Should we lower, raise, or destroy the minimum wage?
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I believe that the Minimum Wage should be abolished completely. It is immoral, and kills jobs. It's immoral in the sense that the government has absolutely no right to tell me what amount of money I have to make per hour. If I want to work for $5 an hour, why can't I? The idea that if I accept 1 penny less than the minimum wage, the government will send people into my employers home who have guns and take him away, all in front of his kids? That's disgusting. How much I get paid is between me and what I negotion Also, when you force employers to pay their workers more, they stop hiring workers, fire workers, or cut hours. Let's say you have 3 workers at a shop, and you pay all of them 5 dollars an hour. The government says "No, you have to pay them $10 an hour, or you'll be thrown in jail." So, you now have to fire one, and cut ones hours to even it out again. Then, your business goes under because you don't have enough workers. The idea that the minimum wage somehow creates jobs, is ludicrous. 1
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Then why didn't jobs tank for the many decades every time the minimum wage was regularly being raised to keep up with inflation? And what do you say to the people who work 40 hours a week and can't afford to feed their families? The idea that the minimum wage somehow creates jobs, is ludicrous. That's not the point of the minimum wage. 0
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Abolished completely? You realise employers would start paying people 99p an hour, right? The minimum wage is there is stop the exploitation of workers. If you want to abolish the minimum wage, you'd also have to greatly lower the price of food, taxes, rent, etc. so that people can actually survive - and that'd just crash the economy. It's more immoral to be paying hard workers a minuscule amount of money. How is treating the workforce fairly immoral in any way? In England we have a living wage which essentially means a minimum wage adjusted to the amount of money people need to live. Currently it's £6.70 an hour, which is about $8, and no one's losing jobs or having their business go under because of it. That's absolutely ludicrous. Repost your argument when your boss starts paying you 50 cents an hour, and see if you still agree with abolishing the minimum wage. 1
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"You realise employers would start paying people 99p an hour, right?" oh really, surgeons will start making 99p an hour ? or are you just talking about people who contribute nothing ?if someones work is only worth 99p an hour, that is what they should be paid . "If you want to abolish the minimum wage, you'd also have to greatly lower the price of food, taxes, rent, etc. so that people can actually survive" or people could simply contribute more and earn their living . "Repost your argument when your boss starts paying you 50 cents an hour" maybe he intends to earn more than that .if the market rate for your work is 50 cents an hour then you arent trying very hard . "You realise employers would start paying people 99p an hour, right?" No, they wouldn't, because who would want to work for that? That would happen only in the alternate reality in which there is one single shop that you can work at. In reality, there's multiple businesses competing for workers. If a business offers 99 cents an hour, another business will try to steal its workers by offering $2 an hour. This will continue until the businesses are paying the max amount they can for that specific occupation. "It's more immoral to be paying hard workers a minuscule amount of money. How is treating the workforce fairly immoral in any way?" Yes, you should pay your workers what they are worth. If they are worth $12 an hour, you should pay them that. If they're worth $2 an hour, you should pay them that. People are not owed anything. You do not deserve a set amount of money per hour. Want to make a living wage? Earn your employer a profit so he can pay you more. This wraps back around to the idea that there's only one employer who is keeping people poor because he hates the lower class. It's illogical to believe that without a minimum wage, all employers are going to suddenly start paying their workers 12 cents an hour. "In England we have a living wage which essentially means a minimum wage adjusted to the amount of money people need to live. Currently it's £6.70 an hour, which is about $8, and no one's losing jobs or having their business go under because of it. That's absolutely ludicrous." So you're saying that after employers were forced at gun point to pay people more, nobody got their hours cut at all? Nowhere? How is it ludicrous to believe that when you have to pay people more for labor, you decrease labor? That's logic. "Repost your argument when your boss starts paying you 50 cents an hour, and see if you still agree with abolishing the minimum wage." He won't, I'd quit and he needs me. I get paid above minimum wage as of now, why doesn't he just put me down to minimum wage right now? There should not be a federal minimum wage. It should be left up to the states to have one or not. This fallacy that doing away with the minimum wage will result in employers paying employees five dollar an hour or less is farcical. If that were true, then ALL wages would eventually fall, resulting in deflation and an inevitable recession. Deflation is a serious problem. Japan had it for 20 years. Think about it. If all wages fell, how the hell is a business going to charge the same prices as they currently do if everyone has less money. That 30,000 dollar car will now be much lower otherwise nobody would be able to afford it. Same is true with raising the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour. Everyone's wages will go up, resulting in inflation. The people who make 15 dollars an hour still will not be able to afford a house because that 100,000 house now will be worth double or so, resulting in a demand to raise the wage to 25 dollars an hour because they will still be poor at 15 dollars an hour. The federal government needs to stay out of the minimum wage business. Minimum wage is just a ruse use by unions as they get a pay increase when minimum wage is raised. Every place around where I live pays more than minimum wage for new hires. Very few people actually get a raise when minimum wage is increased.....very few except for those in unions. All businesses have a host of overheads to meet before they make any profit whatsoever. These include fixed overheads such as, rent, rates, light, heat, power, insurance, telephone/broadband, post packaging & stationery and variable overheads like, repair and maintenance to plant, machinery, transport and so forth. In a global economy we're not just competing with our domestic rivals, but with worldwide companies whose governments permit the use of child labour and virtual adult slave labour. Most Asian manufacturing concerns are not burdened with such expenses as,health & safety regulations, equal opportunity legislation, anti- racist and religious discrimination laws. Once they're forced to pay wages above the market rate,.( the market rate being the average universal rate of wages for a given industry) of the industry in which they're competing they are immediately placed at an unfair advantage. As the bleeding heart bullshitters spew out their naive, sanctimonious drivel about raising the minimum they fail to notice that the country is being flooded with cheap foreign goods and produce forcing many, too many, indigenous industries into bankruptcy with the ensuing loss of 10s of 1000s of jobs. All over the country workers are being made redundant as their employers cannot compete with cheap imports. The imposition of a minimum wage is no more than a piece politically motivated vote catching dupery which does more harm than good. It's a form of communism as it assumes that everyone is of equal worth. As an employer of over 130 full time members of staff for 26 years I can, without any fear of contradiction, assert that this juvenile assumption is dangerously incorrect. Remove the incentive for rewarding merit by paying a uniform wage, minimum or otherwise, and productivity will pan out at the lowest common denominator. The minimum wage is one of the major factors contributing to unemployment in this country introduced by politicians who are divorced from reality and those who haven't the remotest idea about the harsh actualities of trying to run a business shouting their support for this draconian law. Employers are not stupid and will wish to have a motivated and happy workforce and any improper treatment including paying below the 'market rate' will have the opposite effect. It's a question of balance. There is no doubt from history that wealthy business owners abused cheap labor to the point that there simply had to be a minimum wage as well as other protections such as OSHA rules. And it is also true from recent history that the minimum wage very very seldom gets a bump even though the cost of living has gone up dramatically. But I agree with others that a giant leap frog to something like $15 an hour isn't realistic and would almost certainly kill jobs and some types of employers. It takes a balance. I'd say it should go up modestly. I also don't agree with those who say this is just a state matter and there shouldn't be a federal minimum. There are some really really bad states which would throw their poor to the wolves if they could. Here is the problem with a national minimum wage. A state like California has a much higher cost of living than say Alabama. Then what you have is either one state being much lower than it should or one state having to high of a minimum wage. We live in a country where you are free to live anywhere you choose. Pack up and move to a state that best fits your needs. And please don't tell me people do not have the financial means to move. Illegals come here with absolutely nothing and find jobs, so that argument won't fly. A federal minimum wage is too much central control. Can I assume that you are also in favor of a federal speed limit like we used to have from 1973 to 1995. The federal government has no business dictating to states how fast their citizens can drive. Anyone with basic knowledge of Economics can tell you that the minimum wage hurts both young adults starting out in the work for and small businesses who cant afford to pay for the workers. Big business support the minimum wage. However, they only support it so they can destroy the competition of small businesses. You say ... Anyone with basic knowledge of Economics can tell you that the minimum wage hurts both young adults starting out in the work for and small businesses who cant afford to pay for the workers. ......... Incorrect , why do you say ' anyone ' when that's obviously untrue otherwise no one would be disagreeing with you ,would they ? So you're saying small businesses should be allowed exploit people ? You also say ..... Big business support the minimum wage. However, they only support it so they can destroy the competition of small businesses.. So what ? Do you think a worker wanting a minimum wage gives a fuck whether one business destroys another ? 1
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Get rid of the minimum wage. Wages can remain high because of market forces, but immigrants from low-wage countries have contributed to lower wages, and disrupt the market forces. Also, trade deals disrupt the market too, leaving it unconstrained. Luckily, we have Trump to change that. Liberal logic 101. Liberals argue we need illegals to do the work Americans refuse to do. Yet, liberals claim if there is no minimum wage then Americans will work for one dollar an hour or some absurd small amount. So let me get this straight. Americans will NOT work for 7.25 an hour picking lettuce but they will work for three dollars an hour working at a fast food or being a receptionist, etc. I just do not get the logic. Americans will simply not work for 25 dollars a day or less. Employers know this, that is why they won't ever offer such a ridiculous wage. Liberals argue we need illegals to do the work Americans refuse to do. No they don't. Yet, liberals claim if there is no minimum wage then Americans will work for one dollar an hour or some absurd small amount. Not exactly. The minimum wage acts as a wage floor, so every worker is guaranteed a certain amount to live on as working time. This prevents further poverty and a potential future of lower wages for low-skilled workers. Many already make more than minimum wage, but there is a percentage that make money at the minimum wage, it is important we take their well-being account as well. 0
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Minimum wage should be set in stone and anyone paying below it prosecuted , a worker is entitled to a decent return for his / her labour and shouldn't they expect it ? All across Europe minimums wage laws apply and this is the mark of a progressive society ; do you honestly think people that work for little or nothing do so out of choice ? To pay below a fair minimum rate is exploitation That is one reason why the USA needs to get the freaking illegals out of this country. They are the ones that drive down wages by working for lower than the minimum wage. Employers do exploit the illegals, no question about it. Giving all illegals green cards only invites millions more to come here, resulting in lower wages and higher unemployment for US citizens. Your comment on decent return is very subjective. Who determines what is decent. YOU? If there was an actual citizen vote on the minimum wage and the majority said 7.50 an hour is decent, would you support it? If not, then it sounds like you are advocating for a authoritarian style government where the rights of many are suppressed by the few. Yes it's a good question as in what's fair . I was back home recently and a debate was taking part on the radio about minimum wage levels which are law , politicians were debating on reducing welfare payments as people were getting more from welfare when you factor in all the extra entitlements one gets . What is decent to me is a wage that should secure for the worker at least the basics of life as in enough for rent , food , and at least some spending money is that fair ? I was an employer in the past and I paid what was deemed to be a fairly good wage I did so because thats what I would expect for my labour if the situation was reversed , prisioners in jail are guaranteed three meals , a warm bed and access to doing a degree course all paid for by taxpayers do you not find it strange that they recieve better treatment than honest low paid workers ? We haven't actually raised it. We brought it back to 1967 levels ... when it was said that it would bankrupt businesses. If we brought back the 1% to 1967 levels there would be a LOT more money to spread around to PAY those wages, which would allow Americans to buy more and encourage AMERICAN business. But, alas, THEY have the money to pay those expensive lobbyists to give THEM all the advantages .... $15 just isn't going to cut it! I'm a conservative, and I personally believe that the minimum wage has its place. However, minimum wage is different for certain areas. In my state, where I live, it is 7.25. McDonalds, on the other hand, hires people in at 8.25. I was doing factory work for a man that would only pay me 8.00. After working 10 hours for 7 days a week, in which I worked my buttocks off doing multiple duties, I told him I was done and that it wasn't worth it. He was a great boss, but the wage was not worth the work at all. I think as a whole it is fine where it is. It's the companies responsibility to raise the wages of their employees. People need to start using their brains when working and they can usually always find a better blue collar job somewhere else. |
