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It is flawed It's good how it is
Debate Score:12
Arguments:10
Total Votes:13
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 It is flawed (8)
 
 It's good how it is (2)

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BenWalters(1513) pic



The current education model is flawed

The idea of an education is to prepare chlidren for working as adults. However, every single adult I've heard talk about it has said that there is almost no connection between what they learnt at school, and what they do at work. Would a newer system (for any country) in which you can specialise into a specific field, where you learn job applicable knowledge, giving students greater choice over what they learn.

There are almost unlimited options, yet, after going to varous school systems, in varoius parts of the world, and talking to many people about education, I've yet to find one that stands above the rest, for the right reasons.

Basically, just put your thoughts about whatever education system you went through, specify which country it's in if you feel it's relevant.

It is flawed

Side Score: 10
VS.

It's good how it is

Side Score: 2
2 points

The idea of an education is to prepare chlidren for working as adults.

This is one of the problems with a lot of the talk about changing the education system, and which direction that change should take. Not that there should not be some changes (many probably) to education. To say though, that it is only to prepare children to work as adults is basically manufacturing cogs in a machine. Education isn't about working as adults, it's about becoming adults, in your decisions, philosophies, how you choose to live, and having a solid basis for all of this. Whether one is a worker, entrepreneur, entertainer, educator, whatever they choose to be, the idea that education should be strictly focused on this one thing is dumbing down humanity and it takes away from our humanity. We are each more than the sum of the work we do I should hope, and even the work we do can be improved by approaching education more holistically... I know, fucking liberal socialist activism, but every explosion in societies' move forward started with improvements in education since the Roman Empire.

However, every single adult I've heard talk about it has said that there is almost no connection between what they learnt at school, and what they do at work.

Well, the vast majority of jobs take very little education. I imagine if you talk to more scientists, doctors, historians, etc this would not be the case. There is some point to this though, there definitely should be more hands-on, realistic models for education later in one's schooling.

Would a newer system (for any country) in which you can specialise into a specific field, where you learn job applicable knowledge, giving students greater choice over what they learn.

I definitely think more job application should be present in the higher grade levels, and some schools already offer this, and are often more successful than more current models (thinking of a local high school with a great trackrecord for producing successful students, no actual statistics so correct me if someone finds some), but again, at what age do you ask a child to commit to a job they are going to do for the rest of their life? Do you teach this one thing without any courses in other areas? It is a fine line and should be approached carefully I think.

There are almost unlimited options, yet, after going to varous school systems, in varoius parts of the world, and talking to many people about education, I've yet to find one that stands above the rest, for the right reasons. Basically, just put your thoughts about whatever education system you went through, specify which country it's in if you feel it's relevant.

Whether one could be called universally "the best" is debatable but there are statistics. It's a matter of taking one of their models and applying it more broadly, to more schools.

Here's a source for some very successful high schools: http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/ best-high-schools

Here are the "top" colleges, and most lists more or less agree:

http://education-portal.com/articles/List_of_the_20_Best_Universities_and_Colleges_in_the_World.html

Side: It is flawed
1 point

I can't speak for other countries, but the American education system is highly flawed. Teachers aren't treated like they're supposed to be, students don't take study seriously(most of them), and you're forced to learn things you don't need.

I think the best thing to do would teach everything to a certain level. Like, basics of everything, then let the student pick one or two things they enjoy and let them focus on it.

Side: It is flawed

I posted this on a similar debate on whether the Finnish or Korean education model is better. I figured that my criticisms should also be aired here so I've copied and pasted my entire argument here.

"I live in Singapore and our education system here is very much like the system in South Korea. When I read the reasons why my fellow debaters from the USA feel that the Finnish education system is better, I'm sorry to say that they do not fully grasp the gravity of the issue.

In Singapore, much like in South Korea, the pressure faced by the students is so immense that it is not unlike students to contemplate suicide even in the early or mid teens, let alone at the university level (see link for recent case of university suicide in South Korea). Like in South Korea, Singapore, a year or two back, was also faced with suicides at one of the three universities. To give you an idea of the education system in both countries, here's a brief timeline:

1. It is quite common for kids to be interviewed to get into kindergarten. It is also a common sight to see parents queuing up outside of kindergartens for hours to even days on end to get their kids into the right kindergarten.

2. To get into the "top" primary schools in Singapore, parents face a variety of criterion that gives them an (unfair?) advantage over others such as whether or not the parents are alumnus of the school, the proximity of their homes from the school and even the grades in kindergarten. Furthermore, if there is an overwhelming number of applications, schools would pick and choose students by balloting. I don't know about you, but I ask you, should kids be treated as mere statistics? Or should we leave education to chance?

Furthermore, the Primary School Leaving Examinations (PSLE) have now become so difficult that, in one of the years, they asked a question based on the concept of center of gravity. This is primary school examinations we're talking about, mind you.

3. To get into secondary school, you're further streamed into "Normal", "Express" and "Special" streams. The "Normal" stream is for the lower band of students, who would then go through 5 years of secondary school education, taking the Cambridge GCE Normal Level exams at the end of the 4th year and if they pass that, they will take the Cambridge GCE Ordinary Level exams in the following year. In the "Express" and "Special" streams, they take the GCE Ordinary Level ('O'-Level) after 4 years of study. These exams are regulated also by the Singapore exams board, which makes the exams more difficult on purpose. Furthermore, the bell curve is drawn based on results such that it is literally very difficult for you to do well.

4. If they do well for the GCE 'O'-Levels, they move on into the Junior College (JC) level (the route I took). At the JC level, students study for 2 or 3 years (if they fail to promote at the end of the first year) for the GCE Advanced Level ('A'-Level) exams. These exams are exponentially more difficult than the 'O'-Levels such that a significant proportion either do not promote even in the first JC year or can't get into a university. In some JCs, the failure rate after the first year is such that 1 out of every 6 to 8 students fail to promote every year. At the 'A'-Level exams, the competition is much fiercer. To put things into perspective, the chances of getting into med school in Singapore's university is virtually 0 even if you score straight As at the 'A'-Level exams. Furthermore, in Singapore, university application is based solely on academic achievements, unlike in the US or UK where personal statements are taken into account.

If they don't do well at the 'O'-Levels, they go to the polytechnics. The difference is that in Singapore, with a polytechnic diploma, it is virtually impossible to get into any university.

Finally, throughout the entire education system, while the government schools' fees are cheap (~USD10/month), private schools cost well above USD300/month, making it exclusive only to the wealthy. And I'm talking about secondary schools' fees here, not even the JCs. The polytechnics' fees are about USD2500. Furthermore, because teachers are paid such low salaries, most of the better educated, more talented teachers quit the public teaching service and provide private tuition. In Singapore, private tuition costs as much as between USD50 to 100 per hour, again making it exclusive to middle class or wealthy families. In other words, the poor either have to be extraordinarily hardworking or intelligent to even get into university.

The competition here is so stiff that I believe any student wishing to get into the university course of their choice will not hesitate to agree with me that such an education system is emotionally detrimental to children. Now, you might say that the model in S. Korea is different from that in Singapore. But believe me when I say that it is the same or even worse in S. Korea. Thus, I do not hesitate to say that the education model in Finland is better."

Supporting Evidence: Elite South Korean University Rattled by Suicides (www.nytimes.com)
Side: It is flawed
2 points

Yeah, Korea's education system is at the very least slightly inhumane. It's rote learning, which doesn't show intelligence, and doesn't apply to real life work situations. You're essentially wasting your time, simply to prove who can work the hardest for the longest. Even then, your entire life's work is judged on your performance on a single exam, the pressure is just ridiculous.

Side: It is flawed
0 points

For sure. Every day my teacher simply gives me my work without even explaining it then two days later "ok class you guys are not getting this so how you do this is..." y do you think we dont get it!

Side: It is flawed
1 point

I'm currently being educated in the UK, and I think it's pretty well done. Obviously, there were subjects that right now I feel were pointless for me to learn (Such as DT, Chemistry and IT) but I didn't know whether I would enjoy them or not. The point of making people learn all these subjects is so that everyone can be creative in their own areas. If you left it to children to choose at a younger age, then they would all go for the more popular subjects together, such as drama and PE (being the more practical and 'fun' ones). The experiences we have in our learning years set us up for later work, as we are forced to deal with things that we may not enjoy, and learn how to have a good work ethic. I can understand that some people may have their heart set on certain jobs from a young age, but many people change their mind a lot (as I have). On the point of the connections between jobs and work, when we learn some things in different subjects, they may not be used exactly as you learnt them in school, but they are still helpful. By learning multiple topics in multiple subjects, you get a range of things that you can use later on, whether they are directly useful or not. In the major degrees like Medicine, people use what they learn in A levels, to learn more complicated things in University, which they use to learn more complicated things in Doctors training, which they use in the jobs they get. You may not use things that you learn at GCSE and A levels, but it's a process that you have to take part in to get the best education possible. That's my view, anyway.

Side: It's good how it is
BenWalters(1513) Disputed
1 point

I agree that it would be unfair to force people to chose their future jobs at a young age, but by 13 or 14, it's apparent which subjects a child's good at, and enjoys more. Do you not think that having an option for specialisation would be a positive? Not a requirement, and must be approved by both parents, but there for those who want it?

And when you say that people would drop the tougher subjects, in my experience, if you're good at certain subjects, you will continue them. The sort of people that want to drop a subject will not use that subject later on in life, or are definitely less likely to. Of course there would be some misallocation of skills, but with a higher average knowledge in each skill, with the option for firms to continue training where appropriate, could it not work? I think it could.

Side: It is flawed
1 point

Sorry, misread it a bit. I thought you meant it as a requirement. It would be good as an option for some people, as some have their hearts set on a subject, and others have their parents hearts set for them. I personally wouldn't have chosen that kind of option, as I'm in lower sixth and still don't have a clue what I want to do! And not necessarily. So many people may be good at English, but find it very tedious and wouldn't take it. That's just what I've seen, but you could have those who would do what they are good at, as it would make life easier in a way. However, teachers tend to stress the idea of doing what you enjoy, and what people enjoy and what they're good at could always be different. It could work, I'm not saying that it wouldn't. I'm just saying that the system works very well for myself, and many others who I currently study with.

Side: It is flawed
saprophetic(390) Disputed
1 point

I think a basic high school education is necessary for all kids, regardless of if they already have a career in mind which does not need further tutelage from school. A large proportion of these jobs would be manual, correct? With technological advances so frequent, it is very likely that manual job will in future no longer be required, leaving specialists such as plumbers, etc. redundant. Not to mention the ones who simply change their mind later on. A basic level of education is a backup everyone should have.

As a result, I believe the law which stands should stay. It's only two or three years more, the completion of which greatly decreases likelihood of later unemployment and falling into poverty. Making kids staying in school for another few years is well worth the effort.

Side: It's good how it is