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There seems to be some pretty solid skepticism out there. Pasting in.
[http://www.theleagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=61&t;=4405&start;=20]. If the link doesn't work then simply Google "Akiane Kramerik Fraud" and the first link that pops up is the one I tried to paste above.
There's a claim in the first link that this is a family business, that the daughter's style looks pretty much identical to the mother's who also paints, and that supposedly every one of the family children is suspiciously a miracle child as well. Look at: [http://foreli.org/home/] (http://foreli.org/home/). They have a whole family business built around this.
I don't know if she's a fraud or not, but this seems to be an area rife with hoaxes and dubious claims. Does anyone remember the boy who came back from heaven?
It doesn't matter, I just found it while surfing and thought it was an interesting story. I've been reading the guy who claims to be an art expert and his reasons for saying it's fraudulent.....doesn't really matter. If it is fraud, it is a shame.......and Oprah sure was stupid for putting her on tv and Oprah should apologize for promoting her.....
Oh well, maybe she is fraudlent, but I know this punk Genadache is just a jealous little punk announcing how great of a self-trained artist he is when there is no way his art compares to the stuff coming from Kramerik...I'd like to see his website promoting his art......
Fraud is a legal and serious accusation, I'll go with innocent until proven guilty......
and I NEVER said the girl or her claims is proof of God or Heaven or anything like that, and never depend on such stuff to support my arguments...simply thought it was a good story and good for stirring discussion and it worked.
Ok, so I could be wrong. Her parents said they were atheists and we know atheists have no objective reason for any kind of morality so why should they not use their children to invent an elaborate hoax to get rich?
The whole story was new to me, and with the girl being on the Oprah show, after Katie Couric, and then Glenn Beck, it looked pretty good but since her parents did say they were atheists, that makes it clear that they have no reason to behave according to a moral code and could very well have used the child to create a hoax and laugh their way to the bank...typical atheists
I thought Katie Couric and Oprah would have done better homework to prove she was genuine....I should have known better than to trust anything those witches promote........it does look like a hoax the more I think about it, but at first I went by the endorsement of Couric and Oprah, and then Glenn Beck who apparently were duped.........typical atheist actions to pull hoaxes and laugh their way to the bank. There have been some big name "Christian Rock" artists who admitted to being atheists and fake throughout their whole career as they pretended to be Christians. My mistake for putting it up for discussion before investigating it more, but a lot of idiots sure made big mouth stupid comments before they knew what they were talking about..
And again, I never said the girl or her claims is proof of God or heaven, I simply believed her story and saw no other explanation than that she was gifted from God. So maybe she's a fraud. That does not disprove God or Heaven, it only disproves her story. If her story was true, it only means she had visions and believes they are from God and representative of heaven and things of God. That's her.
My mistake for not making better disclaimers as I started the whole thing.....
Of course, her parents said they were atheists, and atheists have no objective reason for any kind of morality, so it wouldn't surprise me if they invented a big hoax.
Haha, Grenache wins. Just 4 hours ago you thought the only possible explanation was a gift from God. Now you believe Grenache might be right. You lose yet again.
whoopity do. Grenadee opened his big mouth before he had any idea what he was talking about.......and if the thing is a fraud, all it does is prove that atheists can pull frauds with no remorse.
Endorsed on Oprah, Katie Couric, and Glenn Beck, I assumed they would have done some research to know if the girl actually paints these things...apparently they did not verify things and should have looked into it more before posting the way I did.
Uh huh, sure. If you believe that, you are dumber than Oprah. Atheists have no fear of God so they can do whatever they feel like doing whenever they feel like it in any way they feel like it.
I know you are dumber than Oprah anyways. Now who is backtracking? At least I can admit mistakes. I fear God and don't try to lie...you are lying and backtracking now. I'm done here.
Old enough to repeatedly disprove you and ruin your day. This is about 5 times in a row that your only counter was a lame personal attack, because that's all you've got.
You deserve no respect from me.........you had no idea who or what you were talking about when you first heard of this from my debate, come on there talking like you know it all and are yourself a great artist... you're just a punk, that's all........I tried to reason with you before and all you do is proclaim how great you think you are.....so I gave up on you, generally reading no more than the first five words of any of your posts.
I still say you are just a jealous little punk because you had no idea what you were talking about when this discussion was started by ME...and you have always acted like a jealous little punk with me so nothing has changed though you may feel you have more reason to hate God and believe you have the right to exist outside of Hell.
No, but you're entitled to express that opinion. And THAT is a fundamental difference between you and me on this site. I don't shut you off, I just make my arguments. And that's not me being a punk, that's being a debater.
You are entitled to refuse God's offer of salvation through Jesus Christ, and He is entitled to keep you in Hell forever paying for your sins after you reject Him who paid your price in death. Why can't you get it? You just love your sin more tnan life and are paying for it like a fool.
Why can't you get that just because a handful of verses written years after Christ's death say believe this particular thing and you're already saved doesn't mean you then have license to go be an @ss to everyone else in existence?
Nothing you have ever said to me in any debate has ever scared me, and that's not a rejection of God, it's a rejection of your narrow warped angry judgmental meddling niche of Christian belief.
This is dumb, thanking God does not exclude thanking people He gave the ability to help. There are some people who like to help me, and I thank God for them and I thank them for what they do. I dove into an overturned minivan with four people hanging upside down from seat belts in fear that the thing might burst into flames and I would have to stand there watching. I got them all out, and guess who they thanked when they were all four standing together safe....guess who they thanked.
I'll tell you who I thanked....I thanked God for giving me the ability to get in there and get those people out.
Here's a description of people who thank God for nothing.....
.
..........the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
You've never been anything but a punk with me, trying to shut me up with your bullying tactics, playing these childish mind games where you pretend to be good and innocent. Just a punk, a kid who think's he knows it all.
Who calls names and intimidates? You. Who bans people and pretends he is a mini God? You. Who spreads the word of Satan? You. Who is incapable of banning me for this post? You.
Will you quit whining? I finally gave you what you wanted and banned you, you should be happy now.......now you can whine about how you feel unfairly treated for being banned
I'm not whining, I'm glad you banned me. Though if I was whining, there would be nothing you could do about it. You enjoy playing God and banning people. I said you were going to ban me and then you did. I'm happy that you proved my point. Thank you.
Createdebate is not analogous to the real world. All of your false notions about the world spring from that screwy book the devil wrote. I would suggest you put it down and get to know God. Or just continue on your miserable way. Up to you.
What makes you think God messed up creating people so much that everyone is hell bound? You know a tree by its fruit. Humanity is the fruit of God. Your claim that humanity is awful is a direct insult to humanities creator. If you created a painting and I said it sucked, would you feel like I was serving you? What makes you think you have the right to insult God? How long do you expect to get away with it?
She's not a fraud, she's just a kid who is being told that her talent is some god given gift. Hopefully she wises up and doesn't go on to attribute every constructive skill she gains to the grace of some creator and instead takes pride and credit in herself.
I hate to admit it, but the whole thing does look like a very well planned and executed fraud. Nobody has ever actually seen the girl paint, and now that she's over 18 and becoming an adult who would be more open to scrutiny not sheltered by her parents, she's saying the visions are stopping.
Her parents said they were atheists at the start. Why shouldn't they make such a scheme to dupe people who enjoy believing in this kind of stuff? It's very easy to believe because the girl looks so sweet and innocent. I thought it was a good story and promoted her before I investigated, should have known better,,,,,,,but the kid fooled Oprah and got on TV, fooled Katie Couric, fooled Glen Beck........
Atheists sure can be slick and tricky when they put their minds to it. No wonder Jesus said "the children of this generation are wiser than the children of light".
