Should muslim women be allowed to wear the niqab when working in the public sector?
Yes, it is their right to wear it if they feel it's something dictated by their religion.
But where does that right infringe my right to be able to see the face of the person that I'm dealing with?
How is this any different to someone working in a bank wearing a balaklava?
Yes, because...
Side Score: 14
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No, because...
Side Score: 16
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She has a right to wear just how someone has a right to not talk to them. The thing is, no one should be sued or lose their job for anything, but this is a free country where we have something called the First Amendment. As un-PC as I am, I still respect all cultures and I have no problem talking to a chick with a scarf around her face. It's her culture and I don't give a fuck about it. I'm not some anal prick who NEEDS to see someone's face while talking to them. Side: Yes, because...
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It should be treated as a fashion and nothing more. It is up to the immediate employer whether it is allowable. Any sort of religious claim should be discounted. Imagine if there were a religion where ceremonial 9mm handguns must be kept about the person at all times - clearly unacceptable in the workplace. Side: Yes, because...
That is the point though. Employer's aren't allowing the niqab and some people are complaining. It is also NOT a religious claim as it is NOT required by Islamic law. Shouldn't your argument be pointing towards no they shouldn't be allowed??.. I'm confused by your last sentence... Side: Yes, because...
I think that they should be. Perhaps women who feel the need to cover their faces should have some other means by which to identify themselves, on IDs and the like- fingerprints, etc. However, they aren't offensive, obscene, or revealing- they are merely an extreme preference for modesty. There is nothing wrong with that. Side: Yes, because...
Yes, because the constitution says so: Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Not allowing them to out of some 'fear' or bigotry is showing you have no respect. If people payed more attention to what the constitution says, instead of ignoring it and manipulating it, we'd be a lot better off. Side: Yes, because...
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It shows disrespect towards your adopted country and in today's western world where a threat of a common non-muslim citizen is very real, anyone dressing in a islamic way promotes hatred eventhough they might not be guilty. I mean, how often do we see someone from eastern europe or similiar dressing up in their traditional clothing? Don't promote even more suspicion towards yourself by dressing up in such a way that people might be suspicious towards you. That will lead to the usual "he/she is against my religius beliefs, I am going to sue and live off the lawsuit money." I am sure that the same respect towards non-muslims living in muslim-dominated countries is not even close to comparison to the way muslims are respected in the western world. Just imagine a jew living in a muslim-dominated country wearing a yarmulka (I hope that is the right spelling) walking down the street in Riyadh or any major muslim country? In addition, allowing them to wear the niqab today would mean that tomorrow they will be allowed to teach the inhumane "Sharia Law" in every-day school classes. Why not? Hey, if you don't allow me to do so, I am going to sue you.......and circle starts again. Enough is enough. Side: No, because...
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I think if we claim freedom as one of the wonders of the western world, then we should dispense it ... freely. Even if non-muslims living in the muslim world do not recieve as much freedom as they are granted in our hemisphere, this is not an excuse to limit our own notion of freedom or to limit it. We do not base our actions on what they do or not do. At least we shouldn't. Anyway they are not the ones claiming that freedom is one of their values... we are. I think we dispense with the word "freedom" without realizing that we are not as liberal as we think we are. We are clearly limiting the concept only to "freedom in the christian sense". But then again, it is of knowledge to all of us that there is no such thing as a truly secular state anyway. This debate wouldn't even be a debate if we were "free" from our own religious moralities. And about people in other places dressing up in their traditional clothing, well it is very common in Japan to see people attend public functions in the traditional kimonos or yukatas. It is a country that up to now continues to have a strong sense of historical identity. Indians who are abroad also continue to use the sari or the traditional garments in their everyday lives. Just because we in the western "secular" world do not dress traditionally doesn't mean we are more advanced. It's just a sign of where we sense our identity comes from. Suspicion is in the eye of the paranoid, and because of lack of education and ethnocentrism we are usually paranoid of the things we do not know. More education about Islamic religion would teach you that true adherents of Islam do not support violence. Just as more education about Christianity, through the years, has taught the world that the religion is not just about gaining converts in a violent way for the catholic church. But actually you would be surprised to know how in S.E. Asia, the conception of Christians is still linked to the atrocities committed by the catholic church. Do you blame them of being suspicious? Or do you think it is just lack of exposure to christians? Side: Yes, because...
But the problem isn't just tradition. I have nothing against burkas, kiminos or traditional clothing. However, it's not exactly a secret that a lot of people are afraid of Muslims after the war, after 9/11 and with all the jihads and death threats on anyone who makes movies about Islam. Discrimination isn't ok, but when they are trying to wear something that covers their entire face, I think that is going too far in today's society built on fear. People are ignorant, but it is ignorant for Muslims that wear the niqab to do so in public at their public jobs, knowing that the society they're in is giving them a lot of new freedom and religious tolerance already, despite the wars and terrorism aspects. It is just unnerving talking to someone who won't show their face, no matter the reason. It is not a religious issue, it is a trust issue from both sides. Side: No, because...
I think it can be compared to a disability. Persons with disabilities are given jobs based on if they can complete tasks with reasonable or no necessary accommodations. This may not interfere with task completion, but office safety and information security could be compromised. Side: No, because...
Some few months ago, there was a politician in office that refused to talk to a woman who had come to visit him in office wearing a niqab. He claimed he had the right to be able to see the face of the person talking to him. But she went to the media and made a fuss about how her religious right was not respected. The media buried that incident quite swiftly because no one was sure where it would lead. There have also been cases where court judges have demanded that witnesses remove the niqab when testifying, because seeing the witnesses face is part of them determining their truthfulness. But I was more curious as to what your opinions might be when it comes to the workplace. Should muslim women be allowed to wear the niqab when working for a bank, or a hospital, or any position where they come to contact with the public? Is it any different to wearing a cross? Is it any different to wearing a balaklava? Side: No, because...
This isn't just for the public sector, this is just for everyday jobs. However, even public sector workers don't have to leave their religion at the door; no one would insist a Christian remove her cross, a Jew remove his yarmulke (yammaca, phonetically)- Islam is a politically touchy religion, which is the only reason that we're having this argument. As for a patriarchal mentality, how many women are in top positions in Western countries? It's not official, but it's there. As long as the woman wearing the niqab is doing so of her own free will, then she has every right to do so. Side: Yes, because...
The difference is that the niqab obscures the entire face, rather than just being a symbol. Covering the head is fine, wearing a silly harry potter cloak is fine even, with a wand, but if you're going to cover your entire face, that is going too far. It is not a religious issue. It is a trust and societal issue. I can't work or trust people who cover their face. Side: No, because...
I don't have a problem with somebody showing their faith in small amounts i.e. a necklace, bracelet, ring etc. It may not be required but it doesn't harm/affect or cause any difference to anybody in any way. Unless there's some sort of health and safety issue, I think everybody should be able to wear something. However with something like a niqab, which isn't even a requirement within the religion, which hides the wearer's face, I have a problem with. When people come to another country, they should respect that countries culture more than that country should respect theirs and when you get a job, you should follow the companies guidelines. It is not infringing on their culture or lifestyle and does not affect their private life. When these people come to UK or America, they should understand the differences in culture and try to adapt a little bit, not make the west change to their ways. This is coming from somebody of ethnic origin. I feel that in my own time, I can wear practically anything I want, but when it comes to work, I wear my work clothes. I have many muslim colleagues, a couple wear the hijab and some do not wear anything. Nobody has complained about not being allowed to weat the niqab. I think most the time its just an attention wh*re.... or that person has been so used to wearing the niqab all their lives that they find it difficult to change. That's their problem really and shouldn't try for a job that requires them to not wear it. I don't really have a problem with hijabs, but niqabs I do. Side: No, because...
If you went to an Islamic country, where women are expected to cover themselves head to toe, not speak to men outside their immediate family, and go nowhere without a family member, would you do so? I seriously doubt it. It is easy to make the "they should assimilate" argument, but look at us; shouldn't we be speaking Cherokee, and living in various bands, tribes, and chieftains, with a sprinkling of civilizations? I don't think your argument really stands up all that well. It's really well written though! Which generally makes me happy. Side: Yes, because...
Lol thanks. I tend not to write well. Well I'm from UK so the whole America thing p's me off. You are right that it is difficult to assimilate, however you look at most muslim women and they do not wear the niqab (In UK). In the same way when going to an Islamic country you shouldn't be showing off your cleavage and wearing tight clothes, but cover up out of respect. It's about meeting middle ground. They can wear a Hijab, but not a Niqab, we can cover up a bit. It goes both ways. You're also confusing conquering a culture with assimilating with it. Europeans completely raped out the Natives, with intent to do so, not to settle with them and smoke pipe :P. Take for example my family (I was born in UK). When we came, we learned the language and culture. We lived similar to the English but have kept the most important aspects of our own culture to ourselves. I dress mostly in western clothing, but my mum still dresses how she used to and as long as it doesn't affect her job, she should be allowed. For a Sikh it is compulsory to wear a turban (or have it tied back i think). Unless it made a difference to their job, they should be allowed to wear it. I know there was controversy when they were not allowed to join certain policing/army positions because there was no protective headgear which allowed them to keep their turban. They have accepted this and you don't see them making as big a fuss about it (except for a couple of oddballs). Forgetting that you should try and assimilate with a country which is open to your beliefs, at least when working you should abide to company policies, especially when they do not infringe on your rights. Side: No, because...
For example, in Kazakhstan we have a lot of women who believe in God but they do not wear a hijab or something like that to show that they believe. Therefore, I think that women should obey the rules which are written in Kuran but not to show that they believe in God and wear hijab or if your work somewhere also you should follow their rules and wear what they require you. Side: No, because...
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