CreateDebate


Debate Info

16
2
Yes, I only buy imported cars No, think of my pension
Debate Score:18
Arguments:11
Total Votes:26
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Yes, I only buy imported cars (9)
 
 No, think of my pension (2)

Debate Creator

joecavalry(40163) pic



Should we allow U.S. auto companies to fail?

There are no good answers here -- none at all. Whichever way we go, there is going to be substantial pain in the American auto industry. But a government bailout of recidivist capital destroyers is a particularly bad idea, as it perpetuates the destruction, and delays capital formation for more productive uses. It is a bitter, bitter pill. Better to let the Big Three take their medicine, attempt to reorganize in bankruptcy and attempt to emerge anew as smaller, more nimble competitors.

Economic growth only comes when capital is allowed to flow to its most productive uses. I am very sorry, but propping up Detroit's dinosaurs is not productive. They have destroyed capital for a generation. They have too much debt, they have above-market labor costs, they have shown minimal aptitude at developing automobiles that people want to buy at prices that allow the companies to turn a profit. They are losing to Toyota and Honda (NYSE: HMC). Their parts suppliers are, as a group, collapsing, with Dana Holding Corporation (NYSE: DAN) and Visteon (NYSE: VC) teetering on the precipice.

No easy answers (www.fool.com)

Yes, I only buy imported cars

Side Score: 16
VS.

No, think of my pension

Side Score: 2
3 points

Yes and we should also allow companies to succeed. It should depend on what the companies do.

If U.S. auto companies fail, then they fail. People can create new U.S. auto companies. I'm going to buy whatever car I want, my decision will have little to do with this. I actually prefer an American car, but I'm not going to tell people to buy an American car to save the company.

Let people buy whatever they want and let the companies fend for themselves.

Side: yes
2 points

Yes, but not for the bullshit reason of only buying imported cars. We are supposed to have a free market in this country. If companies are so poorly managed that their overhead is too high, or there is not a market for their product, we have no obligation as taxpayers to pony up the money to keep the idiots in business. They need to either rework their business model, restructure their organization, or fold.

It is NOT the duty of the taxpayer to ensure corporate profit.

If your pension is your worry, get off the stock market and build your wealth in more secure investments or savings vessels.

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars
2 points

The whole bail out thing is a racket.

Here's a funny story, it's been around for a while, but oh so very true:

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (General Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program, with meetings, dinners and free pens and a certificate of completion for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower (a reduction in workforce) for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and cancelled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was "out-sourced" to India ...

Sadly, the End.

However, sad, but oh so true! Here's something else to think about:

Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages. Toyota has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US.

The last quarter's results:

Toyota makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses. Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

We bailed out AIG, what happens? Their CEO's go on vacations, have parties, and are running under basically the same business plan as before.

If a company is "too big to fail" and it can only not fail if taxpayers give them inordanate amounts of money, then it's not a business, but a social program to employ Americans. If it's a social program to employ Americans, then every CEO needs to be fired, and we need to put a complete end to bonuses, and the special interest groups and PR firms they employ to convince congress to give them money for sucking.

Side: it's a racket

Yes i think they should, all these years they took advantage of the american citizens, there product has drop dramatically in quality. There goal was quantity. Let them go

Supporting Evidence: Austin mobile mechanic (www.moonlightingautomotive.com)
Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars

Allowing companies to fail due to market forces encourages other companies to innovate and produce better products to stay competitive, which ultimately benefits consumers. | Chandler Auto Mobile Detailing

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars

We can't keep on bailing out every Tom, Dick, Harry and their failed company.

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars

I ONLY buy foreign cars! The handwriting has been on the wall for over 30 years on this issue. Why would I, as a consumer, buy anything that loses 1/3 of its value as soon as it leaves the showroom, gives inferior gas mileage, doesn't handle as well, look as good or has so many problems that cost a fortune to fix?

I don't give a rat's ass about the American Auto Companies! They are still building the biggest, gas guzzling cars on the market when that is and never has been needed since gasoline started going up in the early 70's! If anyone thinks that only Japan or Germany has the technology for building cars, think again! Thank God that we are now building some of the cars here under the specifications and guidance of the foreign car makers. We could have and should have had that technology years ago.

Let them fail or help them change the way they build cars. I'm not paying for corporate mishandling due to a bunch of stubborn business as usual morons.

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars
0 points

The U.S. auto industry is failing because they thought the Hummer and huge SUVs that get 10mpg were good long-term investment strategies.

If they spent as much on engineering good cars as they do lobbying Congress every time the government tries in increase fuel efficiency standards, they'd be competitive against foreign companies.

I really would like to buy domestic, but I can't support such idiotic corporate policies.

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars
0 points

although i believe in a capitalist system, i also believe in the old tradition of the American System. we need to keep American workers working, and to keep American money flowing through American businesses.

Side: No, think of my pension
sparsely(498) Disputed
1 point

Workers sell their labor & time. Those are their commodities. They trade these for compensation which fulfills their needs & wants. Workers will and should, by virtue of their status, sell their labor to the bidder who can supply the best ratio of money earned to time spent. Anyone with even the most rudimentary grasp on this concept will eschew corporate loyalty and follow opportunity to whichever market is most profitable. So it's not necessary to prop up business even when they employ a large sector of our society. More employers and businesses will spring forth to fill the void.

Someone has to produce cars. There's a demand for them. If the current manufacturers are unable to do so in their current incarnations, it is not our fault or responsibility as taxpayers to prop them up.

Side: Yes, I only buy imported cars
0 points

What about all of the jobs that would go with the industry! That would be a spike of a nice sized percentage of the unemployment %! I mean it is totally their fault but I think we need them to stay around and keep giving Americans thousands of jobs.

Side: No, think of my pension