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2
17
Yes No
Debate Score:19
Arguments:17
Total Votes:21
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 Yes (2)
 
 No (8)

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FactMachine(430) pic



Should "sacred geometry" be taken seriously?

Sacred geometry is based on geometrical and mathematical patterns which are considered "the fingerprints of god" or signs of metaphysical emanations. But regardless of whether you take metaphysics or the notion of god seriously there is a chance that these interpretations are just the manifestations of a superstitious mind yet the underlying mathematical principles and patterns of sacred geometry do contain vital information about how nature works all the same. Whether or not you believe sacred geometry is really sacred the fact remains that the Fibonacci sequence and the golden ratio can be found everywhere in nature, from galaxies to pineapples, and examination of ancient megaliths such as the pyramids of giza has lead to speculation that many ancient cultures where actually well aware of these mathematical principles. It is hard to find reliable information about this topic and no one really knows where sacred geometry originally came from, but it's probably the same place that the kabbalah came from.

Yes

Side Score: 2
VS.

No

Side Score: 17
0 points

God's fingerprints are all over and throughout His creation. It does not matter if you believe it. God still owns all of His creation including you....though you apparently are a servant of sin and denying God's ownership so Hell is ready to hold you.

Side: Yes
FactMachine(430) Disputed
1 point

Even if God was real I would rather burn forever then submit to anyone including the creator of the universe. Not even God can own me so take your pathetic slave mentality elsewhere.

Side: No
NowASaint(1380) Clarified
0 points

You are making your choice, aren't you? You might as well throw yourself into a big fire now.......it's God's fire, and He owns you but since you hate Him He'll have to leave you in the fire. You're being an idiot, you know that, right?. If you insist on going out the way you are going, you might as well enjoy your sinning all you can because you are going to burn forever in the fire of Hell and have no pleasure in sin throughout eternity

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1380) Clarified
0 points

Your sin enslaves you and is taking you to Hell. You are on death row and you think you are free to sin? You are imprisoned by sin, condemned to die and you deserve to burn in Hell forever.......how stupid can anybody be to say "I'd rather burn in Hell forever than be with God in Heaven". You will get what you want and you will wish that you could get out of it.

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1380) Disputed
0 points

You really want to burn in Hell forever? What are you waiting for, why not just throw yourself into a big fire now?

Side: Yes
NowASaint(1380) Clarified
0 points

You will submit to God if you like it or not....willingly or against your will. The fact that you are condemned to die should be enough evidence of the fact, and it should be enough incentive for you to seek God's mercy, to be forgiven, to be saved.

Pride goes before a fall....and you have one foot in the grave and the other on thin ice melting over the fire of Hell....and somehow you think you are smart and strong...you are making a fool out of yourself.

Side: Yes
4 points

Well as an artist I use the golden mean / ratio when planning the composition of a painting and artists , photographers , designers etc,etc , use it or variations of it as in the rule of thirds when planning an effective composition , I take the geometry seriously but do not label it ""sacred " historically it was called so and the geometry used in the construction of places of worship and indeed the pyramids as you stated .

I've no problem with art, mathematics, and spirituality.

I do have a problem when art, mathematics, and spirituality claim to be science in cases where they are not science , normally new age stoners and seekers of ' esoteric truths ' are the ones who make unwarranted claims for sacred geometry that are merely the products of over stimulated imaginations

Here's an interesting piece from the boxing Pythagoras site ......

Sacred Geometry is Neither

In recent years, there has been a movement which has been gaining popularity across the Internet, known as “Sacred Geometry.” I’m not using this phrase in its historical context, mind, where it traditionally referred to the geometry and architecture found in churches, mosques, temples, and religious artwork. The context in which we’ll be discussing Sacred Geometry, today, is in the idea that the very fabric and origins of the universe are found in fairly simple shapes and patterns. So far as I have been able to deduce, this whole movement owes itself almost entirely to a man who calls himself Drunvalo Melchizedek.

In the 1970’s, Bernard Perona got involved in a number of New Age philosophies. He was especially influenced by Edgar Cayce, an early 20th Century spiritualist who claimed to be able to channel the spirit of Thoth, the Egyptian god, and who made numerous claims about Atlantis. Perona found a Hindu instructor to teach him meditation, and began to “channel” spirits and experience visions. Apparently deciding that his real name didn’t sound mystical enough, Bernie Perona started calling himself “Drunvalo Melchizedek.” He became obsessed with simple shapes– especially circles– and by the mid- to late-80’s, Drunvalo had begun giving seminars on his research (a term I use quite loosely) on the “Flower of Life,” a construction composed of a number of circles interlocked in a certain pattern. In 1999, Drunvalo published his material from the Flower of Life seminars in a two-volume series entitled, The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life.

Flower of Life

The “Flower of Life” pattern

In the first volume, Drunvalo gives a bit of his own biography (though, he neglects to mention the whole name change) and claims that he was one semester away from finishing a degree in physics, with a minor in mathematics, before he left college. This claim is either a baldfaced lie designed to give him the appearance of credibility, or else Drunvalo was a terrible student. I say this because I took the time to read through the entirety of ASoFoL, and I learned that Drunvalo Melchizedek is bad at math. He has no idea what he is talking about, in many cases. He often gets fairly basic concepts completely wrong. However, because his average reader is even worse at math than ol’ Bernie, they don’t even bother to check his claims. They simply see a bunch of math-looking stuff, and they know that smart people use math; therefore, Drunvalo Melchizedek must be a smart person.

Ignoring Drunvalo’s problems with high school mathematics, for a moment, let’s take a look at his actual claims. These claims, after all, are precisely what have spawned the entire modern Sacred Geometry movement. In the beginning, he claims, the Creator existed in a void. But, the Creator wanted to create, so it expanded its consciousness. Now, Drunvalo doesn’t just use that phrase in its nebulous, New Age way, to mean that it opened itself to new ideas; he means that this Creator literally created a material expanse out of its own consciousness. Since this expanse spread evenly in all directions, it created something like a circle, with the Creator at the center. However, the Creator wasn’t satisfied, so it moved to the edge of the circle and repeated the process. It then continued to do this over and over until the Flower of Life pattern emerged. Thus the universe was born!

For a moment, let’s give Drunvalo the benefit of the doubt, and pretend that this description is not completely nonsensical. One has to wonder: how did he come to this knowledge? Did Drunvalo Melchizedek come to this conclusion after finding curious patterns in the Cosmic Microwave Background? Did he construct mathematical models which are built off of known physics? Did he compile and aggregate results from scholarly publications by cosmologists? Don’t be silly. Drunvalo Melchizedek’s sources are much more reliable than that! No, he learned all these things from two ten-foot tall angels (one green, one purple) and from the Egyptian god Thoth in the guise of an old man. Oh, and also a mysterious Freemason who randomly showed up to Drunvalo’s dorm room, once, to talk about geometry.

Drunvalo Melchizedek’s “sacred geometry” is not geometry. There is a great deal more to geometry than just drawing some pretty shapes and patterns. Things like the Flower of Life are absolutely aesthetically pleasing, but they are next to useless in terms of mathematics. If you don’t believe me, go pick up a copy of Euclid’s Elements (in fact, do this anyway) and read through all 13 books. You won’t find the Flower of Life anywhere. Nor will it appear in any modern geometry textbook, because– despite how pretty it looks– the Flower of Life is mathematically boring. There are far more useful constructions to be made with a straightedge and compass.

Neither is “sacred geometry” something which can really be considered sacred. Even amongst its proponents, nobody worships the Flower of Life or the Metatron’s Cube or the Golden Ratio. These things are held in awe and wonder, sure, but no moreso than a sunset or a blooming flower or the rainbow in the mist of a waterfall. They are not ascribed “holy” significance. They are not dedicated to a god or gods. They are not revered or deified. No one is preaching sermons on them, or writing scripture about their nature. Nothing which we could describe as “sacred” can truly be attributed to these things.

Sacred Geometry is neither sacred nor geometry. It is a collection of preposterous assertions about pretty shapes and patterns made by people with little to no understanding of what they are seeing. It stands upon the shoulders of liars and frauds, and persists only due to confirmation bias and ignorance. Sacred Geometry is one of the worst examples of gullible people accepting pseudoscience in order to pretend that their irrational beliefs are actually rational.

Side: No
2 points

A very sound and detailed argument. It really puts into perspective how meaningless the whole concept of sacred geometry is. I was mostly under the impression that sacred geometry started with ancient people noticing patterns in nature and conflating them with self contrived metaphysical abstractions. Which is still pretty much the case, but nonetheless you have erased any doubt from my mind that these new age concepts are not even based in math, geometry, or observation and are so fallaciously stupid that they should be deleted from the universe.

Side: No
2 points

Thank you FactMachine 👌 The term makes me puke and I often wonder am I living in the year 2017 when I hear about another book or article on this pseudoscientific bullshit bleating on about the latest " discovery " regarding " sacred geometry "

Our primative ancestors started all this superstitious nonsense when they couldn't comprehend natural phenomena as in hurricanes , thunder and lightning, solar eclipses ; some genius came up with the idea that it must be a god and became instantly important as a ' wise one ' ...... And here we are so called advanced humans and the same bullshit is still going on

Side: No
4 points

Oh, everything we observe in life could be attributed to a miracle of God depending on your imagination and perspective. Heck, that's why toast burnt into a shape imagined to be the Virgin Mary results in pilgrimages and evening news stories. Sacred geometry is just one step above burnt toast.

Side: No
1 point

A friend I worked with awoke one day, looked out his window and saw in a bush and stump arrangement the face of Jesus. He took a picture, and, after looking at it for about a minute, I SAW the image. It actually looked like what the world perceives as a "Biblical character" ... or was it a Hippie? I had to ask him how HE knew what Jesus looked like.

Anyway, people came from miles around to see "Jesus", in their "imagination and perspective", until the bush grew a bit.

Side: No
2 points

Believers have a history of incidents with those darn bushes .....

3 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”

Side: No
Grenache(6053) Clarified
2 points

If I were the devil one of my favorite pranks would be to make images of criminals appear in random things and then watch the Christians fall all over themselves worshipping the false images of God.

Side: Yes