Should the motto "In God We Trust" be removed from U.S. currency?
NBC is taking a poll on whether or not the motto "In God We Trust" should be removed from U.S. currency.
Your choices are:
Yes. It's a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.
No. The motto has historical and patriotic significance and does nothing to establish a state religion.
Don't tell me, tell them! Click on the link below and vote.
Well, for the first part, it would be too fuckin' expensive to do so... that's one thing.
over 80% of Americans are Christian, and over 90% actually believe in a God... so it's not like it represents a minority.
and, God is a vague term, and even if you are atheist... how does that offend you? "zomg, i don't believe in God"... k. why don't you just think of God as something else then... like yourself, or the Universe. That's what i do. it's an inspirational quote that harms NO ONE. if you are harmed, than you should probably kill yourself, because that's the only way you're ever going to end that pain of "eewww, too much religion to handle".
quite being a little bitch and find something more worthwhile to complain about, like Castro taking in political prisoners or something.
| Side: No
For someone who talks about patriotism being 'believing in the principles that America were founded on', you obviously aren't that interested in the establishment clause of the first amendment and the principles of the seperation of church and state that it entails.
The argument often put forward about being "offended by OUR country's religion" is simply a tactic by the religious to make the people who are concerned about it seem like anti-religious nutjobs, but that has nothing to do with it. It's not about being offended by religion, but about how something that so clearly respects the establishment of religion can be allowed on money in direct opposition to the first amendment. A patriot such as yourself should understand that.
God is not a church... since it is a vague term, saying "In God We Trust" has hardly anything to do with actual religions or churches...
churches and religions believe in a personal God that gives them goodies and such... but, that doesn't mean that's what God HAS TO BE.
it's not like the US currency says "i fuckin' love Jesus and Christianity pwns all".
| Side: No
Okay, so let's say the money had to be redesigned anyway, and you were in charge of what was written. Would you put "In God We Trust"? I can understand the I don't want change thing, as well as the money aspect, but starting from scratch, should God be on our money?
| Side: Hypocrisy
Im British and I must say one thing I admire about the United States of America is how your country keeps its values.
England has gone downhill fast as soon as we started with making everything politically correct and allowing other religions and races to have a say in what our country should be like.
I have not got a problem with any other religion or race but I absolutly hate it when Pakistanis and Indians come to our country and they complain that we have Enlgish flags up?!?!
ITS OUR COUNTRY IF YOU DONT LIKE IT GO HOME!
I wouldn't come to your country and tell you to take down your countries flags! I'm proud to be British but i plan to emigrate because the state of the country is appauling!
So keep the "In God We Trust" on your currency because its a very important saying that people should be reminded of!
| Side: No
"Im British and I must say one thing I admire about the United States of America is how your country keeps its values."
Values such as congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, perhaps?
"I have not got a problem with any other religion or race but I absolutly hate it when Pakistanis and Indians come to our country and they complain that we have Enlgish flags up?!?!"
Top Tip: If you start a sentence with any variation of "I'm not a racist, but..." you can be guarenteed that the rest of the sentence will invalidate that claim.
I have never heard a single Pakistani or Indian complain about an English flag being up, and I lived in/near Southall, which most people in Britian will realise as being one of the most Indian areas. Don't accept the fuax contraversy whipped-up by tabloid newpapers that doesn't actually exist.
Your reasoning is completely invalid.
The British flag is a symbol of a government.
"In God We Trust" is a symbol of a religion.
You would need an example where English citizens wish to do away with some religious paraphernalia that exists in your government.
| Side: separation of church and state
Man created god and with that thought the name god should not be printed on any currency or coin! It’s called separation of state and religion. It's all hocus pocus and all of y’all religious crazy need to get a life and stop begging for something that’s not there do yourselves a favor and keep it in your back pocket then y’all can sit on it and ponder. Every time I see someone with a cross hanging from their neck I think how weak they really are.
Religion is the route cause of war and has been for century’s its as stupid as that allah thing the new craze that messing up this country more then it is.
I personally think it's hilarious that a nation founded on the idea of separation of Church and State has God on it's money. Hypocrisy is just kinda funny to me.
If the money had been that way since the beginning of our nations history, I would be fine in recognizing the historic value. But this is not the case. The "in God we trust" was added during the cold war, not our nations founding. Should we stop making money with the motto? For me it has to do with core beliefs, but honestly I don't think it's a huge deal. It's just money! Stuff like the pledge of allegiance is a little more serious, but I'm convinced that at this point there are too many bible thumpers for that idea to be realistic (plus there are a lot more important issues).
Once again, it's just hypocrisy, plain and simple.
| Side: Hypocrisy
As was stated above, WAY too expensive, and what a waste of money! We're going to remove the word "God" from all our coins because some people are offended by it? When did we get so touchy!
From a deeper position, this country was founded as a Christian nation--I'm sorry, it's true. At the time it was founded, the 1st amendment was created because of situations like the Catholic/Protestant debates going on at the time. We cannot pull history out of context and try and apply it to today. Not establishing a church to them was looking at two(ish) different Christian denominations. I doubt it even occurred to the Founding Fathers there were non-Christian faiths to be taken into account as well. (I read the link posted earlier about how they were not Christians, and I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. Any attempt to say they were not really requires original sources.)
Even so we use the 1st amendment to protect everyone. The statement "separation of church and state" is not in the 1st amendment, which says that no law will be made to establish a religion or prohibit the free exercise thereof. Coins saying "in God we trust" do not violate either of these principles.
| Side: No
Wow, take a fucking history course. This is most certainly not a Christian nation. We were founded on secular beliefs. In fact, of the 55 delegates at the signing of the constitution, most didn't even belong to a specific church.
Do you know who Thomas Jefferson was? Our third president, and a fierce critic of religion, especially Christianity. How about we read some quotes from him?
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
And my Favorite:
ay it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government. All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Roger C. Weightman, June 24, 1826 (in the last letter he penned)
So there you have it. Not only were many of our founding fathers not devout Christians, but Thomas Jefferson, our third president was, at the very least, an agnostic.
Instead of backing up your argument with facts you decided instead to make assumptions based on your flawed perceptions of history. Please, next time you think you have something to say, ask yourself if you have any idea what you're talking about before you come across looking like an idiot.
| Side: Hypocrisy
The only reason I'm even dignifying you with a response despite your adolescent rudeness is because of how sickly you have twisted the facts to try and show your narrow view of history. Thomas Jefferson, like so many living at that time was sick of the quibbling between Christian denominations. He was also very opposed to any attempt to manipulate people and cloud their minds. While he did indeed criticize many Christian denominations and many Christians for doing just that, he was also an active member of the Anglican church, attending each week for a large portion of his life (yes, even while he was writing some of this). Jefferson, like so many, was sickened by the divisiveness within religion, and made several conflicting statements throughout his life as his religious philosophies changed.
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” [Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781]
“It [the Bible] is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." [Jan 9, 1816 Letter to Charles Thomson]
This page is informative http://earlyamericanhistory.net/
As you can see, while many of them held unorthodox views, almost all of them actively attended church meetings, and when it comes to their views on Christ, most of them we just don't know.
In any case, this discussion isn't about Christianity, it's about the idea that this country was founded on a belief in God, which, as you can see from the above, it undoubtable was.
Maybe I'll take your arguement more seriously next time if you use some respect and clean up your language. Oh, and here's a crash course on rhetoric, when you swear at me and call me stupid, that's called ad hominum, a logical fallacy. I came here to have a polite discussion, so if you disagree with me, tell me why and cite your evidence.
| Side: No