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Debate Info

93
95
yes no
Debate Score:188
Arguments:172
Total Votes:215
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Argument Ratio

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 yes (70)
 
 no (79)

Debate Creator

Caleb06(20) pic



Should Christians be able to drink while living for god

yes

Side Score: 93
VS.

no

Side Score: 95

"Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink,h or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice."

Deuteronomy 14:26

Side: yes
Caleb06(20) Disputed
2 points

Well you got me on that one but I still think that we shouldnt drink.

Side: no
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

Nor do I, really.

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Clarified
1 point

Don't let him get you, that guy is probably not even saved, probably dead in his sin and on his way to Hell.....just knows enough Bible to take things out of context and twist them into excuses for his own sin.

That passage in Deut. was a command from God for a one time holiday for rejoicing in what God had done in delivering the children of Israel out of the bondage of Egypt. It was God's Law for one day, and only one day, specific and limited clearly. It was obedience to God, not forced on any individual other than that the whole day was to be a holy day for the Lord. That is the only time in the Bible that alcohol was ever condoned by God. People today want to drink because they feel like it on their own accord, and it's not in obedience to God...it's self-centered indulgence and the Bible is against it. Don't let ungodly people and worldly Christians talk you into compromising on holiness. God calls us to be holy in every manner of conversation, in every way we conduct ourselves we are called to serve God now as we will serve Him forever in Heaven with all of His blessings and unspeakable joy in the light of His glory and love.

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

That was a one time celebration after the Lord brought the Jews out of captivity in Egypt. It is not an excuse for drinking today.

Side: no
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Yeah, not being a complete asshole is an excuse to drink today.

Side: yes
Amarel(5669) Disputed
0 points

Does that mean that we can't celebrate unless God gives the go ahead? Or does it mean that when we celebrate, we should do it as God prescribes? which is with booze

Side: yes
Minachan(1) Disputed
1 point

Money can't buy eternal life, It's just a means by which man establishes a home. I remember there was a saying. It is better for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. That's why things bought with money in the world can't bring anything to heaven. People are born with nothing, and they don't take anything when they die. that's the rule

Supporting Evidence: Happy wheels (happywheels24.com)
Side: no
1 point

Yes you can drink and drive but the law states you can't be drunk and drive !

Side: yes

God will be the final say on things we choose to do in this life. The Bible is vague on having a drink. It speaks to drinking wine, but does tell us that getting drunk is wrong. I personally believe if a person drinks a beer and does not get tipsy or drunk, I see no problem with that.

I personally don't drink for many reasons..... the cost of it, the risk of having a car accident and having blood alcohol levels showing I had a drink even though I was not drunk, the risk of becoming an alcoholic, etc., etc.

I will not judge others for having a drink but do consider getting drunk a serious problem in our culture from all the harm done by drunks.

What this argument shows us, as I already knew, is that those on the Left who support gun control are such total hypocrites! They scream at the mere suggestion of banning alcohol, but have no problem with never ending gun control laws with the express purpose of someday banning guns.

Alcohol kills more people than guns and you seldom hear a peep out of the gun control Progressives.

Using the same logic from Progressives, we could save lives by banning nightclubs, bars, etc.

We could have back ground checks on a person before allowing him to have a drink in Bars. We could have background checks to prevent crazy people from having a drink, etc. etc.

Do you control fanatics get it? Nahhhhh, you will keep going after guns while enjoying your drink.

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
2 points

The Bible is clearly against indulgence in intoxication, it's unholy. God calls His people to be holy like Jesus. We are not even supposed to look at fermented wine, have no desire for it. This kind of wishy-washy attitude toward selfish and unholy indulgences is a large part of why Christians are no longer respected as admirable moral leaders who are appreciated and imitated for their strong stands and excellent contribution to society.

Side: no
Amarel(5669) Clarified
1 point

But where? What does the bible say on the issue of drinking alcohol and where does it say it?

Side: yes
FromWithin(8241) Clarified
1 point

Give me the verses in the new testament where it says we should not drink wine or alcohol. I'm not talking about drinking heavily or getting drunk.

If there are verses clearly telling us not to drink at all, then I will agree. I don't drink so I am not trying to excuse my own behaviors.

Side: yes
IAmSparticus(1516) Clarified
1 point

It isn't hypocrisy, it is just a flimsy argument. Their argument predicates upon the idea that consumption of alcohol is a purely self-involved event. You choose to partake, and you choose to deal with the consequences (of course that misses out on the role alcohol has in so many violent crimes).

On the other hand with guns, you do not choose whether or not the people around you have one on them. You do not control if they misfire, or have shoddy aim, or decide to use it for a violent crime.

Again, not like it's a great argument. My fellows on the Left have a lot to learn from regarding gun control and negative freedoms, sure. But it isn't hypocrisy, your analogies simply don't work.

Side: yes
FromWithin(8241) Clarified
1 point

Semantics as always. You will play the devil's advocate no matter if you agree. This is just one of many reasons why I ban you.

Do you have a clue how many times you have tried to deny my argument by telling me the word hypocrisy is not correct in the application?

WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Try just once in addressing the obvious point! Call it what you want, the fact stands that Democrats are extremists pushing an agenda that has nothing to do with saving lives.

Side: yes
1 point

If your God really loved you, he would let you. However, he doesn't.

Side: yes
FromWithin(8241) Disputed
2 points

So tell me how loving it would be for God to say...... drink it up, have a good time.

Then after millions of people become alcoholics, how loving was it for God to condone the behavior that created their alcoholism?

Side: no
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

What's the difference if you say God says "have a bear and relax"? If you don't draw the line at zero intoxicants for personal indulgence, you have no solid place to draw the line. God is light, in Him there is no darkness, there are no grey areas with God.

Side: yes
foil7(346) Disputed
1 point

So tell me how loving it would be for God to say...... drink it up, have a good time.

First of all, I did not say that God would say that.

Then after millions of people become alcoholics, how loving was it for God to condone the behavior that created their alcoholism?

God shouldn't tell people NOT to drink alcohol. It's free will.

Side: yes
1 point

Of course Christians should be able to drink.

Jesus drank. Probably quite a bit or wine. He hung out with thew sinners and the prostees. He adored alcohol so much he turned water into wine at the wedding in Canna.

And don't try to hand me the crap about when they said "wine" in the bible they meant juice. If this is so, why are their passages that allude to somebody acting strange or being thought to act strange from "drinking too much wine?" Or that part where Noah's daughters got him drunk. Or that time the guy's ow Daughters got him drunk on wine so they could fuck him and have kids.

LOL...and there is yet another lovely bible tale! Right up there with Lot offering up his virgin daughters for gang rape in Sodom and Gomorrah so the mob wouldn't bugger his two male angel visitors.

Yeah, Christians have gota be allowed to drink. It's the only way you could deal with those screwy bible stories. And being inebriated would help you deal with the fact you are wasting your life worshiping a non-existent deity. And praying to a carpenter dude who has been dead for 2000 years and never even spoke English anyway! So how could he understand you unless you are praying in Aramaic? Or is this another biblical miracle too?

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
1 point

This is not true. It is a modern display of ignorance of the Bible.

The first thing people do when they believe this excuse for alcoholic indulgence is generally to point to the first miracle performed by Jesus where He turned water into wine. If you read the story, the vessels he used were purified....that means they contained nothing that would cause fermentation. Fermentation is always allegorical for sin in the Bible..."a little leavening leavens the whole lump". Sin permeates our soul so we are polluted. Jesus did not make wine with fermentation in it, and the wine He served at the last supper was not fermented as it pictured His blood and He blood had no sin in it.

Again, if you read the story of when Jesus turned the water into wine, they marveled that the good wine was saved for last. Fermented wine is grape juice which has gone bad. Grape juice in the Bible is wine which has not gone bad, it's good wine. Strong drink is wine which has gone bad. Wine which causes drunkenness in the Bible is grape juice which has gone bad. Fermentation pictures sin, it permeates the vessel it is in, whether that vessel is a bottle, a grape, or our own bodies.

People who hated Him accused Him of being a drinker. They also accused him of being a devil, they accused Him of being a bastard child, they accused Him of being insane. People make these same accusations, the same today as they always have but then say "he was a good teacher of morals". Why people say somebody is a liar and a lunatic and then they say he was a good teacher of morals makes no sense....unless of course they are trying to justify their own inadequacy and cover them with their good points.

It's a shame, a disgrace, that so many people today who claim to be Christians insist that God does not care about if we engage in self-centered indulgences. That is completely contrary to the message of the cross, the invitation of Jesus to all that we deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily to follow Him....even as He obeyed God to death on the cross.

Wine in the Bible is the word used for grape juice, fermented or unfermented. Sometimes you have to understand the context to know the difference.

I am a bit disappointed to have read your post and once again regretted being subjected to vulgarities. Rubbing peoples face with foul words does not make your argument valid...rather, it makes it look like you are insecure in what you are saying and trying to rudely silence others. If you want to be respected in the scientific community, I have never seen a Hawkins use profanities. I would not listen to him if he did, but I can listen since he does not. When I see vulgarities, it just makes me want to avoid the person who resorts to being vulgar trying to be strong. I've been reading some of your posts, but I will stop if I keep seeing profanities.

The only valid excuse for drinking fermented beverages is when there is no water to drink. That is also a valid excuse for drinking ones own urine, though it is understandable that a person would drink fermented wine before their own urine.

Side: no
SlapShot(2608) Disputed
1 point

I never understood why you guys think drinking a little vino now and then is a Or that it would not have ben OK for JC in awhile. It is pretty he did this. Anybody who thinks his wine was not fermented is just trying to find a nit pick loophole to justify their silly church dogma. like the Baptists.

And you forget that even atheist I know a helluva lot more of the bible than even most Christians. So let us take a look at some biblical references, shall we?

Now then, first off, there is only one group of people who are explicitly told in the Bible to never drink wine/alcohol, and that is the Nazirites (Numbers 6:1–4). Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” a native of the town of Nazareth (Luke 18:37). Jesus never took the Nazirite vow.

Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine (John 2:10–11).

The Greek word for “drunk” in John 2:10 is methuo, which means “to be drunken” or intoxicated. It is the same word used in Acts 2:15 where Peter is defending the apostles against accusations of drunkenness. The testimony of the master of the feast is that the wine Christ produced was able to intoxicate.

Of course, just because Jesus turned water into wine doesn’t prove that He drank the wine at the wedding, but it would have been normal for Him to do so. What it does prove is that Jesus doesn’t condemn drinking wine any more than He condemns eating bread. Sinful people abuse what is not inherently sinful. Bread and wine are not sinful, but gluttony and drunkenness are (Proverbs 23:2; Ephesians 5:18).

In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’” (emphasis added). In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life (1 Peter 2:22); however Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.

The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” (Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18). Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup (Mark 14:23).

All Christians would agree drunkenness is sinful, and Christ Himself warns against it (Luke 12:45). However, a biblical view of wine is that it is given as something to delight in (Psalm 104:14–15). There are plenty of warnings against alcohol abuse, in texts like Proverbs 20:1, because sinful men are more likely to abuse wine than to use it in moderation.

Those who try to use Jesus’ probable use of wine to excuse their drunkenness should heed the warning in Luke 12:45. Christians who want to keep a biblical view of drinking wine should either drink in moderation, never to drunkenness, or abstain totally.

Side: yes
0 points

Jesus turned water into wine. I don't think he would mind you drinking it.

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
2 points

the word "wine" was often used to describe unfermented grape juice, fresh grape juice. When Jesus turned water into wine, it was done in water vessels that were purified according to Jewish law, nothing in them to cause fermentation. Fermentation is figurative of sin in the Bible. When Jesus gave wine to His disciples at the last supper, it was not fermented as the blood of Christ was sinless blood.

It is a terrible lack of Biblical knowledge and understanding that has given rise to modern tolerance among Christians for alcoholic indulgence. It's an ungodly thing to do, it's a selfish indulgence and the Christian life is one of self-denial.

Side: no
Cartman(18192) Disputed
2 points

Dude, have a beer and lighten up.

Side: yes
1 point

Yes.

Side: yes
AveSatanas(4443) Disputed
0 points

But when god says I have given all the plants and herbs of the earth for you to USE that doesn't mean marijuana? Fuckin hypocrite

Side: yes
Caleb06(20) Disputed
1 point

first-In gods time wine was un fermented so your point is completely out of order

second- god would mind if you drink it because that is whats called being"luke warm" and that is when you believe in god but dont act like it and at that point the bible says he will spew you out

Side: no
1 point

First, no particular point in time was "God's time".

Second, the word yayin, which appears in the Bible about a hundred and forty times, translates to fermented wine. Fermented wine has existed for a long time.

Side: yes
1 point

Yes.

Side: yes
Cartman(18192) Disputed
0 points

first-In gods time wine was un fermented so your point is completely out of order

Not according to most religious scholars. They didn't have any way to prevent fermentation.

second- god would mind if you drink it because that is whats called being"luke warm" and that is when you believe in god but dont act like it and at that point the bible says he will spew you out

If God didn't want us to drink He wouldn't have invented fermentation.

Side: yes

Catholics practice symbolic cannibalism during Eucharist by drinking wine and eating a wafer representing JC's blood and flesh, so why not?

Side: yes
Saintnow(3684) Disputed
2 points

The question here is for Christians, not pagans who worship the "queen of heaven" and pray to the dead while they call themselves "Christians", and not for disrespectful ungodly punks who refer to the LORD God Almighty as "JC".

Side: no
0 points

Your answer was non-responsive and off-topic. The subject of this post is whether you should drink and drive while a bobbing head of Jesus is on your dashboard watching over you, and I say yes. Or, would you prefer JC looking at the road ahead watching out for danger?

Side: yes
4 points

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Side: no
2 points

If you are drinking, you are living for your own self-indulgence. Jesus said if we are to be His disciples, we are to deny ourselves and take up our cross daily to follow Him. Drinking is a selfish indulgence, in "moderation" or in drunkenness. It's disgraceful for people who claim to be Christians to recommend or participate in any indulgence of alcohol.

Side: no
Cartman(18192) Disputed
3 points

This would explain why you hate living so much.

Side: yes
pastafarian(79) Disputed
0 points

You typed those words on your materialistic phone or computer.

Side: yes
2 points

Don't drink, and don't pay attention to remarks from homosexuals

Side: no
2 points

If you are in a church that allows people known to indulge in alcohol to be in positions of leadership, or teaches that "moderation" of alcoholic indulgence is ok, you are in the wrong church.

Side: no
2 points

The Bible clearly teaches that we should not keep company with people who drink, and we should avoid drinking, not even look at it with curiosity like it's something beautiful or desirable.......and of course don't be a drunkard.

The following, for those of you who are Biblically illiterate like so many who claim to know the Bible and Christian teaching today, is one of many passages in the Bible which are against self-indulgent behavior.

PROVERBS 23......

19 Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.

20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:

21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.

22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.

23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.

24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.

25 Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice.

26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.

27 For a whore is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.

28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.

29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?

30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Side: no

Absolutely no drinking. If it's a liquid it may as well be Lucifer himself. Water can get fucked.

Does raise the question of whether or not they're allowed soup though.

Side: no
1 point

I agree water is a form of Satan himself! No need to self-indulgeby hydrating yourself!

Side: yes