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The Roman Catholic Church -- MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS
REVELATION 17:01 .. then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me .. saying . . . come here .. .......... I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters 17:02 .. with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality .. and those who dwell on the earth were made .......... drunk with the wine of her immorality 17:03 .. and he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness .. and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast .. .......... full of blasphemous names .. having seven heads and ten horns 17:04 .. the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet .. and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls .. .......... having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality 17:05 .. and on her forehead a name was written .. a mystery . . . BABYLON THE GREAT .. .......... THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH 17:06 .. and I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the Saints .. and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus .. .......... when I saw her .. I wondered greatly
. audio file http://dadmansabode.com/b/27/271702.mp3 ... full context http://dadmansabode.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=737#p737 <><
Mother Theresa: “If in coming face to face with God we accept Him in our lives, then we are converting. We become a better Hindu, a better Muslim, a better Catholic, a better whatever we are .... What God is in your mind you must accept”
(from Mother Teresa: Her People and Her Work, by Desmond Doig, [Harper & Row, 1976, p.156]).
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“All is God—Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, etc., all have access to the same God.”
(12/4/89 Time Magazine Interview with Edward Desmond, pp. 11, 13)
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Jesus said to him . . . I am THE way .. and THE truth .. and THE life . . . > NO ONE comes to the father but through me < .... John 14:6
the Apostle Peter: There is salvation in ano one else .. for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved ... Acts 4:14
So Jesus said to them again . . . truly truly I say to you . . . I am the door of the sheep .. all who came before me are thieves and robbers .. but the sheep did not hear them .. I am the door .. if anyone enters through me .. he will be saved .. and will go in and out and find pasture .. the thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy . . . I came that they may have life .. and have it abundantly ... John 10:7-10
You are 100% correct! The catholic Church has done much harm when it comes to the notion that doing good works gets you to heaven. That is a complete lie of course but the world loves that mentality because in their eyes they are good people. For example forget about the fact they support killing unborn Babies (Babies God says he knows in the womb). They still think they are good people.
The Catholic Church just tells you to come to Churh each week and confess your sins to a Preist, and all is well.
Your sins or lack thereof do not get you into Heaven. Faith in Christ alone gets you to Heaven. There is no working your way to Heaven by so called being good. Man's goodness is like rags to God according to the Bible.
I hear all the time from Hindu's and other religions how being good is all that is needed. Not true because man's notion of goodness is laughable. Democrats condone harvesting late term Baby organs for sale and call themselves good.
Democrats now support allowing a late term Baby born alive from a botched abortion to die! That is man's goodness.
I feel that going to church/chapel doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a motor mechanic. The Roman Catholic faith has spawned paedophiles and lesbians on an industrial scale and whilst that in itself is an abomination, the greater crime was committed the Roman Catholic hierarchy who willfully covered up the heinous crimes of their priests and nuns. This automatically makes them culpable for the crimes of their clergy and guilty of their own crime of ''perverting'' the course of justice. Of course these self righteous self appointed representatives of some hypothetical God will never face justice. ''THE DEVIL LOOKS AFTER HIS OWN''.
"these self righteous self appointed representatives of some hypothetical God will never face justice" ... indeed, that is in this life for now .... this soon to emerge One World Religion will first get absorbed by antichrist and then destroyed by the return of Jesus Christ ........... There shall .. in the great tribulation period .. be poured out such manifestations of the wrath of God against Satan and sinners as man has never conceived .. the terrors of those days will surpass anything known in the earth before those days .. and shall never be known thereafter .. woe to those who choose .. by their rejection of Christ in the Gospel day .. to be left to that time . . . . . Rev 16:15 even in the great tribulation there is an advent hope held out to keep the remnant looking up .. before Christ’s first advent believers in the promises were inspired and kept by the expectation of his coming .. until the rapture of the Church .. his second coming is held out as the “blessed hope” .. In the great tribulation .. the one and only hope of relief will be his return in glory with the saints to cleanse the earth and to reign ...... gty.org
the wheat and the tares ... sheep and the goats / the false and the true .. the Bride and her Satanic counterfeit: the whore ..... and the ungodly stands there totally confused (typical)
"Christians fight among themselves" ?? ..... not all who claim to be christian are actual christian ... the Word of God (Bible) distinguishes the true and the fake ... as a matter of fact ... the greatest persecutor of true Christianity is false christianity
Mother Theresa: “If the individual thinks and believes that his or her way is the only way to God, then that is their way of salvation”
(pp. 74-75). (Mark Michael Zima, Mother Teresa: The Case for the Cause)
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Mother Teresa taking care of a dying Hindu priest.: “She nursed him with her own hands and helped him to die reconciled with his own gods.”
The April 7-13, 1990, issue of Radio Times
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How discouraging and misleading it is to hear professing Christians speak of Mother Teresa as though she was the epitome of what a Christian should be.
Though Mother Teresa was compassionate, she clearly was not Biblically sound. Mother Teresa did NOT promote God's BIBLICAL truth.
There have always been people like you who want to obscure God's word. Some of those people entrenched in the Roman Catholic Church used fraudulent changed Bibles to compose fake Bibles. God always kept His word pure and preserved. Through the blood of martyrs who opposed the Catholic church and their own governments who tried to stop the translation as they obeyed God to bring His word into English, we have His word in the King James Bible. Vaticanus is the Catholic manuscripts which guide all modern fake imposter Bibles today....hundreds of different versions, all of them the work of man and none of them the Word of God.
There have always been people like you who want to obscure God's word.
Of course there's people who aren't gonna believe your bullshit.
Some of those people entrenched in the Roman Catholic Church used fraudulent changed Bibles to compose fake Bibles.
No. The Catholic Church didn't take other bibles and make new ones. They took all the books of the bible and MADE the bible. The bible didnt exist until the Catholic Church made it. The bible YOU read no matter if it's king James or NIV ect is a Catholic invention.
God always kept His word pure and preserved.
Sure he did. That's alot of faith to have in a book that was rewritten like 400 times and printed by hand thousands of other times. Any one of the thousands of people who worked on the bible could've changed any words or passages and you just believe they didnt. You believe thousands of people printing books by hands never made a mistake or added things to it.
Through the blood of martyrs who opposed the Catholic church and their own governments who tried to stop the translation as they obeyed God to bring His word into English, we have His word in the King James Bible. Vaticanus is the Catholic manuscripts which guide all modern fake imposter Bibles today....hundreds of different versions, all of them the work of man and none of them the Word of God.
The king James is based off the Catholic churches bible. Again, the bible as it is constructed with the old and new testaments is a Catholic invention.
Again, you are making statements about Christianity and the Bible based on either uneducated or purposefully misleading statements of false teachings.
Let me try to educate you a little in Christian history. When you make statements about Christianity or the Bible, you should know what you are talking about. The word of God is His word, and He protects it from being changed. People who have problems with God have tried to change it throughout most of history. In the Old Testament, the original writings were protected by being kept by the Levites. When the Jews forsook their common sense and rebelled, they lost their ability to protect the treasures God gave them, but God still used people to preserve His word. Those people protected God's written word in obedience to God which often they paid for with their blood. There has always been a line of people chosen by God to keep His word pure and undefiled by corruption of intentional or unintentional error being inserted. All modern versions allow corrupted manuscripts to guide their editing in translation. The NIV is not the word of God, it was made as a parody. One of the editors was a known lesbian, and she made sure to insert changes to soften or remove the absolute position of the Bible against homosexuality.
The Catholic church fought against the Bible being authorized by the King of England. That translation was also opposed by Calvinists, with John Calvin being the dictator of that protestant sect, and opposed by the bishops of the Church of England as well as opposed by the Catholic church. Tyndale, who was working on the translation before the King authorized and commanded the work to be done, was working on the translation as his life passion believing God wanted him to do it. The Roman Catholic Church was brutal in persecution of "heretics" like Tyndale, and he knew his life was in constant danger of treachery from any of the opposing groups when the Protestant Reformation was shaking the foundations of the Catholic church. He was betrayed and given over to murderers who burned him at the stake as a heretic. As he was being engulfed in the flames, it was reported that flames came out of his mouth as he loudly prayed "LORD, OPEN THE KINGS EYES". The King of England sat in judgement hearing all the opposing groups trying to explain why the King of England should not authorize an English translation of the Bible, and God answered Tyndale's prayer and the King rejected the advice of those who opposed his authorization of an English translation of the Bible.+-
A little about Tyndale.
William Tyndale
William TyndaleWilliam Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language. Tyndale was a true scholar and a genius, so fluent in eight languages that it was said one would think any one of them to be his native tongue. He is frequently referred to as the “Architect of the English Language”, (even more so than William Shakespeare) as so many of the phrases Tyndale coined are still in our language today.
In the early days of the church, before the heretical Roman Catholic church was founded by Constantine as he declared himself to be a Christian and ended overt government persecution of Christians in an attempt to consolidate the crumbling Roman Empire, there were people trying to change the Bible the same as they are trying today.
Any version of the Bible which omits Acts 8:37, or "Through His blood," in Col. 1:14, evidently has for its foundation a corrupted manuscript (and this includes virtually if not completely all modern books which claim to be Bibles....last I heart there was something like 200 different versions) This corruption can be traced to 200 A.D., when there lived one of the world's foremost theologians whose name was Origen. Being a TEXTUAL CRITIC, he is supposed to have corrected numerous portions of the sacred manuscripts. Evidence to the contrary shows that he changed them to agree with his own human philosophy of mystical and allegorical ideas. Thus certain original MSS. became corrupt and it is evidently from this source the revised Bibles of this generation have come. Read pages 900-902, Vol. 16, 1936 edition Encyclopedia Britannica and you will see that Origen taught the "LOGOS" is "KTISMA," meaning the Lord Jesus Christ is a created being. Thus, he could easily omit Acts 8:37 and other texts which testify to Christ's deity.
If you want to be right in the things you say, you need to know what you are talking about. You are starting from presumptions you have heard and accepted without researching or validating their claims. Your statement insisting the King James Bible is based of the Catholic churches bible is completely ignorant of history. The Catholic Church did everything it could to keep the word of God from being translated into common language, as that church is built upon dogmas not taught by the Bible. The Catholic Church ruled the dark ages by maintaining government sanctioned authority. English translations of the Bible came out of the Protestant Reformation, with men like Martin Luther being tortured to death for believing the Bible and exposing it in the common language of their day. Influences of corrupt insertions and changes in scripture had their ways of creeping in through reformers such as Luther and Calvin, but there has always been a preserved and pure line and God has always used men to keep His word on record for men. We have His word in English today as the King James Bible.
The faith of God is reality, not religion. I deal in facts, objective truth, knowing God. You can know, but it will cost you your life........and God promises a better life far beyond anything good you can imagine in His Kingdom of Heaven if you will receive the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord....and He will permanently set you free from the allure of marijuana as He has done for me if you will trust and believe Him.
The word of God is His word, and He protects it from being changed.
where does it say he does that? In the bible. It says he protects the bible from being changed in the bible. That verse that says that couldve been added 400 years after jesus died for all you know.
When the Jews forsook their common sense and rebelled, they lost their ability to protect the treasures God gave them, but God still used people to preserve His word. Those people protected God's written word in obedience to God which often they paid for with their blood. There has always been a line of people chosen by God to keep His word pure and undefiled by corruption of intentional or unintentional error being inserted. All modern versions allow corrupted manuscripts to guide their editing in translation. The NIV is not the word of God, it was made as a parody. One of the editors was a known lesbian, and she made sure to insert changes to soften or remove the absolute position of the Bible against homosexuality.
So which is it? Is it protected from changes or can people change it? You start out saying god ordains people to protect his word from any changes, then you say the NIV is a changed version of the bible. So people can clearly take the bible and alter it and then reproduce it. So if people could do it when the NIV came out why couldnt they do it at any point in history before that? The answer: they absolutely couldve, and did.
The Catholic church fought against the Bible being authorized by the King of England. That translation was also opposed by Calvinists, with John Calvin being the dictator of that protestant sect, and opposed by the bishops of the Church of England as well as opposed by the Catholic church. Tyndale, who was working on the translation before the King authorized and commanded the work to be done, was working on the translation as his life passion believing God wanted him to do it.
Translations will ALWAYS have errors. You cannot perfectly translate arabic and aramean to english. It cant be done. Its impossible. So any english bible you have ever read does contain errors and differences from the original manuscript. Which we dont even have so you couldnt even prove that no changes have been made.
Any version of the Bible which omits Acts 8:37, or "Through His blood," in Col. 1:14, evidently has for its foundation a corrupted manuscript (and this includes virtually if not completely all modern books which claim to be Bibles....last I heart there was something like 200 different versions)
okay so the bible CAN be changed. I thought god protects it?
If you want to be right in the things you say, you need to know what you are talking about. You are starting from presumptions you have heard and accepted without researching or validating their claims. Your statement insisting the King James Bible is based of the Catholic churches bible is completely ignorant of history
"Also, we do know that there were many books of supposed prophets
> floating around up until 312 CE when the Council of Nicea decided
> which books were scripture and which ones were burned. Thanks to
> the notorious habit of early Christian leaders of destroying
> books/scrolls, we may never know what doctrine existed before the
> Council of Nicea."
-http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
The first bible ever was put together at the council of nicea. This is the council where they decided what was canon and what was not. They burned alot of the rejected scripture so how could you know that what existed before this?
The council of Nicea was not the authority on God's word. The Bible was the Bible before council of Nicea declared themselves to be God's authority.
When a serious student of history takes note of the countries, persons, and books used by early Christians, he can form a sphere of information which will enable him to accurately judge the books which were accepted as Scripture. Ignatius of Antioch, who was martyred about 116, knew our New Testament for he knew the Epistles of Paul. Matthew and John were his favorite gospels. Polycarp of Smyrna (69-155 A.D.). had the book of Matthew, Paul's Epistles, I John, and possibly the book of Acts. The didache (120 A.D.) uses Matthew and Luke with most of the other N.T. books. Melito of Sardis (2nd century) quotes from all the N.T. books but James, Jude, II John, and III John. Lucian of Antioch was martyred in 312. He had a version of the N.T. with all books but II Peter, II & III John, and Jude. Clement of Alexandria (155-215) used all the N.T. books but James, II Peter, and III John. Others as Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian, Marcion the Gnostic, Cyril, Tatian, and many other early figures of Church history give abundant proof that the N.T. as we have it today was generally accepted among all areas. (See H.C. Thiessen, "Introduction To The New Testament," Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.; Grand Rapids, 1962, pp.6-24).
Some have made very dubious statements concerning the formation of the canon. Grey gives an account that reaches beyond all imagination: "Some of the later enemies of the faith have tried to prove that we Christians did not get our Bible till the fourth century. They have said there was a church council about that time in the city of Nice, France, one of whose purposes was to make a Bible. There had been many books floating around, claiming to be inspired, and nobody knew which were and which were not inspired. Copies of all these books were collected at the time of this council and placed under the communion table in the church. then the bishops gathered around the table and prayed that in some way the inspired books might be indicated from the uninspired, and as they prayed, a number of the books were supernaturally raised from underneath the table and placed on top of it." (See Grey, pp.99-100). Thiessen in his introduction to the N.T. gives historical proof that these early councils actually had nothing to do with forming a canon. The earliest council which can be accepted is that of 397 and 419. (op. cit. pp. 25-26). This shows the N.T. had been used nearly 300 years before these "Johnny-come-lately" councils claimed to have put the Bible together.
When a presumptuous individual claims for his church the exclusive authority for making the N.T. Canon, you can take a long laugh on firm ground at the folly of ignorance.
You are quoting people who do not believe the Bible to be God's word. There were purposeful attempts to change the Bible every time God's chosen men had it written down, and the Council of Nicea was a fraudulent attempt of the Catholic church to establish itself as authoritative over all Christian teaching. The Latin Vulgate was a corruption of God's Word.
IV. Origen (184-254 A.D.)
A. Origen was a disciple of Clement of Alexandria.
B. He held to the same doctrine as Clement, plus he taught baptism was necessary for babies to gain salvation.
C. Origen stated, "The Scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written." (Ibid. p. 192).
D. Dr. Wilkinson stated, "When we come to Origen, we speak the name of him who did the most of all to create and give direction to the forces of apostasy down through the centuries." (Ibid.).
E. Origen was one of the first textual critics. His textual work in both the N.T. and the O.T. (the "Hexapla") was the basis for two of the most corrupt manuscripts used by the Roman Catholic Church. (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus).
F. Origen developed a method of Biblical interpretation which is called "allegorization". Origen believed the Bible was only a set of stories that illustrate truth, but not literal facts. He believed Christ to be created and subordinate to the Father (the same as Jehovah's Witnesses), the pre-existence of the soul before birth (the same as the Mormons), and the final restoration of all spirits (Universal Salvation). (see Dr. Earle Cairns "Christianity Through The Centuries", Zondervan Publishing House, p. 122).
V. Eusebius (260-340 A.D.)
A. He was trained at Origen's school in Alexandria.
B. Eusebius was the editor of two Greek manuscripts (mss.) named Vaticanus and Sinaiticus. These two mss. were discredited and abandoned by early Christians as being corrupt. ("Which Bible?" p. 139,143).
These are Roman Catholic mss. and were not used by Protestant Christians until 1881. These two mss. are the basis for Roman Catholic Bibles and every major English translation of the Bible since 1901. These mss. were not the ones used for the King James Bible.
C. Eusebius was Roman Catholic in his doctrine (see his book, "Ecclesiastical History", Vols. 1-5).
D. He was commissioned by Emperor Constantine to make 50 copies of Scripture for the Roman church. Eusebius copied the Gnostic Scriptures and Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.
VI. Jerome (340-420 A.D.)
A. Like Eusebius, Jerome was Roman Catholic in doctrine.
B. Jerome translated the Greek mss. of Vaticanus and Sinaiticus into Latin (called Jerome's Latin Vulgate). This was the official Bible of the Roman Catholic Church.
You're being fed a disinformation view of history sanctioned by the Catholic Church which has always brutally tortured and killed real Christians. The Council of Nicea was a Catholic concoction feigning itself to be authoritative. Jesus said "I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." He didn't need any Councils to do it. He did it by His word, and His word was circulated and protected by His true disciples. There has always been a line of preservation on a trail of the blood of martyrs who obeyed God in keeping His word. The Council of Nicea was an orchestrated attempt to constrain Christians to conform with government dictates. The Latin Vulgate was made from corrupt manuscripts, a mimicry of the cannon of the Bible which was already known among true Christians who would not conform to the Catholicism of Constantine. The dark dogmas of Catholicism became progressively mysterious and oppressive as they enslaved people in a religion in which they had to buy favor from God.
Im not saying i believe in the catholic church. from an objective view of history we know the catholic church had tremendous influence on what became canon in the bible. You cant just deny that the catholic church had any effect on the christian faith as a whole. Theres a good chunk of history where the catholic church was the ONLY church there was.
The Books of the Bible were in circulation among Christians from the time they were written. The books of the New Testament were authenticated by the Apostles. The apostles made sure to keep it pure, and they chose their successors in fear of God carefully in spite of all persecutions of the Jews and the Roman Government. Christians knew what the Bible was before the Council of Nicea declared itself to be the judge of the cannon of scripture. That government sponsored group was not authorized by God as were the apostles. They only put themselves on a pedestal for power. God kept His word for us through the hands of martyrs who preserved and passed it along at the cost of their own life's blood. The Council of Nicea was just a bunch of fat cats trying to take credit for things they did not earn or have any right to claim.
The dark ages of Catholicism's rule did everything it could to keep the word of God from being translated into the common language. The word of God is truth, and the truth will set you free. Catholicism depends on keeping the truth in the dark, hidden in a latin translation which nobody but the priests could understand.
The blood of Protestant martyrs brought the word of God into light which dispelled the dark age of Catholicism's iron fisted rule as the Roman Empire dwindled and fell.
The Christian faith comes from God through Jesus Christ and He commissioned twelve men for the foundation of His church and the completion of His word for mankind. That faith has not changed since the time when the apostles realized that Jesus is God who is everything He claimed as He proved it all by His bodily resurrection when death could not hold Him in the ground. No Council of Nicea or any such religious or government sponsored approving group was needed, and they do NOT deserve any credit for the Bible we have today.
Doesn't the truth sound like common sense? The apostles and disciples who were eyewitnesses of the ministry and work of the Lord Jesus Christ and His resurrection passed their faith along, and men of God today will STILL give themselves over as martyrs (not suicidal murderous devils like muslims) in love of God, obeying Him to reach out to lost souls, longing for all men everywhere to know His love.
Sure the Catholic Church has had effect on what people think is "Christian"...and it's all pagan anti-Christ self-serving for the Catholic Church.
Even in the early days of the church in the 1st century, religious and government organizations had ulterior motives in making writings which contradicted the Apostles, and editing the government sponsored historical record as much as possible to maintain power by keeping as many people as possible from NOT believing the Bible.......because they are the same as today, desperate in need of cover for their CORRUPTION!!! True Christians do not tolerate corruption. They crucified the LORD because He rebuked them for their CORRUPTIONS!
Sinners who love their sin HATE the Bible and today try to change it with hundreds of "versions" which are really PERversions of God's word, and they all have Catholic roots
The Books of the Bible were in circulation among Christians from the time they were written. The books of the New Testament were authenticated by the Apostles. The apostles made sure to keep it pure, and they chose their successors in fear of God carefully in spite of all persecutions of the Jews and the Roman Government
Right the BOOKs of the bible. they were all just separate scattered gospels before some entity decided to pick and choose which were canon and which were not. And the apostles made sure that every single copy of every gospel remained unchanged? Even after they all died and the bible continued to be replicated and copied?
Christians knew what the Bible was before the Council of Nicea declared itself to be the judge of the cannon of scripture.
They knew the books of the bible. They did not know the bible. They may have read matthew, mark, luke, and john but those 4 together werent known as the "new testament" until after the catholic church provided that name.
That government sponsored group was not authorized by God as were the apostles. They only put themselves on a pedestal for power. God kept His word for us through the hands of martyrs who preserved and passed it along at the cost of their own life's blood. The Council of Nicea was just a bunch of fat cats trying to take credit for things they did not earn or have any right to claim
Okay thats great and all but we cant exactly prove thats what happened as god isnt around for questioning. So youre just asserting that the early christians made sure nothing was changed. You havent actually proven that. To prove that youd have to show how the original manuscript and modern bibles are identical. But you dont have the original manuscripts because apparently the apostles didnt do such a good job preserving documents. So im going to go with the history we can actually prove happened which is all recorded by the catholic church.
The Christian faith comes from God through Jesus Christ and He commissioned twelve men for the foundation of His church and the completion of His word for mankind. That faith has not changed since the time when the apostles realized that Jesus is God who is everything He claimed as He proved it all by His bodily resurrection when death could not hold Him in the ground. No Council of Nicea or any such religious or government sponsored approving group was needed, and they do NOT deserve any credit for the Bible we have today.
Did the council of nicea write the bible? No. Did they construct the bible? Yes. The entire point of the council of nicea was that there were so many gospels floating around from both old and new testament that the church felt the need to meet and establish what was canon and what wasnt. The result was the formation of the bible as we know it today. They didnt change anything in the books and they didnt write them they just took the pre existing books and put them together in order. We know for a fact that this happened.
The apostles and disciples who were eyewitnesses of the ministry and work of the Lord Jesus Christ and His resurrection passed their faith along, and men of God today will STILL give themselves over as martyrs (not suicidal murderous devils like muslims) in love of God, obeying Him to reach out to lost souls, longing for all men everywhere to know His love.
Okay it claims they were eyewitnesses but we cant confirm that. And them being eyewitnesses means absolutely nothing to me as a non-eyewitness. Im just supposed to believe some book that some guy 2000 years ago wrote where he swears he saw a dude walk on water. Thats hardly convincing. Also the veracity of ones beliefs is no testament to the truth of the beliefs that person has.
Sure the Catholic Church has had effect on what people think is "Christian"...and it's all pagan anti-Christ self-serving for the Catholic Church.
Okay so you admit they did have an effect.
Even in the early days of the church in the 1st century, religious and government organizations had ulterior motives in making writings which contradicted the Apostles, and editing the government sponsored historical record as much as possible to maintain power by keeping as many people as possible from NOT believing the Bible.......because they are the same as today, desperate in need of cover for their CORRUPTION!!! True Christians do not tolerate corruption. They crucified the LORD because He rebuked them for their CORRUPTIONS!
That makes no sense. Why would they get involved in running a religion but NOT want people to believe it? The whole point of religion is to make as many people believe it as possible. They started charging people money for indulgences. Wouldnt they want as many people believing the religion as possible to increase their haul?
Sinners who love their sin HATE the Bible and today try to change it with hundreds of "versions" which are really PERversions of God's word, and they all have Catholic roots
Okay so people can and do change the bible. Then why did you claim people cant? They clearly can do it and are doing it today so you admit. Well if they did it then why couldnt they do it 1000 years ago? Couldnt they have changed it then and now 1000 years down the line youre following a false bible?
When somebody changes the Bible, it is no longer God's word but is changed into the words of whoever changed the words.
Of course people can change the wording around and say it's the Bible. You have to know the Author of the Bible, God, to understand His word and discern the deceptions inserted by people who change God's word like the NIV editors did.
Try to look at it as if you were actually one of Jesus's disciples before He was crucified. When He was arrested for trial leading to crucifixion, all of his disciples turned and ran in fear. They all lost faith in Him as they had hoped He would establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. He had told them that he would be killed, and that he would allow himself to be executed. They understood this, but they did not understand what he was saying when he told them many times that he would rise from the dead.
After He was crucified and entombed, a guard of Roman soldiers was placed at his tomb which was sealed with the seal of Rome. If the soldiers failed to keep guard, the penalty was supposed to be death. The massive stone which was the sealed door of the tomb was rolled over the entrance of the tomb and fell into a slot which held it firmly leaning in place. Nobody could move the stone easily even if there was not Roman soldiers on guard. After an angel rolled the stone away to show the Lord had risen from the dead, the soldiers were paid large sums of money to say they had fallen asleep and the disciples had stolen the body away while they slept.
Jesus later appeared alive to his disciples, inviting doubting Thomas to put his finger into the nail holes in his hands, and to thrust his had into Jesus' side where the Roman spear had pierced his heart after He had died on the cross.
All of the disciples were tortured and executed for refusing to renounce their assertion that Jesus lives. The things they had witnessed were so powerful they had to be recorded and preserved for future generations. The people who gave their lives for the good news of the resurrection of Jesus Christ to be spread throughout the world made sure to keep and preserve the writings sanctioned by God given by the apostles chosen by Christ Himself. Non-believers have always tried to change the Word, and always will...but true believers will always give their lives in keeping with the gospel of God which promises eternal life to all who will repent of their sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
You can see the firm testimony of the eyewitnesses throughout the Bible.......the assertions the men chosen by God to give His word gave that they were telling the truth in obedience to God. If you don't want to believe them you don't have to. I didn't believe until I realized the logic of it all, that I was a sinner who had broken God's law and did not deserve to live but rather deserved whatever punishment God saw fit to execute me in....and that realization put me in fear of God knowing I was in danger of the fire of Hell. I believed on the Lord in His resurrection and received Him as my Savior. Suddenly the Bible came to life, the words were jumping off the pages and I understood things easily which had been confounding before...knowing eternal life, knowing God, knowing I was forgiven and had a new start as a new creation in Jesus Christ who had now become my life as I realized that He took my death and geve me His life, eternal life.
The line of Jesus's disciples is a trail of blood which could not be controlled or interrupted by the Council of Nicea or the Catholic church, and the preservation of God's word is guided by God Himself as He knows exactly what He said, why He said it, and why He gave it to us so we can know Him personally without doubt in reality as He is God and He is able to make Himself known to YOU......BUT HE CAN"T IF YOU REFUSE TO BELIEVE!!!! THAT IS YOUR CHOICE, AND IT'S A BAD IDEA TO REJECT THE LOVE OF GOD SHOWN FOR YOU IN THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.
I hope you will quit believing iiars and accept the truth and know God's offer of peace to give you eternal life in Jesus Christ. Because I have this hope for you, it's hard for me to just walk away and let you remain in your pride defying God...though you have given me easily a hundred reasons why I would be justified to simply ignore you and never talk to you again. Don't push God to that point, repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved from Hell.
"Also, we do know that there were many books of supposed prophets
> floating around up until 312 CE when the Council of Nicea decided
> which books were scripture and which ones were burned. Thanks to
> the notorious habit of early Christian leaders of destroying
> books/scrolls, we may never know what doctrine existed before the
> Council of Nicea."
This kind of statement proves one thing: whoever said it did not know God personally so they did not have the ability to know the difference between His word and fake versions. The statement was made by somebody who would have been esteemed then like Richard Dawkins is esteemed today......a lot of education and pompous pretense of authority when they don't really know what they are talking about and all they really know is that they believe there is no objective truth. Jesus Christ IS the truth, and the objective authority over all of Creation and every creature in it because He made it all because He is good and delights to give life and to show mercy!.
It is written all through the Bible that it's God's word and He keeps it pure and unchanged and it will remain forever as it is in Heaven. He gave us His word because He wants us to know and understand Him. It's His love letter to mankind, appealing for all people to come into arbitration with Him to accept His judgements and be pardoned, to be forgiven, to receive His peace....God is offering a peace agreement to all of mankind, and the full record of His offer and the consequences of accepting or rejecting His offer is the Bible. It's all about Jesus Christ, from cover to cover, from beginning to end.....the things that do not sound like they are directly pointing to Jesus are indeed lessons leading us to know Jesus Christ. It all points to Him, and he deserves all of the honor and glory as the Creator of all.
God guided His word in to be preserved in English for the English speaking world. We do not have to understand ancient languages to know God and know His word. He speaks to people in their own language as that is how they understand.
There may not be an accurate version in every language, but there certainly is one in English and God made sure to bring it forward shortly before English became the closest thing to a universal language since before the Tower of Babel.
It came through the hands of martyrs who obeyed God do translate it. No other English book which claims to be a Bible has such a history. All modern versions are nothing but Hollywood type productions designed to promote their editors and make money.
The key in translation was the authority given by God, and the personal knowledge of God amongst most or all of the translators. If you don't believe God, you won't accept His word in any language so the whole argument in your mouth is a mute point and there's no point in arguing with you when you think your word is as good or better than God's.
I could easily show in the Bible where it clearly says God's word is preserved and protected from even the tiniest error in any form or spelling or punctuation, but since you will just say "you don't know when that was put in there, so it doesn't matter", I won't bother to show you. You do all you can to block things out, so why should I think it's worth my time to show you what you say you cannot see?
So you went back to being a dope addict? Did you quit for a few days because the market dried up, or did you quit because your funds dried up, or did you quit because you wanted to feel like you are not a complete slave to the buzz?
I was away for the weekend because i have a life outside of talking to religious goons on the internet.
If i wrote a book and made up a story about a magical unicorn who lives in the sky and i wrote in the book "everything in this book is true and protected from any changes". Would you believe it? You just accept when a book tells you that what the book says is true?
would you allow yourself to be beaten, tortured, and even executed in torture like burned at the stake or pulled to pieces by horses tied to your hands and feet, when to stop the torture you would only have to renounce your unicorn story and say it is a fable?
People who know the Bible is God's word will not stop trying to tell others of God's love proven in the gift of His Son who died for all of us and rose from the dead to be the justifier of all who believe on Him so we can have eternal life now and forever and know it without doubt......, and persecution of true Biblicist Christians continues at different places and times around the world today as it was in the early days of the church......and that persecution is coming to America where the Bible is being outlawed as "hate speech" for what is says about the evils of sodomites and what it says about the reality of God's wrath against sin proven in the fire of Hell.
No i would never allow myself to be tortured over ideas. Id renounce evolution in a second if it meant i dont get tortured. But i wouldnt really believe it i would just be saying it to get the people torturing me to stop.
And people who know science and reason and logic will continue to debunk your ideas and claims at every turn.
The bible is not outlawed and it is not considered hate speech. The bible supports some forms of hate speech but nobody is claiming the bible is in and of itself hate speech.
I will not renounce my Savior. I'm crucified with Him, yet I live...but it's not me anymore, but Him living in me....I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. I carry my cross and follow Him, as He went through my death and now owns me in life. He bought me with His life's blood, I'm bought and paid for in full, forgiven, and I have eternal life now.
The only thing you are debunking in reality is the idea that you are good enough to live...but you can't ' admit it I guess. That's pride, and God is against it...you are making a fatal mistake.....And I'm probably a lot better read and knowledgeable in any kind of science than you are. Pot heads think they know everything until they are high and start having haunting thoughts about their uncertainty in death.
Physics, math, biology, chemistry, mechanics.......it has always been easy stuff for me, easy to understand, easy to read, and a great pleasure for me as I deeply appreciate nature which is better described as Creation. It's a hobby for me to understand how things work, things made by God or things people have invented......though I'm not a fan of computer science. Computers is one thing I have successfully avoided learning much about...though I do like reading or hearing about the amazing things they are doing with computerized technology......some cool and a lot frightening except for that I know I'm going to heaven and don't have to fear big brother in any way, even if a new Hitler arises before I go to be with the Lord and I have to go through the gas chambers of the New World Order.
Bullshit you know anything about science. Anyone can claim to be an expert when they refuse to prove it. We could easily test who is more versed in the sciences but you won't even entertain the idea of actually debating.
You have a life? Dying is a life? you can keep it, your style of dying is quite repulsive......the stench of your foul mouth is fit for flies and I've shaken the dust off of my feet and walked away...the cloud of dust making a bit of a smokescreen to keep your flies from following me.
You are 100% correct! The catholic Church has done much harm when it comes to the notion that doing good works gets you to heaven. That is a complete lie of course but the world loves that mentality because in their eyes they are good people. For example forget about the fact they support killing unborn Babies (Babies God says he knows in the womb). They still think they are good people.
The Catholic Church just tells you to come to Churh each week and confess your sins to a Preist, and all is well.
Your sins or lack thereof do not get you into Heaven. Faith in Christ alone gets you to Heaven. There is no working your way to Heaven by so called being good. Man's goodness is like rags to God according to the Bible.
I hear all the time from Hindu's and other religions how being good is all that is needed. Not true because man's notion of goodness is laughable. Democrats condone harvesting late term Baby organs for sale and call themselves good.
Democrats now support allowing a late term Baby born alive from a botched abortion to die! That is man's goodness.
"Democrats condone harvesting late term Baby organs for sale" .... at least you observe and admit the obvious ... other than that ... maybe we should harvest your body parts .. that would be a good thing right ?
"when you die" ... you mean after you're murdered .. right ? .... btw cartman .... this thread is not about your lovely communion cup of abortion .... you are not qualified for this discussion .... sorry, start your own thread
This is so rediculous that people take a book that was written and translated hundreds of years ago by semetic people in a world that was so totally abstract from modern day, so seriously as word of the creator. I guess the team with the written law wins over all those others word of mouth fairy tales?
I think it is the mother of harlots and abominations. Jesus hung out with a prostitute. No offense to prostitutes but that's kind of weird for the Son of God, right? Now I know what Christians are gonna say, "Christ was just to everybody" and that bull, but I believe that Jesus had intimate relationships with Mary Magdalene or else he wouldn't have had her so close with him.
I'm stating the truth. If you actually read the Bible, you'll see what I'm saying is true. Every argument that I have argued over the Christian religion is backed up by the Bible. I don't understand why you're trying to glorify your religion because let's face it, what has God done for you recently?
I'm on my second cover to cover Bible reading this year, completed chapter 12 of Ezekiel today. Your arguments claiming to be Biblically supported are twisted and not Biblical.
I do not practice religion, I live in reality. You are trying to glorify your own big mouth religiously, and you don't know what you are doing or you would seek God's mercy to be saved from Hell.
Not Biblical? Er was a man in the Bible. He died because Yahweh killed him. This was because he was wicked. Fair enough. But his brother, Onan, was forced to take Er's widow as his own wife and was to sire a child with her.
"Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also." (Genesis 38:8-10)
How was that wicked? There are tons of other stories of God putting people to death for no reason.
He created people to be curious. And yet, he turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for being curious and looking back.
"By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. Thus, he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." (Genesis 19:23-26).
God allows people time they do not deserve. At any moment God decides to end a person's time and execute the death penalty, that person deserves it. The only people who God holds innocent are those who never reached accountability by being able to understand their guilt and need of God's mercy. Many if not all mentally handicapped fit in this, and all babies from the moment of conception who we all know are innocent as they had no choice in being conceived and they had no time to understand God's righteousness......so they will always know His mercy and be with Him in Heaven.
You are not innocent. Your death is justice, you deserve it the same as me.
God did not create people to be curious, He created them for Himself to enjoy. Being curious so know evil brings death and that death is deserved. You are tying to blame God for your faults when only God can fix you.
What exactly did we do to not deserve life? Apparently, we are guilty of the sins our (nonexistent) ancestors committed. The Catholic Church contradicts itself very much. People who are good and do good their entire life may be put in Hell.
You are trying to avoid the fact that God has the right to end your life now without your approval and He owes you no explanation for justice. He might end your life today, or take someone you love more than your own life, and it would not be unfair.
Give me one example that God has done something. He can't. He doesn't exist. All of the points you argue are pointless. You have absolutely no evidence that God exists.
Not really. In the story of Onan, it never stated why Onan was killed. Onan was killed after he spilled semen on the floor.
In the story of Lot's wife, it is just plain injustice. God created humans the way they are. He created us to be curious. Because Lot's wife was curious, she was turned into a pillar of salt. That is cruel because she's not dead. She's probably a piece of salt under the ground somewhere in the Middle East.
When Satan tempted Jesus, trying to get Jesus to sin, Satan backed up his arguments with the Bible. Everything Satan said and suggested for Jesus was backed up by the Bible. Just because you can find a few words in the Bible to match what you are saying does not mean you are telling the truth about what the Bible says. When you pull out a few words in one place and ignore words which contradict your evil twisting of the Bible, you are just being a devil, devious, deceitful, and doing nothing to help yourself or to help anybody else because you want to believe lies and you want others to believe lies.....and if you keep it up until your death is finalized, you will receive greater than normal condemnation in Hell for being a false teacher and encouraging others to defy God and end up in Hell themselves. You play, you pay.
