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Debate Info

22
46
Absolutely! Not at all!
Debate Score:68
Arguments:32
Total Votes:87
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 Absolutely! (10)
 
 Not at all! (18)

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stan701(67) pic



The Treaty of Versailles was justified. (S3-07 & S3-08)

At the end of WWI, Germany signed an armistice with the Allies and hoped that the new Weimar government would be looked on favorably. However, the Treaty presented to them shocked the Germans and they were left with two options - sign the Treaty of Versailles, or risk a naval blockade that would lead to an eventual invasion. Was the war guilt clause justified, i.e. was Germany responsible for causing WWI? The fairness of the terms of the Treaty hinges on this core issue! 

 

Absolutely!

Side Score: 22
VS.

Not at all!

Side Score: 46
4 points

FRANCE

Germany was the one who supported Austria-Hungary and started the war. We sent 8,410,000 soldiers to war and after the war, 1,737,000 were dead, 4,126,000 were wounded, and 537,000 went missing. Our manpower decreased drastically due to the war. Lorraine and Alsace were also taken away from us, so we think that giving our land back to us is only fair.

Side: Absolutely!
2 points

France managed to get their revenge on the Germans. Also many french soldiers had died in the war and even more wounded

Side: Absolutely!
bghw(1) Clarified
1 point

1,357,800 soldiers from France's army died - not 1,737,000

Side: Absolutely!
TJQ_SST(4) Disputed
1 point

In 1934 the official German war history listed 2,037,000 military dead. Confirmed dead from all causes 1,936,897 (Army 1,900,876, Navy 34,836, Colonial troops 1,185); wounded 4,215,662; prisoners and missing 974,977 of which an estimated 100,000 were presumed dead.

United States War Dept. figures for German casualties are: Total mobilized force 11,000,000; Total casualties 7,142,558 (including Killed and died 1,773,700; wounded 4,216,058; Prisoners and missing 1,152,800)

Germany also lost a lot of soldiers, in fact more than the number of soldiers you lost

Side: Not at all!
1 point

By imposting the Treaty of Versailles unfairly, a lot of people in Germany died due to the bad economy. The Treaty of Versailles had a long damaging effect on Germany, while France was able to build itself up quickly. This also triggered WW2, which led to more deaths and resulting in France to be invaded again. So is it worth it? No! Before you state that you got invaded again in WW2, remember that if the Treaty of Versailles was not so harsh on Germany, Germany would not have caused WW2 and invade France again. The Treaty of Versailles was supposed to be justified, not pushing all the responsibilities to them. Therefore, the Treaty of Versallies was notjustified.

Side: Not at all!

The Krauts deserved everything that they got in 1919. Had they one they would have been much more harsh to the allies had they won. I know this is a class debate, sorrhy to barge in but I couldn't let this go unsaid.

Side: Absolutely!
TaufiqRoz(5) Disputed
3 points

But the fact is, they lost. Making an unfair treaty because that's what someone else would have done to you doesn't make it justified. They are then stooping to the level of unfairness as Germany regardless of whether Germany would have done the same or not. It is still neither justified nor fair.

Side: Not at all!
stan701(67) Clarified
1 point

interesting argument Taufiq. But is it always fair in a war? Winners dictate History

Side: Absolutely!
1 point

What the Treaty Of Versailles should have ensured was justice, not revenge. The Treaty of Versailles was supposed to ensure that Germany was responsible for the war, but not by forcing them to pay $6.6 billion, take away a lot of their land, greatly weakening their military etc. The argument is whether the Treaty of Versailles was JUSTIFIED, not whether Germany would have done the same.

Side: Not at all!
1 point

Someone had to pay for the all of the damage that the huns did to France and Belgium. The war as their fault after all.

Side: Absolutely!
3 points

What German did to Russia was intolerable so I think The Treaty of Versailles was justifiable. They simply deserved it.

Side: Absolutely!
3 points

I can agree that the damage that Germany did to Russia was high so the treaty of Versailles was fair. But , the fact that germany had no say in the treaty is quite unfair For the Germans.

Side: Absolutely!
TJQ_SST(4) Clarified
1 point

So what did the Germany do to Russia? Please support your argument with examples.

Side: Absolutely!
stan701(67) Clarified
1 point

You made a relevant argument with regards to the Treaty of Brest-Litvosk. Can you provide evidence of what Germany did to Russia?

Side: Absolutely!
1 point

Germany had done a lot of unforgivable things to Russia and other countries, but I believe that the Treaty of Versailles is fair as the treaty could have contained harsher terms

Side: Absolutely!

I agree. The treaty of Versailles was nothing compared to how harsh the treaty of Brest-Litovsk was.

Side: Absolutely!
10 points

In Americans' View

The United States, represented by President Woodrow Wilson, wanted a peace treaty that would address the causes of World War I, such as international recklessness, and did not want to severely punish Germany for its actions. However, the final Treaty was not what President Wilson wanted. Only eight of his Fourteen Points were actually incorporated into the Treaty, but some of them were not respected by either side, like Point Five, which urged countries to work to disarmament. He initially viewed the Treaty as a means of “fixing” the flawed world that they saw, even though he knew very little about Europe. As the months passed and the Treaty became harsher and harsher to Germany, he became increasingly disenchanted, even though he got self-determination for the people of Eastern Europe and the Turkish Empire. Even though the Americans did not suffer a lot of casualties and damage from the war, Americans shared the same disappointment that he felt, since President Wilson was a representative of the people of the United States. Thus, the Treaty was greeted with disappointment in the United States. Congress refused to ratify the treaty because of the last 'point' - The League of Nations.

Side: Not at all!
6 points

As an elaboration of what points were not honoured

No 4 whereby all countries were to reduce military power. The treaty only made for Germany to reduce military power leaving it defenceless over other countries whose strength remained the same. This defeats the point of disarmament as it was not equal.

Side: Not at all!
1 point

Despite President Woodrow Wilson claiming that the United States of America wanted world peace, most of the treaty was blaming Germany, thus inciting revenge from Germany in the form of World War II. Thus the Treaty was not fair.

Side: Not at all!
6 points

Britain thinks it was not completely justified as Germany was unable to recover economically from war and thus, still threatened war and communism, which was what we were trying to prevent.

Side: Not at all!
3 points

I agree!Most of Germany's primary sources of income were taken away like Saar and Polish Corridor as they were sources of jobs and trade

Side: Not at all!
1 point

The Polish corridor belongs to Poland. The Germans had no right to it. It was only ever gained by Germany due to imperialism.

Side: Absolutely!
1 point

Without these sources of income, it made it even more difficult for the Germans to pay the repatriations.

Side: Not at all!
3 points

Germany was humiliated by the War Guilt Clause, making them take full blame of the war and it really angered the German people. The Germans felt wronged by the Big 3 as they did not feel that they deserved total blame for the war. However, Germany had not choice but to accept the treaty rather than continue on fighting. This is one of the most significant points in the start of World War 2 and this clause was poorly done, with little foresight about how much the German people would be angered because of it. Hence, this clause was not justified as it not only wronged the Germans(at least partially) but also served as the fuel for Germany starting World War 2.

Side: Not at all!
2 points

Along with that, Germany was stripped of its military prowess too. Although this meant that Britain got to maintain its title of Queen of the Seas, Germany's manpower was reduced to less than a fraction of what it started with. Thus, many of those soldiers were unemployed and unable to contribute the economy (to help pay the reparations).

Side: Not at all!
1 point

I agree. This really affected Germany's economic stability. Since there were many soldiers unemployed, it was tough to rebuild its whole economy.

Side: Not at all!
2 points

I think that the treaty of Versailles was unfair to Germany. It was unfair because Germany had no say in the creation of the treaty. I agreed with George Clemceau of France on the allied side the most however. His belief was to make sure that Germany’s military was restricted to the point where they could not rise and start another war. I think that the most fair provision was the making of a new DMZ in Alsace Loraine which to me would work as a good neutral zone. The most unfair provision was taking away a large chunk of German industry and making Germany clean up the mess that the war created.

Side: Not at all!
0 points

Germany took the full brunt of the blame even though their actions, such as the blank cheque or surrendering early, was an attempt to create a more peaceful solution. It is unjustifiable how much Germany lost and couldn't expect to recover fully. Hence, the treaty was not fair on the German front.

Side: Not at all!
1 point

They were also not given a chance to recover economically to pay off the compensation hence it was extremely unfair

Side: Not at all!