yeah, we need to stop buying foreign oil. Sure the polar bears may become extinct but then we could stop worrying about them. I mean, I think there's a place for all of God's creatures; right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

If we have a problem, why shouldn't we exploit all our options?

We should definitely do a cost-benefit analysis, but if drilling means surviving and/or less reliance on foreign oil, than yes.

Sure, it's nice to protect all the species on the planet, but we got to look out for our own as well. We're already well on our way to a shitty world (see: any of the over-population debates) so may as well live it up!

Now, that is a great point! If those damn polar bears would just become extinct we could stop worrying about them and that Alaskan oil would be flowing to where it's needed!

Prospective oil drilling in Alaska will necessarily destabilize the ecosystem that many animals rely on. Polar bears would be one of many species to be adversely affected by invasive drilling.

Destroying the balance of ecosystems is ultimately antithetical to human survival on this planet. If you are genuinely concerned with our survival and prosperity, then you have to get out of this quick-fix attitude towards development and start participating in the investment of long term, productive alternatives. Not doing so will only end what is becoming a zero-sum game.

I would rather risk the extinction of a few animal species than continue to enrich and rely upon middle east oil. All that would do is bring our enemies closer to nuclear capabilities, which could threaten to destabilize the entire planet and life as we know it.

I completely understand. I'm not looking for a quick-fix, what I'm saying is that overpopulation is what is going to destroy the balance of ecosystems and so we are basically fucked. (again, see: overpopulation debates, there's one on my profile). If we are unable to curb the population growth, survival and prosperity will not be possible. As it stands now the population will reach 8-12 billion by 2050 and we do not have the resources to support that (with current consumption rates which are always increasing). With that being said, if we don't figure it out we may as well drill in Alaska and take care of the here and now because there will be no future.

Keep in mind I'm all for fixing the problem, but if new technology can't keep up with the population increases and resource depletion we're fucked anyway.

Species come and species go and the sun still rises on the east every morning. Besides, if we fund stem cell research and cloning, we may learn ways to bring them back from extinction.

We've been drilling in Alaska for decades. Hell, Prudhoe Bay already passed peak in 1987.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/06/AR2005060601742.html

If you're talking about ANWAR, that's a different story. Drilling will be allowed if oil reaches $125 a barrel, according to the US Senate. We still have a few months until we get there. Now, if we were to reach that point, it would take at least a decade to get even a drop of oil out of that reserve. Why? Because it's spread out over 1.5 million acres of land (just 10.5 billion barrels, mind you), not in one field but scattered about. A large quantity of pipelines and facilities would need to be constructed all over this area to get the oil flowing, and that would take years to build and operate. And by the time we do get it operational, the rewards won't be all that spectacular.

Here are the facts: Currently we are importing around 12,604,000 barrels a day of foreign oil. ANWAR, at peak production (when it produces the largest quantity before it falls into terminal decline) will give us 870,000 barrels a day. You do the math.

"yeah, we need to stop buying foreign oil."

I have an idea - tell me if this is crazy or not - but how about we... I don't know... invest in alternative sources of energy so we don't NEED oil in the first place? Wouldn't that get us to stop buying foreign oil a lot faster than drilling in Alaska (which wouldn't do anything to reduce our dependence on foreign oil)? Trying to suck every last drop of oil out of the crust is just delaying the inevitable: oil will run out. It's a finite resource, and once the peak of a certain field is reached (when half the oil is depleted), production fails, so we don't even get all 10 billion barrels of oil because it'll reach a point where it's not cost-effective to continue to pump the oil if production is too low.

Should we drill for oil in Alaska? No, how about we invest in alternative sources of energy and eliminate our dependence on oil altogether? Because if our reliance on foreign oil is what you're worried about, then you'll be sad to hear that drilling in ANWAR won't help that at all.

"but if drilling means surviving and/or less reliance on foreign oil. . ."

It won't. See below.

"I would rather risk the extinction of a few animal species than continue to enrich and rely upon middle east oil."

ANWAR drilling won't do anything to solve that problem, sorry. You'd just be making a few species extinct while not even lightening our dependence on foreign oil.

"All that would do is bring our enemies closer to nuclear capabilities"

Which "enemies" are you talking about? None of the countries in the Middle East that have showed hostility to us, such as Libya, aren't even among the top 10 or even top 20 oil exporters to the U.S. And Iran, the big, bad country everyone fears will get nukes yet doesn't even have the infrastructure to delve into weapons research, doesn't sell oil to us in the first place, so a dependence on "Middle Eastern oil" has nothing to do with it. WHAT enemies are getting close to nuclear capabilities, and of these, which ones do we import substantial quantities of oil from?

While I do agree we should stop relying on Saudi oil, the whole thing about nuclear capabilities is a load of BS.

I meant surviving in the short term, not worried about the future of our species [which I realize doesn't make much sense anyway since we can still 'survive' on foreign oil, but still ;)] and 800,000+ barrels of oil would still allow less reliance on foreign oil.

I'm not going to really defend this stance anymore because it's assuming we don't fix the problems we already have, namely overpopulation--as in will our technological advancements keep up with our population increases and resource depletion. Either away, I understand your whole argument and it makes sense.

Invest in alternative sources of energy? Your arguments make no sense because that is exactly what we are doing. All over the united states companies are competing to find an efficient cheap energy source. The key to drilling in ANWAR is fixing the overpriced barrels of oil that iran is ripping us off for. Yes, if you want, we can keep giving iran and iraq and overload of cash for the next 10 years until we find an alternative source of energy. But you have to face the facts, an affordable alternative source of energy will not be around for a while, and drilling in Alaska would greatly benefit the economy and support less dependence on middle eastern countries.

I think war is more harmful to the balance of the ecosystem and is ultimately more antithetical to human survival on this planet than drilling for oil in Alaska. Creating an artificial dependence on oil can lead to a war for oil. Reduce the dependency and you reduce the chances of war.

It doesn't have to be invasive drilling and there's no guarantee that it will destabilize the ecosystem.

Last time I checked ....

Humans ARE the dominate species!

We do what we can do to survive...at as a decent price!

Current and past oil drilling in Alaska has shown that it can be done safely. With responsible drilling and responsible transportation of oil, ANWR would be fine. In relative comparison to the size of the state, the oil production process' footprint is minuscule.

It was said that the Alyeska Pipeline would disrupt the migrating habits of caribou and other wildlife, and it has been shown that this is false.

While I don't think that drilling for oil in Alaska or anywhere else would support us forever, it would definitely help and bide us time until more renewable energy resources could be researched and developed. Also, oil makes money for all involved; the oil companies, the state & the people of Alaska, and the federal government.

Finally, American oil would substantially decrease the amount of money being sent overseas. The price of oil for all of us could fall alot, and the economy would also benefit.

There are very, very few drawbacks of oil production in Northern Alaska, and we should drill there as soon as possible.

Wow, of course we shouldn't drill for oil. It threatens the wildlife horribly. And the statement “Sure the polar bears may become extinct but then we could stop worrying about them.” Is an extremely selfish and ignorant thing to say. If we drilled for oil it would only last the United States for less than a year and a half. There are plenty alternative energy sources out there, geothermal, hydrogen, hydropower, solar power, wind, fuel cells, ethanol, etc. It also puts arctic wolves, whales, and caribou in danger. Not just polar bears genius. Our money could be put too much better use. What we get out of this is not even worth it for what we will end up loosing.

I dont think oil will ever become man and its existence. If we dont have oil, we'll find another way to run things that make us lazy.

I dont think oil will ever become man and its existence. If we dont have oil, we'll find another way to run things that make us lazy.

All of those alternative fuel sources are good but we don't yet have the technology to mass produce it so until then we need to have oil.

You just joined 2hrs 23mins ago. This is your first argument. Do you know who I am? I guess you'll find out. Then you'll come back here and we'll have a good laugh over this ;)

And where will they live in this hypothetical future in which we kill them off by destroying their ecosystem, then bring them back?

Your argument makes it sound as though there are only two options: rely on foreign oil or produce our own. You've ignored altogether the third option, get over our dependence on oil ALTOGETHER, regardless of where we drill it.

Ludicrous!

Furthermore, assuming that we were the "dominant species", we would then have the additional obligation of "surviving" ethically. Being that we are not just dominant animals, but moral ones. And for the record, the ability to drive a car or power machinery is not essential to our survival. Humans survived for thousands of years without this. Biodiversity, on the other hand, is kind of essential to ecosystems functioning the way they ought to. And without functioning ecosystems in which to live, then survival will not be possible.

The price of oil would not fall.

And drilling for oil in Alaska will not support us at all. It will not eliminate our need for foreign oil, because we will not be able to sustain off domestic oil production alone. As an auxiliary source, it would provide about 876,000 barrels per day (according to U.S. Energy Dep't estimates) and would take 10 years to provide that. The U.S. currently uses 21,000,000 barrels per day. So if demand does not increase with population, then it would provide about 4% of our energy needs for approximately 27 years. Source

Is this marginal gain worth destroying one of the last surviving wildernesses in this country?

No, the danger does not outweigh the benefit.

At most, drilling for oil would cover 4% of our energy needs (assuming as unlikely as it would be that our energy needs stay the same and do not increase) for 27 years. That's basically a drop in the bucket. Furthermore, ANWR would come on stream at the same time as other domestic refineries were going out, so it wouldn't add to our domestic production really.

And it won't lower the price of oil.

So, no, let's keep the environment and the wilderness, and worry about ending our addiction to oil instead of from where we should feed it.

Can I have a good laugh too? Who are you anyway? ``````````````````````````````````````````

Ha, Ha, very funny. You know damn well who I am. Why I'm a legend in my own mind!... wait....

Well, we'll terraform some planet and when we bring them back we put them there ;)