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I wonder how many people who say "well of course not because then rapists and child molesters can go in" are the same people who say "No there shouldn't be gun control, criminals will have guns anyways!"
Do you seriously.....seriously think that a symbol on the door will deter a person who is looking to prey on a child? Really?
Those kids just want to go to the bathroom in peace, why is it that some people are almost "too" interested in who goes where to defecate?
If i am not mistaken you have made claim to have a daughter so in your mind you don't have any problem with a confused Transgender that has entered the same restroom as your daughter.
Well, based off the question you posed, with very little additional information.
Nope. That transgender, or "confused transgender" as you said, is just trying to go to the bathroom. Or are you trying to suggest that all transgender's are up to something nefarious?
Let me be clear for you. If I had even the slightest suspicion that someone, male or female was up to something, I'd be right there standing by the sink while my child was in the stalls.
You don't want a confused Transgender in the restroom with your daughter but you believe all other parents should accept the idea even though you don't.
Your question: If i am not mistaken you have made claim to have a daughter so in your mind you don't have any problem with a confused Transgender that has entered the same restroom as your daughter.
My answer: Nope. I would not mind if a confused transgender or transgender went to the bathroom in the ladies restroom.
Your original question in case you already forgot it:
If i am not mistaken you have made claim to have a daughter so in your mind you don't have any problem with a confused Transgender that has entered the same restroom as your daughter.
You described the individual as trans-gendered. Now you are simply stating male, without enough information to go off they are different questions. You are also now implying, by using male vs. girl, that it is an older male such as an adult going into a little girls bathroom. Also. Different scenario. A young boy who is trans-gendered going into the same bathroom as my young girl for the purposes of using the bathroom is fine.
Nothing forgotten but what is obvious is you have no problem having boys in the girls restroom in a school setting and there is now way for you to defend that.
Nothing forgotten but what is obvious is you have no problem having boys in the girls restroom in a school setting and there is now way for you to defend that.
I mean I know your reading comprehension is a bit challenged but this is taking the cake. You tried to reword your question to create a different scenario and failed. I stand by my answers, not what you are trying to reword them to be.
Read again what I wrote. Come on, you can do it. I'll tell you what, you just take all the time you need to keep reading until you finally see what I said.
Because, only liberal nations have a problem with it. Other cultures that don't baby and encourage minority oppression olympics have none of these bs issues. Quit teaching those with male chromosomes that they have female chromosomes, when they don't. If you have male chromosomes, hit the male bathroom. It's not that people oppose it that is disturbing, but that people support it. Will we have trans-species next? How about tran-object. I'm a squid. I'm a lamp. Give me squid-lamp rights as a persecuted minority... Give me a break. Someone has to bring the left back to sanity.
There are a lot of arguments saying that perverts will use this as an opportunity, but what about trans women who have to go into a male bathroom? They are much more likely to be preyed on.
Nope. If you were a 115 pound female, you should consider something.. For example? A 6'8" person who was born male and is straight goes in the bathroom with you, fully intending to rape you. You catch him in there and report him, but... he claims gender confusion, and is let go out of "tolerance". He then goes in at a later date, and no one can say anything... and he rapes your daughter.
If a man rapes someone they're not going to be let off because they're transgender. That's the most idiotic thing I've heard all day.
If you're worried about people's safety, try this one: a biological man who is a transgender woman is not allowed into the female toilet. She goes into the male toilet. She gets brutally beaten and probably raped herself for being a "freak".
You can't claim "oh, I'm looking out for people's safety!" when you're ignoring one of the fundamental reasons why people need these bathrooms.
Sure, sure. And what happens when he claims gender rape confusion and species confusion. Do we charge him as a mentally deficient squid? And what if he's a minority AND a squid.... Oh my god....
Liberals are so far gone in the modern era, that we aren't sure that it actually is ridiculous. We used to say that tran males playing female sports would never happen and laughed. Well guess what...
His point is not that rape is legal. His point is a man could walk into a womens restroom molest her etc and there is no proof of it. could just say he was there for gender confusion and the women has no proof of molestation
so gloves real cheap. pedo or molester just goes and molests a women in the bathroom how are you going to prove that? obviously if there is a witness but we are assuming they are not that stupid.
Why is this a new problem that's created? Women can molest other women, you know. And men can molest other men. They already go to the bathroom with eachother. How do you expect anyone to prove molestation if that happens? We should just ban bathrooms, right?
The issue is that the situation of a man going into a women or women going into a mans restroom will have an excuse and can more easily get away with molestation etc by claiming gender confusion was the reason for being in a different bathroom. The issue is not molestation in general.
Do you understand why trans people even care about this issue at all?
None of what you've said suggests to me any reason why trans people shouldn't be able to use the bathroom of their choice. Your argument is along the lines of "if women walk alone outside, they're more likely to be harassed. Therefor, we should make it illegal for women to walk alone outside."
Aren't Progressives concerned about the women ? The Progressive narrative is all about the women and the children but that doesn't seem to matter on bathroom issues !
How does only trans people not caring about this issue effect my impact at all? What I listed could be a very real situation. And we are not talking about women walking outside that has nothing to do with this situation.
Hm on a side note I do appreciate you are debating and not throwing insults and rude gestures : ) also I may have missread or maybe you changed the comment I truly thought you said they don't care or somthing along those lines with that said
I would imagen they care because for some reason it matters to them the symbol on the wall which they use the restroom. Just use a stall of the original gender and your good.
To prevent life scarring of molestation and rape yes I suggest a strong man who says he is a women has no excuse to enter a womens restroom.
Take this as you will I will site if asked ofc hence burden of truth but there were headlines about a male who changed gender then wrestled in the women league and won nationals because he simply has more muscles changing those specific organs does not change muscles mass so even a trans male could go into the women restroom and have an even greater reason to be in the women restroom molest a women and if she testifies against him he could say she just hates trans people and is seeking the opportunity to speak against them.
my issue here is mainly molestation and rape. There are other negativeness but truly those two things get to me the most on this issue.
I would imagen they care because for some reason it matters to them the symbol on the wall which they use the restroom.
The issue here is the 'some reason.' Because it's not just 'some reason,' it is a reason of vital importance to them living their life honestly, healthily, and happily.
you only responded to one thing I said-----------------------------------------
Well, I think it's the most important aspect, and something that needs to be addressed before any of your other arguments can really be made.
If you agree with the idea that it is vital for trans people to use the bathroom of their choice (an idea that we can discuss) then the 'molestation' argument becomes pretty exasperating: trans women can't go to the bathroom because you think the only thing stopping men from molesting women is a sign on a door?
Point? If you were born with the chromosomes of a man, you shouldn't need me to tell you which bathroom is yours. It's the "Men's". And if you can't figure that much out, I hope you don't vote or raise children. In reality, we don't care if your gay, tran, etc etc. Just go to your designated bathroom like a civilized human being in a country with laws and rules. Why? Because if you push this issue, you simply give pedophiles and rapists a loophole around the system to enter the bathroom with your daughter and molest or rape her.
"If you were born with the chromosomes of a man, you shouldn't need me to tell you which bathroom is yours. "
Which chromosomes make you a man? It it just people with an XY chromosome?
What about people who have XY chromosomes, but have complete androgen insensitivity syndrome, which means their bodies don’t respond at all to male hormones, so they are born with female bodies and usually live their lives as females.
What about people who have XX chromosomes, but have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which causes an unusually high level of virilizing hormones in utero, causing them to develop masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals.
What about women with Turner syndrome who only have one X chromosome? They have less-developed female sexual characteristics than other women.
What about people who have XX chromosomes in some cells, and XY in others? People with more than 90% XY (male) genetic material have given birth.
What about people with Klinefelter syndrome, which causes them to have extra X chromosomes, like XXY, XXXY, or XXXXY. They have low levels of testosterone, causing them to have less-developed masculine sexual characteristics and more-developed feminine characteristics.
What about people with extra Y chromosomes?
So tell me, which ones of those are male and which ones are female, and what criteria did you use to make that determination?
Look, I totally get your concern, and agree with it to a certain point. If a person is not living their life as the gender they claim to be, then they have no business going into the bathroom of the gender they don't live as. IMO, if you look like a male, then use the male bathroom, and if you look like a female, use the female bathroom. Gender is a very tricky issue, both genetically and psychologically. It's definitely not as black and white as you seem to think.
So, then, even if your statistics are correct, you're still only talking about one percent of the population? Since when should policy that affects all people be based on the one in a hundred people who might care to use it?
I never said I supported the policy. I'm actually against the policy, because I think it's far too broad. I was simply pointing out that gender isn't a black and white issue, and that Brontoraptor's claim that, "If you were born with the chromosomes of a man, you shouldn't need me to tell you which bathroom is yours." is fallacious because it assumes that the only chromosome combinations are XX and XY.
I checked some of the numbers and was surprised by how much variation there is. I think a lot of the variation is due to where each study was done. Some countries probably have a higher incidence of these things than others. I've included the various numbers I found.
Thanks for providing evidence supporting my claim. Your link says, "Humans, as well as some other organisms, can have a chromosomal arrangement that is contrary to their phenotypic sex; for example, XX males or XY females (see androgen insensitivity syndrome). Additionally, an abnormal number of sex chromosomes (aneuploidy) may be present, such as Turner's syndrome, in which a single X chromosome is present, and Klinefelter's syndrome, in which two X chromosomes and a Y chromosome are present, XYY syndrome and XXYY syndrome.[2] Other less common chromosomal arrangements include: triple X syndrome, 48, XXXX, and 49, XXXXX."
What about people who have XX chromosomes, but have congenital adrenal hyperplasia, which causes an unusually high level of virilizing hormones in utero, causing them to develop masculine sexual characteristics, including masculinized genitals
Gender is a very tricky issue, both genetically and psychologically. It's definitely not as black and white as you seem to think.
Nobody is 50/50. If you have a weenie men's restroom. You have a vagina women's bathroom. If you somehow had both, rid yourself of one, and whatever is left go there.
the percentage of people you are referring too is so astoundingly low that I don't think it can be used in this argument. this argument is directed towards trans gendered people. in my opinion if they have gone through the transition and then have no a penis or vagina depending on the person. I don't care, do what you must. but if you are a fully grown man with a penis and testicles that just wears a dress then no you shouldn't be able to walk in wherever you so please. and even people in the trans community vs the amount of non trans peoples is astonishingly low. so low to a point that you are putting the majority of people at a disadvantage just to please a VERY small minority
So without transexual laws allowing men to go into womens toilets, a pervert has to simply go in a flash a woman and promptly get arrested. With transexual laws a pervert has to dress as a woman go into the toilet flash a woman and promptly get arrested. Am I missing something?
Trans kids? Those words are a complete Progressive joke!
There is no child in this world mature enough to understnd Transgender feelings or any other feelings. HE'S A CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What's so sickening about these Progressive Democrats is that they do not care about our children. They care bout gettng votes from the LGBTQXYZABC lobby. It's all about money and votes and our daughters are their guinea pigs!
How would you know what a child can understand. If you expect a child to make a decision about their career forever when they are 18, how can you not expect them to understand gender two years earlier? Also, you are making blatant claims with no evidence. Please state evidence for your claims that people for this only care about money and votes.
When a person is 18 he has graduated from high school and is gaining the maturity to start making decisions concerning his life. We don't evern allow people to drink until they are 21 yet the Progressive Left thinks kids in schools are mature enough to determine they are not the sex they were born with.
GET REAL!
I have followed Politics for many years now, and understand that Politicians have one priority..... GETTING REELECTED! It takes big money from their base to do so and we all know that the base of this new age Democrat Party is very Liberal and very involved with the LGBTQXYZABC agendas.
If money and votes are not the motive for the Democrat Party's fixation with forcing every public school to allow boys in our dughter's bathrooms, then you tell me what it is.
With all the serious problems in this nation concerning our children.... failed schools, broken homes, fatherless children, kids joining gangs, education grades falling to the world, etc. etc., why on earth is there so little effort addressing these problems?
The only effort I hear about from Democrats concerning our failing grades is blocking Republican's efforts to allow school choice. Republicans are actually trying to improve our children's education rather than being fixated on LGBT agendas.
What we have is an ideological activist Democrat Party fixating on the plight of a very few so called Transgender children? These children who were born a Boy have been going into boys bathrooms since their birth and it is not an inconvienence to keep doing so. It's amazing the Democrat'a party's fixation on such minor issues ESPECIALLY when they know it is very controversial to MILLIONS of parents who want no dysfunctional boys going in their daulghter's bathrooms.
Democrats are constantly trying to push through new laws in the supreme court, that would force EVERY public school to allow boys in our daughter's bathrooms, just as they forced through new laws mandating that every State change their marriage laws?
This Democrat Party has been taken over by Liberal activists and you are truly blind not to see it. If you are not blind to what is going on, then you are one of these arrogant activists trying to force your political correct ideology onto all Americans.
When a person is 18 he has graduated from high school and is gaining the maturity to start making decisions concerning his life. We don't even allow people to drink until they are 21 yet the Progressive Left thinks kids in schools are mature enough to determine they are not the sex they were born with. GET REAL!
Once again, you haven't provided evidence that people are not mature enough to decide their gender. But maybe you would rather that kids kill themselves because they are depressed and cannot get help with their identity.
I have followed Politics for many years now, and understand that Politicians have one priority..... GETTING REELECTED!
Of course! Obviously politicians want to get re-elected, but you are acting like this only applies to liberal politicians, which is very naive. Obviously all politicians want to get re-elected regardless of party. They try to win the votes of various people groups, that's how politics works.
With all the serious problems in this nation concerning our children.... failed schools, broken homes, fatherless children, kids joining gangs, education grades falling to the world, etc. etc., why on earth is there so little effort addressing these problems?
You name all these problems, and yet only the left is doing anything to help. Just saying, most conservative parties are not interested in school mental health programs and other similar things. But regardless, these other problems don't make transgender kid's problems magically disappear, they are just one thing we need to add to your list of problems with this country. When we try to help with one issue, you point out all the other ones and try to say this one is somehow less valid.
Democrats are constantly trying to push through new laws in the supreme court, that would force EVERY public school to allow boys in our daughter's bathrooms, just as they forced through new laws mandating that every State change their marriage laws?
Personally, I think a good solution to this whole issue would be to require one-person or family bathrooms in every building, but that isn't the issue of the debate. In most states, to get a legal gender change, you need to have had a sex-change operation. This would literally get rid of and trans woman's ability to rape a cis girl. You seem to think this means anyone who wants to can walk into a woman's bathroom. This wouldn't allow just anyone into any bathroom, this would only allow people who went through the process. As for marriage equality, this isn't the subject of the debate, but why not? At least for the bathroom argument, I can see why you are concerned, it will directly affect who goes in your bathrooms. But for the marriage bill, how could it possibly hurt you? no one if forcing you into a same sex marriage, so why is it an issue?
As it stands right now, Democrats want the right for any boy or man, who thinks he is a girl, to dress up like a girl or woman and go into a girl's bathroom. THIS IS INSANE WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY PERVERTED IDIOTS WHO WOULD LOVE TO GO INTO GIRLS BATHROOMS.
If some person goes through all the sex change operations, then we will know he is not just some pervert and of course they will go into a girls bathroom.
The Left wants anyone who deems themselves a different sex to be able to go into a girls bathrom even if they did not have the sex change operations.
We have pyschologists who can deal with gender disorders. It's not a place for schools. GET A BRAIN PLEASE!
What's so sick about this extremist Political correct party, is that no longer can we simply state the obvious. These disoreders are not something that should be taught to our children as being natural normal thing. Not everything should be taught as being normal! There are disorders and should be treated as such.
THESE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES SHOULD ALWAYS BE KEPT OUT OF OUR CHILDREN'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
There was no wording whereby only people who have gone through sex change operations would be able to go into girls bathrooms. How many kids do you think woud have gone through sex change operations>
Doctors tell people kids should not get these operations, SO ASK YOURSELF WHY DEMOCRATS WANT TO FORCE EVERY PUBLIC SCHOOL TO ALLOW TRANSGENDER BOYS IN GIRLS BATHROOMS.
There is no child in this world mature enough to understnd Transgender feelings or any other feelings. HE'S A CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You think kids can't understand their gender? Wouldn't that mean that we shouldn't assign kids to be any gender until they're "mature" enough to understand it for themselves?
And before you pull out the genetailia argument, what do you suggest for intersex children?
You just lost any chance of respect for any of your psitions on these issues.
To even suggest we should not assign the OBVIOUS gender of our children makes you someone I will not waste time debating.
Talk about dysfunctional insecurities! If you can't just be secure with who you say you are without forcing everyone else to embrace it, then what can I say. You are going to have a long hard life worrying what everyone else thinks.
If someone is indistinguishable as to their sex, they need to pick a sex by a certain appropriate age, have it on their ID, as everyone else does, and use the bathroom on said ID.
If someone is indistinguishable as to their sex, they need to pick a sex by a certain appropriate age, have it on their ID, as everyone else does, and use the bathroom on said ID.
Why? They clearly don't belong to either category, which means that there aren't just two categories. Why does picking one make sense?
Because creating a third bathroom in every building in America would cost an unsermountable amount of money. Especially seeing it would only cover .000000000000000001% of the population. Pick a gender that you "feel" and move on with it. This is grown up world, not Liberal fairytale land. We aren't going to pick up the entire nation to accomodate the discomfort of almost no one numbers-wise. If you aren't comfortable in either bathroom you need a therapist.
The next thing you know, people will use gender identity to get past obscure laws. And then it will be species confusion. And then gender confusion...confusion. and then gender reversal confusion. I'll get paid leave for an alleged period, and then you won't be able to prosecute me because I claim to be a whale because I have no hands. Hey, darwinism caught up with me. I'm just a confused intemediary species. It's not my fault I ate all the shrimp at red lobster for free. I couldn't help it. Don't persecute or oppress me. Study me and pay me for it, for god's sake, you nasty bigots.
