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The Meaning of Life
This is designed as a philosophical discussion. If you hate God, you probably won't be able to refrain from cussing or using His name in a blasphemous fashion, and you can expect to be banned quickly. If you are able to discuss the topic here civilly, I believe we can get some good discussions going.
We can start with some questions of definition....what is life? Some would say it is nothing more than complex chemical reactions, some would say it is organisms which interact with their environment. In this definition, life can euphemistically be thought of as a gift from nature, or a more cynically be viewed as a curse of nature due to the sufferings and pains we must witness and/or endure. Some, like myself, will say life is God's making for His own pleasure, and it is a gift from God. The key point here is "gift" or "curse" or what else???...meaninglessness? Your comments are welcome as long as you refrain from cussing and engage me in the topics of the posts. So far, the topics include "life", "gift", "curse", "meaninglessness".
If life is not given by God, then what is it's meaning? Many have said things such as "life means whatever you say it means", or "life means you try to survive as long as you find it's worth surviving" or "life means we have a driving force to accomplish things". I say life means God is good because He gives life and giving is good. I think there is plenty of fuel here for good civil discourse, and I hope to find people willing and able to provide enjoyable discussion here.
So I guess you don't want to discuss the topics and only want me to ban you, correct? I'm giving you a clean slate here. If you will discuss the topics civilly, you won't get banned. I think I made it pretty easy to have a philosophical discussion regarding things in the OP. Do you want to discuss the things or do you want me to ban you so I don't have to look at any more of this childish graffiti from you here?
In this definition, life can euphemistically be thought of as a gift from nature, or a more cynically be viewed as a curse of nature due to the sufferings and pains we must witness and/or endure. Some, like myself, will say life is God's making for His own pleasure, and it is a gift from God.
Do you not see the moral turpitude and irrationality in reconciling the facts you listed (suffering and pain), and the belief that God created such inexorable woes for his own aesthetic, or otherwise, pleasure?
---
Aside: Do you think 8 year old sex slaves indefinitely imprisoned unless otherwise killed-- by way of disembowelment, decapitation, incineration, or some other gruesome, iniquitous fashion --should view life as a 'gift' from god?
So you are taking the position that life is a curse of nature because of the pain and suffering we see and feel?
You are asking the wrong questions based on your irrational hypothesis. I am going to ask you questions so maybe you can look at things differently and forget your anger toward God for a minute. Do I deserve to have good things when some 8 year olds have nothing but evil all day long? Why am I better than others who suffer more than me? What makes you better so that you should not be the one suffering in place of the 8 year old? Why does God allow you to enjoy good things while so many in the world have nothing but pain? What makes you so good that you are not the 8 year old whose sufferings you are blaming God for rather than blaming the people who cause the suffering? So you thank God for nothing you know as good, and you insist life is cruel and God is not good?
Don't you see the irrationality of trying to say God is not being good to you, and He is not good because He has allowed pain and suffering to continue?
So you are taking the position that life is a curse of nature because of the pain and suffering we see and feel?
I'm not suggesting that life necessarily a "curse" since pain & suffering; rather, pain & suffering is a necessary function which would only be sensible if there was no omnibenevolent god who created the medium through which said pain and suffering manifests; and it would be erroneous to claim that he did not intend for pain & suffering (such as the holocaust or harems of prepubescent children who will never know the 'good' that you insist life brings) since he knew such grotesque acts would follow from his creation.
Don't you see the irrationality of trying to say God is not being good to you, and He is not good because He has allowed pain and suffering to continue?
This has nothing to do with me - I am a pantheist. However, I do see the irrationality in believing that an all-loving, good god, incapable of wrongdoings, having the power to alleviate pain and suffering but refusing to do so since 'free will'. Yet, he supposedly did so in past (as written in the biblical texts).
Yes, it is perfectly rational to find that nonexistent hypothetical monster monumentally wicked for creating such a world while knowing the amount of pain and suffering that would ensue.
God intentionally created pain & suffering; he set up a series of events that would lead up to the slaughter, rape, evisceration, etc.
Lastly, god did/does not just allow pain and suffering; god created pain and suffering (since he created everything).
So you summarize the meaning of life as "Life means God is evil." ?
That seems to be what you are saying....or are you saying "The meaning of life is that there is no God"?
Can we narrow down your points and try to keep focus on the OP? Can you clearly state what you believe the meaning of life is?
The two questions I'm asking you in this post surely contain your position in one or the other posts. Please clarify your position, asy it plain and simple. You must be saying "Life means God is evil" or "Life means there is no God".
As far as I can tell (and I will hopefully be corrected if this is wrong) Harvard was trying to respond directly to your claim that life is directly connected to God. Harvard was pointing out that if life is connected to God, then God is evil.
Harvard was doing nothing but insulting God. He's on the verge of being banned here. He spoke very little if any about his personal ideas regarding the meaning of life. I'm trying to get him to focus on the topic here. Let Harvard speak for himself, and for you, please speak of your own ideas of the meaning of life. If you believe life means God is evil, then say so. If that is what you believe, then you are doomed by an evil God, aren't you?
I want personal ideas and concepts, not long attacks against God. I want you to make this personal to yourself, and share with us your personal ideas and feelings about your own life. Harvard was not doing that...though for you and him both, it seems you are bitter about your own lives because they seem meaningless.
Most people have offered good discussion here. Harvard did not, and I will not allow the discussion to go off on his tangent. I will ban you and him both if you will not focus on discussing your ideas of the meaning of life. If you hate God and you think He's evil, then you really have nothing to contribute here. I stated in the OP that I would ban people who act the way you are pushing the boundaries, and I will reluctantly ban you if all you want to do is whine about why you hate God.
This has everything to do with you. You are not thanking God for being good to you. You are trying to say "Life means God is evil because there is pain and suffering", or "Life means there is no God because there is pain and suffering".
You are mostly expressing your personal animosity against God instead of discussing the meaning of life. Please focus on your beliefs regarding the meaning of life. I do not appreciate the way you act so happy to have 8 year old sex slaves in the world by which to accuse God of not being good. God is being good to you in that He is allowing you to live while speaking evil against Him. I'm not going to allow you to continue doing it here. If you cannot express your beliefs about the meaning of life without a long twist of your hatred against God, I'm going to ban you. I think you are taking a sick pleasure in the fact that pain and evil are in the world as you are using these things to make yourself feel powerful in saying God is not good. There is something evil in you, and I don't see any reason to believe you will contribute constructively to the discussion here.
By the way, I want to mention that you are being terribly cold hearted in your comments as you are implying that God does not care for the people who are my friends and family and are suffering terrible diseases with more pain and suffering than the 8 year old sex-slave who you are pretending to care about by insisting God does not care for that boy and God is not good. What good do you think you are doing by telling people that God is not good and does not care for them? I think you're coldhearted...self-centered....and now I'm sure you will want to tell me all about the good things you do and the people you are kind to and love...but why do you not try to help that 8 year old sex slave yourself? Talk is cheap.
The absence of independence? which can't be referenced? Can you explain these concepts in a paragraph or two? I don't know how to respond to this, it seems unclear to me. Please elaborate.
If life has meaning, it can't be spoken of (anything which can be spoken of means the existence of contradiction - and contradiction means the existence of referencing itself).
Independence means the existence of reality - the antithesis of the point of reality (the meaning of life).
So you don't know the meaning of life and you believe you can't know it? Does that mean it's confusing for you to try to understand the meaning of life, so you quit trying to understand?
Can you define the word "life"? If you can define the word, doesn't that imply at least a beginning of meaning for life?
I still am having trouble understanding what you are saying....how does independence mean the existence of reality? Reality does not exist without independence? Nobody is really independent since we all depend on air, food, and water, so does that mean life is not reality? Is that what you are saying? You believe the meaning of life is that there is no reality? Is that it?
Words like "independence" are just being used here as representations. What I understand is that all content is because of all content - so when the performers of Celtic Woman exhibit all their greatness on stage, that's content which is dependent on other content.
All I can say is that the absence of independence being the meaning of life is the logical conclusion of "my own" thinking process. To me, "if" the meaning of life exists, its own existence is predicated on the erasure of all content - i.e. referencing.
Moreover, all I now have care for is to do what I consider to be "reality's bidding" - meaning in my own mind to give every life form on the planet the public identity of "the Universe".
So what happens when you can no longer do what you do? Reality denies life, so it is void of meaning? In the infinite span of forever, your lifetime is comparatively only a brief moment and you won't long be able to give any life form anything. And do those life forms need you to give them identity?
Let me try to think your lines again, maybe we're on to something here. You are saying the meaning of life is the absence of independence, correct? So life means you cannot be fully independent? To be fully independent you would have to be God, so He gives life and we are dependent on His gift? And this would mean God is good because He is the giver of life?
Reality means independence, so the purpose of life is to create unification. I don't know where God comes into it (are all life forms God - and if so, does that contradict the very notion of purpose?)..
One just needs to keep in mind the truth about contradiction. All of existence means the existence of contradiction, which means that the meaning of life could mean to cancel all contradiction.
Reality does not mean independence. It makes no sense to say that reality means independence. Your wordings and thought process here are practically incoherent and unintelligible.
I'll try to make a little sense from your concluding phrase, "the meaning of life could mean to cancel all contradiction". My assertion is that life means God is good because God gives life and giving is good, so life shows God is the giver and it means He is good. Yes there is contradiction which goes against God. People generally want to do their own thing and not allow God to rule over them. They insist they should be allowed to go their own way. The goodness of God will eventually end contradiction against him. Arguments contradicting God will no longer be heard when they are confined and consumed in the fire of Hell, and only the smoke rising from the torments of people there will show that contradiction against God can exist by choice of people who have powers of reason and imagination like God's. It's a bad choice. Life means God is good, and He cannot be good if He does not end contradiction which goes against Him. If He does not end such contradiction, He is no better than that contradiction. To "cancel" contradiction, which implies causing contradictors to cease to exist, would imply God is unable to handle contradiction. God can handle it. Those who engage in it contradicting God cannot handle it because it always results in destruction of goodness, depriving the contradictor of knowing anything good. Contradiction against God goes against the life of the contradictor.
Because of logical deductions I've recently conducted, one conclusion I've come up with is that the meaning of life is the absence of presence, because that means the absence of absence.
That's nonsense. If the meaning of life is the absence of presence, then you are not here. So you are saying the meaning of life is that you do not exist? Nonsense. If you don't want to discuss the logic of the OP, I think I've heard enough of your nonsense that I can ban you? Is that ok with you?
If the opposite of existence can't be created, then that means the meaning of life doesn't exist - pure and simple. For me personally, Halloween The Curse of Michael Myers is the meaning of life.
What if the whole purpose of life is to live for the sake of living? In other words, life just wants to keep on living. Then, in that context, what it means for us humans is that our purpose is to increase the chances that life will continue. To that end we must increase our technology so that we can manipulate and control our environment. We need to beat global warming or learn to live with it (adapt). We need to travel to the stars so that we do not have all of our eggs (life) in one basket (Earth).
To live for the sake of living? So there is no right or wrong in anything we do, we are nothing but animals living for the sake of living and life has no meaning but we try to stay alive anyways?
What happens when a person gets tired of it and does not want to live anymore?
I do not define life as the life of a single human being because I believe our souls are eternal. I define life as ALL life. The survival of one species does not matter. The survival of at least one species is what matters most. The meaning of life is to make sure that at least one species survives.
If you travel to the stars, what good is that for me? How does that give meaning to my life? I would miss you if you were gone off to the stars....Missing you is supposed to make life meaningful?
The question here is about the meaning of life, not the purpose of life. The purpose of life to you is about what you do. What is the meaning of life to you? What does life mean to you?
Most people are going along the lines of what they want to do in life, so to them I guess life means doing whatever you feel like doing....I don't know. I still think the answer I gave in the OP is the simplest, plainest, and most logical answer...easy to understand and plainly stated.
Not bad; well constructed and eloquently stated. Can I correctly rephrase your concept by saying life is antithetical to death, and the meaning of life is to conquer death? So while we die, we live on through our children and life still has meaning even though we are no longer in it?
I would not categorize the purpose of life as conquering death for 2 reasons:
1. Death is a part of life.
2. It is not the individuals life that is important, it is life in general that is important.
For example, it doesn't matter if humans become extinct. It matters if every life form becomes extinct.
Having said all of that, I believe that the thing you call you will always exist. I find it hard to believe that consciousness is nothing more than random chemical reactions. In this context, death has little meaning. Therefore, I do not believe that the purpose of life is to conquer death.
Death is part of life? Does that mean you are in death now the same as you are in life now, since death is a part of life and is not separate from life?
I personally don't think that is true. Now when we complete EVERYTHING then life would be meaningless. We still have all of outer space to explore, we still have the oceans to explore, we still have new technology to be made, we still have world peace to create, we still have poverty to lower, we still have friends and family. Do you see my point?
We can achieve the goal of reducing the posibility that all life forms become extinct if we increase our technology to the point where we can travel to other stars.
I might answer you, but I don't want to see you go off in your temper tantrum foul mouth manner and then watch you whine about not being able to stop yourself from cursing. You need a good whooping, boy.
The topic between you and I is your unwillingness to control your foul language. If you don't have enough brain power to express your frustrations without cursing, I'm going to avoid reading your posts.
In this debate/discussion, you have a clean slate to speak freely relating to the topic and points of the OP. What is the meaning of life? If you have not read the OP, please read it and offer some comments.
Oh and also, I wasn't talking about the debates topic, I was talking about the topic Jolie and I were debating. The reply you made to me was totally off topic of what we were discussing.
I can very much so express my frustrations without cursing, as I am now. But with very far right conservatives like FromWithin who couldn't care less about the poor, and he is very stubborn and very belligerent (but I can't say that I'm any better).
By then, our technology may have developed to the point where we can survive a Big Bang or make sure we pass along the seeds of life and thus reach God level.
Nothing can beat out the laws of physics. In the big bounce; our expanding universe will contract rather than expand into the near future. Which will cause all matter to be brought down to the size of an atom. But maybe, just maybe that will create enough energy to recreate the universe. In the big rip; our universe will expand so much that things will begin to rip apart, atom by atom. This will cause the destruction of all matter. I don't think we can beat that, even at a god-like level.
We are just beginning the path of cloning. Cloning and genetic engineering are hand in hand. Once we master cloning then we can begin genetic engineering.
jolie....You were doing great for a while there, discussing in a back and forth manner. You blew it with this foul mouth comment. I'm sorry I have to ban you now, hopefully you will keep better manners in a future discussion where I moderate.
Cap, you are going off on a tangent. The discussion here is about the meaning of life. You are prolonging an argument which provoked jolie to crude speech, an argument which is too far removed from the subject of the OP. I'm thinking about banning you now, and the only thing that will keep you in this discussion now is if I see clear focus from you regarding the meaning of life.
edited, didn't realize I was responding to "The Meaning of Life" discussion where I banned these two for foul language and taking the discussion too far off topic.
2. It is not the individuals life that is important, it is life in general that is important.
So you, as in individual, are not important, so your life has little if any value and it's meaning is not important?
I thought you were important as an individual....I will always think you are important as an individual. If I saw you in a car crash in danger of the thing bursting into flames, I would probably dive into the broken window to get you out because I see you, as in individual, as important. It would not be the first time I rescued strangers in that manner.
Once life has spread to the stars and it is clear that the chances of every life form becoming extinct is nearly impossible, then the "souls" can enjoy they playground they have built.
Ok, very good and well stated. Thank you for the contribution. I addressed parts in two separate posts before I read your entire post...and I'm getting too sleepy to respond to the whole post in one post. I do appreciate you being coherent and consistent in stating your beliefs here. Thank you for your comments, I really wish I had more time to discuss your idea more in depth. I hope you know that God loves you no matter what.
I'll leave you with this...you stated that the purpose of life is not to conquer death, and death has little meaning. Remember, we are questioning the meaning of life here....I still much appreciate your comments and input and will respond tomorrow if I have time. Why is life important if death is part of life and death has little meaning? Why does it matter if every life form becomes extinct while the consciousness of the life form (assuming you mean the individual living thing) continues to exist?
I really am getting sleepy and it makes my poor grammar and composition skills worse when I'm am tired.....sometimes I have to close one eye to keep the screen in focus. Goodnight.
I can't prove anything you won't believe, and if you think this conversation is meaningless, why are you here?
I'm giving you a clean slate here, holding nothing against you here, your comments and questions so far are ok but they are going nowhere if you cannot elaborate on why you think life has no objective meaning.
Persistence of consciousness after death, or no persistence of consciousness after death, does not answer the question of the meaning of life. People have made excellent comments here, and I hope you have more to offer than simply saying the conversation is meaningless. Until you know the meaning of life and can state it clearly in words, I don't think it's meaningless to try to figure it out. You might want to read the OP again to find ideas to talk about. I really would like to hear you explain your beliefs about the meaning or meaninglessness of life. I value your time here, so there must be some kind of meaning to it. I hope you will join in the conversation.
You first have to define life because it has many meanings. I do not define life as the life of a single human being because I believe our souls are eternal. I define life as ALL life. The survival of one species does not matter. The survival of at least one species is what matters most.
You are confusing the purpose of life with the meaning of life. You are talking about things you do while you exist. What is the meaning of your existence? It's a different question than "what is the purpose of your life". The purpose of your life may be subjective to your own desires, ideas, and feelings. The meaning of life is objective, the question is seeking an objective answer for the meaning of life. If we don't have an objective answer, than whatever answer we give or find can change whenever we feel like it should change, and it can be different for others than for us. An objective answer cannot be different for different individuals.
Cute, but I would appreciated it if humor would be kept in context of the OP. If you think the meaning of life is to eat as many marmalade sandwiches as you can, then I guess you think life has very little meaning. Let's see if we can relate your comments to the comments in the OP.....I think we can say your comment fits under my suggestion of "life means we have a driving force to accomplish things" which is found near the end of the OP. I would have at least hoped you would be driven to accomplish better things than eating marmalade sandwiches.
Maybe you can define "life" or "meaning", since by the way you are using those terms I am not sure if you have any real meaning for those terms.
Well Okay then, add some good old Irish country butter to your marmalade sandwich accompanied by a black frothy pint of chilled triple X guinness and there you have the meaning of life on a plate and in a big dimpled glass. Now, not even Jesus Christ Superstar could argue with that.
You were banned for ignoring the OP and my attempts to cordially invite you to join in the discussion. Next time, I guess I know better than to give you more than one chance.
There is probably no meaning, or purpose to life. Just as there is no meaning or purpose for the fire that burns inside our sun, or the clouds that drift over out heads, or the galaxies that spin toward the farthest reaches of the universe. A thing can simply be the effect of other things. It seems to me that all of it can just exist without some purpose or destiny. It's a lonely universe, but still quite a big deal anyway. Don't you think?
If there is no meaning, why is it a big deal? Is it a big deal because you decided that there is no meaning or purpose to the sun and you are no better or different than the sun? How is that a big deal? It sounds to me like a meaningless deal. So you think life "probably" has no meaning or purpose. Ok. thank you.
So a person who grieves over a child or loved one taken away by death is wrong to grieve the loss when they don't grieve losing the view of a cloud as it drifts overhead and out of sight? Life's meaning is no more than the meaning of a spinning galaxy?
Great comments and discussion so far, thanks to all of you. Merry Christmas and good night...Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, and good will toward men.
Life is about each individual experiencing reality or illusion. We are all part of the same unified string theory. We are frequency which is a form of energy, so energy is never lost which means we never die, just our body dies. Which means, we come back in a different life forms to experience all aspects of life. Life is like saying God is experiencing life through all of us. God could be someone or all of us put together as a unified string. Including animals and materials things like rocks.
Sorry, that guy got banned for ignoring the OP an ignoring me in the discussion. If you want to talk about your ideas regarding "contradiction" and "discrepancy" and how they relate to the meaning of life, or to the meaninglessness of life...which if I recall is the summation of your ideas, that life has no meaning at all because to imply meaning would negate itself due to indicators which seem to say it's meaningless? I'm trying to get these belief systems held by individuals stated clearly in ways we can all understand.
He repeated his ideas of gorging his appetite as being the meaning of life and refused to engage me in conversation beyond those ideas. That is why he got banned. I think He threw in the insulting reference to Jesus Christ because He didn't care if he was banned, and maybe even wanted to be banned. Let's forget about that and focus on the discussion related to the OP.
It seems to me that you are saying the meaning of life is confusing;
so when somebody directly asks you "what is the meaning of life", you would say "It's confusing, the meaning of life is confusing and that's why we are confused about it". In simple terms, does that not cover your ideas about contradiction existing in reality or perhaps being pure fantasy, so nothing is real?
Can we look at the last phrase of your post here......."....the story that's meant to be told." Are you saying the meaning of life is a story that is meant to be told? I think I like that idea.
So when I ask, "what is the meaning of life", your answer is "to create unification", but it is impossible for you to unite with anything but yourself isn't it? So by that definition, life is futile?
I don't understand what you are talking about. If you can't explain what you believe is the meaning of life in direct terms which are easy to understand, your "meaning" is confusing.
So you believe all is God, and God is all. Ok, but what is the meaning of life? What does it mean? It means you go around and around forever with no point other than to go around and around, suffering and dying over and over and over again? So you are stuck in a never ending cycle of being illusion or reality and then you die and become illusive reality? I don't even know what I'm saying as I try to put your words in context I can understand.
If you experience illusion, or if you experience reality, how would you know the difference? If life is a illusion and death is only a point in the cycle of recycling of whatever "force" is in you, then you are nobody and force is somebody but it's not you because it's an illusion?
That is something you are trying to do, and I don't know what makes you think that you can do it. The question here is not "what do you want to do in life". The question is, what is the meaning of life?
Many living things cannot attain "enlightenment", whatever you mean by that, so for them life has no meaning?
If you are going to get "enlightenment", why must you go through indefinite numbers of deaths before you get there? Why were you forced to go through it over and over and over again? Wouldn't that be cold and cruel of whatever is forcing you to go through it?
So you are saying life means it is cruel?...or are you only trying to escape reality in your mind?
Thank you all for your excellent comments and manners. After a while, I'll try to make a summation of everybody's comments and offer my own commentary.....and I think you all know I support the concept of God's being good as the meaning of life. I believe life means God is good and in the OP I gave a brief summary of why I believe this....The meaning of life is that God is Good. Life means God is good.
Before I go into more detail explain my logic, I want to hear more of yours....and some I would like to hear in simpler terms. I'm trying to sort out the ideas and concepts you all have in ways I can accurately state them in my own words so you can agree that I understand your beliefs and logic in those beliefs. Tired again tonight, probably won't be awake much longer.
You are talking about what you want to do. You are not explaining the meaning of life. The things you want to do are not possible for some people to even begin trying to do. The meaning of life must apply to people who are incapable of finding inner peace and incapable of acquiring knowledge about the world or it is not a valid meaning.
why? You do not explain why in any logical fashion. Some people don't want to find inner peace and don't care to know about the world and themselves. How does your "meaning of life" apply to them?
I have yet to encounter a compelling reason to attribute any external meaning to "life". The necessary result of physics acting on matter is good enough for me.
So you find life meaningless. I can see how you arrive at that conclusion...I think...but can you elaborate?
The mechanics of life is not the meaning of life....or are you saying life means physics act on matter and nothing more, so you believe there really is no such thing as life, and life means nothing at all?
So you find life meaningless. ...can you elaborate?
I understand "how life", and can't find anything pointing to the "why life", that may prove to be an incoherent question.
are you saying life means physics act on matter and nothing more
Yes?
so you believe there really is no such thing as life
These two definitions popped up when I Googled "define:life"
I have no objection to either, and accept the existence of both.
the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
the existence of an individual human being or animal.
and life means nothing at all?
I have a hard time reconciling this question due to phrasing, the closest to an answer I can give is I see no reason to believe that life has any inherent meaning.
Well that explains why you are able to define "life", but anable to see that it has meaning. If "life" is nothing but chemical reactions which happen for no good reason, of course it is meaningless since the compilation of chemical reactions which would individually attempt to ascribe meaning to it is lost in death. I believe life is a gift from God, and therefore it is precious because He loves it.
The only problem I have with they google definition of "life" is that it fails to recognize the dying process which overshadows "life" from the moment "life" of any organism is conceived. Even the hydra which is said to show no signs of dying is doomed to death in a dying universe. If none of it has meaning, there is no reason to live and no reason to allow others to live if they are hindering your enjoyments of life....and you feel the risk of retaliation is less that the gains you would have by removing or injuring other people.
Survival of the fittest is all that matters if life has no meaning, right?
of course it is meaningless since the compilation of chemical reactions which would individually attempt to ascribe meaning to it is lost in death.
I agree to a point, but even without death, I think the question of meaning is ill formed.
The only problem I have with they google definition of "life" is that it fails to recognize the dying process which overshadows "life" from the moment "life" of any organism is conceived.
I either don't understand your point, or disagree. Death is a completely separate issue, and something that isn't necessary to life. Death is only common because it is evolutionary advantageous.
Both for things to die naturally which benefit their genes, as well as for the genes of things that kill other things for what they are composed of.
If none of it has meaning, there is no reason to live
The reason to live is because some things are enjoyable.
there is no reason to live and no reason to allow others to live if they are hindering your enjoyments of life....and you feel the risk of retaliation is less that the gains you would have by removing or injuring other people.
Sure, seems to show in human history.
Survival of the fittest is all that matters if life has no meaning, right?
If you'll believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, He will give you a new life and you will know it is meaningful and has purpose which is all good. God gives joy in living when He is our life, when Jesus is the life of me or of you, there is joy which gives strength for any problems we have or which may come.
The meaning of life is probably meaning. "meaning what" Just meaning in general. That means you would have to just know something when it will soon become nothing by something.
I'm sorry, I don't understand this. How can something become nothing by something, and what is the something by which something becomes nothing? Are you trying to say something is nothing, and nothing is real?
I'm saying everything is real, but anything is not real because nothing is real but real in anything and everything but also real when it's nothing at every event of anything happening. Confusing, but it could be true.
Confusing but it could be true? How would you know if it's true if it's confusing? What you are saying is nonsense...so I guess you believe that the meaning of life is nonsense?
No, confusing is serious, but true is confusing and non-sense and serious could be non-sense and life exist but nothing and anything is everything but nothing is serious and it's true but true is confusing and non-sense and serious could be non-sense and life exist but nothing and anything is everything but nothing is serious but true is confusing and non-sense and serious could be non-sense and life exist but nothing and anything is everything but nothing is serious but true is confusing and non-sense and serious could be non-sense and life exist but nothing and anything is everything but nothing is serious. What I'm saying is that there is loopholes to life.
Are you serious? you think the meaning of life is to be confused? How can you say you have any idea about the meaning of life if you are confused? Do you want to be confused, or do you feel confused and powerless to understand why you are confused?
Are you sure the loopholes are not holes in your logic which seems to go around in endless circles or hoopholes?
I see a lot of people talking about what they do in life rather than what life means. Some Hindu types are talking about life's purpose which they believe is to attain "Nirvana". I'm not really sure what they mean by that, but the purpose of life and the meaning of life are two different things. Many here seem to be saying they believe life has no purpose or meaning.
Does anybody see that most of the discussion about the meaning of life is subjective to the individual and cannot be universally applied to all living things? "Life" includes all living things. The only way life's meaning can be ascertained is objectively. It's not about what you do, it's about why you are what you are.
The questions such as "who am I", "why am I here" "where am I going" "will I be me forever, or will I cease to be me in the future?"
questions like that....are always questionable if life does not have objective meaning which does not depend on what we do, what we say, or how we feel.
Where do you get this garbage, and why do you believe it? Oh yeah, you can't believe Jesus because according to His word you are on your way to Hell and you can't handle the truth.
I believe the meaning of life is to glorify God and share his word with all the known world. From a non-religious view I guess I could say the meaning of life is defined by what life can offer someone in a lifetime.
I think "to glorify God" has more to do with the purpose of life, but that may be a bit of splitting hairs. "to glorify God" would be the objective answer for the purpose of life, and if "the meaning of life is defined by what life can offer someone in a lifetime", then that meaning is subjective and variable.......undefined and incommunicable. Doesn't life offer us a lot of things we do not receive by choice or by error? Is there one thing life can offer which gives life meaning which you can verbalize plainly so I can understand?
When I said what life can offer someone in a lifetime I meant for it to be subjective. I misinterpreted the original question, but if we are just trying to define life then even that would be subjective.
If you are trying to make the meaning of life subjective to your own opinions, feelings, or beliefs, then the meaning you imply cannot be applied to me if I do not agree with it. If we say life means God is good, then the meaning of life is objective as it is from God and applies to all living things if they agree with it or not. It's really very simple if you don't try to make the meaning of life subjective to your own feelings about it.
I am not trying to define life. I am trying to show that the meaning of life is that God is good, and when we understand this we don't have to ask the question any more. I'm allowing others to express their subjective ideas of the meaning of life in hope of presenting the gospel of God in the resurrection of Jesus Christ offering forgiveness of sin, and salvation from Hell....in a fashion which may help somebody to see that Jesus is the Light of the world.
Well yes, I fully agree on God's grace and glory. I just didn't know where you stood religiously. From a non-religious stand point one may say that there isn't a meaning. If there is a meaning then there is a purpose. Some don't like that idea.
"What is the meaning of life?" is a question of reality, not of religion. Are you living in reality? Your comments do not make it clear if you believe you are real.
I'm well aware of that. That is why I gave two answers in my first post. One was from my point of view, a religious view, and the other was a non-religious view. The fact that there are so many answers, or guesses if you prefer that word, on what the meaning of life is shows me that this meaning is relative to the point of view of the one being questioned. If there was one completely objective meaning to life then everyone would give the same response. This isn't the case though.
If the meaning of life is not objective, it is not real as it cannot be applied to all living things. People generally do not believe God is good but rather they believe He is evil or uncaring at best. That is why they think the meaning of life cannot be defined and is subjective to their own feelings. As best as I can tell, you do not believe life means God is good but rather that life means you are free to do whatever you feel like doing. Death proves you wrong, but you keep on believing yourself anyways. Correct?
If the meaning of life is not objective, it is not real as it cannot be applied to all living things.
I agree that if a meaning isn't objective it doesn't apply to all living things, but saying it isn't real seems false in my eyes. For example, if a teacher gives all her students a test randomly without saying anything many students would try to find a meaning behind the surprise test. Some could say that the teacher is cruel, some could say the teacher wants to track progress, and some could say the teacher wants to make the students study harder and be prepared for random tests. Could these subjective assumptions be false? Of course. Are they real? Of course. These assumptions may not be accurate, but they are real possibilities. I don't see why someone's subjective experience is automatically no longer real if it doesn't apply to all.
People generally do not believe God is good but rather they believe He is evil or uncaring at best.
So, are these subjective assumptions real or not?
That is why they think the meaning of life cannot be defined and is subjective to their own feelings.
I don't think so. People believe the meaning of life is what you make of it simply because of the fact that an objective meaning hasn't be found or isn't applicable to everyone. God doesn't necessarily have to be in that situation.
As best as I can tell, you do not believe life means God is good but rather that life means you are free to do whatever you feel like doing.
In my first post I gave a purpose and not a meaning. I believe the meaning of life is for God's knowing only. Asking me what the meaning of life is seems like asking me why God created us. The bible can help clarify that.
Death proves you wrong, but you keep on believing yourself anyways. Correct?
I"m sorry, this is too meandering for me, I don't have time to read this. Please make your points in fewer words.
The only thing real about a person's belief regarding the meaning of life what that meaning may be different for another person is that the person who believes incorrectly about life's meaning is wrong. If life's meaning does not apply to all living things, the whoever believes differently is wrong, and their wrong belief is real only for them and it really only shows that they are wrong. If people want to be wrong, they are free to do so. You are doing it now, by trying to say it's right for them to be wrong, and the thing in which they are wrong is right for them and should be respected.
Wrong is wrong no matter what and is never respectable. People who are wrong need to be corrected, and true love desires correction. True love is another objective concept. I think you are trying to make excuses for sin, and there is no excuse.
The OP states logical explanation of the meaning of life. To say the meaning of life has not been found only means you don't believe it. The meaning of life announces itself and is plain to see. You are only trying to make excuses for sin.
You are completely ignoring the OP, and if you will not address the simple logic of God being the giver of life, so that the reality of life shows God is good because He gives life, therefore life means God is good, I'm going to end your input to this discussion.
You are going too far off wandering around in twisted logic ignoring the simple logic of the OP. All you are proving is that you have no good reason to believe anything you are saying, and I've heard pretty much enough of it. Get more in tune with discussing the points of the OP or I'm going to ban you. You are just repeating yourself and tiring me with extensive additions of words to say the same thing over and over and over in slightly different ways and none of it can be defined because you insist it cannot be defined. You are fast running out of time here. Discuss my points in the OP or be banned.
You say the Bible (showing disrespect toward God by calling it "the bible") can help clarify why God created us, and the meaning of life is not for us to know but is for Him only to know, but you give no Biblical support for your insistence that life does not mean God is good but rather you insist that nobody can really know what life means so they can just do whatever seems to them to be worth doing for whatever reason they feel like doing it as they wander around not knowing the meaning of life.
The meaning of life is indeed relative to the point of view of the one being questioned. If the one being questioned is wrong about the meaning of life, then it is relative that the truth opposes their interpretation or lack of interpretation of life's meaning.
Everybody will NOT give the same response to the meaning of life because they do not like the implications of life's meaning. They prefer to believe things contrary to the meaning of life because they are dying, going away from life, and do not like life's meaning so they will deny that life has meaning or they will invent a false meaning which suits them for the moment.
I see your viewpoint as entirely religious since you are repeatedly saying that meaning of life is subjective and objective meaning of life is not relative because it cannot be ascertained. The only reason people say life's meaning cannot be ascertained is that they do not want it to be ascertained, so they reject the concept of assured meaning of life which cannot be denied. Their denial of life's meaning only means that they deny life has meaning, it does not mean you cannot know the meaning of life. When people say you cannot know the meaning of life, all that really means is that THEY do not know the meaning of life and I can believe them when they say that because they are obviously rejecting life's meaning.
Let's cut to the chase and quit pretending to be sophisticated by a multitude of words.
You believe life's meaning is subjective to the feelings and opinions of each individual questioning life's meaning, and therefore life's meaning cannot really be known. I believe the meaning of life is obvious and simple as explained in the OP. Life means God is good, and if people disagree with that simple statement, it remains true regardless of those people's opinions, beliefs, or feelings about life.
Yes, of course some do not like the idea of life having meaning and a purpose, because that implies that their feelings do not determine the meaning of life or it's purpose. If life means something, that meaning applies to all living things or it is a fraudulent meaning. If the meaning of life applies to all living things, that meaning is objective and cannot be changed when living things do not like life or anything in life such as pain or suffering or oppression of evildoers.
I do not stand anywhere religiously, other than some habits of diet which I jokingly refer to as "religious". I drink grape juice, Welch's of course, and coffee black with a heaping spoonful of baking cocoa "religiously" as I believe the health benefits of those things are well established. In that bit of religious mockery, I hope it will keep my body going but in reality I know my body is going down in it's death. You might want to check out my debate discussion titled "Reality VS Religion", in which I support reality against religion.
Why don't you tell me your own answers to these questions?
I will say this, that the meaning of life must apply to all living things at all times or it is not valid. Many people here have implied meanings of life which do not apply to all living things at all times, so they cannot be valid for the meaning of life.
Many people here have implied meanings of life which do not apply to all living things at all times, so they cannot be valid for the meaning of life.
Well, my point was that there might not be meaning of life that applies to all living things at all times. You seem convinced otherwise, so I would love to know why. Who's to say that there is only one 'meaning' of life?
And I'll reiterate my earlier question: why must life have meaning? I didn't answer because I don't have a distinct answer to this question, but you seem to be approaching "The Meaning of Life" with a mindset that you'll find an answer, and in my mind, that's not a guarantee. If you'd like to share why you're so sure that there is a meaning to life, I'd love to listen.
I gave enough of my opinion in the OP. You have clearly stated that you do not have a distinct answer for the meaning of life. If you cannot give any answer, then the answer I proposed is better than your answer because gave an answer with reason to support it....life means God is good because He gives life so it must mean that as the giver of life He is good.
You ask "why must life have meaning". Well, if God created it then it must have meaning, and it must mean God is good. Now YOU give and answer to your question or I'm going to ban you. YOU TELL ME THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION OR YOU ARE BANNED...
Your question is "why must life have meaning". Give a clear answer....whether you say meaning is necessary or not....just do it. Speak your mind regarding your beliefs or I'm going to ban you. It seems all you want to do is harass.
It seems like you are only saying that you have no answer for the meaning of life. If you have an answer, please offer it. This is the last time I'm going to ask you.
