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I am sort of on the fence with this, but I lean towards monoculture.
I don't feel that every culture or way of life is acceptable, you have to draw the line somewhere. Where and how you draw the line is a matter of personal taste and philosophical grounding, of course.
I would like, through education, mass media, law, and economic incentive/disincentive, to see a monoculture with many viewpoints. If that makes sense.
To give an example:
I'd like to see a complete breakdown of racial, ethnic, national, religious, gender, and sexual cultural division and instead see people grouped by patterns of thought and conceptual understandings. In other words, political and philosophical differences; which I find to be meaningful. I am willing to make an exception for religious thought, though the two major religions in the western world have very little intellectual value. Islam and Christianity seem to be rooted in ethnic/cultural upbringing and not any real thought or honest exploration of a man or woman's spiritual inclinations.
I would love to see some religious diversity, but I don't think that will happen until the monopoly of Christianity in North and South America and Islam/Christianity in the Middle East and Europe are broken.
I am not atheist by the way, but at this point "religion" is just another word for "ignorance" when living in the states. Until we see a renaissance of religious thought (which will hopefully be brought about by the breakdown of cultural barriers) I'd rather have religion excluded from intellectual promotion endeavors until it is safe to assume it won't just be a promotion of monotheism (which is an inherent intolerance of other faiths and gods as well as thought itself).
I like the amount of thought you put into your arguments.
You know, if you think about, stick enough people in one place long enough and they will run together. Even though the cultures may seem to vary a lot, they won't in another 50 years... I'm assuming.
You raise some excellent points, but I'll have to disagree with your main opinion of favour for monoculture.
Multiculturalism is obviously where we are already headed, and it is something to embrace. Other cultures are interesting, and fun to explore, and through that exploration we can hopefully learn to have a great deal more tolerance for how other people live.
Whether you feel a culture or way of life is acceptable or not is irrelevant. If those culture can fit within the laws of your country, then they have every right to exist within your borders.
I do like the romantic thought of a renaissance of religious thought, however. Well said.
1. Multicultural does not necessarily mean acceptance, in effect it is a division not a cooperation. Cultures exist only as opposed to and separated from others, that is the essence of a culture, or else it is indistinguishable and unidentifiable.
2. Multiculturalism does not seem to be either a national or global trend.
As for the first point, studies have been conducted which lead me to believe that multiculturalism breeds conflict and misunderstanding, prejudice even.
This does not come as a surprise when you look at what "culture" actually is. First and foremost it is a codified method of communicating, it includes ideas and concepts as well as specific expressions of those ideas and concepts. Of course, different cultures have different languages as well as viewpoints (not a bad thing inherently, of course).
When you have an environment, or a society, in which many cultures exist you have a situation of large numbers of people not being able to communicate effectively with one another.
It is hard to work together when you cannot even comprehend the other person's way of thinking.
The second point actually comes from your multicultural stance. If your solution to the conundrum mentioned above is multicultural education you'd find yourself within quite a vexing paradox.
Ya see, if you start teaching all of the cultures within a society about all of the other cultures you are effectively training them. They are going to adopt some of what you have taught them, each of the cultures, as they interact more and more, will merge more and more with their cultural neighbors. The more "multicultural" and open a society is, the more the cultures mix. Understanding begets merger begets monoculture, in effect.
We are seeing this all over the world, cultures are merging, dialects and languages are going extinct, nations are joining into regions and regions are coming together on a global stage.
To say the least, this cultural welding has come with the benefit of peace. Look at Europe, once a land of many cultures and languages they have found themselves joining together as "Europeans". They all speak English, all of them, and their cultures are becoming less and less distinct. Their languages survive, to a certain extent, but you can be sure that as they come together a common language will be as assumptive as a common currency.
But what do we also see in Europe? As most of the native Europeans drop their religiosity and come together immigrant Muslims are finding it hard to adapt. Conflicts have raged in France, Germany, and England as the conflict between secular western belief structures comes head to head with conservative Islam.
It is my opinion that we would find ourselves in a much better position, both in social cohesion and in thought, if we worked to demolish the artificial and arbitrary boundaries of cultural difference.
I don't, of course, mean forced rehabilitation and mind control. I do emphasize education programs and community outreach, programs that will work to bring common understandings and practices among the various groups in a society.
Only when we understand each other can we see an end to ravenous competition and conflict and the start of competitive thought and social development.
I like a lot of what you say but I disagree with some of it. For example, you write:
"To say the least, this cultural welding has come with the benefit of peace. Look at Europe, once a land of many cultures and languages they have found themselves joining together as "Europeans". They all speak English, all of them, and their cultures are becoming less and less distinct. Their languages survive, to a certain extent, but you can be sure that as they come together a common language will be as assumptive as a common currency."
Europeans do not like the fact that their cultures are becoming less and less distinct. I think they tolerate it (for now) because of the economic advantage but if their economy goes south, nationalism will rear its ugly head. I mean, the French even go so far as to make it illegal to use an English word when a perfectly good French word exists for what you're talking about.
You also write:
"But what do we also see in Europe? As most of the native Europeans drop their religiosity and come together immigrant Muslims are finding it hard to adapt. Conflicts have raged in France, Germany, and England as the conflict between secular western belief structures comes head to head with conservative Islam."
I don't think the biggest problem here is with religiosity per say as it is with conservative Islam with its Sharia law and intolerance. They just don't buy into our concept of separation between church and state. I'm all for multiculturalism but the different cultures have to accept the host country's language, and laws. Otherwise you'll end up with conflict. I tend to believe that aliens would fare better if they learned the host county's language and embraced their host country rather than claim alliance to their mother country.
Finally, you write:
"It is my opinion that we would find ourselves in a much better position, both in social cohesion and in thought, if we worked to demolish the artificial and arbitrary boundaries of cultural difference."
I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean but I don't want to loose St. Patrick's day, Cinco the Mayo and all of those party days. I know that these days cannot be merged into one day but if it could, I wouldn't mind sharing a green beer and Tequila with some Irish Mexicans ;)
For the most part Saint Patrick's day falls in with Christmas and Halloween as holidays that have pretty much lost their original meanings. Christmas is present day, Halloween is scary candy day, and Saint Patrick's is drunk day.
The Irish have long been assimilated into our culture, though they keep some traditions and they at least know where they came from their holiday is our holiday, it is mostly nostalgia and drinking not a show of ethnic pride and cultural difference.
The Mexicans will end up the same way; their holidays will become our holidays, they'll remember where they came from with pride, but for the most part they will look, act, talk, and behave like your average American.
I do know that the Europeans aren't entirely happy with their cultural mixing, but the trend is clear. The fact also remains that they work well together when they aren't asserting cultural independence or superiority.
I really don't see much of a difference between fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam. As the western world turns more towards secular ways of thought and governance they have turned away from severe repression of women, ethnic and religious minorities, sexual minorities, and no longer fight explicitly religious wars (or commit acts of genocide against particular faiths).
I also believe that the brand of fundamentalist Islam we are seeing nowadays is a new thing, and a regional one. How Islam is expressed (or any religious doctrine) tends to be an ethnic endeavor. Particular ethnic groups express their religion in particular ways; a Muslim in Pakistan is much different than a Muslim in Morocco. This is sort of beside the point though.
I also agree with you that immigrants should adopt their host country's language and ways as best as they can. I also think we can learn from the new inductees. There should be a cooperative effort to combine the two cultures (though the larger culture, which is actually composed of many, many cultures shouldn't be expected to do most or even half of the changing).
As for allegiance to other nations, I don't believe that is much of a problem, if anything when Mexicans or other groups wave other flags it is symbolic of their heritage, not their allegiance.
I also believe that if oppressed, a particular culture or group has every right to defend itself, even if it is new to a country or region.
1. In context of the question, the "acceptance" is at question.
2. It hasn't, you're right, but with modern technology (communication, transportation, etc.) the world is growing smaller. There will be a point at which we will either accept or revolt out of necessity.
3. "... situation of large numbers of people not being able to communicate effectively with one another". This is a different issue unless certain cultures within the whole disagree when it comes to acquiring a universal language, which in America would be english. Everyone here should know english, but I think that's common sense. Also, I think that language has more to do with "ways of thinking" than any other part of culture does (unless this include a religion as well).
4. So long as everyone participating in public education speaks english, there should be no issue with cultural differences.
5. I've learned about many cultures in school, and I have yet to adopt them. These education systems won't train people, they will just make the students aware of the cultures. If they do adopt a different culture, so what?
6. Yes, eventually, every culture that exists today will die or evolve. That's how it's always been. Look at immigrants as an example. If they are from Mexico, they might not speak very good english, they might dress like a mexican, speak like a mexican, have mexican traditions, hang out with other mexicans... but their first child in America will start closing the gap. Public education forces their children to interact with children not born of Mexican immigrants, and they will make friends and so on. They will start to adapt to American culture. This doesn't mean that they will not call themselves "mexicans" or still celebrate mexican culture with their parents, it just means that they were put into an environment that allowed them to cultivate with the rest of america without prejudice, and has changed to allow better integration.
2. Revolts are likely, we see it with people like Lou Dobbs, Bill O'Reilly, and their European counterparts. However, they are fighting against history; trends far greater than the little power they have. Nothing short of a resurgence of Fascism (true, Hitler-like Fascism) would ever be able to stem the tide. Even then, like Hitler's regime, it would fall eventually.
3. I think you looking at the superficial aspect of language, its "official" school and dictionary based context.
I think we can all agree that many kinds of people can hear the same words and phrases and come back with very different meanings, the same especially goes with cultures.
Even if we cast aside common colloquialisms we'll find the meanings of English words and phrases are taken to have radically different meanings given the cultural context.
The simple act of drinking an espresso can mean something different if you are in backwoods Alabama, inner city D.C., or downtown Seattle.
Wave a Confederate flag in Atlanta, then wave it in Chicago.
Wear a red headband in various neighborhoods in L.A. and its suburbs, check out the reactions.
Try speaking to someone in backwoods Appalachia, an African American from East Saint Louis, and an Anglo Saxon from the ritziest suburbs in Maryland and you'll find yourself met with a version of English you'd find it difficult to understand.
I live in a rather diverse neighborhood, and god if I havn't met quite a number of English "interpretations".
I am talking about what language and communication really is, symbols. It doesn't matter if two or more groups share, ostensibly, the same language. It matters whether they are actually, symbolically, culturally the same.
The United States, England, Canada, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, India, Hong Kong, and other nations all speak "English". But in many of those places you'd scarcely realize it.
4+5. What I am saying is that your multicultural programs will inevitably bring about mono culture through synthesis. Honestly, though, television has done a better job at this than the classroom ever could.
You may think you havn't adopted different cultural traits and traditions, but most of the assimilation goes on unnoticed. Most of the assimilation, as I mentioned above, probably doesn't happen through formal education, rather, mass media and day to day interaction tends to be the most effective and swift method of synthesis.
Watch your words, see how many came from an external culture. Where you picked them up you may never know; but further education would certainly increase the rate at which this occurs, especially if schools are effectively desegregated.
6. That is precisely the case, but that is a trend towards monoculturalism, not multi. A truly multicultural system would foster the growth of cultures, not slowly bring them into one giant culture. We have seen every group of people who were allowed to mix with the general culture give up their ancestral ways and adopt the dominant thought structure (or get the dominant one to accept theirs).
These sorts of cultural appropriations are absolutely desirable. They keep a culture healthy and vibrant; closed-off societies tend to stagnate and die off; it's those that adapt and adopt that keep going.
This is the beauty of America! We are all under one flag of America, yet we should still celebrate our roots, heritage, and the melting pot of cultures that is America! To me, it is similar to the State and Federal government system... we all belong to our perspective states of residence, yet we all also belong to the United States of America!
I think that America wouldn't be the America that I know today if it weren't multicultural. I love all of the cultures here, but I also understand that even though there are different cultures, we are all part of one culture that should celebrate it's own diversity and color.
I think there is too much segregation though, maybe because of ignorance or maybe because fundamental aspects of certain cultures cannot help but rub up on each other once in a while , but it keeps us from acknowledging how great America is for allowing all of us to be able to say we are Americans and yet, be so different from one another.
Wait... is multiculturalism one culture in that it is many cultures?
That's the funny thing about multiculturalism. Living in Saint Louis you can go through all the various neighborhoods that still revel in their ethnic pride. I've checked out my own ethnicity's section "The Hill", the Italian side of town.
Of course, it is Italian in history only. The people all talk and act like typical Americans, the only difference is that the fire hydrants are painted like Italian flags and there are more Italian restaurants.
I expect the burgeoning Mexican part of town (which I live right next to) will end up the same way.
For the most part, Multiculturalism seems to be just a cross pollination of sorts anyways. The only way to be both multicultural and keep cultures from merging together into one is to enforce strict segregation.
I can note the difference between "The Hill" and the "North Side" as a good example. While the Hill merged with the surrounding culture (because Italians look like Anglos anyways) the African Americans (which are easily the most discriminated against population) are still extremely different from their white counterparts. African Americans speak differently, act differently, and wear completely different clothes than the greater culture. As such, there is a great deal of misunderstandings between the two groups.
I think it's quite telling that there is a definitely "black" way of talking and acting as well as a "white" way. If a black or white act outside of their race's culture they are quickly labeled a "whigger" or not really black.
I believe that what people call "racism" today is more of a socioeconomic thing rather than a race thing. I mean, I would rather invite an educated black man to my home than a white gangbanger boy. And if the person reading this is a gangbanger, I didn't mean to offend. I don't need a drive-by or something.
I completely agree with this point! It has less to do with skin color and more to do with social economic status (SES)... I have seen this very point in action on a day-to-day basis as I grew up in a wealthy Chicago suburb where we were all basically the same SES regardless of skin color, and now live in Baltimore, where there is a huge disparity in SES that crosses the racial divides.
I agree, with one caveat. The different cultures must assimilate. This means that they must use English and must abide by our Bill of Rights and laws. I don't want to wake up one morning under Sharia law.
What specifically do you mean by assimilate..? If you're only referring to language, I think it doesn't hurt anyone if a newcomer to the United States fails to learn our language. I'm sure it just makes life for them more difficult, so why insist?
I'm also not sure how you jumped from speaking English to living under Sharia law. Are you now talking about people in foreign countries? Or do you fear a homegrown uprising?
Part of American culture is that it does change. Look at pop culture starting from the early 1900's to... now. It changes rapidly, all of the time. That's America.
Why are you so concerned with Islamic people? It seems like the only thing you talk about anymore.
As far as Islamic people (actually radical Islam, not all of Islam).... My wife and I were talking and we came to the conclusion that there are certain people that are not on the same plane as you and this makes it impossible to have a rational conversation with them. I mean, if they believe that they should kill you because their cleric said you are an infidel, then where do you begin a conversation? And the reason I bring it up so much is because I want people to realize that in order to have a productive debate, the participants need to be on the same plane.
Bradf0rd and I were thinking and we came to the conclusion that it might be impossible to have a rational conversation with someone who believes that no dialogue is possible between himself and radical islamists because his wife agreed that if their cleric said that he was an infidel, he would most likely be killed, and how do we have a productive debate when someone is obviously not on the same plane as us?
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I'll try again. Do you and Bradford believe that it is possible to get radical Islamists to denounce terrorism through dialog?
Multiculturalism should absolutely be honored in America because it is one extraordinary way that American can become stronger.
As long as there is a common denominator among a diverse population, diversity means strength. A common denominator may be culture, ethnicity, history, or language.
America's culture is largely defined by it's diversity. Should that be honored? Honored in what way? Personally, I think it should be laizzes-faire. Immigrant should learn English, sure, but Americans should be encouraged to learn other languages too. And simply knowing another language for practical purposes isn't meant to harm the culture.
Sure, there are differences, and sure there are disagreements, but how should we deal with them? Should be expect them to all conform to what we call "American culture" or should we learn to accept our differences but also embrace our differences... does that clarify?
The laws and constitution of any country reflect its dominant culture. If a culture is forced to abide by the laws and constitution of a nation it IS being forced conform.
I went to reply to this and came out with almost the exact same thing you just said.
This means that you will probably be voted down for what people call "Having a sick view of government"... I know from experience. If you tell people something they don't want to know about government... you will be buried.
You must be doing something right because your efficiency doesn't seem to be suffering. Oh Shiite! I did it again, didn't I? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Damn it!
I think the way we have it is nice. Asian, african-american, English, Irish, Lation and Italian all raise their hand to their hearts as ole glory is raised. I love that our country has so much diversity. There are problems associated with understanding, but everything worthwhile can sometimes be challenging.
yep, the more ideas and ways of life presented, the more we can learn and create new ideas.
now, of course, we shouldn't accept cultures that break the law, but we wouldn't know they're breaking the law until they're out with it. (fuck you NAMBLA).
and, i love more religions. religious people seem to offer more in philosophy and imagination than boring old atheist (keep in mind, i am not theist or religious person, but atheism is quite boring). plus, different religious cultures help turn our heads different ways, helps us see different views on morals and really just helps us open our minds (i do understand though that getting trapped into a religion can close your mind, but i'm talking about multiple religions).
and different cultures brings about different entertainment. muzik, movies, and books.
most important though is the different ways of thinking provided. i always like to hear different ideas and why people believe in this or that. helps me make decisions when i hear what EVERYONE has to say.
then again, the one american culture is multiculture.