Debate Info

15
17
I admit it I am in denial
Debate Score:32
Arguments:18
Total Votes:35
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 I am in denial (12)
 
 I admit it (10)
 
 they were a lot of things (6)

Debate Creator

atypican(1874) pic



The founders of the US were liberals

Defining a liberal as one who wants to change the way things are being run so there is more LIBERty.

 

I admit it

Side Score: 15
VS.

I am in denial

Side Score: 17
2 points

by that definition, Hitler was a liberal, and I agree with both statements (based on your definition, of course).

So, if we wish to describe a Liberal as someone who wants to change things, I guess the entire Republican Party is a bunch of Liberals... and so are all the Libertarians, KKK, National Socialists, Tea Party, Westboro baptist church members, Communist revolutionaries, and pretty much everyone who has ever wanted to change how things are currently being done.

But if we want to go by politics and ideologies, the founders ranged from Libertarian (Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson) to Authoritarian (John Adams). But more were Libertarian... John Adams was just a douche-bag with his alien/sedition act (which we can compare to what Republicans and many Democrats of today support [Patriot act])

740 days ago | Side: they were a lot of things
0 points

Indeed they were.

Alexander Hamilton and John Adams even believed in loose constructionism, as in the expansion of government power based on a very broad interpretation of the United States Constitution.

Such a belief was a primordial form of liberalism and progressivism.

741 days ago | Side: I admit it
0 points

The founders of the U.S were also British.

738 days ago | Side: I admit it
Uspwns101(432) Disputed
1 point

No they were Americans because they did not want to be British anymore.

737 days ago | Side: I am in denial

All the founders didn't have the same political philosophy, it is much like the political discourse of today, dissent, however, they all agreed that there was a need to form a new union in the United States in the eyes of freedom.

740 days ago | Side: I am in denial
atypican(1874) Disputed
2 points

All the founders didn't have the same political philosophy

Neither do all liberals

I think of conservatives as being the type who for the most part want to keep things the way they are. However, at this point for the US to return to anything like Constitutional governance, it would require a liberal change.

Whats wrong with me thinking:

liberal = thinks things ought to be drastically changed

conservative = thinks for the most part our system should be left as it is

738 days ago | Side: I admit it
2 points

I suppose by the very broad definition you are using, but this is not what is meant when we talk about liberals in today's lexicon. The framers were a wily bunch who disagreed on many matters even amongst themselves. To suggest that the framers were all ________, is more often than not a political tool, than a historical reality.

740 days ago | Side: they were a lot of things
atypican(1874) Disputed
2 points

The framers were a wily bunch who disagreed on many matters even amongst themselves.

Liberals are a wily bunch who disagree on many matters even amongst themselves.

738 days ago | Side: I admit it
Bohemian(3467) Disputed
2 points

The framers did not belong to a single political party or even to a single political ideology.

738 days ago | Side: they were a lot of things
2 points

Under that definition of "liberal", I'm sure all conservatives would also describe themselves as liberals :)

740 days ago | Side: I am in denial
atypican(1874) Disputed
2 points

If conservatism was defined as the political ideology of not fixing what isn't broken, I'm sure all liberals would also describe themselves as conservatives. :)

738 days ago | Side: I admit it
2 points

Exactly. These definitions of "liberal" and "conservative" are far too wide, and don't correspond with the political terminology. Calling the founding fathers liberal in this sense of the word has no effect upon the political divisions.

737 days ago | Side: I admit it
2 points

The framers are the best dudes ever, with a few exceptions of course. Furthermore they were "liberals" but not like the liberals we know today.

737 days ago | Side: I am in denial
2 points

Rebellion against a government or institution does not mean a person is a liberal. For example, the Confederacy rebelled the US, and they certainly weren't liberals. Furthermore, the majority of discontent present in the late 1700's colonial America was caused by the British government denying the traditional rights of English citizens, such as representation in Parliament, and having regional government officials. The founders rebelled in an effort to restore those original rights that British citizens had all along. In fact, most of them didn't want to rebel, and were loyal to the crown up until it was blatantly obvious that they couldn't reconcile their issues. This makes them conservatives.

731 days ago | Side: I am in denial

NO,WAY. They made the constitution! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

710 days ago | Side: I am in denial
1 point

I am not in denial, you have just decided to make this topic impossible to argue by injecting your obvious bias. Conservative and liberal are ways of thinking. You are really oversimplifying things here and you're assuming that things are black and white.

710 days ago | Side: I am in denial

I believe that the Founding Fathers were centrists .

491 days ago | Side: I am in denial
Popular Debates in Politics: The role of government is to protect life and liberty only. Are "Anarcho-Communists" really anarchists? Globalism leads to an authoritarian dictatorship.



About CreateDebate
The CreateDebate Blog
Take a Tour
Help/FAQ
Newsletter Archive
Sharing Tools
Invite Your Friends
Bookmarklets
Partner Buttons
RSS & XML Feeds
Reach Out
Advertise
Contact Us
Report Abuse
Twitter
Basic Stuff
User Agreement
Privacy Policy
Sitemap
Creative Commons



©2013 TidyLife, Inc. All Rights Reserved. User content, unless source quoted, licensed under a Creative Commons License.
Debate Forum | Big shout-outs to The Bloggess and Andy Cohen.