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Should Obama shut down Guantanamo Bay?
Do we need to keep prisoners there?
Obama says he will shut down Guantanamo Bay, our long standing military base in Cuba. Because it is outside the U.S. borders it is technically not under the constitution and as such the government has done things that would probably wouldn't be able to in this country.
Recently it has been found that 12 juveniles have been held in Guantanamo bay. This and other human rights violations are a disgrace to what this country is supposed to stand for. Obama is doing the right thing by shutting Gitmo down, it should have been done sooner. The hypocrisy of such a base cannot be overstated.
If we cannot change what is going on at Guantanamo Bay then YES, by all means, shut down this atrocious, unfathomable embarrassment to Americans and what they should stand for. What the military can get away with is horrific while the Commander-in-Chief simply stands by and condones their Neanderthal treatment by not making the adjustments necessary or shutting it down and having some heads roll for allowing their men to do what they did to the alleged criminals there.
Just because Guantanamo Bay isn't on the US mainland doesn't mean that it shouldn't follow the same rules that are followed on it. It is basically an extension of the US where torture and other acts against humanity can occur without law. It is a disgrace to America and to humanity and any continued use or defense of the center and the actions taken part in it expose hypocrisy, hate, and acceptance of fear as a tool the US can use against anyone it doesn't like for political or other motives. Shutting down Guantanamo Bay is a great move by Obama and gives hope for a better United States.
...or because you believe in human rights. Many of the things we've done in Guantanamo bay are atrocious. Torture shouldn't be used on anybody, terrorist or not.
Also not everyone at Guantanamo Bay is guilty. After 9/11 the U.S. reacted very rashly and threw in a lot of people who they thought were terrorists. Until recently, we hadn't even been giving these people a chance to prove their innocence because they were denied a right to trial.
they are terrorists get it through your head!!!!!!!!!! why would you not want to torture a terrorists. let me ask you another question. do you beleive in arbortion?
Would you like to have your father or your mother or your brother or your sister tortured????? And what does abortion have to do with this issue? NOTHING!
Abortion is an unrelated issue, if you want to talk about it there are plenty of debates on the subject on this site.
I wouldn't want to torture anybody because it is inhumane. Do I want to punish them for killing? Yes. Give them a trial, find them guilty and then throw them in prison. Why torture? Because you get off on knowing another human is in pain? If we do that we're no better then the terrorists.
From a strictly pragmatic perspective, torturing others gets their friends pissed off at us and guess what? Their friends become terrorists. Please take both your ignorance and simplistic arguments elsewhere.
Who said I wanted to let terrorists go? Not I! Get your facts straight.
I told you that I would be happy to discuss abortion on one of the other debates but not this one. You have yet to tell me why we should be torturing, but instead provide a straw man argument that changes the subject.
i dont think you should discuss closing guantanamo because america has many facilities throughout the world that tortures and locks up people. america has had these facilities for decades and regularly kidnaps and tortures people in many locations. if guantanamo is closed down, america will still find ways and places to do similar things. if you want to shut something down, it might as well be the cia, but that will never happen, so thats why there is no point is discussing guantanamo.
History has recorded great presidents doing way worse things.
these are people captured on the battlefield. hell, many of the ones released have been either recaptured or shot in combat... why? because THEY'RE TERRORISTS!
they compare Bush to Hitler, but they don't compare him to FDR, who captured anyone who was a Jap and put them in prisons... fuck, they didn't even have any evidence to support that they were the enemy. just the fact that they were Japs.
This is War people, you have to start entering the reality of the situation.
Just because FDR did something wrong doesn't justify Bush's actions. The internment camps were one of the worst atrocities committed in American history (right behind the treatment of native Americans and slaves).
We're not saying that we should let the captured people go, we just need to show them basic human rights. No torture, and the right to some kind of trial. If we have evidence that they're terrorists, great! Prove it in some kind of a military court and then lock them up and throw away the key. Many of these people though are being held without any legal recourse. And guess what? Some of them are innocent!
Pyg let me ask you a question, if someone accused you of being a terrorist would you want a way to refute their claim? Would you like it to be necessary that they prove it? Or would you want to be locked up and tortured for something you didn't do?
obviously reform is needed to make sure that we capture only people on the battlefield.
but the thing is, the people let go were put under TRIAL. and they were RECAPTURED killing AMERICAN TROOPS. the thing is, saying "they were part of a cell that was shooting at my squad" is not good enough in the court of law, because as long as you did not have him with a gun in his hands, he doesn't count.
and it's good to see that you consider FDR worse than Bush... finally someone who understands.
I agree whole heartedly with your concept, I lost some good friends in Somalia, and watch them there drag our boys bodies around for display. President Bush has done the best he could with all of the negativity that he has under gone .. I for one am Proud of President Bush and believe Gitmo should stay open for as long as it is needed and there are still terrorist trying to hurt US.....A
Could you show me the article your talking about...I believe you I'm just curious.
The internment camps were worse then anything Bush ever did, but FDR still had some redeeming qualities. Bush on the other hand...not so much. Starting a war under false pretenses isn't as bad, but is still a terrible thing to do.
"This is War people, you have to start entering the reality of the situation."
Really, oh well when you put it that way, actually just out of curiosity who are you fighting against, oh yeah, a tactic called terrorism which you use more than any other nation on earth.
Your true colours are on display for all to see, good day:0
Oh yeah, I forgot that you believe that the corporate media and corporate leaders have gotten together to create war and put innocents in jail.
I will admit that the powers of the Executive Branch have gone way too far, but I still believe that being at War means we have to treat the enemy like our enemy, and not like American civilians.
Do I agree with the War? No. But that's ONLY because I feel that we could have done this all with Special Forces and not with an invasion/occupation. I would still support detaining terrorists captured in battle/mission (and if they're Americans, give them a proper trial, not a military tribunal or some bullshit like that).
"Oh yeah, I forgot that you believe that the corporate media and corporate leaders have gotten together to create war and put innocents in jail"
Id appreciate if you didn't twist and misconstrue my beleifs.
"but I still believe that being at War means we have to treat the enemy like our enemy,"
Who are you at war with, Iraq? What they do to warrant being inavded, nothing, and over 1.2 million of them now lie in the dirt.
Seriously, who do you think you are war with?
Your country has been engaged in what Charles A. Beard called "Pepetual war for perpetual peace"
The US has launced over 200 military incursions since 1945 in which the US has been the aggressor, with none of them being provoked, and very few of them being in defense of your country.
The truth is you need to have big bad boogey man to scare the population with, otherwise how could you justify your rabid imperialism?
"But that's ONLY because I feel that we could have done this all with Special Forces and not with an invasion/occupation"
Done what???
"I would still support detaining terrorists captured in battle/mission"
Who decides if their terrorists?They are given no trial, no due process of law, so what we just leave it to the government it is?
And please answer my question where this battle field is? Other people countries that you have no right whatsoever to be in.
BTW i take offense at labelling other peoples terrorists when your own military have killed, and countinue to kill more innocent civilians than any identified (by the West) terrorist group on earth. Hey were you wondering why there so much tension between you, and Pakistan:
"and if they're Americans, give them a proper trial, not a military tribunal or some bullshit like that"
Ya cause that what america is all about, i mean thats what written in your constitution, the right to set up overseas dungeons on other peoples land whose peoples don't want you there so you can intern them without trial, and commit disgusting acts of torture on them.Land of the free, home of the brave right?
Clearly you disagree with the War, but this isn't going to get anywhere if you just keep on saying "you're wrong because the war is wrong and torture is wrong."
I don't agree with you COMPLETELY on those subjects. I disagree with how we're running the war, of course, and this is why, as I stated (which confused you, for some reason, probably cause it's so agreeable) that use of Special Forces (such as black ops, seals, etc) instead of an invading/occupying military would have been the best way to deal with Osama Bin Laden. After 10 years of war, what ended up getting him was CIA intelligence and a SEAL team; not our invading military (he wasn't even in the country that we invaded).
I believe that elimination of terrorist leaders (who are responsible for training those who planned the attacks or for ordering the attacks) is necessary, if not for efficiency than just for the sake of principle. If we had not invaded, the casualty rate would have been far less and we most likely would just be done by now (because we wouldn't be fighting a war). There would just be some dead terrorist leaders and that's it. I don't disagree with your anti-war belief.
Do I believe that water-boarding of terror suspects is torture? No. Do I think that it has been abused? If the CIA are not lying, it has not (it's been used on a few prime suspects. Not just joe-shmoes who are captured).
as for you last statement, you ignored what i JUST said about giving American citizens the right to a trial.
As well, I believe that terrorism should be treated as a criminal act, with the use of special forces to take out major players (like Osama). The purpose of the military is to protect us from foreign enemies, but with a far more efficient military today, special forces is all we need to deal with terrorism. not an invasion, that kills far more people (American as well) in the long run.
"Clearly you disagree with the War, but this isn't going to get anywhere if you just keep on saying "you're wrong because the war is wrong and torture is wrong."
I don't just disagree with what you perceive as a war, i am challenging the very notion that there is a war.
"which confused you, for some reason, probably cause it's so agreeable"
Yes, that must be it.
"that use of Special Forces (such as black ops, seals, etc) instead of an invading/occupying military would have been the best way to deal with Osama Bin Laden"
So let me just see if i understand fully your position. You think that indiscriminate killing of unarmed individuals without ever being tried, or convicted of anything, without ever getting to see the evidence against him, this is what you favour yes?
"I believe that elimination of terrorist leaders (who are responsible for training those who planned the attacks or for ordering the attacks) is necessary, "
What about the 1.2 milllion Iraqis who died as a direct reults of the US's illegal invasion, what do you think about justice for them?
What about the 500,000 children who were starved to death based on sanctions forcibly imposed by the US prior to the 2003 war, what about justice for them?
What about the 2000-3000 civilaisn that have been killed in USA drone attacks in the last fwe years, do you think the people responsible for planning and enacting those brutal crimes deserve elimination?
"I don't disagree with your anti-war belief."
No but you beleive you are somehow morally superior to the so called "terrorists" you claim to be at war with.
Let me ask you question what is the moral difference between an IED, and drone attack?
"Do I believe that water-boarding of terror suspects is torture? No."
Oh right so you've been waterboarded and are speaking from experience, sorry about that;-)
Why not try it before you reach such a conclusion, hmm? Just a thought.
"No. Do I think that it has been abused? If the CIA are not lying, it has not (it's been used on a few prime suspects. "
So the people that have died in custody without trial, thats ok, the people that have been held for years and set free jsut for being muslim, water boarding, all these things are fine as long as you beleive you're fighting the terrorists, ya?
"it's been used on a few prime suspects. Not just joe-shmoes who are captured"
So you do beleive them?
"as for you last statement, you ignored what i JUST said about giving American citizens the right to a trial."
Americans don't have the right to trial, and if they do its its being afforded to them as the article about eh assassination proves, and aren't you supposed to offer criminals fair trial, regardless of origin?
"As well, I believe that terrorism should be treated as a criminal act,"
So you belevie america should be labelled the greatest terrorist nation on earth, and all the leaders who endorsed Iraq put on trial just like in Nuremberg. well i think we just found some common ground;-)
"The purpose of the military is to protect us from foreign enemies,"
Al Quida never presented an existentialthreat to the US, what they were was a convenient tool used to perpetuate a war industry of the ruling corporate elite that know if they US citizens can be rendered afraid they can be rendered passive.
The military is an extension of rapacious power, and shall remain so until the people take back their democracy.
Once again, ignoring that al-qaeda does exist and has attacked us isn't going to help, especially when you say "ya see, it comes down to greedy people who are brainwashing us."
Never been water-boarded. Also never been bungie jumping. Point?
And you keep on ignoring me when I say that I'm against the invasion/occupation. But I suppose, as stated, it's too agreeable to acknowledge.
And I believe that my life is more important than a terrorist's life, sure. Not because I'm morally superior or w/e, it's merely because I do not hold any value in their life. If I am threatened by a terrorist attack (like 9/11 or some shit) I feel that it's okay to kill those behind the attacks.
Also (and I think i'm raping a rotting horse over here), I am AGAINST the invasion for it is unnecessary. We could have killed those responsible and avoided many lost lives if we stuck with special forces.
"Once again, ignoring that al-qaeda does exist and has attacked us isn't going to help,"
I'm not ignoring their existence, im saying their existence is in no way a threat to the existence of the US.
I mean you talk like this attacked came out of clear blue sky, anyone who takes reality seriously knows that the planes that flew out of the sky on 9/11 flew out of a swamp of hatred generated by US actions in the arba world for decades, to deny this is to deny reality.
As for 9/11 itself, well im not even going to go there but i think we can both agree the whole thing was far from transparent, and government collusion, or at the very least severe incompetence are very likely.
"Never been water-boarded. Also never been bungie jumping. Point?"
My point is obvious, your opinion that water boarding is not torture ins't worth shit as long as you haven't been water boarded yourself, its really that simple. It's equivalent to saying; "Ive never been bungie jumping, but i don't think its that exciting"
"And you keep on ignoring me when I say that I'm against the invasion/occupation."
I agree with you on that but you seem to think that there is some war going on in defense of the US, that is simply hogwash.
"If I am threatened by a terrorist attack (like 9/11 or some shit) I feel that it's okay to kill those behind the attacks."
So you feel its ok to kill all those that have been killed by US actions since 9/11, you feel that the US did nothing to antagonise anyone prior to the attack, and all those killed in seeking out those who "supposedly" caused it to happen is just collateral damage, and as long as they're not from the US whon gives a fuck right?
Even if this was your opinion it would still be fatally flawed given that US actions have nothing to do with stopping those who caused 9/11, or threaten US security or any other bullshit you've convinced yourself of, they are totally imperialistic, and Iraq proves it.
"We could have killed those responsible and avoided many lost lives if we stuck with special forces."
You seem to simply neglect history, and its implications, here's a refresher:
You've gone from radical to just making shit up. You're saying that because I believe in retaliation, that means that I support what the US did. No, I don't.
I believe, however, that just letting 9/11 go would be a retarded thing to do considering that even if you kicked sand in some kid's face, you wouldn't just take it if he broke all your toys.
Osama and his faggot followers are murderers, and I believe that it is important to stop them. Use of Black Ops and Special Forces DOES NOT result in collateral damage, and the fact that you seem to believe that I support air-raides and invasions just shows how you're not willing to be serious. Instead, you post your hero Noam Chamsky as if that gives you a reason ignore what I'm saying.
"You're saying that because I believe in retaliation,"
Retaliation against whom? You have said that you support the indiscriminate killing of people without trial or due processs. How do you know somebody is an enemy if there is never a case brought aginst them?
I'm not even going to comment on the analogy.
"Osama and his faggot followers are murderers"
And what the fuck are US army? Talk about hypocrisy, then again your country has made it a virtual artform. The way you talk about these "terrorists" as being such bad guys completely neglects the harsh reality of your own countries action which have been infinitely more terroristic, and infinitely more destructive in a multitude of ways, and occur with infinitely higher frequency (of the order of days).
You are simply incapable of applying the same standard you do to them, to your own countries actions.
"and I believe that it is important to stop them."
Ya they might take the capital and subjugate the population into slavery any day now.
"and the fact that you seem to believe that I support air-raides and invasions just shows how you're not willing to be serious"
YOu don't agree with them but you provide tacit support to them by your complete refusal to condemn them, and acknowledge what they are, here let me spell it out for ya:
IT'S TERRORISM ON A SCALE AL QAEDA CAN ONLY DREAM OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Instead, you post your hero Noam Chamsky as"
Actually if you'd watched the lecture you'd know it was given by Robert Fisk, Chomsky simply introduced it :P
Considering that al-qaeda is a network and that Osama took responsibility for the attack, we do not need to just capture him and give him a trial. It is enough to merely kill him.
Then again, I do not believe in international law (because it doesn't exist; who enforces it? If someone did, the US would be under trial by now).
And I see that you are pissed off at the US army, well, I'm sorry that I don't share your hatred of them. Maybe because I don't have the time to attack the only people willing to protect me from people who attacked us on our own land.
Just because their is history doesn't mean that 9/11 DIDN'T HAPPEN. it did happen. to ignore it would be, i'm sorry, retarded. Sure, how we go about it was all wrong, but saying that the other exact extreme would have been right is flat-out retarded. I don't know, maybe you're way more of a pacifist than me, but I don't believe in ideals like that. If someone attacks me, I fight back. I don't "turn the other cheek" just because maybe I deserved it. Please, I will kick their ass and make sure that they don't do it again.
How we should have done it (as I'm saying for the millionth time) is through Black Ops and Spec Ops, but clearly the American government doesn't like to listen to me. I'm sorry that the US isn't brilliant like me, but I don't see why you have to be upset with me just because I believe that those responsible for 9/11 (and even admitted that they did it) deserve anything less than death.
"Considering that al-qaeda is a network and that Osama took responsibility for the attack"
This just shows your willingness to beleive your government, i consider that naive.
"we do not need to just capture him and give him a trial."
Really what about due process, what innocent until proven guilty, and besides that Bin Laden on trial was the right to do, he had information that was best kept concealed from the US goervnments perspective, this is think is very likely.
Bin Laden is one man, do you how many you killed, or locked up for years, and tortured without trial?
"Then again, I do not believe in international law"
There is a big difference in believing in the principle of fairness, even though the system meant to implement it may not function as it should due to the influence of rapacious power, and simply acquiescing in your own passivity because you belong to the group who currently wields said power.
"And I see that you are pissed off at the US army, well, I'm sorry that I don't share your hatred of them."
Yes i know we already covered that, your a complete hypocrite who will openly condemn the actions of others while completely ignoring the much greater crimes of his own country;-)
". Maybe because I don't have the time to attack the only people willing to protect me from people who attacked us on our own land."
It isn't about attacking them, it's about ensuring the law is followed.
"Just because their is history doesn't mean that 9/11 DIDN'T HAPPEN."
Just because their is history doesn't mean that the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory cruise missile bombing didn't happen.
So do i, Al Queda and Bin Laden could have been hunted down in a legal manner with the co-operation of the international community.
"I believe that those responsible for 9/11 (and even admitted that they did it) deserve anything less than death."
Yes and you're willing to completely circumvent the principles and ideals your country is founded on in acheiving those aims, that is absolutely clear;-)
Were the Red-Coats captured and arrested or were they shot on sight? Guerrilla tactics are far from "fair" and "giving of due process". We've identified an enemy of our state, be it the Red Coats or Osama Bin Laden.
I believe you have no idea on the history and founding principles of my country.
And once again, I am against the invasion. I believe that we could have captured Osama and al-qaeda leaders in a much more efficient manner with Black and Spec Ops.
"Were the Red-Coats captured and arrested or were they shot on sight?"
I don't know how to debate with someone who thinks a comparison can be made between the american revolution and his countries actions in the middle east.
"Guerrilla tactics are far from "fair" and "giving of due process".
Your excuse is incredibly weak, your country is supposed to grant due process to a suspected criminal, this isn' the wild west, the rule of law is supposed to be respected.
"We've identified an enemy of our state, be it the Red Coats or Osama Bin Laden"
Your enemy is a necessary illusion, without him/them your population could not be kept passive, your imperislaism would be explicitly exposed in all its obscenity and hypocrisy, and the military industrial complex would lose its purported purpose.
I strongly advise you to watch the following documentary by Adam Curtis, it may help you realise how untenable your position is:
But you won't label the actions of your military "terrorism" cause you beleive you are somehow above the people that attacked you, and therein lies your incredible hypocrisy.
You have doing far worse to far greater number of people for decades, and thats exactly why the Rand corporation studies done on midde eastern public opinion post 9/11 showed most mulims felt the Us had finally tasted a small amount of their own medicine, i have to say even though i consider all killing of innocents helpless people to be dispicable, and beneath contempt its hard to disagree with the justifcation for their sentiment .
"I believe you have no idea on the history and founding principles of my country."
You are totally blind to the true motivations behind your countries actions now, never mind its history, and you don't seem to care how many people they kill, and how much destruction they cause in the process as long as your dominant position is forcibly maintained.
I don't need to take a course in american history, and constitutional law to that sending out hired killers to assassinate people you suspect of being criminals goes against the principles of your country, especially when one of thsoe assassinated without trial, evidence, conviction etc. was an ameican citizen.
Of course it was wrong to air-bomb that American citizen... I know this.
However, i do not find it to be wrong to shoot Osama in the head.
Preferably, I felt that capturing him and interrogating him would have been the best thing to do; but they killed him... w/e, better dead than alive and free.
"Of course it was wrong to air-bomb that American citizen... I know this."
So what the millions of non-US citizens?
When 50 pakistani villagers are blown to pieces in a drone attack, is that not terrorism?
Is that not an attack on sovereign terroritory, should they treat the enemy as their enemy?
"However, i do not find it to be wrong to shoot Osama in the head."
So you agree with your government suverting the course of justice?
"Preferably, I felt that capturing him and interrogating him would have been the best thing to do; but they killed him... w/e,"
W/e, thats all you have to say about, and i suppose you said w/e when your country invaded Iraq based on lies, i suppose you said w/e when 9/11 was never fully investigated, who cares right.
"better dead than alive and free."
No criminal should get away it but act like this man was convicted, you act like the information pertaining to his crimes is in the public domain, that only further illustrates your willingness to buy into your own governments bullshit.
Please watch the Adam Curtis if you get the time, its very well done. Peace out;-)
Well, no, I'm against air-bombing in general (unless it is a strategic air-raid, of course). Given that we should not have been in Iraq nor in Afghanistant in the first place, all those lost lives are a terrible loss, no doubt. And if they wish to retaliate, that is what happens when people fight each other. I don't see it as "w/e" in total, but just in the case of killing Osama instead of capturing him so that we could get information out of him.
If I were in charge, Osama would be in a prison and we would be finding ways to make him talk. We would not have invaded any countries and we would have stuck strictly to Black Ops, taking out or capturing any of the key members of what we felt were dangerous terrorist organizations.
Unfortunately, I am not in charge. Do I think my leaders suck? Of course, but that's a problem with all governments that decide to try to change the world, and I'm not just going to take your side (some dude who thinks that America is the Great Satan and the terrorists are just poor farmers who are a result of all the Great Satan's works) just because I disagree with how the US has decided to handle the entire aspect.
"If I were in charge, Osama would be in a prison and we would be finding ways to make him talk. "
Osama "talking" is the very reason hes dead and not alive. You buy into all the government bullshit in spite of the fact that it has been proved that they lied pathologically.
". Do I think my leaders suck? Of course, but that's a problem with all governments that decide to try to change the world"
I find myself straining to come with adequate responses to what i consider your incredible ignorance and naiveté :(
"and I'm not just going to take your side "
This isn't about taking sides this is and what isn't true.
"some dude who thinks that America is the Great Satan and the terrorists are just poor farmers who are a result of all the Great Satan's works"
I don't view america as the great satan, but i acknowledge a simple truth that you seem incapable because of nationalism to acknowledge.
Amerca has caused the deaths of more innocent civilians than any other nation on earth in recent times, now you can come with whatever clever rationalisaiton you like to justify that barbarism but in the real world that makes the US the greatest terrorist nation on earth.
BTW i don't consider Islamic extremists poor farmers, the fact that you have to resort to ridiculing me by twisting my views really only proves my point for me.
"The world is fucked, not just the US."
I agree wholeheartedly with this, the world of full of bad guys, but if you're capable of calling a spade a spade then you'll realise there is a "biggest bad guy" at any particular time, and in this narrow slice of history that title rightly goes to the US
I don't think he should shut it down, because then they would be on U.S. ground or in a foreign nation. If they are on U.S. ground and escape then they would be on the loose here in America. If they are in a foreign nation and if that nation support's terrorism then they could let the person go to weak havoc on the world again.
While I completely understand what you're saying we cannot go on with Gitmo the way it is! It's a disgrace to human decency and if it were the other way around, with our people being tortured instead of theirs, I can only wonder what those of you who are against shutting this atrocity down would have to say.
Torture is terrible, and I don't think anyone likes it or supports it... but heres a question. Your two kids are going to die in 3 hours because of x person, and you know he is going to kill them, and he says he'll do it, but you can stop it if he talks?
This is an extremely complex situation. Almost all of the people in Guantanamo Bay were captured "on the military field," and the rest were apprehended trying to pursue acts of terror on American soil and were not citizens. As sad as it is, these people have no rights. Geneva created a way for them to have rights, a way that would ensure death for the least number of innocent people: the uniformed soldier. By donning the uniform, you are given certain legal rights, because you are agreeing to protect the lives of innocent people.
These people purposely forfeited the rights granted them in Geneva. There are no laws protecting them.
Do I support torture? not really.
Oh, and humiliation isn't torture. We need to make sure to define our terms.
Well If you know for a fact that two kids are going to die because of the x person, and he knows something that can stop this. Well we never do know that now do we? And also, there are several cases where muslim men, who were not citizens, yet did not have a criminal record, were put into Guantanamo Bay, and tortured mercilessly. They were waterboded, which is a simulation of drowning, tied up and attacked by dogs, and had their religion defamed and disrespected. I regard the religion part as torture, can you imagine if a devoted christian was trying to pray in jail, and your jailer comes in and pisses on the bible, and rips it in half taking it away? That is torture. Also how would you feel if every american soldier who killed an innocent in Iraq was captured and tortured for no reason?
No they are trying to kill us.By law they are not solders but terrorists and if it is shut down then they must be taken to America were we cant make them talk due to the fifth amendment.
Noooo...check your legal facts. What we would do is give them a trial under a military court. Since they are not citizens they would not be subject to the 5th amendment, and a military court uses different rules of evidence then typical U.S. courts.
How would you suggest we get them to talk? Torture?
Are you saying that if we leave them in Guantanamo Bay we would have to try them under Cuban Law? Have you never heard of Military Law Locke? We can't MAKE them talk if they don't want to...or were you suggesting something vile?
I don't want the terrorist in a prison in my state, NY sure doesn't want the trials in their state, we cant just let them go to fight and kill American soldiers again we need to keep it open and Obama knows it! another broken promise for the left.
Keep it running, what are there chances of escaping from there... NONE, there on a friggen island and that is where they should hold all there trials ! I f we let these sorry bastards go, they will just be planting more attacks and planting more IED's to kill our boys. PERIOD
63 prisoners returned to Iraq and once again killed American service men. So unless your a Muslim Jihad terrorist this is the only answer an American could give. How do they treat their POW's? Oh, that's right they behead, mutilate and kill them. The only way I could see shutting it down would be line them all up against the wall and let loose with a .50 cal. A MUCH MORE HUMANE WAY TO DIE.
Nothing anyone of you have said holds a candle to what they have done to Americans taken prisoner. As the 9 Army women found in the Baghdad dumps cut from ear to ear.
if we shut it down then we have to bring the terrorists here and it would be very expensive. That also means the terrorists will have to be given a trial and that means they will be granted rights that only belong to American citizens.
BTW terrorism has athe defintion: "“the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).
-F.B.I.
By this defintion your country is the greatest terrorist nation on earth, and has been for quite some time, but im sure you don't think so.
