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Debate Info

235
194
Yes No
Debate Score:429
Arguments:187
Total Votes:583
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 Yes (104)
 
 No (77)

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Should we kick illegal immigrants out of the USA?

Every day, illegal immigrants cross our border from Mexico.  These immigrants then find jobs in our cities and work without paying taxes.  They get the benefits of living in America, without the cost.  Should we allow this at all?  Should we help these immigrants at all?

Yes

Side Score: 235
VS.

No

Side Score: 194
10 points

Like I said in the other debate:

If they don't pay the taxes that this country functions on, then they do not deserve to be able to appreciate all of the wonderful opportunities this country has to offer.

| Side: yes
die0816(1) Disputed
4 points

Before people are able to pay taxes you have to give them the opportunity to do that - no papers, no taxes!

| Side: No
altarion(1935) Disputed
5 points

There is a big difference between being an illegal immigrant and being an immigrant waiting for citizenship. Unfortunately what you are talking about is an immigrant waiting for citizenship. But if you are talking about your Green Card I'm pretty sure that you get that in your home country, not in the one you are immigrating to.

| Side: yes
2 points

thats what the country is faling all these illegals comin to america not to build it but to work dont pay taxes gets everything handed to them stessin out the system senin all their monies to mexico or wherever and are we dummies or what

| Side: No
Jdeleon(14) Disputed
1 point

okay, lets be VERY clear on something. There are MANY illegal immigrants who pay taxes because they're paychecks get deducted weekly. They never see a single cent that get deducted due to the fact that they don't have a SS number. what do you mean illegal immigrants don't deserve appraciating all the "wonders" this country has to offer? they can't even get medical insurance. They can't go on plane due to identification issues. which "wonder" are you talking about? REMEMBER that an illegal immagrant won't get a taste of the "wonders" this country has to offer unless the country gives them the opportunity to.

| Side: No
Cherokeegirl(1) Disputed
1 point

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

Yes, illegal (undocumented/unauthorized) immigrants generally pay taxes the same way you and I pay them, but without access to most of the benefits that normally come with being a taxpayer.

How they pay

Income Tax

Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake or fraudulent social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. A growing number of undocumented immigrants now file their income taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). ITINs are issued by the IRS for filing purposes only and do not provide permission to work. According to the most recent estimates, at least 3 million unauthorized immigrants filed income taxes using ITINs in 2009. (NOTE: the IRS does not report undocumented immigrants to the Department of Homeland Security.)

Sales Tax

Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants—legal and illegal—all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase.

Property Tax

Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants—legal and illegal—pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent (clearly, landlords factor property taxes into rent).

Possible overpayment

Illegal immigrants pay into Social Security via automatic payroll deductions, but they can never claim Social Security benefits because they are here illegally and because their Social Security numbers are fake. In 2005, it was estimated that undocumented immigrants paid about $7 billion per year in Social Security taxes that they will never be able to reclaim.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 78 percent of American households that earned less than $33,000 owed no federal income taxes in 2011. Many low-income taxpayers only paid marginal amounts if they did owe. Because of their low income levels, most illegal immigrants would naturally fall into either of these categories. Many illegal immigrants don’t file, however, because they fear deportation. And if they don’t file, they are never refunded money that was automatically withheld from their paychecks. When a refund is owed but not paid out, that’s free money for the government.

Possible underpayment

Undocumented immigrants—and immigrants in general—are more likely to work in the informal or cash economy because these types of jobs are often the least desirable, most unstable and inconsistent, and lowest paid. Informal and cash jobs create big incentives not to claim cash income—undocumented immigrants and citizens alike find these incentives compelling. Most waiters and bartenders, for example, don’t claim and pay taxes on cash tips (or if they do, it’s usually just a small percentage). The high school student down the street usually doesn’t pay taxes on money earned from mowing your lawn or shoveling your driveway. Legally speaking, they’re supposed to claim this income.

Something important to keep in mind: the incomes of migrants working in the informal economy are generally so low—less than $13,000 per year, according a recent UCLA study—that most would ultimately be exempt from paying income taxes or have extremely low tax liability even if they did file and claim cash income.

Public Benefits

As taxpayers, most of us are eligible for an array of social safety nets like food stamps and unemployment insurance. The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act barred illegal immigrants from receiving any welfare benefits except in medical emergencies. It also barred legal immigrants from eligibility for welfare benefits during their first 5 years in the country. So, no, illegal immigrants do not exploit welfare services quite simply because they are not eligible to exploit them.

In Plyler v. Doe (1982), the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional to deny undocumented immigrants K-12 public education. Denying education would not only be crippling to the immigrants themselves, but would have negative implications for the rest of society. But regardless, by directly or indirectly paying property taxes, undocumented immigrants pay into public education. In general, immigrants benefit from police service, firefighters, national defense, parks, and other public goods. But again, the taxes they pay contribute to paying for these services.

Fourteen states offer free prenatal and postnatal care to pregnant women who are the country illegally. Some state legislators justify these benefits as long-term cost-saving measures, others as being consistent with pro-life beliefs. Low-income women with children under 5 are also eligible for WIC benefits regardless of immigration status.

American-born children of undocumented immigrants are eligible for benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. But it’s important to remember that the recipients of these benefits are children that the 14th Amendment has deemed full citizens of United States.

Tax credits

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration estimates that unauthorized immigrants received $4.2 billion in child tax credits in 2010. There is currently no legal mechanism that bans unauthorized immigrants from child tax credit refunds (although they are banned from refunds related to the Earned Income tax credit). Read more on this issue at FactCheck.org and the Washington Post.

Are illegal immigrants a drain on the system?

There’s no simple answer to this question because no one knows exactly how many people live and work in the U.S. illegally, exactly where they live, how much they pay in taxes, or the extent to which they benefit from public goods. This point underscores the difficultly of studying illegal immigration: the people involved do not want to be detected.

Any so-called “hard numbers” you see on the costs or contributions of illegal immigrants are often little more than guesses based on imperfect estimates of the size and distribution of the illegal population. This is the case with two widely-cited (and highly unscientific) “studies” on this topic: one from the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy and one from the Center for Immigration Studies.

It’s important to understand how certain organizations make their guesstimates. Guesstimates published by anti-immigration organizations like the Center for Immigration Studies, for example, include public services rightfully used by the American-born children in calculating the costs of illegal immigration.

At the federal level, some researchers believe that undocumented immigrants pay in more than they take out due to large and automatic contributions to Social Security that can never be claimed.

Figures vary greatly at the state and local levels. Areas with higher concentrations of undocumented immigrants, for example, spend more educating and providing emergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants than areas with lower concentrations. But this is not because undocumented immigrants are out to evade taxes and milk the system —as we learned above, most pay sales, property, and income taxes automatically and are ineligible for the vast majority of social services. Rather, the reason undocumented immigrants may take out more than they contribute has mostly to do with their status as low wage earners. Even if they use the same amount of public services as wealthier households, low-income households (be they made up of citizens or immigrants) are generally a net drain on public finances because our progressive system requires them to pay less income tax and by virtue of having less purchasing power, they pay less sales and property tax.

| Side: No
jessald(1909) Disputed
-4 points
Mifune1423(17) Disputed
3 points

If a hobo off the street knocked on your front door and said, hey man ill do some chores and contribute to the household just let me live with you would you do it?

The U.S has no obligation to bring anyone in. It is hilariously idiotic how you blame the U.S for so many illegals because they don't just hand out green cards to whoever wants them.

| Side: yes
7 points

I think so. Laws are put there for a reason. It's not like our borders are closed, people can get here lawfully, why should we allow them to break the law?

| Side: yes
GinnaSmiles(3) Disputed
3 points

The process to become a citizen of the United States is costly and long. The main reason immigrants come here is for money. Most of them don't have the money to join America legally.

| Side: No
JakeJ(3232) Disputed
1 point

Yeah its really hard to obey the law, lets just let it slide.

Thats like saying we should not arest poor peolpe for stealing money.

| Side: yes
0 points

exactly thats the point stay in their own dam country all these people are crowding us out this is america U know im tired of hearin about civil rights black people had it so hard OK WHY DO THEY KEEP BRINGING IT UP AB LINCOLN FREED THEM FORGET IT MEXICANS GO HOM<E AMERICANS BRING OUR JOBS BACK FROM MEXICO THATS WHERE WESINGHTON HOUSE IS I KNOW MY DAD WORKED THERE FOR YEARS ONE DAY NO ONE HAD A JOB THEY MOVED IT TO MEXICO OUR JOBS ARE THERE THEY ARE HERE USE USE USE ITS ALKL ABOUT BRAKIN AMERICA THEY DONT GIVE A DAM ABOUT AMERICANS

| Side: No
2 points

could not have said it better myself!

| Side: yes
jessald(1909) Disputed
0 points

"Laws are put there for a reason."

Yes, reasons like ignorance, racism, and xenophobia (fear of outsiders). However, these aren't good reasons. We should change the law.

Also, if you're a working class person and don't have family here in America, then our border is pretty much closed. We allow only a small number of people to immigrate each year. (source)

| Side: No
janscorvette(1) Disputed
2 points

I don't have fear of outsiders coming to our country but I have the fear of Illegals crossing our borders with drugs & all the border Patrol officer putting their life on the line for what. I am a working class person & Pay taxes, file my 1040 on time, I obey the laws. I would gladly show my license to any officer & they could check everyday. The fools that want to come to our country for the wrg reason. I don't want my mothers throat cut or raped because some fools decides to break in on her. This country has gone down hill after Ronald Reagan left office & now with Obama it is in the ditch. We need to bring our jobs back to American & only buy American made. People in Atl. had to stand in line in the heat for Section 8 housing. With LV handbags, Coach sunglasses. I can't afford that but they can. I don't get Food Stamps but I would gladly help any person that needed food. I have a Neighbor She has 3 kids all living in Section 8 housing. 3 bedrooms 2baths.Nice! Each kid has 3 kids so they get over $735. Food Stamps. Then they get a free Cell. phone. They go to churchs for help with a light bill. Medicaid pays for all of their Dr & Med. The parents work, never help the kids but this summer put in swim. Pool. Also 2 of the kids were adopted from Tenn. So Tenn. paid for the legal fees, then since they adopted kids in same family they got $1800. cash @ mo. to help with expenses. They decided to put the money on their house & pay it off in 8yrs since Tenn. was so nice. They took cruises every yr. leaving the girls by themselves. It turns out that both girls got preg. & One married a Child Molester. 5 yrs in prison & now back out. She also got money Ga to help with her 3 kidsand now 4th on way. Mexican parents left them to be raised in Tenn. & the girls would have been better off in Mexico. So no I'm tired of paying for useless people not bending their back to help themselves.

| Side: yes
familiar1985 Disputed
1 point

I don't think you can argue that the reasons for immigration laws are ignorance, racism, and xenophobia. I am an immigrant. Most of the people in this country immigrated here at one point. I think you have no clue as to what would happen with no immigration laws and i don't think you have the information necessary to make a propper opinion of whether the laws should be changed hence your reasons of racism etc.... How open our border is depends on many factors non of which are ignorance, racism or xenophobia. Its economic. Ignorance racism and xenophobia do not exist in economics.

| Side: yes
5 points

Why should we allow illegal immigrants to come into our country and not be arrested for breaking a federal law? Fuck if we went to their piss poor country and we had nothin to prove we could be there we would be arrested in no time. They come here illegally they have no right to be in OUR country yet they seem to think they do. The government needs to pull their head out their ass and do something to protect all of us legal citizens from the mexican drug cartel and other dumb shits who dont respect our laws and rules

| Side: yes

Yes we should.there is a reason that we use the the term illegal immigrant.it is becuase it is illegal to be living in the United States without proper paperwork. Cities these days are already over crowded with people who don't really care about society, why fill it with even more people who dont even know about our society. It doesnt make sense that these people should be allowed here, they should have to go through the citizenship process just like everyone else

| Side: yes
4 points

You must realize that these immigrants are outsourcing us.

They are taking our jobs, our money, and our lives.

| Side: yes
4 points

you are right please americans think all these people are here because they love america they love takin all they can get our money is fallin WHY ALL THESE DIFFERENT COUNTRYS COMIN TAKE ALL THEIR MONIES SEND IT HOME

| Side: yes
4 points

yes.... why should they be allowed if its illegal?

| Side: yes
4 points

6.7 million Americans out of work, 12 to 20 million Illegal aliens at work in our country. You do the math. The argument for uncontrolled immigration was "they do the jobs we don't want to do and if we kick them out it will hurt our standard of living". We need the jobs now and they server no purpose any more. Let them go work hard at home where they can help raise the standard of living of their own countries.

| Side: yes
3 points

u know what i hear americans wont do illegal jobs thats bullshit NO THEY GET TAKEN WITH CHEAP LABOR THAT WHY THEY GET HIRED ITS NOT BECAUSE AMERICANS WONT WORK

| Side: yes
jcampbe(23) Disputed
1 point

"6.7 million Americans out of work, 12 to 20 million Illegal aliens at work in our country. You do the math."

I have. Dare I say it, there are Americans out of work with no intentions to return. Many others have psychological issues, barring them from adapting the lifestyle.

"The argument for uncontrolled immigration was 'they do the jobs we don't want to do and if we kick them out it will hurt our standard of living'."

That's not necessarily true. In fact that could even be considered a tad elitist.

"We need the jobs now and they server no purpose any more. Let them go work hard at home where they can help raise the standard of living of their own countries."

Besides the spelling mistake (serve), the reason why they came here in the first place is that either they can't find meaningful work at home or the work they can find does not support the family they have.

Again, dare I say it, Part of the reason for the low standard of living within "their own countries" is the actions of many of our ancestors, and our continued ignorance to their negative effects. The Fact of the matter is that European (and even American) Colonialists settled many areas, without permission. They began to profit off of those areas, and when they finally left, left social chaos and a lack of natural resources.

The Americans and the British (French and Spanish by proxy), have been among the worst for this profiteering. We have, one, created huge countries on Native lands without permissions and do not show them even the slightest "thanks", and, two, Countries we once occupied have become overcome with corruption and anarchy. Proofs? Somalia (as well as other African Nations), Lots of South America, and Most of the Middle East.

I say "We", because I am of Scottish Ancestry (part of Great Britain), and do understand the negative effects of the choices of the country of my ancestors; as well as my current nation. I try not be ignorant to the global poverty our ancestors caused.

| Side: No
4 points

I don't feel sympathy for these aliens because they live here for free and bring society down. They get all the rights that are entitled to real Americans. Their children get a free education and and cause a lot of trouble because they end up on the streets and in gangs. When they do bad in school or end up on the streets then they feel that society owes them something when the only thing our society owes them is a kick in the @$$ back to their own country. They are just giant moochers who take away jobs from deserving Americans especially in these tough times.

| Side: yes
weirdgurlcB(2) Disputed
1 point

Reallyy now... I really disagree with this Because for:

ONE: they don't bring it down bc all of our ancestors are immigrants.

TWO: real americans you mean Native Americans, those are only the real americans here.

THREE: that makes ALL the children are getting free education, and if so, american children are getting in trouble and getting into gangs not only the aliens that you say.

FOUR: If you feel that wayy about getting sent to their own country, then it probably involves you because like i said "everyone except Natives Americans ARE immigrants in some way because of THEIR ANCESTORS"

FIFTH: who uses giant moochers??? they only take the jobs that have lower wages that you guys dont want to do. In these tough times you guys need to be looking for those jobs it doesnt matter how low or high they pay, a job is job right? or are you going to tell me I'm wrong now??

| Side: No
trumpeter93(991) Disputed
4 points

they don't bring it down bc all of our ancestors are immigrants.

Our ancestors were legal immigrants, coming through Ellis Island or Angel Island.

real americans you mean Native Americans

No. I mean naturally born United States citizens.

those are the only real americans here.

Technically anybody who is born here is a "real" American.

If you feel that wayy about getting sent to their own country, then it probably involves you because like i said "everyone except Natives Americans ARE immigrants in some way because of THEIR ANCESTORS."

An ignorant assumption. My ancestors legally came to the United States more than 150 years ago like most Americans.

who uses giant moochers???

Some Americans do. People who employ illegal immigrants should be heavily fined and the illegal/s should be deported.

This debate is about the current illegal immigration issue, not about whether Native Americans deserve more recognition.

http://www.laughtergenealogy.com/bin/header/immigrants.html

| Side: yes
2 points

I respect your fervor young lady, but I resent your statements. Recent science has discovered remnants of ancient Caucasians that once roamed Florida 20,000 years ago. This predates your "ownership" of this land, in case you actually ARE a Native American.

Let me ask you a direct question. How do you think Native Americans feel about "MULTICULTURALISM"? I would assume they are quite pissed about the idea.

| Side: yes
janscorvette(1) Disputed
1 point

I am Native American, from Cherokee, NC ..I don't support anyone coming to this country Illegally. I love my Anceestors and they would be alarmed at all the violence in this country today. We have all tryed to live together in peace but you do not come to this country with evil in your heart. All people can live together as one only when everyone puts forth effort to obey laws of land.

| Side: yes
1 point

When you "white" people forced your way into OUR land and you FORCED us to conform to YOUR ways. Latinos are indigenous to this side of the world. The Guatecos (declared Mexican or Hispanic putting them in a white category so white men couldn't enslave them as they did other indigenous people) Many of them still speak their native tongue. White men forced Spanish on them as white man forced french and English on the Canadian indigenous people, and how the white man forced english on us all the way into the 1980's. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/08/25/3834/

We tried to live in peace and harmony with the white man but the white man got greedy and murderous. The white man refused to obey our laws. If these people who are indigenous to our contenant cannot be allowed to stay why should you? Why don't you go back to the country of your ancestors and start your "American" revolution there?

http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/native-american-genocide/

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/

If anybody has a right to say who stays and who goes it would be all of our Natives to decide that. It would never happen, but the just right is ours. I understand that our American schools teach us to be ignorant and try to hide our dirty history like a cat hides their dirty deeds. This is a start to your education. I hope you will be enlightened. :)

http://www.garyjennings.com/

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

Yes, illegal (undocumented/unauthorized) immigrants generally pay taxes the same way you and I pay them, but without access to most of the benefits that normally come with being a taxpayer.

How they pay

Income Tax

Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake or fraudulent social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. A growing number of undocumented immigrants now file their income taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). ITINs are issued by the IRS for filing purposes only and do not provide permission to work. According to the most recent estimates, at least 3 million unauthorized immigrants filed income taxes using ITINs in 2009. (NOTE: the IRS does not report undocumented immigrants to the Department of Homeland Security.)

Sales Tax

Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants—legal and illegal—all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase.

Property Tax

Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants—legal and illegal—pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent (clearly, landlords factor property taxes into rent).

Possible overpayment

Illegal immigrants pay into Social Security via automatic payroll deductions, but they can never claim Social Security benefits because they are here illegally and because their Social Security numbers are fake. In 2005, it was estimated that undocumented immigrants paid about $7 billion per year in Social Security taxes that they will never be able to reclaim.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 78 percent of American households that earned less than $33,000 owed no federal income taxes in 2011. Many low-income taxpayers only paid marginal amounts if they did owe. Because of their low income levels, most illegal immigrants would naturally fall into either of these categories. Many illegal immigrants don’t file, however, because they fear deportation. And if they don’t file, they are never refunded money that was automatically withheld from their paychecks. When a refund is owed but not paid out, that’s free money for the government.

Possible underpayment

Undocumented immigrants—and immigrants in general—are more likely to work in the informal or cash economy because these types of jobs are often the least desirable, most unstable and inconsistent, and lowest paid. Informal and cash jobs create big incentives not to claim cash income—undocumented immigrants and citizens alike find these incentives compelling. Most waiters and bartenders, for example, don’t claim and pay taxes on cash tips (or if they do, it’s usually just a small percentage). The high school student down the street usually doesn’t pay taxes on money earned from mowing your lawn or shoveling your driveway. Legally speaking, they’re supposed to claim this income.

Something important to keep in mind: the incomes of migrants working in the informal economy are generally so low—less than $13,000 per year, according a recent UCLA study—that most would ultimately be exempt from paying income taxes or have extremely low tax liability even if they did file and claim cash income.

Public Benefits

As taxpayers, most of us are eligible for an array of social safety nets like food stamps and unemployment insurance. The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act barred illegal immigrants from receiving any welfare benefits except in medical emergencies. It also barred legal immigrants from eligibility for welfare benefits during their first 5 years in the country. So, no, illegal immigrants do not exploit welfare services quite simply because they are not eligible to exploit them.

In Plyler v. Doe (1982), the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional to deny undocumented immigrants K-12 public education. Denying education would not only be crippling to the immigrants themselves, but would have negative implications for the rest of society. But regardless, by directly or indirectly paying property taxes, undocumented immigrants pay into public education. In general, immigrants benefit from police service, firefighters, national defense, parks, and other public goods. But again, the taxes they pay contribute to paying for these services.

Fourteen states offer free prenatal and postnatal care to pregnant women who are the country illegally. Some state legislators justify these benefits as long-term cost-saving measures, others as being consistent with pro-life beliefs. Low-income women with children under 5 are also eligible for WIC benefits regardless of immigration status.

American-born children of undocumented immigrants are eligible for benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. But it’s important to remember that the recipients of these benefits are children that the 14th Amendment has deemed full citizens of United States.

Tax credits

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration estimates that unauthorized immigrants received $4.2 billion in child tax credits in 2010. There is currently no legal mechanism that bans unauthorized immigrants from child tax credit refunds (although they are banned from refunds related to the Earned Income tax credit). Read more on this issue at FactCheck.org and the Washington Post.

Are illegal immigrants a drain on the system?

There’s no simple answer to this question because no one knows exactly how many people live and work in the U.S. illegally, exactly where they live, how much they pay in taxes, or the extent to which they benefit from public goods. This point underscores the difficultly of studying illegal immigration: the people involved do not want to be detected.

Any so-called “hard numbers” you see on the costs or contributions of illegal immigrants are often little more than guesses based on imperfect estimates of the size and distribution of the illegal population. This is the case with two widely-cited (and highly unscientific) “studies” on this topic: one from the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy and one from the Center for Immigration Studies.

It’s important to understand how certain organizations make their guesstimates. Guesstimates published by anti-immigration organizations like the Center for Immigration Studies, for example, include public services rightfully used by the American-born children in calculating the costs of illegal immigration.

At the federal level, some researchers believe that undocumented immigrants pay in more than they take out due to large and automatic contributions to Social Security that can never be claimed.

Figures vary greatly at the state and local levels. Areas with higher concentrations of undocumented immigrants, for example, spend more educating and providing emergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants than areas with lower concentrations. But this is not because undocumented immigrants are out to evade taxes and milk the system —as we learned above, most pay sales, property, and income taxes automatically and are ineligible for the vast majority of social services. Rather, the reason undocumented immigrants may take out more than they contribute has mostly to do with their status as low wage earners. Even if they use the same amount of public services as wealthier households, low-income households (be they made up of citizens or immigrants) are generally a net drain on public finances because our progressive system requires them to pay less income tax and by virtue of having less purchasing power, they pay less sales and property tax.

| Side: No
3 points

Illegal immigration is in no way fair to all of the hard working legal immigrants who pay their taxes.

| Side: yes
2 points

no illegal pays taxes WHO TOLD U THEY DO U NEED TO KNOW WHAT U ARE TALKIN ABOUT I KNOW U ARE LEGAL RIGHT? YEH U PAY TAXES ILLEGALS DO NOT

| Side: yes
3 points

Yes they do not pay taxes there fore it is not fair to us Americans, if they pay taxes and work for minimum wage then I dont give a dam.

| Side: yes
3 points

there draining our resources

| Side: yes
3 points

if we kick the illegal immigrants out of the country the unemployment rate will drop because employers will be force to hire some one at minimum wage rather than 5 bucks a day. the swine flu also came form Mexico if we didn't have the border open to who ever wants in many great things will change. we also need to build a wall on the border because if you build it they can't come.

| Side: yes
3 points

They come over here and take our jobs, get free loans, benefits that American's can not get.They receive certain benefits. I used to manage motels and they have been bought up by people who bombed our country . What is wrong with this pitcher? i have been told by them that they only come over here to get rich, free education for their kids, no taxes for ten years, and then they put the business in another family members name so they don't have to pay for another 10 years ect..... This is not America any more. It belongs to the forgien people who can receive anything because they are a minority. I have had cancer, heart attack and other prolbems and I tried to get help with medical bills. I do not get it because they said i was not sick enough but the people I work for get it and they own a motel. They are from India. I think America should take back its country and send the rest home.

| Side: yes
truthteller(64) Disputed
2 points

It seems to me that ur America does not exist anymore ur looking for a white America were white Americans have control over it and that was over years ago now the nation is about multi cultures are majority but this country was from native Americans and was built on immigrant slave labor from blacks Mexicans and Chinese and others it will never go back to that the quicker u relize that the better u will b

| Side: No
3 points

For several years, Border Control has been standing by as illegal immigrants come into our country. My uncle is part of the Border Control, and he once told me that when he spotted an illegal immigrant crossing the border. He told his Lieutenant immediately , but the only thing his Lieutenant did was say, "It's only one. We'll get another one." My uncle was so shocked-he quit a year later due to the lack of border control. If they are going to come into this country just so they can live "freely" then they're sadly mistaken. We will not give up until they are all shipped back to their country. My sister's boyfriend was in a motorcycle accident, he was hit by an illegal Italian immigrant. She was immediately shipped back to Italy while her boyfriend's left arm was left disabled. He got no justice out of it. If they are going to come into our country and do this to us, then we might as just look them in the face and say, "You're going back either by truck or by me." And what is the government doing to stop this? Nothing! This is what I call a lack of justice to the hard-working Americans who DESERVE to be in this fine country that is over-run by illegal immigrants. cough "Mexicans" cough

| Side: yes
3 points

ugh GET OUT. we dont like you. you screw up our economy, take our jobs, and expect more!!! Hey- we have america, you have mexico. ITS YOUR COUNTRY! UR PROBLEMS. there are so many liberals in our society and thats why most of you are coming in! Most of the convicts are illegal immigrants- i always see a murder story, and before they show the criminal, me and my mom guess an illegal immigrant: And we're ALWAYS RIGHT. just go away.

| Side: yes
2 points

I think that they should be deported yes, look at our economy it is collapsing and all the while I see Mexicans sendind money western Union to Mexico, we need that money circulation in our own country now futhermore there has got to come a time where we stop letting people come here to live, America needs to take care of America, the goverment had it to where they let so many immigrants move here in a year, well when we continue to support illegal immigration it causes an over population and then our children start suffering so people from other countries can recieve what we are born into, our right is to protect our way of life does it not upset you to see so many Americans struggling and so many of our fathers out of work because of illegal immigrants, it is becommin a shame I think America should shut down its borders at least until we get our economy back on track.

| Side: yes
jessald(1909) Disputed
2 points

"I see Mexicans sending money western Union to Mexico"

If I get payed $100 it's because I created more than $100 in value for my employer. Therefore, even if they send money home they're contributing more to the economy than they're taking away.

| Side: No
janscorvette(1) Disputed
0 points

Wrong, If you get paid $100.00 after taxes than you have contributed to our Nation. They do not pay taxes so that mean the $100.00 they send home has never been taxed. They still get free Housing, food stamps, drs & Emergency Rooms and the schools have to have Spanish teachers. Where did English for one and all go.

| Side: No
2 points

u are right thats what i keep sayin it makes your stomach turn to see them in walmart sending all their monies to their country thats why our country is falling we see it OBAMA IS ANTI_AMERICAN HE MIGHT AS WELL BE ILLLEGAL

| Side: yes
2 points

Illegal or not , they shouldn't even have the opportunity for eligability to become US citizens .

Don't we , as Americans , have our share of problems to deal with ?

( crime / housing / overcrowded schools , jails , prisons , communities / cocheroaches / lice ... must I go on ?

| Side: yes
2 points

first off the civil rights and aclu has no buiness supporting illegals they arent even citizens what the hell is this country comin to instead of closing george washinghton state park for no money get some of obamas 5 mill to kjeep it open OH I FORGOT HE LOVES THIS COUNTRY FALLIN TO ITS KNEES there is so much shit goin on everything that comes out of his mouth hurts this country BOO_HOO KICK OUT ILLEGALS SO AMERICANS CAN BUILD BACK THIS COUNTRY

| Side: yes
1 point

ACLU, Black colleges, Black Miss America -What would happen if we wanted to do the 1000 White Man March. White Miss America, White Colleges -no blacks allowed. Now how as a nation are we suppose to put up with the problems when we can't even begin to become One Nation Under God. I don't see people black or white...I see if they are good people with morals & I don't care. It's not the 50's Obama has been the biggest failure for the black people of Atlanta...When a black lady was saying he was going to give her a new house, new car & all the money she needed. She was the one complaining that her 50" TV needed to be bigger. Please, Our soldiers are out in the Heat that no one should bare & People have their hands out for all the free government assistance they can get. Try bending your back & doing a job even if it is picking up Aluminum cans.

| Side: yes
2 points

i say we should. starting with white people. send them all back to europe. im sure the native americans wont miss you.

| Side: yes
2 points

Kick all illegal people out? YES

Kick all people who have either been born here or have gotten a green card? NO

people have the choice to make it legal. why not just go through regestration and stuff?

| Side: yes
3 points

I agree with you but the reason they dont become legal is bc it is too expensive and takes forever. They would rather mooch off our government than actually have to pay towards it. But if you are born here to illegal immigrants you shouldnt be allowed to become a citizen its bull shit because then the parents can stay even if they're still illegal

| Side: yes
2 points

America really should let them stay here. Most of them have families. Now the ones who are drug smuggling and committing crimes should be kicked out.

| Side: yes
2 points

Its a shock that there are legal citizens voting to keep illegal immigrants. The polls are shocking. Shocking that its even open for discussion. Anything illegal is illegal. There is no argument. Keeping illegals to help our society is bending the law to take advantage of people. Whether it helps or hurts the country does not matter. It is illegal.

| Side: No
0 points

Yes, and the government actually suing Arizona when they wanted to uphold a law already in place is absolutely unnerving! IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!

Why is it that so many Americans feel this way but nothing is being done to slow or stop this issue? In fact our president is simply bypassing congress now, the dream act?

OUR COUNTRY SHOULD BE OUTRAGED AND PROTESTING IN THE STREETS!!

| Side: Yes
2 points

Yes, kick them ALL out: illegals, whites, blacks, europeans, africans, asians, hindus etc. Leave only LEGAL residents - the Indigenous Tribes that lived here for many thousands of years.

Kick me out as well, I am a "legal" resident from Europe. I will leave by myself once everyone is leaving. I will do that GLADLY!

| Side: yes
2 points

Kick them out also, so the "U.S." e-CON-omy collapses being run by a bunch of lazy, greedy bastards.

| Side: yes
2 points

this topic is so funny to me.. people always want to blame the immigrants for not paying taxes and etc etc etc. but the funny thing is this there are U.S citizens who are drug dealers who make more money in 1 month then most Americans make in a few years. They dont pay taxes on that money at all, it is all pocketed and banked, there are little kids who babysit YOUR children who might get paid 60 dollars a night do they pay taxes?? NOPE, there are tons of U.S citizens who work and dont pay taxes, that little boy who does your yard work for 20 dollars does he give a percentage back to the IRS?? HELL NO..... Ive worked in rich cities doing security at gated communities and every morning i have seen these Latino women come in as house keepers and they get paid cash, some of them are legal and some of them are not but they still get hired by these rich AMERICANS, so instead of being a little cry baby ass bitch about immigrant coming from Mexico YOU people need to complain to the people who HIRE the immigrants, and its not just immigrants that work tax free it is US CITIZENS who also make money and dont document it! Everyone is so quick to say they they are taking jobs but how many of your friends will take the jobs that immigrants will??? dont worry ill wait!!! ................... Americans are so cought up on status quota that they will decline a job that pays 7 dollars an hour because they want more, but the folks from Mexico will take it and bank it and support a whole family!!! so STFU and think outside the box.

| Side: yes
2 points

ok frst of all lets get this straight if your here legally fine. welcome to be here. but we cant have people taking jobs for less money legal or not because then other people. NOT just amercicans cant go out and get well paying jobs for at least a half decent life. its not the illegals that are doing this to us its the companies that are willing to pay them for a lower salary.

| Side: yes
Valleyguy6(1) Disputed
1 point

I say we should burn illegal immigrants at the stake like we used to screw them everywhere I go there are arabs and mexicans who cant speak a lick or english and get mad at us AMERICANS who dont know there words. I just think should put to death all immigrants in jail and get these illegal fuckers who take our jobs that americans deserve I just wanna beat them with a bat till there so fucking sorry for ever comeing here our laws should be harsh illegal immigrants we should shoot who ever is trying to cross our borders and get our country back Blacks and whites have been here and we are the people who need jobs not you bastards who still our money and you dont even belong here. Why should they get special treatment when americans cannot if it was legally allowed I would beat the fuck out of everyone illegal immagrant I see shit they would do it to us if we went to there country so why show them the mercy other countrys would not show us.

| Side: yes
james93(1) Disputed
2 points

If you want illegal immigrant jobs then go ahead and get them. You are gonna end up getting paid little money. If that's what you think Americans deserve. The reason why we are in a recession is because we went into a war we probably didn't need to. Not because illegal immigrants have low paying jobs. If Americans are mad because they cant get minimum wage jobs in this economy then they have no one to blame than themselves and our government.

| Side: Yes
2 points

Now before someone jumps on my case simply for the fact of siding with the "yes" side, I want you to hear why I say this.

Our border should simply be about registry, like a non-exclusive club. It has a leader, it has rules, a system of function, and order. And it would be a good idea that you keep a list of all the people in the club simply for order efficiency and records.When someone wants to join the club, they go up and give them their information and usually are able to join the club.

As the United States of America, we should have a system similar to that. One where our borders are simply there to be an obstacle (hopefully complete stopper) for real criminals who should be punished, and those who wish to come to the USA or those running from a cruel or unfair government should be able to simply by doing it LEGALLY. Coming here legally should not be a hassle. If you are running from a cruel or unfair government we will protect you while you are getting citizenship into our country.

Citizenship should simply be that, joining the club.

But because the USA is so huge, it's going to be a bit different than a club. This information that our citizenship has, is used to keep the order of function in the country. It's used to enforce the laws and to keep the safety.

THIS is how it should run. And THIS is how I would approve of kicking out those who do not come here legally.

| Side: yes
2 points

Hell yes! They are costing us too much money !

| Side: Yes
1 point
| Side: Debate made already
altarion(1935) Disputed
2 points

Awe. So what? Maybe a new wave of ideas will come into this debate that wasn't presented in the other one. (;

| Side: No
1 point

Illegals ruin it for people to get here legally. It took my aunt 10 years from being sponsored to actually being given permission from immigration (along with a visa and what not) to move here to the U.S. Let's look at it from the other side of things though. Americans sort of have a "oh I'm so above that" mentality when it comes to finding work. So what happens? Illegals are employed to come here and pick our apples, clean our homes, etc. Perhaps if they were removed, we could actually see some work ethic come back to America. You have to give the illegals this, they work for their money...and they work hard since they are probably going to be paid under the table. As such they're probably not going to complain to anyone if they're getting paid below minimum wage for fear of being reported and then deported. So to cut it short: remove em, and hopefully we can get some work ethic back into this fine country. You have to work to live here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for immigration. We are all the descendants of immigrants. You are more than welcome into this country if you do it the legal way...that also means though that immigration is going to have to dissolve their current process of reviewing immigration apps. Why is it that it takes 10 years for a person from Southeast Asia to come here legally, but less than half that amount of time for someone from say, England, to get here?

| Side: yes
1 point

I have wonderful neighbors that are Mexican, they are here legally, they have children that speak perfect english, have great manners. This is the kind of legal immigrant that the USA needs. Not the illegal immigrants that want to murder,rape,sell drugs to innocent people. We should try to look after each other and I love my neighbors. They have BBQ's in the summer & invite all. This subdivision is a mixture, Blacks, Whites, Scottish, German we all get along..It can work when everyone is trying to help America not tear it down. GOD BLESS AMERICA

| Side: yes
1 point

illegal immigrants...keyword illegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

| Side: yes
Cherokeegirl(1) Clarified
1 point

Hahaha Colombus was the first one here and we have a national holiday for him. :)

| Side: Yes
1 point

Yes illegal immigrants do the jobs we don't want to do, and for low pay. That is true, but we won't suffer regardless if they get kicked out or not. Reason being, we have other people to do those jobs for us, inmates! I have yet to decide whether or not using prisoners to do field work is slave labor but I do know that it is in process. That will be another argument for another day. I do think that if you want to live in this country then you must obied by the laws. Become a citizen, pay your taxes and quit taking advantage of our country in a way that will negatively impact us all! And how can you even compare this to the civil rights era and say we're being racist? There is one huge difference, the blacks were citizens while these people are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Btw I am hispanic as well.

| Side: yes
1 point

We should kick out illegal aliens out of our HOME country because they take many jobs leaving many hard wroking americans loose a great oppurtunity and possibly ruining the life of many, for example; a employee at some construction site gets a call that he is cut from the job and the cause of that call was because fo mexicans that don't have the right to sneak into our country and take a job that gives a family to stay in there homes and live in this very tough economy. Also the effect of the illegal immigrants of them just somming into our country tells us, as amercians, that our border patrol is not helping or simply keeping them out of america.;p

| Side: Yes
1 point

alot of the immigrants are trying to take over the country, by making it theirs, building their temples of worship.being rude unkind,and not having respect for the countries rules. they belive they are above the law. they make up their own rules, along the way, and make up their beliefs to work in their own selfish, evil interests. alot of them dont live peacefully side by side with ,the people that were born in that country. they put fear into the good people. wake up america, they will invade, and inforce, their religons upon you,.take over, make the country they move into theirs. wake up united kingdom, your being invaded to.

| Side: Yes
1 point

people live in fear of alot of immigrants, to afraid to speak their thoughts out loud, we have been brain washed that we must accept, they are here to stay .

| Side: Yes
1 point

g et the buggers out,,, now,,, to hell with stupid idiots much that want to save these uneducated peasants ,, worthless,, taking up to much airspace,, their living is of a third world ,, and you want to have these worthless peasants in the usa ,, they can't vote ,, they take spaces in the us schools,, the idiot parents have kids in the us to get the benefits and try to make them stay here,,, try this in europe,, they will kick you out immediately,, I am mad as hell ,,, get the buggers out and save the usa ,,,

| Side: Yes
1 point

Forget taxes and all other self-righteous reasons for allowing illegals to stay in this country.

We are a country of law. Illegal means against the law. Other immigrants get here legally. So should the Mexicans.

| Side: Yes
1 point

It's easier for Mexicans to come here because they are our neighbors and btw California was once Mexico. So not all Mexicans that live in the U.S. are illegals. What if China or Africa was next door like Mexico? I'm sure they would hop that fence the same way.

| Side: Yes
1 point

I do think all illegal immigrants should be ordered to leave immediately by the president over international television. Activate the The United States Marine Corp to secure our borders and assist in there removal. Set a deadline of three months. Make it mandatory to have proof of ID at all times. Then after three months make the first time you are caught here illegally a felony charge with a minimal sentence of five years imprisonment of hard labor. Incarcerate the owner or president of any company that gives jobs to illegals and fine them one million dollars per person. I have this opinion because of the out of control exploitation of every benefit this country has to offer legal immigrants and Americans. Also because of the audacity that these illegals have telling Americans born here to go back to Europe but their anchor babies born here have citizenship. I am tired of watching the illegals burn the American flag or hanging their flag over top of ours that is turned upside down. I think the thing that makes me the angriest is the spineless, gutless traitors who give them American jobs that we supposedly don't want. Illegal mexicans who have deserted their own country when they need help the most are the major problem. The mexican military has plenty of work for them to help fight the war against drugs. They are deserters of their own county and criminals here. The last thing is that the some legal immigrants that are here and have done everything the right way to be here legally know or are friends with people who are illegals and won't report them. The illegals openly say they are here to take over this country and have the worlds most dangerous gang operating successfully here spreading terror. America will eventually take care of this problem but its going to take Americans and military action and when the order is finally given the Battle of Buena Vista is going to look like a picnic.

| Side: Yes
Jdeleon(14) Disputed
2 points

you're obiously beyond ignorant, and have been corrupted by a bunch of either racist or uneducated people. You're ignorant due to the fact that you profile ALL illegal immigrants as criminals who do no good for this country due to action of other illegal immigrants. Thats like me saying ALL americans are a bunch of fat, lazy, and racist people...which is not true at all. unless you're an educated individual you'd know that your ancestors were immigrants just like my ancestors. If not a single person in your family tree was an immigrant than you're most likely a native american. Pick up a book sometime, i might help you understand things a lot more. In case you didn't know diversity has kept this country running for years, your mentality unfortunately poisons the american constitution and it so sickens other americans. I can promise you that there are immigrants (not just from mexico, but from all continents) who work harder than you and respespect the american flag more than you ever will. Educate yourself bud, help your country not fail due to lack of education.

| Side: No
1 point

Well said, we need more people to think like this and force the government to do something! Check the video link. These people are criminals not harmless strawberry pickers!

Supporting Evidence: CRIMINALS SHI**ING ON OUR FLAG! (www.youtube.com)
| Side: Yes
1 point

One thing I keep reading over and over again in these arguments "in favor of turning our heads while millions violate our federal laws" is "they do jobs Americans don't want to do."

Well I don't know where the hell you people have been but that is just WRONG, they have managed to push themselves into nearly every profession out there! So sorry to inform you but they are not just picking lettuce anymore folks, they are working in the schools, in the bank, in the grocery store, in construction, in the hospitals etc...

With our government coddling illegals for votes (which seems crazy to me they are able to vote without being citizens) we don't stand a chance as a Country to get back on track.

In closing I would like to say, NO NEED to DEPORT (why waste the money?)

SIMPLY TAKE AWAY THE OPPORTUNITIES (free medical, food, housing,& jobs) THEY

WILL GO AWAY WITH THEM!

Afterthought - an amendment to the constitution declaring babies of illegals are still illegals needs to be be in place.

Then watch as our good old USA starts returning to it's former English speaking glory.

Supporting Evidence: Perhaps next rapists will march making demands?! (www.youtube.com)
| Side: Yes
1 point

Go to their country and see how long their government will let you stay. Their laws are tougher than ours. They dont want americans, they just want our money. Most hispanics send the money they make back to their families so we lose in the end result by not having their money stay here and spent in our stores and factories, they really dont care about becoming a citizen, they just want to work here and get our money. And if by some chance an illegal gets a real job here, he cannot be fired for being an illegal, the us government wants the tax dollars that are with held from the paycheck, only the INS can remove them from an employer. Alot of states will grant drivers licenses to an illegal without any legal paper work, just a itin # given by the IRS to illegals, but an american has to jump thru hoops to get a drivers license, birth certificate and a second form of ID. I do believe that as a country we should open our arms to all, but do it the proper way, people will start a new forgery system that will show their children have been here and doing all the stuff that Obama has laid out as the new law takes affect, doing the right thing has always been the amercian way, we as a people are a very forgiving people, we just dont want to be taken for granted and abused. Lets keep the system we have, it seems to work, and it seemed to work for the last 100 years.

| Side: Yes
Cherokeegirl(1) Disputed
1 point

Actually in Mexico you can stay as long as you like. All you need is an American passport to get back to the U.S. and a permit to go further past the border towns and it costs 15 dollars. It takes about 10 minutes to get the permit. Mexicans need a passport and a visa. The passport is fairly easy to get. The visa takes years up to 20yrs sometimes and it costs thousands of dolaars and countless traveling for interviews to dangerous cities and you are still not guaranteed a visa even if you qualify according to their list of demands. It gets even more complicated and you will just have to your own research if you would even care to have EDUCATED opinions and or answers about this issue.

| Side: No
1 point

They are not like early ancestors of this country which wanted to permanently settle here and make this a great country. They come in, reap tax payer benefits and often will return to country of origin after they have used benefits. It is DISGUSTING!!! Our ERs and labor and delivery units are flooded with illegals that haven't paid a dime of US taxes and reap the benefits.

| Side: Yes
1 point

Can someone please explain to me how diversity is our strength? I keep hearing this mantra but have never really seen or heard of a solid example. Also, how come there aren't any non-White majority countries embracing this ideology?

| Side: Yes
1 point

Especially Canadian Geese. They come down here to party, poop, honk and startle small dogs. They don't pay taxes and mess up our sidewalks. If they were tastier, maybe, they could give something back.

| Side: Yes
1 point

Let's say I have one position open in my company and two people ( an American citizen and an illegal that has permission to work ) apply. I will hire the American citizen over any illegal that has permission to work here and it's not discrimination because it's my company, and I'll send the illegal to do yard work for Obama at his expense and not of the tax payers.

| Side: Yes
1 point

One people should not be preferred over the rest of the world. Our United States was meant to be a melting pot. Self serving so called "americans" are Traitors and "they" should LEAVE. When was the last time you encountered a group of people in a walmart with a heavy say german accent, well thas too long (facts)

I'm Skull and I'm sick of it, savvy!

| Side: Yes
1 point

iam tired of mexicans always saying we only take jobs americans wont do .thats a bunch of .theres no such thing.its different if only a few hundred came here. but its 30 million of them and they all came here expecting us to house them feed them and medical and school them all for free that speaks volumes of there charictor.hay illegal or not they have no right being in this country look at the hundreds of billions they cost tax payers.EXTERMINATE EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM AND YES KICK EVERY LAST ONE OUT OF THIS COUNTRY. THEY ALL LIE.CON STEEL CHEAT.CONIVE.THEY ARE PUBLIC ENEMY # 1 AND DONT EVEN SAY IAM A RACIST LOOK WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO THIS COUNTRY ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE OUR GOVERNMENT DECLAIRES OPEN SEASON ON BORDER CROSSERS .

| Side: Yes
1 point

THATS A BUNCH OF CRAP 230 SAY KICK EM OUT. AND 194 SAY LET EM STAY.THATS WHAT I MEAN MEXICANS ARE A BUNCH OF LYING CON ARTISTS I GAURANTEE THAT ATLEAST 90% OF ALL AMERICANS WHO DONT HAVE SOMTHING TO GAIN WANTS THEM ALL KICKED OUT AND 5% OF AMERICANS WHO HAVE SOMTHING TO GAIN STILL WANT THEM ALL KICKED OUT SO 230 TO 194 WERE NOT AS DUMB AS YOU LOOK.

| Side: Yes
1 point

illegals come to our country and cost us tax payers money. they drive down wages and commit crime and bring down property value. jobs in this country are for Americans only. So many Americans died making this country great and powerful. Let illegals go to their country and use this country as a example and to make there home good. die for there freedoms where they were born. This is our home, this is our country. Our children and our people come first. period. all illegals must go, and there children.

| Side: Yes
1 point

They simply have no right to be here, it's really that simple. As was said before, there are ways to move here legally.

| Side: Yes
0 points

kick em out because they dont pay much tax they only over there for $$$ send them away

| Side: yes
1 point

I agree if they are here illegally send them home with instructions on how to obtain legal citizenship!!!

| Side: yes
0 points

Illegal immigration is a cancer that continues to fester in our society, if you want to gain legal citizenship go through the process that all legal immigrants who migrate here have to go through. The job market is scarce and illegal immigrants absorb what is left of the marketplace, jobs that legal immigrants should obtain but are not given the opportunity because an illegal will work for cheaper wages, not necessarily harder but cheaper, many illegal immigrants will utilize our welfare system like parasites and add nothing in return since most of our tax dollars finance welfare programs.

| Side: Yes
0 points

1. Its illegal

2. Its unfair to the legal citizens

3. creates an atmosphere of chaos and animosity among groups

4. Create financial hardship for citizens

5. causes economic problems for city & state

6. Drain on the economic resources leading to bankruptcy

7. Legal school children suufer because all resources and attention is focused on the non enlish speaking illegal students

| Side: Yes
Jdeleon(14) Disputed
2 points

wow, you're ignorant and obviously not very well educated on the subject. Yeah its illegal, just as it is in any other country. unfair to LEGAL citizens you say? Is it unfair in the sense that LEGAL citizens may have heath insurance and ILLEGAL immigrants may not. creates an atmosphere of chaos? where do you live? in an action movie? creates economic issues for cities and states? Allow me to educate you on the subject, They're is LARGE amount, or the majority of ILLEGAL immigrants who get taxes decucted from their paychecks (yeah, illegal immigrants can be on a payroll). Unfortunately, they may never get a single cent of the federal tax back due to the fact that do not have a SS number. So technically, the state and the country gets to keep a lot of money cause they don't theres no tax rebate for illegal immigrants. creates financial hardship for citizens?! some illegal immigrants don't have kids, and they pay taxes. some of that tax money gets invested on public school. Illegal immigrants help and get absolutely NOTHING in return. Illegal immigrants drain the economy leading to bankruptcy? Did it ever cross your mind that maybe the economy is crap cause money keeps getting invested in the wrong places? or maybe cause the US continues to spend money they don't have? and maybe because the US is pumping millions of dollars on a unessesary "war"? Finally, legal students suffer? majority of the immigrant students, both legal and illegal come into this country with a higher level of education and discipline. (Text book information, look it up). Every year schools across the country shut down they're ESL programs do to budget cuts. and why the budget cuts you may ask. because the US continues to invest tax payers money on the wrong things. You should really consider doing some research and maybe education yourself before you contribute to an EDUCATED DEBATE. Ignorance can contribute to failure in this country, NOT illegal immigrants.

| Side: No
mexicanhater(3) Clarified
1 point

jdeleon

you dont have a clue what ur saying and thats a fact. dude ur the won who isnt educated ur time will come u little maggit.

| Side: Yes
reidredi(3) Disputed
1 point

It doesnt matter. American jobs are for Americans only. This is no charity. Illegals take American jobs and drive down wages. I grew up in southern California and couldnt even get a job in construction because illegals were working for almost nothing. Make Your country great by dying for your freedoms like our fathers did in your own country. America will win. we always do.

| Side: Yes
Jdeleon(14) Clarified
1 point

wow, you're ignorant and obviously not very well educated on the subject. Yeah its illegal, just as it is in any other country. unfair to LEGAL citizens you say? Is it unfair in the sense that LEGAL citizens may have heath insurance and ILLEGAL immigrants may not. creates an atmosphere of chaos? where do you live? in an action movie? creates economic issues for cities and states? Allow me to educate you on the subject, They're is LARGE amount, or the majority of ILLEGAL immigrants who get taxes decucted from their paychecks (yeah, illegal immigrants can be on a payroll). Unfortunately, they may never get a single cent of the federal tax back due to the fact that do not have a SS number. So technically, the state and the country gets to keep a lot of money cause they don't theres no tax rebate for illegal immigrants. creates financial hardship for citizens?! some illegal immigrants don't have kids, and they pay taxes. some of that tax money gets invested on public school. Illegal immigrants help and get absolutely NOTHING in return. Illegal immigrants drain the economy leading to bankruptcy? Did it ever cross your mind that maybe the economy is crap cause money keeps getting invested in the wrong places? or maybe cause the US continues to spend money they don't have? and maybe because the US is pumping millions of dollars on a unessesary "war"? Finally, legal students suffer? majority of the immigrant students, both legal and illegal come into this country with a higher level of education and discipline. (Text book information, look it up). Every year schools across the country shut down they're ESL programs do to budget cuts. and why the budget cuts you may ask. because the US continues to invest tax payers money on the wrong things. You should really consider doing some research and maybe education yourself before you contribute to an EDUCATED DEBATE. Ignorance can contribute to failure in this country, NOT illegal immigrants.

| Side: Yes
0 points

America is so overly burdened by illegal immigrants that our economy is going to fail because of it. Every person in America MUST be held to the laws governing entrance to our Country. I just moved to Los Angeles and at least 80% of all people living here are Latino illegal immigrants. I believe that America will fall because of all the Mexicans illegally entering America. They are taking our jobs and welfare benefits and no one seems to care.

| Side: Yes
1 point

Thats what there trying to do. thats why we need strict laws, even laws punishable by death. illegals are coming to our country trying to destroy what our fathers built. no room for feeling sorry for these people. We are at war and we need to start fighting back.

| Side: Yes
0 points

Yes deport them immediately and demand that they do jail time in their home country by threat of sanctions embargoes and termination of foreign aid and legal citizenship.

| Side: Yes
10 points

It's the tail wagging the dog.

Let me explain.

Right now U.S. unemployment is at 7%. And that's using Regan math, it's actually around 18%.

The main reason illegal immigrants come here is not freedom, or a love of America, but money (why they still wave their own flags when they protest instead of ours.)

And the reason they can make more money here, is we allow corporations to get away with employing illegal immigrants. Basically for exploiting them, as they are paid less for the same work.

For many illegal immigrants that's still a good deal, but it's a terrible deal for me, you, and the U.S. in general.

If you want to solve the immigration problem, the key is not going around kicking them out.

The key is actually holding companies responsible for employing them.

This is hard, because companies fund politicians campaigns for the most part,

So they end up paying popular lip-service, twisting the cause effect so everyone thinks its the immigrants' fault and not the companies, and meanwhile nothing is done to solve the problem.

If we want to solve the problem of hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, maybe even millions, who do burden our society both through paying less taxes (though they still pay sales tax) and enabling companies tendency to exploit the worker bees of the world,

we need to implement meaningful fines. And we also need to start treating blue collar criminals the same as thugs on the street. That means hard time in prison for breaking the law, even if you happen to be rich.

The guy who brings a truck with 5 illegal immigrants into the U.S. goes to jail. Why not the CEO employing 100 of them?

| Side: No
5 points

Wow I actually agree with what you said. I think it's the first time I have ever up voted you.

I agree that people who employ illegal immigrants should be held responsible. But the illegal should to. If an illegal immigrant is caught breaking the law they should get deported.

But i still dont get the tail wagging the dog thing (;

| Side: yes
3 points

Can't agree 100% with you considering it isn't the Corporations as much as the small businesses. Look at California agriculture for an example. That is where a huge influx of Mexican immigrants came to work. Holding corporations accountable is easier than small business because there are so many of them. But i do agree with holding businesses accountable. The truth of the matter is that costs more money than we are all willing to pay. Do you know how much it costs to hire one person to oversee accountability? How many businesses are they supposed to look over and who is making sure they are doing their jobs correctly without becoming corrupted?

| Side: yes
Bambi76(2) Disputed
2 points

I agree I think everyone in this situation should be punished, from the immigrant who comes here illegally, to the person who smuggles them, all the way up to the companies that hire them. Yeah were started as a country who took everyone, but we are in tough times right now. These illegals come in and a majority of them cannot afford to take care of themselves so, one of their first stops is welfare. Where they do give aid to these people, when they should turn them over to immigration as soon as they step foot in the building. These people KNOW the consequences for coming here illegally and they still do it, then cry racism when we try to enforce our laws! If we did this kind of thing that they are doing in other countries we would suffer worse fates then just deportation!! We would be punished by anything from jail time to death. Not all illegals are Spanish speakers, but they are usually the ones in fore front of this debate, but I feel every illegal should be punished, no matter their color, but for the most part Spanish speakers come in and expect us to conform to them, expect us to make Spanish the 2nd language. There are many jobs out there that are only available to people who speak both Spanish and English, and why is that because we have too many people here who don't learn the language, and greedy businesses who want their money, so they have to hire people who can speak to them, that means people like myself who were born and raised in small town middle America where they do not force you to learn Spanish are screwed!!! Do I think they should have made everyone learn Spanish from the start, yes, but does that give these people the right to come in and take over neighborhoods. http://www2.fiu.edu/~fcf/whiteflight.html, this article is about the immigration from Miami because of the neighborhoods being taken over by Cuban immigrants who are quoted in saying, "It's our city now.". Our economy would seriously improve if only we'd do something out the illegal immigrants, and the businesses that hire them, or take jobs out of the country!

| Side: yes
SoapyTurtle(22) Disputed
1 point

“These people KNOW the consequences for coming here illegally and they still do it, then cry racism when we try to enforce our laws!"

I don't think it is the illegal immigrant crying racism but the legal one who happens to be the same race as the illegal aliens. They have to deal with everyone treating them as if they are an illegal.

“for the most part Spanish speakers come in and expect us to conform to them, expect us to make Spanish the 2nd language. There are many jobs out there that are only available to people who speak both Spanish and English, and why is that because we have too many people here who don't learn the language.”

I live in California and I can tell you this is not how it is. Have you ever met an illegal alien? Or even a legal immigrant? I am very much against illegal immigration but leave it at that. Just because they break the law by crossing the border does not mean they live up to ever ridiculous stereotype you parents told your small town in middle America. Do you realize if you take out all of the illegal aliens these "issues" you have would still be around. California would still be a state reliant on more than one language. Who would be at fault for the fact that you can't speak Spanish then? It is easy to use illegal aliens as a scapegoat for your insecurities about foreigners but watch out because who knows... maybe one day one of these awful people will make it to your neck of the woods.

BTW: I am a white guy born and raised in America as well.

| Side: No
getalife Disputed
2 points

I agree with everything except where you say the key is not kicking them out. Hey, they are here ILLEGALLY. They are LAWBREAKERS for that. Many come here ILLEGALLY and commit crimes. They need to be kicked out. They had the choice to come here LEGALLY but chose not to. They need to learn there is a right way and a wrong way to do things here.

| Side: Yes
1 point

I can agree with that. You have some valid points. People who have a problem with them coming here because of poverty and the crap, if I may say, that goes on in their country need to put themselves in these immigrants shoes. The reason they come here, yes, some of the reasoning is because the money is better, its also their lack of government in their own country, poverty, as well as wars going on. We also offer better education, so they say, but how is that when there are employers out here hiring them on the spot, paying them under the table and basically saying we need to hand out more green cards to fill the gaps of employees who don't have the skills or qualifications to meet the requirements that some of these jobs require. Thats why a lot of illegal immigrants are getting these specific jobs and I don't think they care about the money, honestly, I think its merely just survival.

| Side: No
5 points

As I said in the other debate: Americans bitch and moan about how illegal aliens are taking their jobs but if we remove them from the country will they not start bitching and moaning about how damn tough these jobs that they are doing are? We should not throw them out of the country. We need to just tax them. Have another Ellis Island if we have to.

| Side: No

Exactly what I think. Up-vote.

| Side: No
iamdavidh(4850) Disputed
1 point

It's not crappy jobs that Americans don't want,

It's the crappy pay.

People have been hoodwinked.

The subject has been scandelously turned into a debate about the actual immigrants, and thus a human rights debate.

But the underlying problem is companies' desire to exploit cheap labor. Raise the minumum wage, demand companies pay fair wages, and the millions of unemployed citizens of this country will happily fill the positions.

If there are not jobs to be filled, the immigration problem will solve itself.

No kicking necessary.

And another ellis island wouldn't work. The U.S. Mexican border is too big and too open.

The only thing that could possibly work is a giant, military manned, wall.

But again, that would not even be necessary.

| Side: yes
DaWolfman(3288) Disputed
3 points

if it has a crappy pay then most people will not want to do it unless they are desperate. So you are telling me that nothing makes an American happier is working on farms and working for carpenters, landscapers, and picking up trash is just what Americans day dream about in school.

HELL NO. What you are suggesting is that instead of a low pay for jobs people do not want give the people that do those jobs an increase in pay. So maybe more Americans will work there? In either case a less experienced alien will just offer to do the work for less pay. Also why wouldn't they just keep the illegals they already have? Why hire an American that has mowed peoples front lawns but never landscaped before?

All of what you said is not really answering the question. What I said gave the reason for why illegals should stay in the US what you are talking about is the pay for illegals not why they should be kicked out, and it is not going to solve itself since Americans all refuse to work for 5 $ an hour when any illegal would take 5 without blinking.

| Side: No
4 points

We shouldn't kick illegal people out of the country, because many people that come form other countries work hard to maintain our economy well. so why kick them out.

| Side: No
lilli(2) Disputed
3 points

Because they take our jobs, get benifits that americans can not even get because the are a minorty. I think they should all go home and we can get our jobs back. It is America and we are not working but they are!!! What is wrong with this. They do not help the economy, They own it. We are the ones that suffer. No work, Trouble feeding our families and ect... No health insurance (but they get it free because they are a minorty.) Yea, lets keep them here so we can get more people homeless and lose there jobs.

| Side: yes
Cherokeegirl(1) Disputed
1 point

When you "white" people forced your way into OUR land and you FORCED us to conform to YOUR ways. Latinos are indigenous to this side of the world. The Guatecos (declared Mexican or Hispanic putting them in a white category so white men couldn't enslave them as they did other indigenous people) Many of them still speak their native tongue. White men forced Spanish on them as white man forced french and English on the Canadian indigenous people, and how the white man forced english on us all the way into the 1980's. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/08/25/3834/

We tried to live in peace and harmony with the white man but the white man got greedy and murderous. The white man refused to obey our laws. If these people who are indigenous to our contenant cannot be allowed to stay why should you? Why don't you go back to the country of your ancestors and start your "American" revolution there?

http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/native-american-genocide/

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/

If anybody has a right to say who stays and who goes it would be all of our Natives to decide that. It would never happen, but the just right is ours. I understand that our American schools teach us to be ignorant and try to hide our dirty history like a cat hides their dirty deeds. This is a start to your education. I hope you will be enlightened. :)

http://www.garyjennings.com/

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

Yes, illegal (undocumented/unauthorized) immigrants generally pay taxes the same way you and I pay them, but without access to most of the benefits that normally come with being a taxpayer.

How they pay

Income Tax

Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake or fraudulent social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. A growing number of undocumented immigrants now file their income taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). ITINs are issued by the IRS for filing purposes only and do not provide permission to work. According to the most recent estimates, at least 3 million unauthorized immigrants filed income taxes using ITINs in 2009. (NOTE: the IRS does not report undocumented immigrants to the Department of Homeland Security.)

Sales Tax

Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants—legal and illegal—all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase.

Property Tax

Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants—legal and illegal—pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent (clearly, landlords factor property taxes into rent).

Possible overpayment

Illegal immigrants pay into Social Security via automatic payroll deductions, but they can never claim Social Security benefits because they are here illegally and because their Social Security numbers are fake. In 2005, it was estimated that undocumented immigrants paid about $7 billion per year in Social Security taxes that they will never be able to reclaim.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 78 percent of American households that earned less than $33,000 owed no federal income taxes in 2011. Many low-income taxpayers only paid marginal amounts if they did owe. Because of their low income levels, most illegal immigrants would naturally fall into either of these categories. Many illegal immigrants don’t file, however, because they fear deportation. And if they don’t file, they are never refunded money that was automatically withheld from their paychecks. When a refund is owed but not paid out, that’s free money for the government.

Possible underpayment

Undocumented immigrants—and immigrants in general—are more likely to work in the informal or cash economy because these types of jobs are often the least desirable, most unstable and inconsistent, and lowest paid. Informal and cash jobs create big incentives not to claim cash income—undocumented immigrants and citizens alike find these incentives compelling. Most waiters and bartenders, for example, don’t claim and pay taxes on cash tips (or if they do, it’s usually just a small percentage). The high school student down the street usually doesn’t pay taxes on money earned from mowing your lawn or shoveling your driveway. Legally speaking, they’re supposed to claim this income.

Something important to keep in mind: the incomes of migrants working in the informal economy are generally so low—less than $13,000 per year, according a recent UCLA study—that most would ultimately be exempt from paying income taxes or have extremely low tax liability even if they did file and claim cash income.

Public Benefits

As taxpayers, most of us are eligible for an array of social safety nets like food stamps and unemployment insurance. The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act barred illegal immigrants from receiving any welfare benefits except in medical emergencies. It also barred legal immigrants from eligibility for welfare benefits during their first 5 years in the country. So, no, illegal immigrants do not exploit welfare services quite simply because they are not eligible to exploit them.

In Plyler v. Doe (1982), the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional to deny undocumented immigrants K-12 public education. Denying education would not only be crippling to the immigrants themselves, but would have negative implications for the rest of society. But regardless, by directly or indirectly paying property taxes, undocumented immigrants pay into public education. In general, immigrants benefit from police service, firefighters, national defense, parks, and other public goods. But again, the taxes they pay contribute to paying for these services.

Fourteen states offer free prenatal and postnatal care to pregnant women who are the country illegally. Some state legislators justify these benefits as long-term cost-saving measures, others as being consistent with pro-life beliefs. Low-income women with children under 5 are also eligible for WIC benefits regardless of immigration status.

American-born children of undocumented immigrants are eligible for benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. But it’s important to remember that the recipients of these benefits are children that the 14th Amendment has deemed full citizens of United States.

Tax credits

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration estimates that unauthorized immigrants received $4.2 billion in child tax credits in 2010. There is currently no legal mechanism that bans unauthorized immigrants from child tax credit refunds (although they are banned from refunds related to the Earned Income tax credit). Read more on this issue at FactCheck.org and the Washington Post.

Are illegal immigrants a drain on the system?

There’s no simple answer to this question because no one knows exactly how many people live and work in the U.S. illegally, exactly where they live, how much they pay in taxes, or the extent to which they benefit from public goods. This point underscores the difficultly of studying illegal immigration: the people involved do not want to be detected.

Any so-called “hard numbers” you see on the costs or contributions of illegal immigrants are often little more than guesses based on imperfect estimates of the size and distribution of the illegal population. This is the case with two widely-cited (and highly unscientific) “studies” on this topic: one from the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy and one from the Center for Immigration Studies.

It’s important to understand how certain organizations make their guesstimates. Guesstimates published by anti-immigration organizations like the Center for Immigration Studies, for example, include public services rightfully used by the American-born children in calculating the costs of illegal immigration.

At the federal level, some researchers believe that undocumented immigrants pay in more than they take out due to large and automatic contributions to Social Security that can never be claimed.

Figures vary greatly at the state and local levels. Areas with higher concentrations of undocumented immigrants, for example, spend more educating and providing emergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants than areas with lower concentrations. But this is not because undocumented immigrants are out to evade taxes and milk the system —as we learned above, most pay sales, property, and income taxes automatically and are ineligible for the vast majority of social services. Rather, the reason undocumented immigrants may take out more than they contribute has mostly to do with their status as low wage earners. Even if they use the same amount of public services as wealthier households, low-income households (be they made up of citizens or immigrants) are generally a net drain on public finances because our progressive system requires them to pay less income tax and by virtue of having less purchasing power, they pay less sales and property tax.

| Side: Yes
grenzulli27(2) Disputed
2 points

Well then they should come here legally like everyone else that has come into this country!

| Side: yes
3 points

This country is becoming a cesspool of garbage, we don't want ourselves to look like other 3rd world countries!

| Side: No
2 points

"America has constantly drawn strength and spirit from wave after wave of immigrants...They have proved to be the most restless, the most adventurous, the most innovative, the most industrious of people."

- Bill Clinton

| Side: No
2 points

THe reason why immigrants are in usa in the first place is so that they can have opportunity that they couldn't have in their own country. We give them opportunity instead of penalty :P

| Side: No
2 points

we should not or at least not out at the rate we doing it because then legal ones get kicked out to like my dad.

| Side: No
2 points

not in every case

| Side: yes

I think that every illegal immigrant should have a background check run on them, and if they've got a relatively clean record, let them in.

| Side: It depends
2 points

Let's Look at the inanity of this concept. If we were to kick all illegal immigrants out of the USA; only the Native Americans would be left. The Majority are immigrants from Europe, Asia, etc... (the old world), who came and settled here without permission from the Native American tribes. Grant it, this phrase isn't 100% true, but close enough to, that that's irrelevant.

Besides, I don't usually hear about Illegal Immigrants who are unwilling to work.

| Side: No
2 points

if someone illegally travells to the USA, it genrally means that they have had a bad time in wherever they have come from, and should be allowed to seek a better life. if you reverse the situation and put yourself in their position - being deneyed access to live in USA after waiting years to recieve a pass - it would be quite likely that you decide to illegaly go there yourself. And for people who have done, it is unfair to remove illegal immigrants from their friends and family and jobs in the states, and make them return to their orriginal country. They just want a better life, and yes, it probably should be carried out correctly and legally, but people who can't should not be deneyed access.

| Side: No
1 point

This is what they are fleeing from.

This first one is a reenactment of real scenarios of how thousands if not millions are, have been, and will be tortured and killed in Mexico alone not including more southern countries where this happens as well. http://youtu.be/873zJRimCVE

Welcome to Mexico: http://youtu.be/tZFVI6AMFBM

Mexican police have found five decomposing heads left in a sack outside a primary school in Acapulco.

Handwritten messages were also found, reportedly threatening the state governor as well as local drug lords.

It was not clear if the discovery of the heads and five decapitated bodies elsewhere in the city was linked to extortion threats against teachers.

Dozens of schools have been closed since last month after teachers went on strike over security concernshttp://youtu.be/ZZyVnbdX7ok

http://youtu.be/51K-L1zYzsE

http://youtu.be/yjxekuMdLfQ

http://youtu.be/J2RxKbaa7Ww territory shoot out.

http://youtu.be/2ddDNdOkdUU

This is what happens when you go to the authorities for help.

http://youtu.be/fWwnTqjGu3o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature;=endscreen&v;=0qAt2yegHaU

A woman and her 1.5 yr old child are among these poor people who were kidnapped by Mexican mafia. The criminals put up armed roadblocks on highways so they could take the victims and their property. Usually they stop those with nice looking vehicles. (especially nice trucks and suv's)

http://youtu.be/PocgXo6YlPA

http://youtu.be/VSGXUxBCglc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature;=endscreen&v;=eJDwZq2co5U

When you go to work in Mexico you could have shots fired at you and grenades thrown at you. This footage is very common. It's EVERYDAY occurence. http://youtu.be/2QmnM457Whg

http://youtu.be/gP3OvaT1yHE child shot in the neck while riding the bus.

The groom and 2 others were kidnapped at wedding. The grooms brother was shot and killed. The police locked the gates so nobody could leave the church. It is an extortion case.

http://youtu.be/GYFW84CefWM

This man was murderer as well. He was killed by rivals. http://youtu.be/DSnAJokL4mo

http://youtu.be/MFasg6qI1TY

| Side: No
2 points

Your forgetting the fact that when anyone is born the IMF allocates them an amount of money that they are worth. When the government let's in 100,000 immigrants they then get the value of those 100,000 immigrants and can borrow more money and increase the value of their country.

If you then proceded to remove all the immigrants in your country the amount your country's population is worth decreases dramatically.

| Side: No
2 points

Not so fast, in my opinion they are brave people. They leave their homes, sometimes for many years for the opportunity to earn money for their families who have limited means. Because they don't share the same civil rights as a citizen, they are at constant risk of exploitation. Immigrants work many, many hours a day for their wages. We make the assumption that they do not want to pay taxes and that they want to steal from us. How do we know this? Perhaps instead of exporting illegals, might we try handing out tax i.d. numbers? I think this country should look for "Plan C" when attempting to solve the illegal immigrant issue. There is a mean spirited undercurrent creeping into the U.S. American psyche and it is dividing us from a potential good solution.

| Side: No
1 point

Guess what. The U.S. does hand out tax id numbers for illegals. They do pay there taxes. Here's the info you need for your argument. By the way you thought of a very intelligent solution to part of the problem. The only thing is, is that partial solution has been here for decades. :)

http://roygermano.com/2011/02/28/do-illegal-immigrants-pay-taxes/

Yes, illegal (undocumented/unauthorized) immigrants generally pay taxes the same way you and I pay them, but without access to most of the benefits that normally come with being a taxpayer.

How they pay

Income Tax

Every time you receive a paycheck, you probably notice that something is missing. That’s because your employer automatically withholds federal, state, and local income taxes and Social Security and Medicare taxes. Immigrants also have money automatically deducted directly from their paychecks —even those who are here illegally. But how? Well, the Social Security Administration estimates that 75% of undocumented immigrants are actually on formal payrolls and are paid by check just like anyone else. They get on the payroll by using fake or fraudulent social security numbers or social security numbers of the deceased, which are easily available from counterfeiters for a couple hundred dollars. A growing number of undocumented immigrants now file their income taxes using Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers (ITINs). ITINs are issued by the IRS for filing purposes only and do not provide permission to work. According to the most recent estimates, at least 3 million unauthorized immigrants filed income taxes using ITINs in 2009. (NOTE: the IRS does not report undocumented immigrants to the Department of Homeland Security.)

Sales Tax

Every time you buy something, you pay sales tax. That money goes to state and local governments. Staying at a hotel or renting a car, you pay state and local taxes. If you fill up your gas tank, you automatically pay state and federal gasoline taxes. If you buy liquor or cigarettes, you automatically pay various local, state, and federal excise taxes. Immigrants—legal and illegal—all buy things, and thus pay these taxes as part of their purchase.

Property Tax

Local governments also collect property taxes, which are a percentage of the value of one’s home and fund services like schools, certain medical services, and police and fire stations. Immigrants—legal and illegal—pay these taxes directly if they own a home, or indirectly if they rent (clearly, landlords factor property taxes into rent).

Possible overpayment

Illegal immigrants pay into Social Security via automatic payroll deductions, but they can never claim Social Security benefits because they are here illegally and because their Social Security numbers are fake. In 2005, it was estimated that undocumented immigrants paid about $7 billion per year in Social Security taxes that they will never be able to reclaim.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 78 percent of American households that earned less than $33,000 owed no federal income taxes in 2011. Many low-income taxpayers only paid marginal amounts if they did owe. Because of their low income levels, most illegal immigrants would naturally fall into either of these categories. Many illegal immigrants don’t file, however, because they fear deportation. And if they don’t file, they are never refunded money that was automatically withheld from their paychecks. When a refund is owed but not paid out, that’s free money for the government.

Possible underpayment

Undocumented immigrants—and immigrants in general—are more likely to work in the informal or cash economy because these types of jobs are often the least desirable, most unstable and inconsistent, and lowest paid. Informal and cash jobs create big incentives not to claim cash income—undocumented immigrants and citizens alike find these incentives compelling. Most waiters and bartenders, for example, don’t claim and pay taxes on cash tips (or if they do, it’s usually just a small percentage). The high school student down the street usually doesn’t pay taxes on money earned from mowing your lawn or shoveling your driveway. Legally speaking, they’re supposed to claim this income.

Something important to keep in mind: the incomes of migrants working in the informal economy are generally so low—less than $13,000 per year, according a recent UCLA study—that most would ultimately be exempt from paying income taxes or have extremely low tax liability even if they did file and claim cash income.

Public Benefits

As taxpayers, most of us are eligible for an array of social safety nets like food stamps and unemployment insurance. The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act barred illegal immigrants from receiving any welfare benefits except in medical emergencies. It also barred legal immigrants from eligibility for welfare benefits during their first 5 years in the country. So, no, illegal immigrants do not exploit welfare services quite simply because they are not eligible to exploit them.

In Plyler v. Doe (1982), the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional to deny undocumented immigrants K-12 public education. Denying education would not only be crippling to the immigrants themselves, but would have negative implications for the rest of society. But regardless, by directly or indirectly paying property taxes, undocumented immigrants pay into public education. In general, immigrants benefit from police service, firefighters, national defense, parks, and other public goods. But again, the taxes they pay contribute to paying for these services.

Fourteen states offer free prenatal and postnatal care to pregnant women who are the country illegally. Some state legislators justify these benefits as long-term cost-saving measures, others as being consistent with pro-life beliefs. Low-income women with children under 5 are also eligible for WIC benefits regardless of immigration status.

American-born children of undocumented immigrants are eligible for benefits like Medicaid and food stamps. But it’s important to remember that the recipients of these benefits are children that the 14th Amendment has deemed full citizens of United States.

Tax credits

The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration estimates that unauthorized immigrants received $4.2 billion in child tax credits in 2010. There is currently no legal mechanism that bans unauthorized immigrants from child tax credit refunds (although they are banned from refunds related to the Earned Income tax credit). Read more on this issue at FactCheck.org and the Washington Post.

Are illegal immigrants a drain on the system?

There’s no simple answer to this question because no one knows exactly how many people live and work in the U.S. illegally, exactly where they live, how much they pay in taxes, or the extent to which they benefit from public goods. This point underscores the difficultly of studying illegal immigration: the people involved do not want to be detected.

Any so-called “hard numbers” you see on the costs or contributions of illegal immigrants are often little more than guesses based on imperfect estimates of the size and distribution of the illegal population. This is the case with two widely-cited (and highly unscientific) “studies” on this topic: one from the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy and one from the Center for Immigration Studies.

It’s important to understand how certain organizations make their guesstimates. Guesstimates published by anti-immigration organizations like the Center for Immigration Studies, for example, include public services rightfully used by the American-born children in calculating the costs of illegal immigration.

At the federal level, some researchers believe that undocumented immigrants pay in more than they take out due to large and automatic contributions to Social Security that can never be claimed.

Figures vary greatly at the state and local levels. Areas with higher concentrations of undocumented immigrants, for example, spend more educating and providing emergency healthcare to undocumented immigrants than areas with lower concentrations. But this is not because undocumented immigrants are out to evade taxes and milk the system —as we learned above, most pay sales, property, and income taxes automatically and are ineligible for the vast majority of social services. Rather, the reason undocumented immigrants may take out more than they contribute has mostly to do with their status as low wage earners. Even if they use the same amount of public services as wealthier households, low-income households (be they made up of citizens or immigrants) are generally a net drain on public finances because our progressive system requires them to pay less income tax and by virtue of having less purchasing power, they pay less sales and property tax.

| Side: No
Cuaroc(5369) Disputed
1 point

When you "white" people forced your way into OUR land

You should of fought back better

| Side: Yes
2 points

No. why do people even want immigrants out of the USA? They do jobs American's wouldn't even bother on doing. They work their ass off working for their family, and work to give them the best they can. You think is easy living somewhere were you can't see your mom because she lives in another continent; trying to make a bit of money to help her out because she is really old and can't support herself like young people can?! In Mexico things aren't like in USA, dangerous people are killing innocent people, because of drugs! Would you want to live in a place where you can't even go outside or to a party because your afraid you might get shot or kidnapped? No! i don't think so. You might want to run away or move to a safe place, well that's what we thought went we came to the USA. It's like a dream! Now, just because "some Hispanics" do things like kill or just be lazying around doesn't mean we are all the same, because believe me we aren't ! If i meet a mean, arrogant American and starts insulting me about how am Hispanic doesn't mean i am going to think "all American's are the same." i might think about it but never actually make it official. Mexicans are hard working people and work to give their family the best they can!

| Side: No
2 points

Ignorant Americans want to kick out immigrants and they think a dumb ass fence is gonna solve the countrys problems they don't realize there own greedy republicans are the ones ruining our country I know most Americans that wouldn't do the jobs that immigrants do they just want to blame there problems on someone else instead on the American government that them selves are voting on there is alote of immigrants that are illegal and pay taxes without a social security and the federal government knows this and does not care

| Side: No
2 points

No, America was founded by immigrants. The natives aka american indian, back to the mongoloids and so on, once rules these lands we're on now, and the most time, parts of europe came to settled down, and so American's are essentially a mixture of mongoloid, native america, mexican, Spaniard, and english. I see no other evidence to proving this wrong. The is how our lands have been conquered and conquered again by different races and people.

Technically speaking, if you think of where the hominoid species originally dominate in the african lands, asia and europe and migrated as such through the lands. Continental drift is fact and evidence states that our species roamed about through the earth from a general central central location then ran off to different parts of the world, and here we are now, all countries and divided.

So no, why should we kick immigrants out? Out main businesses are done with other countries, enter china, russia, to name a few. Shit, even mexico builds products for us. I see now problem with immigrants working, providing to their families while helping our families with work, they should be allowed to be become citizens of this great nation and have opportunity here just like Americans.

| Side: No

I am going to say no. This country was based upon immigrants and that's what gives us our strength, diversity. Now with that said, there are many laws in place that allow illegal immigrants to join our schools, pay taxes, etc. I say keep them if they're smart enough to survive here. Now should they receive public funds...I'm not sure. You have to take the good with the bad, as some will say. Let me also state that not all immigrants are coming from the US/Mexican border.

| Side: No
3 points

We still have plenty diversity throughout our country, why should they be able to break the law to add "diversity"

| Side: yes
1 point

My point is that if you don't enforce your own laws you should allow amnesty to those that have already come in when you did not enforce your law. This country was founded by illegal immigrants.

| Side: No
1 point

I agree with you. Let them stay here if they can surrive. They dont have to give them goverment funds. If they are not doing nothing wrong leave them alone. Most of them have families and work very hard to support their families

| Side: No
1 point

they fill min. wage jobs and sell cheaper products. At the same time they buy products from the U.S.

What should change is the welfare laws.

| Side: No
Bambi76(2) Disputed
1 point

Illegals taking one minimum wage job, means one less min wage job for a legal citizen, and in this country we need all the jobs we can get!!!

| Side: yes
1 point

If the illegal immigrants were to sign up to pay taxes they would be kicked out.

We could just give them a residence and get some money from them.

| Side: No
mekody(12) Disputed
4 points

They can go and try to get a green card and become a resident other wise they should be kicked out of the U.S.

| Side: yes
1 point

No one should kick anyone. That is just plain mean. How would you like it if I kicked you?

| Side: No
ShiroSama97(73) Disputed
2 points

well confused, if i were an illegal mexican who has their OWN PROBLEMS and OWN COUNTRY, they take our jobs, earn special benefits, crowd our prisons, suck money out of our government from deportation, and cause a crapload of problems (drugs, murder, gangs, etc) while america sits their and they have their own problems and dont have the time or money to mess with border issues, then yes. i would want you to kick me out. Its liberals like you who make this once great country an awful, mexican tainted, poor liberal society. We should kick you out too.

| Side: yes
Cherokeegirl(1) Disputed
1 point

When you "white" people forced your way into OUR land and you FORCED us to conform to YOUR ways. Latinos are indigenous to this side of the world. The Guatecos (declared Mexican or Hispanic putting them in a white category so white men couldn't enslave them as they did other indigenous people) Many of them still speak their native tongue. White men forced Spanish on them as white man forced french and English on the Canadian indigenous people, and how the white man forced english on us all the way into the 1980's. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

http://www.nikolasschiller.com/blog/index.php/archives/2009/08/25/3834/

We tried to live in peace and harmony with the white man but the white man got greedy and murderous. The white man refused to obey our laws. If these people who are indigenous to our contenant cannot be allowed to stay why should you? Why don't you go back to the country of your ancestors and start your "American" revolution there?

http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/genocide/native-american-genocide/

http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/

If anybody has a right to say who stays and who goes it would be all of our Natives to decide that. It would never happen, but the just right is ours. I understand that our American schools teach us to be ignorant and try to hide our dirty history like a cat hides their dirty deeds. This is a start to your education. I hope you will be enlightened. :)

http://www.garyjennings.com/

| Side: No
1 point

illegal immigrants include the white europeans who invaded the native americans land and massacred them and took it by force. if you want to send hispanics back to latin america, they you should also definitely send the white europeans back to europe and give hte land back to the right ful oowners, the native americas (red indian).

| Side: No
Bren1(3) Disputed
2 points

Don't worry, because at the rate we are going the "white europeans" will no longer exist on this planet due to the no/low childbirth rates.

| Side: Yes

A nice, gentle push back over the border should suffice ;)

| Side: No
1 point

How do prevent illegal cockroaches from entering you house? Clean up after your self ! That's right..Don't feed the birds.

| Side: No
1 point

I agree and stop promoting and putting the carrot in front of the horses mouth ie get rid of ANCHOR BABY LAW!!!

| Side: No
Cherokeegirl(1) Disputed
1 point

Then start with you as the first "anchor baby" to deport yourself. We Natives never gave you permission to enter. Where are your ancestors papers?

| Side: Yes

Just what are the benefits of living in the USA? Is it the ability to acquire debt or is it the American dream which is acquiring debt and dying.

| Side: No
1 point

Their social service is one little box of macaroni and crackers given once a month. I lived there for 4 yrs dodging grenades and bullets. Yeah I'm EDUCATED and EXPERIENCED on the subject of Mexico and ILLEGALS. They cannot use our social services! Buit it's bull that I as a NATIVE AMERICAN decendent of Crazy horse, my grandfather was a judge, I have an ancestor that fought in EVERY SINGLE U.S. WAR, and My other grandfather earned a purple heart in WW2 and I have to go to Mexico to dodge grenades and bullets and be extorted by mafia and police officers because I'm American! I have to live in fear that we will be taken at any given moment to be tortured, dipped in a barrel of acid, or be beheaded because my husband at age 15 was a Mexican soldier, and the mafia doesn't look kindly on that nor are they merciful. But I am not allowed to have MY HUSBAND of 8 yrs and the FATHER OF MY # CHILDREN live here in the U.S. because he fled from Mexico to get here to save his own life! This is what most "illegals" face. This country murders my ancestors, My great great grandmother escapes the trail of tears, and my children have to chose between being fatherless or dodging grenades and bullets... !!!! Colombus was the first Illegal Alien! I guess I'll just do what he did stick a flag in the ground make up whatever name I want and claim this land for myself and for whoever I want to benefit. haha look at the insanity of what we call legal! If I did that I would be insane to think that is legit! If we can have Colombus day in this country then we can make it possible for the brothers of us natives to be here.

| Side: No
1 point

Their social service is one little box of macaroni and crackers given once a month. I lived there for 4 yrs dodging grenades and bullets. Yeah I'm EDUCATED and EXPERIENCED on the subject of Mexico and ILLEGALS. They cannot use our social services! Buit it's bull that I as a NATIVE AMERICAN decendent of Crazy horse, my grandfather was a judge, I have an ancestor that fought in EVERY SINGLE U.S. WAR, and My other grandfather earned a purple heart in WW2 and I have to go to Mexico to dodge grenades and bullets and be extorted by mafia and police officers because I'm American! I have to live in fear that we will be taken at any given moment to be tortured, dipped in a barrel of acid, or be beheaded because my husband at age 15 was a Mexican soldier, and the mafia doesn't look kindly on that nor are they merciful. But I am not allowed to have MY HUSBAND of 8 yrs and the FATHER OF MY # CHILDREN live here in the U.S. because he fled from Mexico to get here to save his own life! This is what most "illegals" face. This country murders my ancestors, My great great grandmother escapes the trail of tears, and my children have to chose between being fatherless or dodging grenades and bullets... !!!! Colombus was the first Illegal Alien! I guess I'll just do what he did stick a flag in the ground make up whatever name I want and claim this land for myself and for whoever I want to benefit. haha look at the insanity of what we call legal! If I did that I would be insane to think that is legit! If we can have Colombus day in this country then we can make it possible for the brothers of us natives to be here. Oh by the way, my Illegal husband EMPLOYS over 20 U.S. citizens who couldn't find a job else where and my husband pays them BETTER than the other employers in this area for the same job.

| Side: No
0 points

There is one simple reason that ALL illegal immigrants should immediately be forced out of this Country, they have broken the LAW! They have broken Federal immigration laws, and they are therefore CRIMINALS!! They are FELONS, each and every single one of them period!

They cut in line in front of hundreds of thousands of persons that are waiting to enter the US legally. We should find every person employing illegals-from factory workers, to gardeners, nanny's etc., and fine them. A jail term for larger employers MUST be at least one year in jail-NO EXCEPTIONS! Oh, as far as picking produce is concerned, there are plenty of machines available that can pick fruits and vegetables. The farmers simply find it more cost effective to hire illegals-no muss, no fuss. It costs more money to buy machines, and by the way-there are plenty of out of work Americans that will pick produce today-thank you Barak Obama and democrats! Can anyone say phoney STIMULIS and Hyper-Inflation. Every dumb*ss that voted for the Bamster is going to live to regret it! Ha, Ha, Ha. So you guys that are unemployed because your fearless leader...how's that hope and change working out for you?

| Side: No
0 points

first they are breaking the law, second we don't who is entering the country, they could be killers, child abusers x-cones or criminals of some kind. by letting them stay, its a statement that you can commit a crime and get a way with it in america, and yet you can be rewarded by getting citizenships and all kinds of benefits. we know that its not going to stop. we know that they are going to take advantage of our weak immigration laws and bring there Mom's and, Dad's, brothers and as many as they can to the US. they will all collect some kind of benefits. especially the alders, who never worked a day in there life and paid taxes they will come here and collect SSI benefits, Medicare and Medicaid. so please can anyone tell me how is that fare, they are robbing our kids social security money. how is that right??????!!!

| Side: No
-2 points
4 points

But think about how much money the country could make if they stayed and we taxed them! Trillions!

| Side: No

Hmmm, not a bad idea. Now we have to get them better jobs so that we can tax them at a higher rate. What do you do for a living? Maybe we can start with your job ;)

| Side: No


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