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Should the U.S. senate pass the dream act?
The DREAM Act has four basic requirements which are:
You entered the country before the age of 16;
You graduate high school or obtain a GED;
You have good moral character (no criminal record); and
You have at least five years of continuous presence in the US.
If you meet the above criteria, once the DREAM Act passes, you will then have six years within which to obtain a two-year college degree or complete two-years of military service. Upon doing all of this you will gain the chance to adjust your conditional permanent residency to U.S. citizenship.
I think it would be ok. If you are willing to work to prove that you want to be here, and don't expect a free ride then sure, why not?
The only problem I see with this situation is the parents of these children. It presents a sticky situation. But if they want to join the military for a couple of years and work toward it then I'm all for it.
I agree with your main point that those wanting to become Americans should indeed be given the opportunity if they are willing to pay for it (freedom is not free), but the problem here is that, illegal immigrants and those wanting in to the U.S. who don't have the money already have the means to do this in the current system... the dream act is giving rights to illegal immigrants, not a way in, if you've been here for 5 years and have sucked up the hard working americans tax dollars to get your GED you can now suck up some more (all while committing a crime) to go to college... that is what we are telling those here illegally now.
Immigration is immigration. Who are "americans", the vast majority are descendants of European immigrants.
In fact, the famous pilgrims on the Mayflower were illegal immigrants. They landed far south of their plotted course, and set up their settlement in an unauthorized zone.
So why do we celebrate their pilgrimage, and then people like you frown upon the pilgrimages of the modern era?
Immigration is immigration. Who are "americans", the vast majority are descendants of European immigrants.
Really... I mean really?! There is a BIG distinction between immigration, which I applaud, and illegal immigration which is wrong from a legal aspect at the very least... Under Title 8 Section 1325 illegal immigration, notice ILLEGAL, is stated as a crime. And no Americans are those with papers declaring them as such, I don't care if someone is black,white,red,yellow, mixed, whatever, if you do not become a citizen by legal means, and due proses.... then you are not an American.
In fact, the famous pilgrims on the Mayflower were illegal immigrants. They landed far south of their plotted course, and set up their settlement in an unauthorized zone.
What law did they break when they landed my friend? why were they illegal? illegal = not according to law...
and think about it... it was the uncharted plain...
So why do we celebrate their pilgrimage, and then people like you frown upon the pilgrimages of the modern era?
Oh... wow... when people celebrate the pilgrims coming to America, do they go "lets celebrate the unlawful entry of our ancestors entrance into the established country of America"? uh... yeah... no... it isn't called the "new world" anymore. 20th century pilgrimage as you describe it is a breach of U.S. law... if someone commits a crime they should not be rewarded. btw, how many pilgrims did you read of that carried dirty bombs, drugs, illegal weapons, and human slaves across to this fine country?
P.S. this is an issue I have strong feelings about, if some of the language/tone offends please note I am attacking the arguments strictly, I bet your just an awesome person who cares about people, that I just happen to vehemently disagree with on this point :).
Other then taxes, big brother, and insurance; what is necessarily different about a legal and illegal alien?
They took what was common to the people who were there before them(land), they stole from them and war with them , their coming hailed a age of violence and manifest destiny leading to the trail of tears and the original dominate ethnic group wasting away on 'reserves', among other "crimes against humanity".
Other then taxes, big brother, and insurance; what is necessarily different about a legal and illegal alien?
Pretty simple... Title 8 Section 1325... that's what separates them... one is (intentionally or ignorantly) breaking the law... the other is doing something commendable and continuing a long lasting tradition of immigration into the states. All this to say the immigration system needs major reform ... its not just the border that needs fixing.
They took what was common to the people who were there before them(land), they stole from them and war with them , their coming hailed a age of violence and manifest destiny leading to the trail of tears and the original dominate ethnic group wasting away on 'reserves', among other "crimes against humanity".
difference
whats the difference between now and then?... the Indians had laws (per say) and when they saw that they were being invaded they tried to kick the "white mans" buttox to whence he came or even across the pond if they could... they supported their moral and "national security" obligations.
We must solve
In the constitution of the united states of America... it is allowed that the government should protect the people of this great nation... not the people of Mexico mind you... not the people of Africa mind you... but the people of the united states of America! the legal citizens of America.
Our economy is falling... crime is on the rise... and more illegals pore across our porous borders every day... literally, every day... this piece of legislation merely appeases the problem... "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."... we must not appease this dire problem... or it will most assuredly engulf us.
pilgrims were dirty bombs, the diseases they brought across the Atlantic killed thousands or more.
I think your probably an intelligent individual... being this as it is... I think we both know the difference between the diseases of that day and the weapons of today... one is with no intention to harm... and very little knowledge of the danger, the other is brought with the intent to kill.
drugs: herbal remedies. illegal weapons:is there such a thing to a group of violent and desperate rebels?
This is once again a technical argument... but when one looks at the differences there is seen little to no resemblance... herbs of the pilgrims time and meth-cocaine... ect. serve two very different purposes... and bring about to very different ends.
illegal weapons:is there such a thing to a group of violent and desperate rebels?
If your speaking of of the drug lords-bangers-hoodlums... ect that come across the border along with the innocent... then uh yeah there is such a thing as illegal weapons to them... why do you think they hide their pieces when advantages to do so... because they know they will be in trouble if they are found to be in possession of illegal weapons. why do you not have pawn shops all over sporting AK's... M4's... ect. because its illegal... they know what's up.
There is a difference between invasion and immigration. The original Europeans that came here were illegal in the sense of a literal invading militia, They were immigrates in the sense that they traveled to another place. Another country's rebel militia coming onto your land are illegal immigrants when they wish to stay there. It is not illegal immigrants in general that are violent rebels which wish to take over our land though, maybe international gangs and mafias do(another countries rebels), but the people who wish to coexist peacefully are problems only in that they are free-riders, are untraceable, and lack insurance when they drive.
I'm sure there was recreational drug use then(alcohol and tobacco at least) and herbal remedies can get you high.
I was speaking of the early European immigrants to this country.
There is a difference between invasion and immigration. The original Europeans that came here were illegal in the sense of a literal invading militia, They were immigrates in the sense that they traveled to another place. Another country's rebel militia coming onto your land are illegal immigrants when they wish to stay there.
The pilgrims weren't invaders, and they weren't a militia... they were a whole bunch of people who came to a new land to be free of the tyranny and oppression of the times... did they create a militia... uh yeah who wouldn't?... and as for what is legal and illegal... to my recollection, legality is based on what is lawful/established law... so before making the argument that the pilgrims were illegal immigrants (being that I disagree) I would ask that you establish any law that prohibited them from entering and establishing civilization in the Americas (I believe I have clearly done this when speaking of current latino illegal immigrants).
I'm sure there was recreational drug use then(alcohol and tobacco at least) and herbal remedies can get you high.
I'm sure there was... but for a people fleeing a country to gain religious freedom, and coming to a new land with illnesses at their doorstep... the probability of these remedies being used as recreational drugs is pretty low... on the other hand, you put a phew oz's of cock in a users possession it will be used for "recreational" purposes (if used).
I was speaking of the early European immigrants to this country.
Pilgrims, correct? if not than ^^ is out of line and I apologies in advance... if your talking about columbus' men then that is a completely different (in some ways) than the pilgrims.
new argument
Dream Act = no real solvency
This law is not the way to go, not because there are kids who need an education, but because it is in direct opposition to current law, "a house divided against itself will fall" ( this is the bible, but there is practical application here, its math, its common knowledge)... if the government wants to do this, they need to re-establish immigration law and remove illegal immigration... this law is the same as putting a pot in a pot to put in check the water leaking into a house, the govt rejected this bill today (good for them)... because the people of the U.S. know this is not good and bombarded the senate with their calls (shout out to you who called, let t)
I would add that they also have to sink a 40 foot putt.
Nah. You cannot reward people for entering the country illegally, you're just asking for more of them.
If somebody broke into your house in the middle of the night, would you wake up the next morning and tell them they can stay in the spare room so long as they make the bed, wash the dishes end eventually help out with the mortgage?
You have good moral character (no criminal record)
Lol, I love this bill... "no criminal record"... If you've entered the U.S. illegally you've committed a crime!!! what hypocrisy!... someone just needs to grow some gahonees on capital hill and uphold the law as given by the United States federal government!
#1... I am not an illegal alien... and will never be one... I am a U.S. citizen, and proud of it!
and #2 I've never seen the U.S.-Mexico border in person... though I've lived in WA and sometimes at times it's seemed like I've lived on it before :)... but if I and my family were smuggled across the border by some guy, then yesss! most assuredly we would have committed a crime! that is why it is called illegal immigration... it's amazes me how so many people don't get it... read your constitution and your U.S. code people!
It is a hard situation... hypothetical though it may be... As much as I can relate, because I am gearing up for college myself I would say no... that's just the way I am... if my parents stole my college money I wouldn't go... it wouldn't be right... yet I could get grants and pay my own way (because I'm legal), or I could join the military, there are alternative options. Children/young adults who's parents have taken them across the border have done them wrong... and it's sad it really is... but there is still hope in the status quo, illegal immigrants can gain citizenship through the military... and I think there are als other means as well (besides applying for a green card).
You are not understanding the basis of this bill. It says that you don't have a criminal record meaning you have never done anything illegal in the U.S. (This shows on a student's permanent record-even illegal immigrants) You are saying that these <16 year old "kids" who have been brought into the country with no choice should be punished. These kids are practically Americans who shouldn't be blamed for something that there parents did.
Ok, I get that, after looking at the text of the bill for a while that is absolutely the spirit of this bill... not passing this bill is by no means punishing the children here illegally, though... for example if a parent is in the store and a child wants a twenty dollar box of chocolates, if the parent says no is it because perhaps the baby was born out of wedlock? absolutely not... if we deny people here illegally millions and maybe billions of dollars in college funds we are by no means punishing them... we're just not plundering the pockets of Americans for people who aren't even here legally... this bill is just messed up.
