at a bar and talk about it with drunks, I'm sure you can find some who enjoy talking about your nonjudgmental spineless kind of Christianity which goes with the flow of alcohol, and backs it up with non-biblical, humanism based, worldly psychological mumbo jumbo.
The Bibe does say it is wrong to go into places of drunkedness so I would not refute you on such a statement, but when you make up sins that are not clearly spelled out in the Bible, I will dissagree.
When you imply there is anything you say, think, or do that is not covered specifically by scripture, you are speaking ungodly, worldly, carnal. By saying you do not drink but you take no stand against it and you see no reason in the Bible to stand against it, you are going with the flow of popular culture and not serving God.
If it bothers you when I say something like that, your issue is between you and God.
What's the difference if you say God says "have a bear and relax"? If you don't draw the line at zero intoxicants for personal indulgence, you have no solid place to draw the line. God is light, in Him there is no darkness, there are no grey areas with God.
Of course everything we choose to do in our lives is free will. God actually cares enough for people to explain how irresponsible behavior will ruin our lives.
It's their choice until those who screw up their lives by living irresponsibly run down to social services to force the tax payers to bail them out. THEN IT BECOMES OUR BUSINESS!
Jesus drank. Probably quite a bit or wine. He hung out with thew sinners and the prostees. He adored alcohol so much he turned water into wine at the wedding in Canna.
And don't try to hand me the crap about when they said "wine" in the bible they meant juice. If this is so, why are their passages that allude to somebody acting strange or being thought to act strange from "drinking too much wine?" Or that part where Noah's daughters got him drunk. Or that time the guy's ow Daughters got him drunk on wine so they could fuck him and have kids.
LOL...and there is yet another lovely bible tale! Right up there with Lot offering up his virgin daughters for gang rape in Sodom and Gomorrah so the mob wouldn't bugger his two male angel visitors.
Yeah, Christians have gota be allowed to drink. It's the only way you could deal with those screwy bible stories. And being inebriated would help you deal with the fact you are wasting your life worshiping a non-existent deity. And praying to a carpenter dude who has been dead for 2000 years and never even spoke English anyway! So how could he understand you unless you are praying in Aramaic? Or is this another biblical miracle too?
This is not true. It is a modern display of ignorance of the Bible.
The first thing people do when they believe this excuse for alcoholic indulgence is generally to point to the first miracle performed by Jesus where He turned water into wine. If you read the story, the vessels he used were purified....that means they contained nothing that would cause fermentation. Fermentation is always allegorical for sin in the Bible..."a little leavening leavens the whole lump". Sin permeates our soul so we are polluted. Jesus did not make wine with fermentation in it, and the wine He served at the last supper was not fermented as it pictured His blood and He blood had no sin in it.
Again, if you read the story of when Jesus turned the water into wine, they marveled that the good wine was saved for last. Fermented wine is grape juice which has gone bad. Grape juice in the Bible is wine which has not gone bad, it's good wine. Strong drink is wine which has gone bad. Wine which causes drunkenness in the Bible is grape juice which has gone bad. Fermentation pictures sin, it permeates the vessel it is in, whether that vessel is a bottle, a grape, or our own bodies.
People who hated Him accused Him of being a drinker. They also accused him of being a devil, they accused Him of being a bastard child, they accused Him of being insane. People make these same accusations, the same today as they always have but then say "he was a good teacher of morals". Why people say somebody is a liar and a lunatic and then they say he was a good teacher of morals makes no sense....unless of course they are trying to justify their own inadequacy and cover them with their good points.
It's a shame, a disgrace, that so many people today who claim to be Christians insist that God does not care about if we engage in self-centered indulgences. That is completely contrary to the message of the cross, the invitation of Jesus to all that we deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily to follow Him....even as He obeyed God to death on the cross.
Wine in the Bible is the word used for grape juice, fermented or unfermented. Sometimes you have to understand the context to know the difference.
I am a bit disappointed to have read your post and once again regretted being subjected to vulgarities. Rubbing peoples face with foul words does not make your argument valid...rather, it makes it look like you are insecure in what you are saying and trying to rudely silence others. If you want to be respected in the scientific community, I have never seen a Hawkins use profanities. I would not listen to him if he did, but I can listen since he does not. When I see vulgarities, it just makes me want to avoid the person who resorts to being vulgar trying to be strong. I've been reading some of your posts, but I will stop if I keep seeing profanities.
The only valid excuse for drinking fermented beverages is when there is no water to drink. That is also a valid excuse for drinking ones own urine, though it is understandable that a person would drink fermented wine before their own urine.
I never understood why you guys think drinking a little vino now and then is a Or that it would not have ben OK for JC in awhile. It is pretty he did this. Anybody who thinks his wine was not fermented is just trying to find a nit pick loophole to justify their silly church dogma. like the Baptists.
And you forget that even atheist I know a helluva lot more of the bible than even most Christians. So let us take a look at some biblical references, shall we?
Now then, first off, there is only one group of people who are explicitly told in the Bible to never drink wine/alcohol, and that is the Nazirites (Numbers 6:1–4). Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” a native of the town of Nazareth (Luke 18:37). Jesus never took the Nazirite vow.
Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).
The Greek word for “drunk” in John 2:10 is methuo, which means “to be drunken” or intoxicated. It is the same word used in Acts 2:15 where Peter is defending the apostles against accusations of drunkenness. The testimony of the master of the feast is that the wine Christ produced was able to intoxicate.
Of course, just because Jesus turned water into wine doesn’t prove that He drank the wine at the wedding, but it would have been normal for Him to do so. What it does prove is that Jesus doesn’t condemn drinking wine any more than He condemns eating bread. Sinful people abuse what is not inherently sinful. Bread and wine are not sinful, but gluttony and drunkenness are (Proverbs 23:2; Ephesians 5:18).
In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’” (emphasis added). In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life (1 Peter 2:22); however Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.
The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” (Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18). Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup (Mark 14:23).
All Christians would agree drunkenness is sinful, and Christ Himself warns against it (Luke 12:45). However, a biblical view of wine is that it is given as something to delight in (Psalm 104:14–15). There are plenty of warnings against alcohol abuse, in texts like Proverbs 20:1, because sinful men are more likely to abuse wine than to use it in moderation.
Those who try to use Jesus’ probable use of wine to excuse their drunkenness should heed the warning in Luke 12:45. Christians who want to keep a biblical view of drinking wine should either drink in moderation, never to drunkenness, or abstain totally.
from the end of this long post, thought I would put it first ....
And I don't know if you noticed that I asked if there's any good results yet in the bee study. I did see that Asian giant hornets are coming to America........they won't help our bee population as they are marauders who destroy colonies to get the honey....and if they sting you, it feels like a nail got pounded into your limb and the wound looks like a bullet hole....if you live long enough for the sting hole to rot out...nasty critters
Total abstinence was the common teaching in early churches, and few Baptist churches hold to that tradition and Biblically supported view. It is a stretch to imply Jesus made fermented wine, as you don't put old wine into new bottles. The Bible teaches holiness as God's demand for His people to represent His name in the earth, from cover to cover. The alcoholic indulgence you are accusing Jesus of is an unholy, self-centered indulgence completely contrary to God's calling for us to be like Him.
You still have not addressed the FACT that fermentation in the Bible is always representative of sin. It is used figuratively to portray the corruption of sin. The vessels Jesus used were clearly prepared by manner of purification, without sin, without leavening.
Here is your basic assertion: "Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage". The Bible is not about things that are "almost certainly". It is God's word. If you don't believe the Bible, you can assume that being "almost certainly" sure of something is the same as being right. What you are doing is the same thing as the religious leaders who later murdered Jesus. They called him a drunkard and a glutton, and neither of those things were true. They saw him eating with sinners, so they assumed he was sinning the same way as those sinners. You are making the same assumption and accusation.
I have heard much stronger arguments supporting alcohol in moderation that what you are presenting, which use your argument and then build on it. I can make your argument much stronger...though deceptive, but much stronger sounding. Christians like From Within will make your argument stronger, and I have been going back and forth with him on the same subject and he acts like he hates my guts over it when we are supposed to be Christian brothers.....the common thread in all of them is that they are protective of personal indulgence for selfish reasons..."I'm realaxing, it's good for my health, it's good for easing tensions to socialize"...that kind of stuff. It's self-centered. Many Christians will try to cover it up by saying things like "I'm trying to reach the lost people at their parties" or whatever, it's hypocrisy..just making excuses for lustful indulgences.
In Acts 2:15, Peter was rebuking assumptions, "as ye suppose". In John 2, there is still nothing but "almost certainly" from people who accuse the Lord of being a winebibber, that the wine was fermented, and the fact remains that the Lord used wine as the picture of His blood, His sinless blood, and fermentation represents sin in the Bible. Jesus had nothing to do with fermented wine. Who said He took a Nazarite vow? That is irrelevant. It's about holiness, not indulging in sin. Jesus did not need to take any Nazarite vow to be holy, He is the Holy One, God manifest in the flesh. God wants us all to take a Nazarite vow when it comes to alcohol. The reality of cultural leanings is not an excuse for indulgence in alcohol.
This is what Christians, sadly, fall into when teaching the same culture centered instead of Bible believing view, condoning of indulging in intoxicants. It's about being holy. Christians who promote the same thing you are promoting, preferring "almost certainly" above the separation from worldly lusts God calls His people to. They create grey areas in which whatever they feel like doing is ok. I was like that for a long time, I actually gave serious consideration to all of your arguments as being maybe correct. There was always something in it that didn't quite ring true.....and that something is the lack of holiness. Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. I was a carbon copy of From Within....assuming he is part of a church similar to Baptists, as most Baptists are so far compromised to tolerate lustful indulgences for self-satisfaction it's a crying shame. I attended a Christian college which promoted those kind of things, one class was completely dedicated to cultural indulgence as a tool for understanding people who do not believe the gospel so we can speak their language and reach them better.
It's heretical. Such stuff completely ignores one of the most basic themes of God in the Bible....that He is holy, and we must be holy to be in His presence, and He wants us to be holy now to represent His name. Because of the lackadaisical attitude of Christians, they look like silly clowns with no real backbone and it's little wonder they are so easily made to look like fools when they try to deal with the hyper-educated internet generation.
While it does say wine makes glad the heart of man, the advice of Proverbs still is completely against it, to stay away from it completely, to not even look at fermented wine with any longing to indulge. That is what God wants for His people......He wants them to be different from the world, to take a firm stand.
And that's another point. Any Christian who indulges in ONE DROP of alcohol is condoning that behavior for others who indulge in TWO DROPS, then ONE DRINK, then TWO DRINKS, and on and on and on. Some who have multiple drinks claim to be doing it in moderation and may well have the approval and acceptance of family. But again, the line is blurred and the person who says, like From Within, "I don't drink, but it's ok for you as long as it's in moderation" are condoning the blurring of lines which ends in people like my brother being killed by a drunk driver. It's wrong for Christians in any way to condone any amount of indulgence in alcohol. Any allowance for alcohol indulgence for anything other than life-saving necessity is allowing for unrighteousness, and it's completely against the Bible
God is not a god who lives in grey areas. Total abstinence is the only position that can be firmly supported by the Bible, and "almost certainly' is never accepted as true. The Bible recognizes the cultural trend, and that wine makes the heart glad, but firmly teaches to stay away from it to be holy like a Nazarite.
This is an argument of certainty, not "almost certainly" and "strongly suggests" like you imply in your Luke 7 reference. The Bible teaches total abstinence for Christians...no willful indulgence in alcohol. I made a terrible mistake while attending Bible college to compromise on this issue like my teachers and most Christians today are compromise. We are in the falling away, the apostate falling away from Biblically sound doctrine, foretold for the last days. Only a few decades ago, most Christian churches (I'm not including Catholic in that, as they are not Biblically Christian) taught the same things I am saying here about being holy, abstaining from indulgences of alcohol, abstaining from any appearance of evil. A Christian sipping suds appears to be just as evil as any non-Christian drunk sipping suds.....it's self indulging.
At least you admit throughout all of your arguments that you are not 100 percent certain of being right. Here's another question for you to test your Bible knowledge....
Why did Jesus refuse the vinegar and gall offered to Him to ease His suffering as He died?
Ok, my apologies for being redundant and not keeping a good flow through the paragraphs. I know how to write better. This is what holds me back from getting some books published....I don't like editing.
A side note: the expression "a helluvalot" in referring to your Bible knowledge shows disrespect for the Bible. The devil knows the Bible from cover to cover, can probably quote the whole thing word for word in English or any other language. Hell is not a measure of how much knowledge or anything else you have, it is representative of complete loss, complete separation from anything you can call good. When you say you have "a helluvalot" of Bible knowledge, you are saying you use it in separating yourself from anything good. That is the atheistic dream of death....but it leaves out the fact that to be relieved of responsibility for how you spent your time would be good for you. You don't get off the hook in death.
Misuse of the word hell is distasteful, but when people misuse the word they are opening a door for the Word of God, and I often reply with truth in direct relation to how the person uses the word Hell. It's a lot of fun, and it can be a lot of work demanding a lot of backbone as sometimes the person who talks like they have authority from Hell to back them up can turn quite psychotic and threatening when they are told the truth....the demons on their back take control. I have seen people who are usually nice and easy going suddenly burst into something else with faces so twisted in evil expressions that only the grace of God enables me to stand and look them in the eye as I refuse to withdraw from stating the truth in reply to the lies they boast in. I look past all of that at the sinner God loves, who He wants to receive His Son in reality to know His mercy and be saved from Hell.
And I don't know if you noticed that I asked if there's any good results yet in the bee study. I did see that Asian giant hornets are coming to America........they won't help our bee population as they are marauders who destroy colonies to get the honey....and if they sting you, it feels like a nail got pounded into your limb and the wound looks like a bullet hole....if you live long enough for the sting hole to rot out...nasty critters
the word "wine" was often used to describe unfermented grape juice, fresh grape juice. When Jesus turned water into wine, it was done in water vessels that were purified according to Jewish law, nothing in them to cause fermentation. Fermentation is figurative of sin in the Bible. When Jesus gave wine to His disciples at the last supper, it was not fermented as the blood of Christ was sinless blood.
It is a terrible lack of Biblical knowledge and understanding that has given rise to modern tolerance among Christians for alcoholic indulgence. It's an ungodly thing to do, it's a selfish indulgence and the Christian life is one of self-denial.
listen, idiot, to start with, that was in Genesis before sin entered into the world through Adam. The plants were given as food, not as smoking material. Read the passage...it was for food. Now we have sin in the world, some things have gone bad and are toxic. Do you smoke poison Ivy? Why not? it would probably really get you high. You are just a dope addict trying to make excused. God does not want people to be stupid. Dope is for stupid people. If you want to be stupid, smoke dope.
You are just a foul mouth idiot dope head punk who loves his sin more than life and will wake up in Hell if you won't repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
No it does not specify they're to EAT. It says i give unto you all the plants of the world to USE. Use as medicine use as food use as seasoning and TO SMOKE. If plants aren't for smoking then why are you not up in arms about tobacco?
Do you smoke poison ivy? Not if you wanna fucking die. There's this thing called science. And it's tested poison ivy and turns out it's POISONOUS. If you smoke it you will die.
My legitimate arguments aren't excuses. Kids have epileptic seizures up to 200 times a day.they take cannabis oil and that number drops to a dozen or less. It clearly works as a very effective pain killer, anti depressant, cures lack of appetite making it effective against anorexia, ect. You wouldn't have states legalizing it as MEDICINAL if that were not the case.
Well you've never smoked it and you're pretty damn stupid so what's your excuse?
No I'm just a normal guy who enjoys weed on occasion and doesn't believe in fucking fairy tales.
Also with the legalization of marijuana as medicine leads to significantly less death by overdosage on painkillers, I'm sure god if he were to exist would be happy about that rather than mad or sad, that is making the best for what he supposedly offered us and making it a good thing.
first-In gods time wine was un fermented so your point is completely out of order
second- god would mind if you drink it because that is whats called being"luke warm" and that is when you believe in god but dont act like it and at that point the bible says he will spew you out
First, no particular point in time was "God's time".
Second, the word yayin, which appears in the Bible about a hundred and forty times, translates to fermented wine. Fermented wine has existed for a long time.
Clearly you have no life because you spend time looking up things to show something about something irreverent. Im just trying to save you from hell by bringing you the gospel. The way to hell is broad but the way to heaven is narrow. Let me ask you something? do you beleive in god?
The topic is alcohol consumption within Christian theology.
I, within about 2 minutes, found you two sources regarding both the terms used for fermented wine (and its consumption) which show up hundreds of times within the Bible, to demonstrate that yes, alcohol is permitted within the Bible.
I'm guessing the insults and change of topic is because you don't want to admit you were wrong? :P
And no, I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian God. Even if I believe he existed, I really doubt I'd worship him, based on the whole "way to hell is broad but the way to heaven is narrow" concept that so permeates that theology.
Just for your information I will stop automatically bannng you from my future debates because you have many times refrained from posting on Cuaroc's copied debates.
All I ask is that you not be deceptive when debating me, don't waste our time with semantics and simply address the point of the argument.
I could care less if you dissgree with me and show me how I am wrong or how your side is right.
Now if for example I state the OBVIOUS of how the sexual revolution has ushered in many more unwed mothers, many more fatherless children, etc. and you deny it, then the debate is over. It is obvious by just looking at the numbers of children living with no father or mother at home, yet STILL you would deny it.
I have better things to do than debate the obvious when a person refuses to admit the obvious.
Let me once again try and show how totally wrong you are.
Lets say you tell me the obvious fact of how some women went down back alleys to have illegal abortons. Now lets say I do what you do on certain topics and simply deny the obvious fact. What would you do if I kept denying how women went down back alleys to have abortions? No matter how much evidence you provided to the contrary or the multiple news outlets speaking to the subject, I STILLED DENIED IT. Would you keep wasting time trying to debate me on the issue or would you finally get frustrated and ignore me. Now lets say I kept monopolizing the debate by posting the same denials over and over after you told me to stop. You would ban me if it were your debate. If not, then you would be an enabler of deceptive people and never do what it takes to stop the deception.
I spent much time debating you on how people(who say they personally oppose late term abortions for any reason) do support these abortions with their vote and you kept denying how you did so. You told me you don't vote for Democrats so therefore you did not support it. You deceived me because you knew full well that you vote for other Left wing parties who DO INDEED support late term abortions just as Democrats do. You finally admitted it and then told me that the people you voted for never get elected! LOL, what pathetic denial of what you supported with your vote!
I refuse to waste my time with people like that. My time is valuable and to spend it bantering words with a deceptive liar is something I refuse to do.
Let me make it clear, if you continue being deceptive I will once again ban you.
Lets say you tell me the obvious fact of how some women went down back alleys to have illegal abortons. Now lets say I do what you do on certain topics and simply deny the obvious fact. What would you do if I kept denying how women went down back alleys to have abortions? No matter how much evidence you provided to the contrary or the multiple news outlets speaking to the subject, I STILLED DENIED IT. Would you keep wasting time trying to debate me on the issue or would you finally get frustrated and ignore me. Now lets say I kept monopolizing the debate by posting the same denials over and over after you told me to stop. You would ban me if it were your debate. If not, then you would be an enabler of deceptive people and never do what it takes to stop the deception.
First, your analogy fails because you never DO provide evidence when people challenge your claims. You declare it to be obvious and then immediately ban. Second, I haven't ever banned anyone from any of my debates ever, because I don't fear opposing opinions.
I spent much time debating you on how people(who say they personally oppose late term abortions for any reason) do support these abortions with their vote and you kept denying how you did so. You told me you don't vote for Democrats so therefore you did not support it. You deceived me because you knew full well that you vote for other Left wing parties who DO INDEED support late term abortions just as Democrats do. You finally admitted it and then told me that the people you voted for never get elected! LOL, what pathetic denial of what you supported with your vote!
First, we never debated it. You just made accusations over and over and refused to substantiate it. Second, I didn't "admit" it, I told you that I can't possibly be effectively supporting them because my votes haven't had any legitimate effect.
I refuse to waste my time with people like that. My time is valuable and to spend it bantering words with a deceptive liar is something I refuse to do.
Except you don't debate, ever.
I mean seriously dude. Ever. You just pull this crap. "Adhere to my rules or be silenced" is all you do (and you are doing it again now). You complain about liberals being control freaks and authoritarian, yet nobody is more authoritarian on this website than you.
Come. Join us in the world of adulthood. Actually try discussing opinions that differ from yours.
first-In gods time wine was un fermented so your point is completely out of order
Not according to most religious scholars. They didn't have any way to prevent fermentation.
second- god would mind if you drink it because that is whats called being"luke warm" and that is when you believe in god but dont act like it and at that point the bible says he will spew you out
If God didn't want us to drink He wouldn't have invented fermentation.
The question here is for Christians, not pagans who worship the "queen of heaven" and pray to the dead while they call themselves "Christians", and not for disrespectful ungodly punks who refer to the LORD God Almighty as "JC".
Your answer was non-responsive and off-topic. The subject of this post is whether you should drink and drive while a bobbing head of Jesus is on your dashboard watching over you, and I say yes. Or, would you prefer JC looking at the road ahead watching out for danger?
If you are drinking, you are living for your own self-indulgence. Jesus said if we are to be His disciples, we are to deny ourselves and take up our cross daily to follow Him. Drinking is a selfish indulgence, in "moderation" or in drunkenness. It's disgraceful for people who claim to be Christians to recommend or participate in any indulgence of alcohol.
If you are in a church that allows people known to indulge in alcohol to be in positions of leadership, or teaches that "moderation" of alcoholic indulgence is ok, you are in the wrong church.
The Bible clearly teaches that we should not keep company with people who drink, and we should avoid drinking, not even look at it with curiosity like it's something beautiful or desirable.......and of course don't be a drunkard.
The following, for those of you who are Biblically illiterate like so many who claim to know the Bible and Christian teaching today, is one of many passages in the Bible which are against self-indulgent behavior.
PROVERBS 23......
19 Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.
25 Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice.
26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.
27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.
29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.