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 The US has a serious mental health crisis. What should we do about it? (16)

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Amarel(4790) pic



The US has a serious mental health crisis. What should we do about it?

If your answer is universal healthcare, know that we lack a mental health infrastructure. 
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2 points

It is crazy to do nothing, or next to nothing about rampant mental illness.

It is a catch-22.

Amarel(4790) Clarified
1 point

Being required to act crazy in order to be recognized as sane is a catch-22. Being so crazy as to do nothing about craziness is a viscous cycle.

marcusmoon(578) Clarified
1 point

Being so crazy as to do nothing about craziness is a viscous cycle.

That was exactly my point.

For anybody who did not catch how it is a catch-22, consider:

1 - You have to be crazy not to address craziness. (I absolutely agree.)

2 - Being crazy enough not to address craziness exacerbates the craziness.

3 - More and worse craziness further exacerbates the insane unwillingness to address craziness. (This is the vicious cycle you observed.)

4 - We were doomed to this because there was already craziness which needed to be addressed AND which caused the unwillingness to address craziness. (This is the catch-22)

marcusmoon(578) Clarified
1 point

Being required to act crazy in order to be recognized as sane is a catch-22. Being so crazy as to do nothing about craziness is a viscous cycle.

Okay. I see your point.

2 points

You need you some Jesus.

2 points

What should we do about mental illness?

That depends on what sort of Mental illness we are talking about. I think we should address them by priority of impact on society.

Depression and schizophrenia, are the ones that impact society the most, but they will be dwarfed by the impending dementia epidemic.

Dementia

-10% of Americans over the age of 65 has Alzheimer’s.

-1 in 3 seniors dies with some form of dementia.

-One-third of Americans over age 85 have dementia.

-Typical life expectancy after an Alzheimer’s diagnosis is 4-to-8 years.

https://www.alzheimers.net/resources/alzheimers-statistics/

In 2018, alzheimer's and other dementias will cost the nation $277 billion, including $186 billion in Medicare and Medicaid payments.

By 2050, these costs could rise as high as $1.1 trillion.

https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-dementia/ facts-figures

There is an easy solution for this. Stop trying to extend the human life span.

Start by getting rid of Medicare and Medicaid. This addresses 3 problems.

- 1 - It would immediately drop 27% off the annual federal budget.

- 2 - It would force health care providers to have more competitive prices because it would radically reduce the number of people who could afford the care at current prices.

- 3 - Fewer people would be getting life-extending care, so fewer people would live long enough to get Alzheimer's and related disease.

Depression

Treatment for depression is largely based on medication, but the most effective long term solutions include sunlight, exercise, and diets high in triglycerides. That is in the control of the people with depression. People need to step up and look out for their own mental health, and lifestyle is a part of that.

Part of the problem with many of the antidepressants is that homicidal ideations are possible side effects, which can make an individual's problem into a very big problem for other people.

Of course, the obvious solution is to let the problem solve itself by ceasing to try to prevent suicide. Nobody likes it, but there it is.

Schizophrenia

Most treatments for other serious mental illness, particularly schizophrenia are highly time/labor intensive, even if just for monitoring medication compliance. Any solution for schizophrenics running amok would require many, many more residential and outpatient facilities.

It would also require making large numbers of people wards of the state. I am not sure how much people will react to large scale involuntary commitment of otherwise very nice people.

Because schizophrenia also has a genetic component, if there is to be any government funded treatment, sterilization needs to be part of the deal. Getting people well enough to function, then letting them make more people who are going to be significant expenses is unworkable in the long run because it just kicks the can down the road.

I know a ton of you just started to scream words like "Eugenics!" or "Hitler!" or "Nazi!" This brings the problem of involuntary commitment into sharp focus. The question, then, is do you want to solve the problem, or just kick it down the road to following generations.

Miscellaneous

When it comes to things like neuroses, phobias and OCD, there should be no government involvement whatever. These are only a big deal to those who have them, and perhaps their families. They are also in the realm of what people can solve for themselves, or learn to cope with on their own.

PTSD

PTSD is a catch-all, and generally those with PTSD have to be dealt with based on causes and how it presents specifically.

The nation owes all veterans with service-related PTSD effective treatment, regardless of the cost.

Other folks with PTSD need to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. There is no cure for bad things happening, so there is no way to prevent this, except by parents and schools making kids tougher, more independent, and more durable. Get rid of participation trophies and stop protecting grade-schoolers from bullies, etc.. Make kids learn to navigate their social relationships independently of adult involvement, and make them solve more of their own problems.

Obviously, we need EVERYBODY to stop taking seriously the snowflakes who insist they were traumatized by Trump's election.

FromWithin(6938) Clarified
1 point

Mental health is not a priority to the Left because addressing core reasons for mass shootings, etc. would distract from the Left's anti Gun fixation.

The Left wants everyone to believe that the Gun is the culprit in these killings.

That's it in a nutshell.

What should we do about it? Never ever vote for these new age gun hating extremist Democrats, that's what.

Hootie(729) Banned
1 point

You need more guns, Amarel. It's the best way to prevent suicide. If you don't give people more guns -- and quickly -- the place is going to turn into Japan.

Gore(141) Disputed
2 points

You need more guns, Amarel. It's the best way to prevent suicide. If you don't give people more guns -- and quickly -- the place is going to turn into Japan.

Red herring

Amarel(4790) Disputed
1 point

You need more guns, Amarel. It's the best way to prevent suicide. If you don't give people more guns -- and quickly -- the place is going to turn into Japan.

I know you're stupid enough to think that an argument against correlation equaling causation amounts to an argument that correlation equals causation. That's just one example of your inability to think logically. But in all seriousness, guns don't prevent suicide Nom. They don't.

It's incredible that I have to say that directly, but that's the level of discourse you bring to the table. Oops, sorry. That's the way you talk and it makes others have to talk in the same kind of way if we want to talk on your level. Hope that speech wasn't overly complex.

1 point

Any significant Government intervention in this regard is sure to lead to highly excessive 'concept creeping'--in fact, it already has. The "mental health" issue will continue to be an issue as there is no solid evidence, as well as a lot of contrary evidence, that the clinicians/workers are themselves far from mentally strong & healthy. Then, these are the people we are going to hand over the power of "Minority Report" to?

The problem of sick, outlandish violence from nihilistic (or self-righteous) sociopaths will have to be dealt with in a different manner, for the most part.

Amarel(4790) Disputed
1 point

Any significant Government intervention in this regard is sure to lead to highly excessive 'concept creeping'--in fact, it already has.

Concept creep is a phenomenon inherent to the interaction of fuzzy concepts with society. A psychologist came up with the idea. Professionals (not all) are aware of the issue and take measures to guard against it, as we all should, socially and legally.

The "mental health" issue will continue to be an issue as there is no solid evidence, as well as a lot of contrary evidence, that the clinicians/workers are themselves far from mentally strong & healthy.

If you are making an extraordinary claim, I'm sure you have extraordinary evidence. Anecdotally, I know of one would-be mental health professional who was required to undergo eval and counselling before licensing. She was never licensed.

Then, these are the people we are going to hand over the power of "Minority Report" to?

One need not advocate handing over to doctors more legal authority than their position merits in order to recognize that there is a problem which must be addressed.

Every day there are people, in my locality alone, who are willing to kill themselves but will willingly take mental healthcare instead...Only to find there is no place for them. In my locality alone there are people who who rave madly in jail cells (relatively lucky ones), or mutter confusedly to themselves in cardboard boxes in the cold.

The problem of sick, outlandish violence from nihilistic (or self-righteous) sociopaths will have to be dealt with in a different manner

Yeah, they probably need to be shot. They aren't who I am talking about. Though they may not be unrelated.

AlofRI(2562) Banned
1 point

What should we do about it?? Start at the TOP! Get rid of the crazies running the country, the other crazies turning everything into a conspiracy, the swamp crazies that have taken over the swamp (which SHOULD be a complimentary part of our eco system … but is polluting it!), and the mental health problem will heal itself!

Amarel(4790) Disputed
1 point

This debate is clearly about more thsn politics, and you obviously know that.

1 point

The US has a serious mental health crisis. What should we do about it?

(You need you some Jesus.)

It used to be fill it with Jesus. Since that seems to be unacceptable, let's go with being like London and Seattle and ban butter knives and straws. That should fix it.

1 point

Amarael, the cause of mental illness is the wiring of the brain it could be because of birth defect, family history, too much stress or drugs like flakka. Those uncurable mental health can only be cured by neurologist. They study how to make medicine for the brain and they also perform surgery. The only thing that normal citizen could do is to respect them.

People don’t have a sense of PURPOSE. Humans are tribal by nature. The church is dying (it’s actually killing itself). We need a United sense of one tribe. We need a POST HUMAN agenda and an updated religion without all the silly dogma. People need physical contact

0 points

So you're atittude is if we lack it don't get it right?

Actually there's currently no nation in Earth not severely lacking in good public mental healthcare provision. Somehow private competition seems really important in mental healthcare providers as opposed to how little it matters in the physical type of healthcare.

I don't mind, at all, the system the Germans have (Bernie and Hillary's single tax payer idea). Subsidise insurance for the poor and let the healthcare providers compete. I like it. Then comes the right wingers crying they have churches paying tax time fund contraception and abortions and the anti Obamacare rants start again.

Amarel(4790) Disputed
1 point

So you're atittude is if we lack it don't get it right?

I don't know where you're getting that. My point is that the debate over healthcare is typically one of funding and best practices. Neither apply if there is no infrastructure. It would be like arguing for government funded transportation when there are no roads.

Somehow private competition seems really important in mental healthcare providers as opposed to how little it matters in the physical type of healthcare.

My view is the opposite. Mental health issues are a public issue. When there are people whose sane but criminal behavior makes them unfit for public interaction, we remove them from the public. Since public interaction is valued, this is also hoped to be a deterrent. But that's another matter.

When people's behavior makes them unfit for public interaction because they are insane, we put them in the same place as if their behavior was criminal. We have a criminal justice infrastructure, and it is taking all the weight. It's over-loaded. The "de-institutionalization" movement of the 70's correlates to an increase in jail and prison populations. Politicians are willing to talk about the war on drugs as a contributor to our prison population (though many drug crimes stack with violent crimes), but no one talks about the mental health overload of our jails.

Crazy people shouldn't be punished for their poor mental health. Neither should they be left to interfere with the daily lives of the relatively mentally healthy public. Neither should they be left to freeze in a cardboard box under a bridge.

Mingiwuwu(1736) Clarified
0 points

You have an extremely simplistic outlook on what crazy is but I'll get back to your later or never depending how I feel.

0 points

Mental health is not a priority to the Left because addressing core reasons for mass shootings, etc. would distract from the Left's anti Gun fixation.

The Left wants everyone to believe that the Gun is the culprit in these killings.

That's it in a nutshell.

What should we do about it? Never ever vote for these new age gun hating extremist Democrats, that's what.

Amarel(4790) Clarified
1 point

The only politician in my area that wants to address mental health is a Democrat. It’s a bad enough problem in my area, that I’m considering voting for that person on the mental health issue alone. Before you freak out, this politician should be sufficiently hampered to not be able to expand abortion. Literally no one else is talking about mental health.

FromWithin(6938) Clarified
1 point

What position are you talking about? Is he running for dog catcher (where he couldn't cause too many problems), the Senate or House, or local seats?

As we see with the vast vast majority of Democrat Senators or Congressmen, no mater what they say during elections, they vote in lock step with the Liberal positions of their Party after being elected.

I would bet you dollars to donuts that the only way Democrats want to address Mental health is to make their healthcare free.

This is the extent of Democrat wisdom when it comes to most issues. Their answer is usually some form of Socialism.

What I see from most doctor's treating mentally ill patients today, is prescribing drugs. They drug the person up, sometimes to such an extent, that he looks and acts like a person void of emotion.

Have you noticed how they give some medical name for everything today. What we once called a spoiled child, and in great need of tough love and spankings, is no longer the case. There is now an acronym for his condition... ADD, ADHD, BP, BPD, etc. etc.

Don't forget that most of the Left is void of simple wisdom when it comes to disciplining our children. They are opposed to spanking, calling it abuse! Then they wonder why our children are so spoiled and acting up in school, in public, etc.

I know from the experience of raising my kids, that the temper tantrums ended after the spankings began, and there were few repeat tantrums after the spanking. They were magically CURED from their ADD, ADHD, etc.

I diagnosed their emotional disorder as... "SPOILED" :)

My child's Attention Deficit Disorder was magically cured after a spank on their rear. I realize this is not always the case, and that there are kids with real problems not cured from simple discipline. But I know for sure that many of these children labeled with some acronym, simply needed some discipline and love. (love being the most important)

I always like to try and get down to the core reasons why things happen in life.

I have noticed an increase in mental illness over these past decades, and ask myself what has changed to create this. The answer from the Left is always the same. They say we have always had the same percentages of people with mental issues, but people did not talk about it back then.

If that is the case, why were there fewer children acting up in school? It's no coincidence that there was more discipline in schools back then, and dare I say, spankings? Why were there no mass school shootings back then? If we have always had mental illness problems, why were there no mass school shootings decades ago?

I believe increased usage of drugs in today's culture is one cause of increased mental illnesses. Mother's who took drugs during pregnancy could be one reason why so many kids are having emotional issues today.

What's the Left's answer? Legalize even hard drugs!

It could also have to do with the record numbers of broken families and the stress put on children. Children need to be loved by a mother and father at home, and they need to feel loved.

One thing I know for sure, is that free socialized healthcare for all the ADD's in the world is not the answer. We will just become a society of people walking around all drugged up.

One last thing... Doctors tell us that drugs for depression and other mental illness have many negative side effects. They can cause suicidal tendencies (which we are seeing in much larger numbers), they can cause anger as we are seeing in these mass shootings, along with a host of other problems.