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You bring up a good point Bronto, although I would say it's not race that's the issue but culture. I don't want white somolians shitting on my sidewalk either.
No he doesn't. Bronto lied about being a Native American for weeks because he thought it would give his white supremacy rhetoric more credibility. He has a dig at liberals and/or Muslims in every post he writes, even when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with liberals or Muslims. Pretty much every word he writes or speaks is false and he's a bigger liar than Hitler.
He lied about being a Native American? And you know this because he is a rampant white supremacist bigot? How do you know he doesn't just like bacon? Has he ever actually said anything explicitly racist or does he just bash backwards barbaric belief systems and political ideologies he disagrees with? hmm? hmm? hmmmmmmm?????
What's funny is I actually am Native American. He can't understand it because brown people are magically supposed to agree with him.
I told him I was raised on an Indian Reservation, and I was. He thought he proved this false, but we then had the following debate where he quote mined a link saying there were no "Indian Reservations" in Oklahoma. I then provided him a picture of the sign that literally says "Cherokee Indian Reservation". He was too stupid to accept a sign that literally says "Cherokee Indian Reservation", so I purged through his link and copy and pasted from his own link, which contradicted his claim and quote mine. He then ran off, never to be seen again on that particular debate.
Yes, they should have then. And they should now be mad that liberals demand the colonization of their land by every other race on the planet.
You point out a pretty interesting contradiction on the left.
They harp on the problems the Indians had to deal with when, tribe by tribe, they had to deal with the effects of uncontrolled immigration in the 16th to 19th centuries.
Then they argue that modern Americans should invite the same sorts of problems and cultural conflicts by failure to control immigration.
It's not so much that they took it, it's the WAY they took it that Native Americans should be mad at. They slaughtered their Buffalo, starved their people, forcibly took their land and put them on reservations ... then, sometimes took their reservations! Yeah, (I) would be angry, I think YOU would be too.
They slaughtered their Buffalo, starved their people, forcibly took their land and put them on reservations
Yes, natives know the history of the Democratic Party, from slavery for free labor, to the Trail of Tears, to the formation of the kkk at the height of its power, to Jim Crow, the assasinations of MLK and Malcolm X, to even rounding up the Japanese Americans into camps. Of course now they've moved on to using Mexicans for cheap slave labor and went back to importing mass foreign colonizers to take over native territory.
I agree that when it happened they had more than a right to be angry. Now that it's long over though, should they still be angry? If so, should U.S. citizens still be angry at Britain for past injustices?
The British have buried that hatchet long ago, as have all Americans that are mentally competent. You only have to look at what the Koch Bros. are doing to their (Indian) lands with their unnecessary pipe line ... with government support and protection. No consideration at all for the lands we "gave them". Funny, when I grew up we called that "Indian giving", when you gave something, then took it back.
The past is the past. Americans don't treat the "Brits" as a defeated people, the Brits don't come over hear and say they want New England back.
If native Indians are presently having land that they actually own taken from them by force then I oppose such action, though I'd have to be given more information.
I don't know of recent events, but a few years ago there was a pipeline set to be laid on land near a Reservation. The Native Americans of the Reservation claimed that the land in question, which was not on the Reservation, was nonetheless holy ground. They, and many many others, protested the pipeline and were treated roughly law enforcement for their trouble.
That sounds horrible and I completely empathize with them. They don't own the land so it seems open and shut but on the other hand pipelines can leak and there are other issues so it's more complicated than that. I wouldn't want to give my opinion on something of which I am so ignorant.
Technically and legally, it is open and shut. But that doesn’t stop emotions from running high, which makes it subject to political maneuvering/manipulation.
It attracted a lot of otherwise uninvolved protestors to try to stop construction. What’s interesting is that the Native American issue has been mishandled every step of the way and continues to be mishandled by our government, but typically no one notices. The tribes are theoretically sovereign, but not actually. I would be interested to see them unite as one Native nation and seek UN recognition. The government would shit itself.
"that doesn’t stop emotions from running high, which makes it subject to political maneuvering/manipulation."
It's interesting how white guilt seems to produce a kind of "privilege" (to use the SJW lexicon) for nonwhites whereby any negative outcome for a group thought of as "oppressed" is fought tooth and nail by social justice advocates.
"What’s interesting is that the Native American issue has been mishandled every step of the way and continues to be mishandled by our government, but typically no one notices."
In what way? I'm British and thus completely ignorant of this topic.
"The tribes are theoretically sovereign, but not actually. I would be interested to see them unite as one Native nation and seek UN recognition"
That would be interesting, though I imagine there are many barriers to their unification and secession (e.g. old tribal squabbles, government aid, access to resources).
Disclaimer: American Tribes are diverse, as are their experiences with poverty and the government. My take is very generalized.
The US government had a bad record with regards to treaties with various tribes. The government would tend to break treaties whenever gold was discovered or railways needed to be laid. Ultimately, all tribes were conquered and given land reserved only for them, though most of this land is kept in “trust” by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Native populations were ten given enough to provide for their needs, most of them haven’t crawled out from under that thumb ever since.
Since money is given to tribes through their leadership, competitive effort is directed at achieving tribal status, rather than financial success. Not only is there corruption in the higher end of many tribal systems, but there is a significant mismanagement of funds on the part of the US government.
The BIA misplaced Billions of dollars just before 9/11 and never accounted for it. This scandal was buried under the tension of war. There have been other previous scandals as well, along with a persistent poverty of tribal populations.
People like to worry about oppressed minorities, but Native Americans are the only ethnic group that I see as having a real case for oppression against the government. Ironically, they are the group that we don’t talk about much. Protesters only get upset if football teams want to have a racially insensitive mascot, or an oil company wants to build on non-Native land.
It's not so much that they took it, it's the WAY they took it that Native Americans should be mad at. They slaughtered their Buffalo, starved their people, forcibly took their land and put them on reservations ... then, sometimes took their reservations!
There are some serious problems with the assumptions on which you are basing your position.
-1- You are using an inappropriate term for the people we are discussing. Native American was invented by anthropologists so they could throw a bunch of very different cultures into the same basket. The fact that a lot of leftist like to dictate use of this term is really funny because all of these folks I have ever known call themselves Indians or by their tribal names (Apache, Chinook, Puyallup, Willamette, Makah, Comanche, Mohawk, Maya, etc..)
-2- This brings up the reality that you are not discussing a cohesive group with a single common history any more than Europeans or Asians are single groups with common histories. It would be ridiculous to speak as if the Norwegians have a common history with Greeks or Italians, or to act like Chinese, Indian, and Japanese histories are all the same.
-2a- For example, not all of the tribes had anything to do with the bison
-2b- For example, not all of the tribes were put on reservations
-2c- For example, many of the tribes were not destroyed by European or American settlers. Some were conquered, displaced, or killed off by the Huron peoples, for example. In fact, many of the tribes engaged in exactly the sort of conquest against other tribes that the Europeans and American armies engaged in. The Mejica (Azteca) for example engaged in wars of conquest, finally ended by Cortez' conquest of the Mejica.
-2d- Lots of these folks intermarried with settlers. My son (step) is part Blackfoot.
-3- Not all Indians live on the Res. Not all Indians want to live on the Res.
-4- Indians who do not live on the Res prosper in the macrosociety to the same degree as anybody else. Many adopt the macrocultture, go to college or work in the trades, etc., and have the same sorts of lives as other Americans, including being happy they live in a modern industrial/technological society. Many I knew hated camping and were glad not to live in teepee/lodge, etc.
-5- None of what you are referring to happened to people currently alive. Acting like it happened to them is like acting like the current French are victims of both the Goths who conquered the Gauls, and the Franks who conquered and displaced the Goths.
What you say is basically correct, but it does not change the fact that the europeans brought diseases, invasive species, and violence to the america's and caused the EXTINCTION OF ENTIRE SPECIES AND TRIBES OF PEOPLE!!!!!
I am still angry, because the land I live in would be much different if the europeans at least did things differently, the fact remains that they destroyed a pristine ecosystem and killed and stole from my people and their culture continues to destroy the environment to this day.
What you say is basically correct, but it does not change the fact that the europeans brought diseases, invasive species, and violence to the america's and caused the EXTINCTION OF ENTIRE SPECIES AND TRIBES OF PEOPLE!!!!!
I am still angry, because the land I live in would be much different if the europeans at least did things differently,
I appreciate your feelings, and agree that it would have been nice had there been foreknowledge of how all this could play out. That way there could have been a plan to ensure that three centuries of technological development did not roll over the landscape to make it less fertile, less clean, and less beautiful.
That is not how history works. Individuals make individual choices that result from their personal needs, capabilities (or lack thereof), and ignorance. All these choices are uncoordinated, and many of them compound upon each other, so the chaotic nature of the changes results in widespread destruction.
For example, the impact of invasive species was not understood until the 20th century, AFTER folks realized that Darwin was not just some kook. You can hardly blame people bringing pigs from Europe in the 1650s for ignorance of something that was not even postulated until the 1850s.
Some of it is unavoidable, like the disease. That was nobody's fault in most cases. The natural selection for those who can survive or resist the diseases is a net positive after a few generations. Folks on the Res don't generally die of influenza or chicken pox anymore. Your descendants will be far more resilient than your ancestors.
In other cases, the industrial mindset was destructive because of the senseless value of "Progress" regardless of the cost. The damming of the Hetch Hetchie is an all too typical example of what was so obvious a sacrifice of beautiful place to an industrial ideal.
Folks still do this. Unfortunately, many people who SAY they want to protect the environment are unwilling to pay the cost. The Libtards on the American left are typical of this. Despite their supposed concern for the environment, most of them still drive, use iPhones, try to extend their own lifespans, have multiple kids, and argue that the US should have uncontrolled immigration (all of which increases the population pressure on the landscape. And make the situation worse.
The most environmentally sensible immigration policy is to end all immigration now, and send everyone who is not a US citizen to their countries of origin immedieately.
they destroyed a pristine ecosystem
The American ecosystem was NOT pristine in 1600. There are strong indications that the quarter billion pre-Colombian Americans had significant environmental impacts. Multiple species went extinct between first human settlements 20,000 years ago and first European settlements.
Species that were likely hunted to death in North America before Europeans include:
-Giant beaver
-Most of the big cats including the Lion and Saber tooth cat
-Dire wolf
-Short face bear
-Ground sloth
-Tapir (North American)
-Stag Moose
-Mastodon
-Wooly Mammoth
Part of the problem with this issue is that it cannot be divided into heroes and villains by categories like European and Indian. People screwed up on all sides going way back.
Two of the most consistently demonstrable truths are:
People have always treated each other abysmally. This is true of all cultures.
Humans are a stupid and destructive animal.
Neither of us chose when and where to be born, nor did we choose our cultures. You and I are equally innocent of the idiocy and brutality of our ancestors and others who came before. We were equally born into a world that should have been better cared for by those who came before.
Yeah, (I) would be angry, I think YOU would be too.
Doubtful.
I do not know what your ancestry is, but if you have African or Eurasian ancestors, it is GUARANTEED that in your family history are EXACTLY the same sort of invasions, conquests, displacements, enslavements, etc. that happened to the Indian tribes you are speaking "on behalf of." Doubtless your ancestors took their turns as both conquered and conquerors. People have been doing this EVERYWHERE for a long time. So, drop the self-righteous BS as if the Indians got a worse deal than your ancestors or mine.
Modern Indians carrying around grievances several generations old is VOLUNTARILY and UNNECESSARILY foolish and self destructive.
Seriously, how many English folks are still pissed off about the Norman conquest, or the previous invasions by the Saxons, Romans, and Celts.
I don't have to see Him to know Him, I will see Him soon. The spirits which your tribe believes in are nothing new; they are unholy and not hidden from people who want to trust, fear, or dwell with them. They are demons which may at times appear as angels of light. They cannot save you. They will be confined forever in the lake of fire soon, and you will be with them if you will not believe God Himself died for you, for your sins, as the Son of God who gave Himself for you so that if you will believe on Him and receive Him by faith as He is, God the only Savior, you will be born of His Spirit and have His life, eternal life, the promise of God.
Oh....and by the way: your tribe and other American tribes lost their land because they followed false gods. God had a plan for America and today America is turning away from God and likely to lose its Constitutional freedom soon. God will deal with America the same as He did when your tribes controlled it.
I did not set forth any argument, I simply stated facts. It is you who is arguing. Try reading my post again, and maybe you can pose a coherent response rather than a bunch of silly rabbit trail garbage.
I was not talking to you. I understand you feel that you cannot end up in the fire of Hell and you don't care if you are wrong....so you are extremely nasty to a person like me who cares enough to tell you that you are wrong, God loves you and wants you to be saved from Hell.
You love your sin more than life, so enjoy it while you can if you think it's as good as it will get for you. Isn't that what you want me to say?
When it happened, sure. Nowadays, however, they are equal citizens of the U.S. and have the same rights, freedoms and opportunities that everyone else has.
I was born in America, I'm pretty sure that makes me a native American.
I don't mind you eurofags coming over, as long as you love the American spirit and at least put forth the effort to learn the language as best you can.
Some of the hardest workers I ever met were Polish immigrants in Chicago. I love you people, you add to the cultural richness of America! We're the melting pot. My uncle married a Polish girl too, I like the way ya'll do Christmas!
Then you get people talking about cultural appropriation and stuff... Screw you people, America is going to pirate the shit out of your culture and rub it in your face. You should be flattered. We do it because we think your culture is charming. Maybe if it bothers you that much, you can file out the necessary paperwork to become the 51st state.
Europeans brought modern medicine and industrialization to the americas, what did the natives bring? stone clubs and peyote? bwahahahahaha you cretinous retch.
Fuck you Haytham, the Europeans brought diseases, genocide, pollution, invasive species, idiotic backwards cultural customs and beliefs that teach them that it is man's right to destroy the earth...I could go on and on...
The europeans where good at making tools, that's about it, it all comes down to making fancier tools i.e "technology"
But the natives and all the primitive people of the world have something you lack...they are a part of the ecosystem and know how to live in balance, whereas european culture sees itself as separate with nature. That is why you will never understand how nature works and you would never survive without your precious modern medicine and industrialization. You pathetic domesticated weakling.
Every serious civil rights violation against blacks in American history was by white Democrats, from Jim Crow, to slavery, to the creation of the KKK, to the assasinations of MLK and Malcolm X. And for good measure throw in the Trail of Tears and the Japanese prison camps during WWII. And for a final good measure they voted in Robert Byrd, the kkk member from 1953 to his death in 2010. Hillary Clinton claims he was her mentor...
Thanks to your old white male presidents, there are no natives left
1)There are millions of Native Americans. What are you smoking?
2)And then a black man became President and sat back as North Dakota natives were hosed, beaten and attacked by the military and cops while he waited weeks to even acknowledge anything. If he'd had the chance he woud have given our lands to the North Africans and Arabs. Imperialism knows no skin color.
Of course they were. The Democrats stole free labor from slaves, took Native American land by force, are using Mexicans for cheap labor now, and are moving in more and more foreign people to Native America like the imperialist colonialists they have always been.
That, ladies and gents, is the stupidest fallacy of American history in the world! You forgot an entire period of history(Lyndon B Johnson). Look him up, I'm not going to give ignorant people like you answers for free.
That, ladies and gents, is the stupidest fallacy of American history in the world
1)Hey nomenclature, the white elitist supremacist. Johnson erases the fouls of the Democrats as much as mindless Merkel erases the history of the Nazis. Meaning? It doesn't. It's the equivalent of claiming that Jimmy Carter was pseudo normal, thus the racist past of the left magically didn't happen. Of course we both know that you won't be addressing the Democratic party's racist past because you can't. And you can't because their history reaks of racism that is beyond the pale, and Republicans were who opposed them.
2)If you want to explain why the Democrats voted Robert Byrd of the KKK into the government from 1953 to his death in 2010, go ahead.
3)Now explain why "racist" Democrat Congressmen and Senators didn't have any mass migration to the right ever in the last 70 years.
Nomenclature puppet: That, ladies and gents, is the stupidest fallacy of American history in the world.
No wonder the left seeks to avoid political debate at all costs. Why bother? Members of the left are not interested in having a debate about policy. They are not interested in debating what is right or wrong for the country or debating history itself. They are interested in debating you personally. They are interested in castigating you as a nasty or stupid human being because you happen to disagree. This is what makes leftists leftists: an unearned sense of moral superiority over you. And if they can instill that sense of moral superiority in others by making you the bad guy, they will, because they are too weak and stupid to take your claims head on. But who can blame them? If you have no rebuttal, throw the hail mary and attack the person like an ignorant dumbass. That's obviously what a nomenclature puppet would do just before watching sex tapes of Hitler pawing at himself like a lepper.