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Debate Info

10
3
Yes No
Debate Score:13
Arguments:8
Total Votes:15
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (6)
 
 No (2)

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Should the Catholic Church Recognize the Sainthood of a Woman Who Had an Abortion?

Yes

Side Score: 10
VS.

No

Side Score: 3
3 points

The catholic church should start thinking straight. Period.

Side: yes

The catholic church should start thinking straight. Period.

Agreed.

Side: yes
1 point

They believe that abortion is a sin, but they also believe that all humans sin. So the fact that she has sinned on one particular occasion shouldn't automatically disqualify her from sainthood.

But then, I don't know the precise rules they use in deciding who can be saints and who can't. I'm just going by what I consider to be common sense.

Side: yes
0 points

Agreed. Otherwise it just shows they are too judgmental of their own members, and therefore hypocritical, as everyone DOES sin and no sin is greater or less than another. (The ideas that they have around sin already perplex me though: I never got how they believed that one can simply be prayed into heaven, or that their sins can just be erased by doing community service XD

Side: yes
ENDT91(36) Disputed
1 point

Actually there are different levels of sin. There are venial sins which are considered the less serious of sins. Then there are mortal sins which are considered very serious. You cannot be "prayed" into Heaven just as your sins cannot be simply "erased" by doing community service. All sins may be forgiven if you ASK for forgiveness. The belief is that you have to be truly sorry for them. Part of the process is going to confession and using the priest as the middle man of sorts. Even a murderer can be forgiven if he is truly sorry in his heart for his actions and he attends confession willingly to admit to his wrongdoings. The basis for being forgiven for your sins is feeling the guilt. You can go confess to a priest all you want, but if you're not sorry for it, then you won't be forgiven. You make a lot of false assumptions in your post that really have no footings in the Catholic Church. People laugh all the time at the Catholic Church about a lot of things because they don't really understand what's behind it.

Side: No
1 point

Why not? They're clearly fervently committed to pushing the sainthood of a pope who presided over the cover-up of mass child molestation... they're a little beyond playing the "ethical principles" card on the matter.

Side: yes
1 point

Yes. Of'course! She had an abortion in some period, for some reason and she might be a good person. Goodness must not be measured by the sins you commit but by how good you are.

Side: yes
2 points

This is one area of the Catholic Church I find them in error over.

The scriptures call all believers saints.

If you are a believer in Jesus Christ, you are a saint (Romans 1:7)

The NT references for "saints: (Acts 9:13, 32, 41; 26:10; Rom. 1:7; 8:27; 12:13; 15:25, 26, 31; 16:2, 15; 1 Cor 1:2; 6:1, 2; 14:33; 16:1, 15; 2 Cor. 1:1, 8:4; 9:1, 12; 13:13; Eph. 1:1, 15, 18; 2:19; 3:8, 18; 4:12; 5:3; 6:18; Phil. 1:1; 4:22; Col. 1:2, 4, 12, 26; 1 Thess. 3:13; 2 Thess. 1:10; Philemon 1:5, 7; Heb. 6:10; 13:24; Jude 1:3; Rev. 5:8; 8:3, 4; 11:18; 13:7; 13:10; 14:12; 16:6; 17:6; 18:20, 24; 19:8; 20:9)

http://alwaysreformingtoscripture.blogspot.com/ 2008/03/called-as-saints.html

Yes we are all sinners....but I believe the CC believes that if you are elected a Saint by them, that you are perfect like the Pope. I went to Italy a few summers back...and of course we went in every church in Rome. In these churches they have areas dedicated to the Saints. People are there on their knees praying to them. I think this is unscriptural. The praying should go directly to Christ. They also worship Mary which is wrong scripturally.

"Joined by a close and indissoluble bond to the Mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption, the Blessed Virgin, the Immaculate, was at the end of her earthly life raised body and soul to heavenly glory and likened to her risen Son in anticipation of the future lot of all the just; and we believe that the Blessed Mother of God, the New Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven her maternal role with regard to Christ's members, cooperating with the birth and growth of divine life in the souls of the redeemed.'

They say she is likened.......wrong, she is not anything remotely close to Christ who died for our sin. No where in scriptures does it give her what the Catholics say she is given. Where does it say she is the mother of the church? She has nothing to do with the redeemed....only Christ can forgive and save. I love the mother Mary and honor her for what she did, giving birth to Christ...but all my worship goes to the one who said...I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE....NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME.

So to answer the debate question....I do not beleive in making people Saints in the way the Catholics do. I do believe we are all sinners....even Mary. I believe God forgives even those who have had abortions. Christ picked sinners to head the Church...Peter, John...who killed Christians for a living......were hand picked by God.

Side: No