Students, Schools, and the Pledge of allegiance
In many of America's public schools it is common for the pledge of allegiance to be played over the speakers every morning.
The students are expected to 'Participate' which means at least standing for the duration of the pledge, and at most fully saying the pledge loudly, clearly with hand over heart along with who ever is on the speakers.
Should students participate or not?
Students Should Participate
Side Score: 25
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Students Shouldn't Participate
Side Score: 68
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While I'm against Nationalism, I've said the Pledge in the morning from K-12 and I turned out alright. As well, most high-schoolers end up being Liberals, anyway. I really don't see how saying the Pledge will automatically turn you into some Nationalist Conservative, considering, as I've stated, that most teens are Liberals. People seem to look at the Pledge as something much more than it really is. It's important for people to understand this Nation's history (culturally, politically, etc.). Part of it comes from the Pledge. It's really just reminding us that we're a Nation that stands strong united. Never saw anything wrong with preaching unity, but maybe MLK was a nationalist asshole as well. He did say that he loved his God and Country. Pfft, what a brain-washed zealot who would never amount to anything. In reality, Nationalists don't become Nationalists because of the Pledge. An assertion like that is a symptom of paranoia, and anyone who makes that assertion should see a Psychologist immediately. I'm not a fan of the government, and I'm certainly not a fan of the government trying to become more powerful, yet I feel that the people who hate the Pledge of Allegiance the most are the people who claim that government needs to regulate more and create more social programs. That, to me, is Double Think. Personally, I couldn't give two shits on whether students participate in the Pledge of Allegiance or not. I don't think that students who refuse to pledge should be punished, if that is what this debate is implying; but I don't think that a movement should be started to stop people from saying the Pledge... it just seems so gay. Fake rebellion. Side: Students Should Participate
1
point
It probably won't turn teens into nationalist conservatives but try breaking the process and the social pressure will be heavy for you to conform; and possibly cause others to conform. Such Long term conformity leads towards a shallow and brainwashed sense of unity and utilizes dangerous group think. Well it may not lead towards any particular political ideology, it does create a 'backdoor' or 'trojan' for supporters of idealogies to use as a means of propagation. It increases the likelihood that a student's political ideology isn't really their own, but rather one that has been feed to them; at least when it comes towards some issues. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
I'm not sure what ideology you are referring to. As for propaganda, are you referring to Conservatives who say "da pledge says under god, niggers"? If so, it only creates an opening for us to understand the Cold War and Eisenhower's implement of the term "under God". The Pledge of Allegiance is part of making the class united. Now, as stated, I don't care on whether students say the pledge or not. But I do have a problem with people all of a sudden hating on the Pledge of Allegiance just because their ideology prompts them to do so. We've seen teens walk out of class during the Pledge of Allegiance in "protest" of this or that. In reality, they're just being fags. The Pledge of Allegiance doesn't fuel a "bad" ideology. Just how having an American Flag in every classroom doesn't fuel a "bad" ideology. Instead of worrying about kids becoming drones who love their country, we should worry more about things that are ACTUALLY taught to our kids. Such as Political Correctness and other brain-washing tools. Side: Students Should Participate
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... with liberty (to say whatever we tell you to and believe in God cuz we say so), and justice for all. If someone was going to sabotage America, do think they would have any qualms about breaking their elementary school pledge of allegiance to the US? Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
I strongly believe that they should all participate in this. I used to do this when I was in school and now some of the schools are not even doing it anymore it was taken out because it offended some people but you know what if the pledge of allegiance offends you then get the hell out of the United States. Side: Students Should Participate
3
points
That argument can be used for anything, it is also the opposite in spirit of that great message carved into the statue of liberty and written in our history books. If the American flag represents the home of the brave and land of the free, then what does it mean when American citizens are either forced to participate or cowardly join the band wagon in a ritual they do not connect with? Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
Take a moment or two to think what it would take for you to "get the hell out of the United States." Abandon all or most of your friends and family. Re-establish yourself in new territory. Try to find a job when you don't speak the local language. Give up many of the things that you, I suspect, take for granted. Realize, you did not chose to be born here. You were lucky. Its time you started respecting people who are in the same situation. Which is most American citizens. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
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HELL YEAH students should participate in this excersise. Are you kidding me? If you are an American Kid why shouldn't you or why would you even want to not participate? All it does is show patriotism and pride for the country that you live in. Ofcourse kids SHOULD participate in the pledge. Side: Students Should Participate
1
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Im totaly for kids doing whatever they want when it comes to the Pledge, personally I say it everyday for Im proud of what our country once stood for(Im not so crazy about it now). I just have an issue with kids under the belife that they look like some badass not saying it because its uncool, other than that I have no problem with it Side: Students Should Participate
0
points
I think you should participate in the pledge anywhere you go you might not like it but you should at least respect it. If its a odd pledge that you would have to say I would but I just won't mean it when I am saying it but I will show respect when its being said. Side: Students Should Participate
I feel like if you don't wanna pledge allegiance to a country that takes care of you and supports students with FREE public education, then you're free to leave and go somewhere that doesn't require that or be homeschooled. My God, political correctness has gotten WAY out of hand. Side: Students Should Participate
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6
points
The thing described in the description is a hollow standardized ritual force feed down the throats of innocents for years, just so they can cowardly say what ultimately are meaningless passionless words on command. It turns children into 'political zombies' and deprecates the true meaning of the pledge. Such a process is a insult to the flag and what it represents, and the only true pledge is to sit or protest in opposition to the process going on around you. I detest calling anything even unamerican, it reminds me too much of McCarthy, but among the things certainly anti-American is the despicable process the schools forces students though every morning. Political Zombies are not patriots, and its against everything the flag truly represents to attempt to make patriots by first making zombies. Such creatures might have a decent likelihood of defending their country, fighting, dieing and killing for it; but not as patriots. They do such as robots and those which the process fails on likely do such as mercenaries. How many 'Patriots' speak of America's 'christian founding'... How many 'Patriots' Blindly speak meaningless cliches of 'Best country ever' How many 'Patriots' Say "OBEY OR LEAVE". Such 'Patriots' do not know their own country, are swayed by simple emotional tricks with no intelligible rational meaning well they spit out the same they are swayed by, and demonstrate a belief in a vastly different philosophy then which this country was founded on and which has made this country what it is. America deserves better then such mindless robots. They come about due to many forces, one of which is the ritual present in many schools all across America. The Ritual used in schools across america has its ties to the same processes used in churches, and methods used by authorities in general to ensure belief and obedience without or despite rational questioning or understanding of the ritual and its associated activities. Cross breeding amongst these methods are common, and perhaps that is why their results are often seen together. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
I couldn't have put it better. It's great to be proud of your country. But a number of Americans just blindly adore their country with no regard for fact or reason, and it's largely because the American education system promotes this sort of unquestioning devotion - to the contrary of the values that America is supposed to stand for. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
And to what end? What is the goal, to establish an unwavering response in a person at the sight of a specifically colored flag? The words are null to a child, and engraving these chants shall yield no positive outcome. If one grows to become an America Zealot, then by all means, he/she/he-she/it may so choose to mutter little phrases at the cloth, but it is to be noted that such prior described word recital could only create the void shell of a 'patriot', in which lingers only slogans and unreinforced pride and a fervency to fight. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
I personally haven't done it since I started high school. There's no point in making students memorize it if they just find it an annoying task in the morning and don't even know what the words symbolize. Plus it makes me feel like I'm chanting to a flag. Which is ridiculous. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
In Britain we have never had to do it, but I think it would backfire horribly. I have been to a Church of England school where we have had to go to assemblies every week and listen to the chaplin preach for 10 minutes, and the result of that is that students who do go there end up hating christianity because they are forced to accept it. If we had to sing our national anthem(or some other patriotic ritual) daily then I have to believe that the result of this would be hating our country, if you want citizens to be patriotic do it by actually making your country great, I live in some backwashed, americanised town where hardly anyone gives a damn about our nation and being forced to sing our praises to it would only make them dislike it. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
3
points
Not all students are citizens (or even want to be, me being one of them), and those who have no reason to pledge allegiance (whether they be non-citizens or don't want to have to pretend that there's a magic sky-creature directly aligned with a particular country) shouldn't have to or be expected to. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
1
point
Our children are in effect bowing to a false god-an idol with much blood even as all of the false idols in biblical days. Had this be a nation under God we would be in perfect peace, and harmony with no jails, war or military of any kind or police or legal system holding humans in bondage. Bondage is Satan's method of justice,and not the Lord Gods. God is love with no shadow in turning. With freedom humans would freely waking about nude whenever they wanted, and sex of all kinds freely done, and not worrying who sees them,and who does not see them not worrying about the sex police pouncing on whoever like a cat waiting at a mouse hole. We would be loving,and forgiving, honest, wise, harmless, and a seekers of peace like Jesus is with him in us. Side: Students Shouldn't Participate
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