CreateDebate


Debate Info

79
82
They are the same thing Have fundamental differences
Debate Score:161
Arguments:98
Total Votes:198
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 They are the same thing (48)
 
 Have fundamental differences (48)

Debate Creator

doublejumper(265) pic



Should Jehovah's Witnesses be considered Christians?

I myself am a non-denominational Christian. My parents are Catholic and when a Jehovah's Witness comes walking down  my driveway, my mom comes out and she tells them, "We're Catholic!" and they run away. I have asked many times why we are so hostile towards them, and she always says that they are a cult. She has never given an explanation for it, so after recent research i have done on the topic, I have come to the conclusion that they are indeed not a part of Christian faith. They have fundamental differences with Christianity such as Jesus not dying on the cross and how heaven will only accept 144,000 people. it is also very confusing because they make numerous dates about the end of the world despite how in the bible it says"no one shall know the date or time of the end". they also have many other confusing small beliefs.

GO NUTS! i will have a very open mind in this debate.

They are the same thing

Side Score: 79
VS.

Have fundamental differences

Side Score: 82
4 points

Every sect of Christianity has fundamental differences. Protestants reject the notion of Papal infallibity, Catholics think the Pope's THE man. Any sect that says they adhere to Christ's teachings is a Christian religion. You cannot say their interpretation is unchristian, because it's THEIR interpretation.

The Westboro Baptist church IS Christian! And they preach a whole heck of a lot worse than Jehovah's do.

An example of Christians, who don't really seem like Christians.
Side: They are the same thing
4 points

If you're interested, I actually made a debate about the WBC. http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ What_should_we_do_about_the_WBC

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

In all honesty, I don't believe that people deserve freedom of speech.

They're just too far out there. Maybe they should go to some type of hospital for a while.

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

Christian (A): a religious person who believes Jesus is the son of God (B)

Jehovah's Witnesses (C): a person who believes (among other things) that Jesus is the son of God (B)

If A is B and C is B then A is C.

Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians. QED.

Side: similar
1 point

just because they have something in common does not make them the same.

Side: Have fundamental differences
Cerin(203) Disputed
1 point

I'm not saying JWs and Christians are the same in the sense that all Christians are JWs. I'm just saying JW are a subset of the more general label of "Christian".

e.g. All elephants are animals but not all animals are elephants.

Side: They are the same thing
lawnman(1106) Disputed
0 points

Neither Aristotle nor any logician recognized or recognizes, respectively, as a valid syllogism your submission of a syllogism.

Example:

If ants are red;and blood is red; ants therefore must be blood.

Ants=A

Red= B

Blood=C

The argument is invalid and false.

Side: Have fundamental differences
Cerin(203) Disputed
1 point

You misunderstand and misstate my argument. It's simple set theory. Allow me to rephrase:

If all B are A and all C are B, then all C are A.

In other words, if everyone who believes Jesus is the son of God (B) is a Christian (A), and everyone who's a Jehovah's Witnesses (C) believes Jesus is the son of God (B), then all Jehovah's Witnesses (C) are Christians (A).

QED.

We can elaborate over the B->A relationship (e.g. they believe Jesus is the son of God and try to act according to how they believe Jesus thinks they should live their lives...blah blah blah), but I truncated it for clarity.

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

Their preaching work identifies them as Christian. In the Bible one can clearly see that Christians are those who obey Jesus commands and not those who simply call themselves Christians. See Matt chapter 25 and Matt 28; 19,20

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

yes, and they disobey God by contantly predicting end dates for the world. that was a command from God. they also have alittle bit of being "false prophets" in them. they say only 144,000 will go to heaven when in john 3:16 it says "Whosoever believes in me shal not perish but have eternal life"

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
2 points

JWs do not predict the end the world, it is GOD himself, from his word, the BIBLE. “the last days” and “the time of the end” have been in use for a long time. (2 Timothy 3:1; Daniel 12:4). And that has a reason. And one another thing, the 'end' does not refer to a total destruction of the world. In fact, he “formed it (earth) . . . to be inhabited.” (Isaiah 45:18) But not by a wicked, dying race of humans. God set a time for the restoration of his rulership by means of the Kingdom spoken of at Daniel 2:44. That’s why. And John 3:16 is so true. Every person who has potential could have eternal life. But there's two ways/categories in having eternal life, one is in paradise on earth, and the second is in heaven (that's 144, ooo, Revelation 7 & 14). Why not all?? That’s because God will not destroy earth, so who else will live in here if we go all in heaven???

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

Hey, if they bring some pizza next time they come around they can be whatever they want.

Side: bring pizza next time
1 point

Lets exile the Mormons too, then. They believe in Christ right? Christians. It's like refusing to admit that a certain kind of art isn't art. You can deny it, but it's still art.

Side: They are the same thing
MKIced(2483) Disputed
1 point

I don't consider modern art to be art. The artists simply compile heaps of garbage, name them, and call it art!

But Jehovah's Witnesses DO believe in Christ, so they are Christians, just like Mormons. :)

Side: They are the same thing
Warlin(1214) Disputed
1 point

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'll agree with you, modern art looks like shit and garbage, but I bet the art societies of the world would harshly disagree with you on the subject of their validity as pieces of art.

Side: They are the same thing
0 points

I agree with the general spirit of your argument. I believe modern art IS art. Just not very good art.

Similarly, all Christian sects are Christians, but some may be "better" than others in the sense that some are more faithful to Christian teachings then others. Of course, since these teachings are typically written in a vague and ambiguous form, they're often open to interpretation.

Side: similar
0 points

yes...and they do not only believe Jesus but also imitating him..

Side: Have fundamental differences
1 point

It's a cult branch off of Christianity.

Really, i don't care at all. i hear people complain about how they can't get blood transfusions or how the children can't celebrate anything... but i don't care. why should i interfere with their lives?

but, that's the world we live in. people always want to step in to others lives. for better or for worse.

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

random downvote? obviously the guy who did it was a moron, and couldn't come up with a good argument against mine.

sad.

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

Yes they are because Christianity is comprised of those that believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and that he died and rose again and then ascended into Heaven.

Speaking for a religious stand point, In the early days, those that professed Jesus as Lord started out as a cult in Judaism. To call them a cult is wrong; more like a sect of Christianity.

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

look at the "Christianity" debate, as me and lawnman had a rather long debate about this. make sure you use the show replies button.

Side: Have fundamental differences
1 point

they worship the same god, and that jesus is the son of that god. thats all it takes to be "christian" of "of christ".

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

Just because they are different from other Christian religions doesn't mean that they are completely different and shouldn't be considered Christians. Christianity means follower of Jesus and, to my understanding, that is what Jehovah's Witnesses do; they follow Jesus.

Side: They are the same thing
The Phantom(456) Disputed
1 point

That is the one fundamental difference. Jehovas Witnesses follow God, but not Jesus.

Side: Have fundamental differences
aodebate(35) Disputed
1 point

Since Jesus is the son of God they would also follow God too, right?

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

A Christian follows the teachings of Christ as expressed throughout the Bible.

A Christian bases their beliefs about God and Jesus Christ on the BIble, and strives to live up to the examples and principles set by the prophets of old and the first century apostles of Christ.

When a group does that, then they are Christians.

Other organized religions admittedly follow formed church doctrine not based on the Bible. This is why hardly anybody (at least when I was younger they did not), brings a Bible to church.

In Protestant church services, few scriptures are cited in the short ten or fifteen-minute "sermons," and the time in worship services is taken up with announcements, music, repetitious prayers and sayings, and anything but in depth Bible teaching.

Some churches even discourage Bible reading, saying that it will 'confuse' people. Of course it does, BECAUSE most 'church doctrine' DOES NOT FIT THE BIBLE'S TEACHING, hence, the question should be, are THESE ones really "Christians"?

Side: They are the same thing

They believe in Jesus, so, Jehovah's Witnesses are considered Christians.

Side: They are the same thing

as a resultof this debate i have come to the realization that they are christians. anybody who believes that jesus died for our sins and that he is our one and only savior is christian. they have some differences which other people might and do believe in, but they are still christians. they get some parts of the bible wrong and .... I lITERALLY JUST HAD THIS EPIPHANY! what if they are false prophets? they will surely go to hell if they are! the Bible says that... they have the main thing down, but if they are leading people away from the truth, then they are false prophets! I recant my statement above my epiphany. this just got a whole lot more confusing...

p.s. how weird to have an epiphany while writing in a debate! awesome. maybe it was God giving me a little reminder from the Bible.

Side: Have fundamental differences
2 points

Hello DJ,

"...anybody who believes that jesus died for our sins and that he is our one and only savior is christian."

Satan and the devils believe that Jesus died for our sins and that he is the savior: are they then Christians as well?

Do you want to know where in the bible you can find my statement?

Side: Have fundamental differences

No, I agree completely with your statement. The Devil did believe in Jesus and so did his demons. Certainly you have read the Bible, and thank you for reminding me about that. I believe that for people on the earth have a different rules for that. unless they are a bunch of demons, which i am not counting out and is seems plausible ( by a very long stretch and leap of the mind). i will definetly ponder this some more. too bad we are enemies. you have such good points, but i try not to override my past actions as they are a reminder of who i am and how i change.

Side: Have fundamental differences
Cerin(203) Disputed
0 points

Ok... That's semantic nitpicking, but fair point. Just append to his argument "and they attempt to live by the teachings of Jesus" that there you go. JWs certainly claim to be doing this, and are therefore Christians.

Side: They are the same thing

DJ...They do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. What do they believe...that he got run over by my lil yellow cab? Sorry, that was quite flippant but I truly do not understand how they can be considered Christians in light of that. Christianity was born in all its glory when he died that day.

Side: Have fundamental differences
2 points

Hello K,

Would you care to engage in an adult type discussion about Christianity? I'll be polite!

First question: As an adult, have you questioned the validity of what is commonly referred to as Christianity in comparison of the words of the scriptures? I'm not referring to the denominations and their root causes. I'm asking about your judgment of Christendom.

Side: Have fundamental differences

Hey down vote boy....you're very confused!````````````````````````````````````````````

Side: Have fundamental differences

as i have stated in the prelude to this debate, i disagree with the jehovah's witnesses. i also have many questions about them, such as this one: why do you have over 2 million members if only 144,000 will go to heaven? i think they have many wrong things in their doctrine.

Side: Have fundamental differences

I think the most salient question is why do they have over 200 million members? I know a couple who are Witnesses and are adamant about their faith. They go on and on about it as if they were converting you right then and there. They say that this is the only religion they understand and that suits them to a T. Who am I to judge them? I cannot and do not. Another motto..."Whatever it is you believe in believe it to the bottom of your heart and soul...something good must come of this kind of belief."

I'm like you DJ. I simply don't get it (JW) at all. I have questions about my own religion, I'm a Lutheran, that I discuss with my good friend and Pastor, Roger. He doesn't have all the answers either. I think no one does.

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
2 points

i think i have. if you really want to know more about your questions, why don't you talk to one of them??and yes i am a JW and if you want, i am willing to answer all your questions base on the bible and as long as i can.....

Side: They are the same thing

Screw you down voter! You're so stupid it sits on you like a glowing halo. Snot slinger !!!!

Side: Have fundamental differences

yes, but does the way that Christ died really have anything to do with the reason? as long as he died for our sins, i dont think it matters what he died like. I do not know for sure, but, if you have a different opinion, pleas share.

Side: Have fundamental differences

Yes, but isn't it a matter of what THEY believe that would make them Christians?

"They have fundamental differences with Christianity such as Jesus not dying on the cross and how heaven will only accept 144,000 people. it is also very confusing because they make numerous dates about the end of the world despite how in the bible it says"no one shall know the date or time of the end". they also have many other confusing small beliefs."

Where or of what did He die and for what reasons?

Side: Have fundamental differences
Cerin(203) Disputed
1 point

Somewhat off-topic, but I never really understood the whole "died for our sins" dogma. How is that a sacrifice? And I mean that in a serious, non-flippant, non-trolling manner.

If I were an immortal, omniscient son-of-God-who-is-also-God, and if I died then I'd simply come back to life a few days later, then dying would be a sacrifice the way a millionaire giving a penny to homeless man is a sacrifice.

The only way it would truly have been a sacrifice is if Jesus were NOT the son of God, and his death was permanent and irrevocable. "Giving" something you'll simply get back is no sacrifice.

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

before jesus, we had to make sacrafices of animals to pay for our sins. they had to die for our sins. then God sent Jesus to come down and after preaching and doing all that, was killed by us. when he died, he was the final sacrafice. we do not need to sacrafice anymore animals because jesus sacraficed himself.

if jesus did not, then there would be no way to be forgiven of our sins and we would all go to hell.

Side: Have fundamental differences
2 points

Jesus was the chosen one, the so-called 'Christ'. His followers are called 'CHRISTians'. Logically, every human who follows Christ, including obeying his will and commandments with full devotion, he must call a Christian. But most of the people, who claim that they are Christian, do not really know Jesus! Some says that Jesus himself is the GOD! They also praises him more and not to his Father, Jehovah. And we know that Jesus do not want to glorify him but instead to his Father. So why some still assume that he is GOD? Do they follow the Christ's command that we must only praise and glorify his heavenly Father, Jehovah God? Should they call their selves a 'True Christian'?

Side: Have fundamental differences
1 point

couldn't they be false prophets though? alot of their rules seem a little out of whack. why do they not think Christ was crucified? are they following Christ, or just a few of his rules? Jesus is God. prove me wrong. and why do they only accept 144,000 when they have over 2,000,000 members. if you can ecplain these questions to me, then we can get farther in this debate.

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
2 points

how could they be??they're not even a prophet..they just made the bible as their sole basis of their beliefs. i think u'r blaming the bible itself, because of it's commandments...speaking of crucifiction, the "cross", in Greek word means 'stau-ros'. Stauros signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hang ..even amongst the romans the crux(from which cross was derived) appears to have been originally an upright hole. So it's not a cross as you know. And even if Jesus was really hanged on a "cross", why would some worship that image that Jesus was hanged??for example, do you wanna see your 'bestfriend' hanged and then praise him??it's absurd, right?!and above all, Jesus is not the Almighty God. Why would Jesus prayed to God all over again if he, himself already GOD..?Why he repeatedly says ...'My father...my Father'? Do you and your father are one??of course not!!it's symbolical that Jesus and his Father are one. Just like in marriage that commonly announced the couple as one.

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
2 points

and also about 144,000. Revelation 7:4 says: "I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand.." the 144,000 were the 'little flock' that 'God has approved of giving them(144,000) the kingdom'(Luke 12:32). Yes, these were the chosen one that will be the companion of Jesus to govern God's kingdom. Viewing the number as literal agrees with Jesus' statement at Matthew 22:14 regarding the Kingdom of the heavens: "There are many invited, but FEW chosen". So how about those who didn't chose? They are called the 'great crowd' which will inherit God's kingdom that will go down on earth.(Psalm 37:9, Matthew 6:10)

Side: Have fundamental differences
2 points

Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses have very large differences... both differ greatly on afterlife... Trinity is rejected by witnesses while accepted by christians... witnessess believe jesus was crucified on a stake rather than a cross...witnesses will not recieve blood transfusions and are not very involved in politics... unlike christians

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
2 points

you're right...that's what Christianity in this world do...but Jesus always listen to his Father, our God Jehovah...he also uses the bible (God's word) in his ministry...and definitely obeyed bible's commandments....JWs' beliefs, like what i've said, were from the bible, like what Jesus do.....every belief are coped from the bible....and that should a 'real' Christian do, to adhere God's and Jesus' commandments....

Side: They are the same thing
2 points

why havent you answered my posts below yours? i would really like to continue debating with you about this.

Side: Have fundamental differences
gtride26(14) Disputed
1 point

so because there are close... but not exact... that would make them SIMILAR.... but NOT the same

Side: Have fundamental differences
weddie(19) Disputed
1 point

then they are belong to the world's Christianity, not a real Christians..

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

The following SUMMARIES OF OVER 1400 JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES CRIMINAL and CIVIL COURT CASES will provide the BEST and MOST ACCURATE info about Jehovah's Witnesses, their beliefs, and how they ACTUALLY practice such day to day.

The following website summarizes 900 court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah's Witness Parents, including 400 cases where the JW Parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children, as well as nearly 400 CRIMINAL cases -- most involving MURDERS:

DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com

The following website summarizes over 500 lawsuits filed by Jehovah's Witnesses against their Employers, incidents involving problem JW Employees, and other secret JW "history" court cases:

EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESS EMPLOYEES

http://jwemployees.bravehost.com

Side: Have fundamental differences
1 point

Christianity is not as clear-cut as many of you think it is. Many people who call themselves Christians really aren't Christians in the least bit. Honestly, I do not think that Jehovah's witnesses are Christians. They seem to add to the Scriptures, which God tells us specifically no to do.

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. -Deuteronomy 4:2

I say this because the Bible says nothing about only 144,000 people going to heaven.

Side: Have fundamental differences
NivaZimel(135) Disputed
1 point

I say this because the Bible says nothing about only 144,000 people going to heaven...

NZ

Yes, it does. Revelation 7:14, and 14:1-4. These who go to heaven are figurative "Jews" (God's 'chosen' people), and limited in number, since it was never God's intention that ANY human live in heaven. We were created on earth, from the elements of the soil.

Those who go to heaven are said to be a "little flock" as opposed to a "great crowd" worshiping God, and are said to have been "bought from the earth", in that they once lived on earth.

I can explain further if you wish, or you could call your local Kingdom Hall and get a full explanation from your own Bible, with no obligation to do anything further.

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it,"

The Bible didn't exist as a compiled book until approximately 1000 years after Deuteronomy was written. So, anything written after Deuteronomy is an addition. That includes the entire New Testament and most of the Old Testament. If you can't add or diminish from Deuteronomy, then you have to go back to killing disobedient children (21:18-21), killing women who have sex before marriage (22:20-21), hanging people for sinning (21:22), killing anyone who tries to get you to worship other gods (Deut 12:32), not eating pork (14:8), and a very long list of things Christians no longer do. Please read all of Deuteronomy to see just how depraved it is. It's very similar to ISIS.

“These are the statutes and the judgments which you shall carefully observe in the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess as long as you live on the earth." Deut 12:1

Side: They are the same thing
1 point

FYI - Johova Witnesses are a cult.

They follow false doctrines, of a false prophet!

Another of many deceptions.

Side: Have fundamental differences

Jehovah witness is more like a branch of judaism which believes in christ. Any yet not thoroughly....they disbelieve some of his sayings like muslims and judaism that jesus has said. Yet they say they are Christians. I think they are the closest anti~christs to christianity not Islam.

THE DEVIL'S BEST DISGUISE COSTUME.

Side: Have fundamental differences