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We assert—and on the basis of the most recent socialist literature that you cannot deny—that the real history of capitalism is only now beginning, because capitalism is not just a system of oppression; it also represents a choice of value.
Yes we know you take Mussolini's fascist bullshit seriously. You've made it very clear by quoting him non-stop for two days. Weirdly though, you only include the quotes from before he abandoned socialism and turned to the far right. Why is that?
Because the right today refuses to accept that in Mussolini's own words (1933 and 1939) took Italy to a corporatist/capitalist fascism. (Mussolini invented the word fascism) from fascismo...1915.
[He] said capitalism/corporatism and fascism was the ideal state and a...state at war.
Yes I understand that the poem isn't about you. But your debate title says "didn't WE do this in 1939", so I incorrectly assumed you were talking about yourself. If you were not, then who's "we"? And what does all of this have to do with present day?
Oh I absolutely feel it, it's definitely on the rise in the US. The pussyhats and many other lefties are colluding with islamic antisemites. However this does not make me in any way a part of those who have performed atrocities in 1939, or the "we" as you call them. Perhaps your title should have been "Didn't we SEE this in 1939"? Then I could make sense of what side of the issue you are on.
We are the people who FEEL the rumble of antisemitism rising it's ugly head
The Nation of Islam alone having 50,000 members in California must really be disturbing to you. A party that intentionally floods itself with antisemitic Nazis. The most prominent antisemite on this site being a leftist..... Let that sink in.
You appear to be blissfully unaware that the Nazis were also anti-Marxist, anti-left, anti-black and anti-Muslim. Why do you always omit the information you don't like?
Ah yes, that's right. It's because you're an astonishingly stupid fascist clown who lacks any credibility whatsoever.
Yet when the nazis assumed power did in fact become capitalist fascists. They were as politically right wing as Mussolini's fascist Italy. [They] stole everything they could get to including taking all Jewish wealth.
Naxis commanded the economy and it was a for-profit capitalist society thanx in large part to $30 billion from the US fed.
It’s capitalism when the state owns the means of production huh?
Capitalism is when private owners own the means of production and use them to generate profit. When the state owns the means of production and uses them to generate profit they are doing everything a private owner would do except the private owner is a dictator and not just some guy who owns a business.
You could argue against capitalism better if you knew what it was.
I am the one who has been trying to get you imbeciles to understand the definitions of the words you use for months, and now you pretend like I'm the one who doesn't know my definitions? You are the one who insists that socialism is synonymous with state control, so even if I were to say "capitalism is when poodles fart into bags and then the gas is released down the workers throats at the condom factory" I would still be providing more accurate definitions than you.
The fact of the matter is you are a revisionist cunt who doesn't know a thing, since the very conception of the political spectrum during the french revolution left has meant "equal rights and opportunities" and right has meant "traditional values and aristocracy". Now you idiots are espousing the alternate reality which claims that left means "government control" and right means "freedom".
Google says: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Webster says: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
Wikipedia says: Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets.[5][6] In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment are determined by every owner of wealth, property or production ability in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.
I could go on. The point is that when you put “state” in front of “capitalism” you are talking about a system that is antithetical to capitalism as such. You might as well preach about how voluntary exchange is voluntary slavery....oh wait.
I am the one who has been trying to get you imbeciles to understand
Oh I forgot, your the authority. You told me so...just pathetic. If you understood half of what you think you do, you would be kinda smart.
How can somehow else explain your own motivations for revising the facts? What a remarkably stupid question. No doubt the only reason you asked it is so that you could answer it yourself.
The fact of the matter is that you're a fucking idiot, Amarel. When the facts don't agree with you then you simply make them up and hope nobody notices.
That wasn’t the question, that was the first word of it. After about 2 posts, your bullshit becomes to obvious, like now. That’s typically when I point it out and you go away.
It’s capitalism when the state owns the means of production huh?
Yes, you idiot. If the state owns the means of production then that is capitalism. See:-
State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are organized and managed as state-owned business enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, wage labor and centralized management), or where there is otherwise a dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized along business-management practices) or of publicly listed corporations in which the state has controlling shares.[1] Marxist literature defines state capitalism as a social system combining capitalism with ownership or control by a state—by this definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single huge corporation, extracting the surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.[2]
Google says: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
Webster says: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.
Wikipedia says: Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets.[5][6] In a capitalist market economy, decision-making and investment are determined by every owner of wealth, property or production ability in financial and capital markets, whereas prices and the distribution of goods and services are mainly determined by competition in goods and services markets.
I could go on. The point is that when you put “state” in front of “capitalism” you are talking about a system that is antithetical to capitalism as such. You might as well preach about how voluntary exchange is voluntary slavery....oh wait.
Google says: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
So rather than reading the meticulously well-explicated encyclopaedia entry on state capitalism that I posted for you, you've instead spent the past two hours looking for something which gives you a completely different version of the facts?
You were wrong. The fact that you can't admit being wrong even when categorical evidence is shoved into your stupid narcissistic face just illustrates why not very many people enjoy conversing with you.
State capitalism is a political system whose Wikipedia entry I have linked for you. It exists.
I know it exists simple one. But it isn’t capitalism. If it was, we wouldn’t need the “state” part. Similarly, if you put “trans” in front of “woman” you don’t have a woman. You have a trans woman. Which is altogether different. Oh, but they do exist.
I just posted in full detail what Wikipedia says and it says that you are wrong you idiotic twat. You ignored what Wikipedia says and went looking for contradictory information like the deceitful little imbecile this entire website knows you are. Wikipedia says you're wrong again in the general entry for capitalism:-
The degree of competition in markets, the role of intervention and regulation, and the scope of state ownership vary across different models of capitalism.
Absolutely. But it's very boring listening to people who would sooner cut off their own nose than admit being wrong. They just go round and round in circles.
The longer I live, the younger I get. Didn't we DO this in 1939?
We do remember a German and Italian Socialist joining up killing Jews for being Capitalists.
Hitler-
The Jews have shown real genius in profiting by politics. This capitalistic people, which was brought into existence by the unscrupulous exploitation of men, has understood how to get the leadership of the Fourth Estate into its own hands.
Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism… How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist!
I never felt that there was any conflict between my military duties and my Socialism. Why should not a good soldier be also a fighter in the class war?
Socialism is not Arcadian and peaceful. We do not believe in the sacredness of human life.
We do remember a German and Italian Socialist joining up killing Jews for being Capitalists.
Hello again, bront:
From now on when I see your Nazis and the Commies were bros routine, I'm gonna give it the RIDICULE it deserves..
I dunno anybody who goes to WAR with a country and kills MILLIONS of them, and suffers MILLIONS of your own deaths, and then calls the people who did it, bro's..
It DEFIES credulity.. It is the single most STUPID thing I've EVER heard on this website or any others..
From now on when I see your Nazis and the Commies were bros routine, I'm gonna give it the RIDICULE it deserves..
The Nazis weren't bros with Communism. They were anti-Capitalist Socialists who saw Communism as a step too far left.
I dunno anybody who goes to WAR with a country and kills MILLIONS of them, and suffers MILLIONS of your own deaths, and then calls the people who did it, bro's..
Iran and Iraq went to war with each other. Ideological Brotherhood didn't stop the war. They didn't go to war for ideological reasons. They wanted to take each others' territory.
it DEFIES credulity.. It is the single most STUPID thing I've EVER heard on this website or any others..
If I provide you links of Hitler and Mussolini's quotes, they sound like the Democratic Party.
Why do you keep incessantly repeating Hitler's own lies you mad bastard?
If Hitler was "anti-capitalist" then perhaps you can explain why capitalism flourished under the Nazis and Germany enjoyed its strongest economy since pre-WW1. Look at the statistics for yourself, retard:-
And if Hitler was a socialist, then perhaps you can explain why:-
In Hitler's mind, communism was a major enemy of Germany, an enemy he often mentions in Mein Kampf. During the trial for his involvement in the Beer Hall Putsch, Hitler claimed that his singular goal was to assist the German government in "fighting Marxism".[102] Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their use in Mein Kampf
I've literally just posted for you an excerpt from an interview in which Hitler tried to arbitrarily rewrite the definition of socialism. Are you telling us it is coincidence that you are doing the precise same thing?
People can be mortal enemies with similar ideas. See ancient tribalism, ancient monarchies, Vikings, street gangs, totalitarians (oh wait, that’s what the Nazis and Commies were).
LIAR i thought you fought in the jungle in Vietnam ???????? Are you LYING about your MILITARY service you FUCKIN INTERNET IDIOT ???????????????????????????
From now on when I see your Nazis and the Commies were bros routine, I'm gonna give it the RIDICULE it deserves.
Well said.
I dunno anybody who goes to WAR with a country and kills MILLIONS of them, and suffers MILLIONS of your own deaths, and then calls the people who did it, bro's..
You are just such a laughably stupid little liar. Exactly like Hitler.
Hitler-
Since we are socialists
Socialists don't believe the things Hitler said. Nobody believes the things Hitler said except actual Nazis.
"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
Or the real quote that you've already been exposed on.
We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed civic nationalism.... We intend to be an active minority, attract the proletariat away from the official Socialist party. But if the middle class thinks that we are going to be their lightning rods, they are mistaken.
Stanislao G. Pugliese, Fascism, Anti-fascism, and the Resistance in Italy: 1919 to the Present, Oxford, England, UK, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc., (2004) p. 43. Mussolini’s speech in Milan, March 23, 1919.
The real quote? Are you denying that he literally declared war against socialism?
You just got nailed intentionally leaving out parts of quotes
You're simply hilariously stupid. By that same logic you are guilty of the exact same thing, since you have only posted a five line excerpt from a national speech Mussolini gave in Milan.
The real quote? Are you denying that he literally declared war against socialism?
No. He was a leftist warring with other leftists over what they felt socialism should be. Reforming socialism means you are a left wing socialism reformer.
Leftists arguing about what socialism should be has nothing to do with Conservatism.
And? If I were wrong, you wouldn't have felt the need to leave off that part of the quote again.
Great. Now we are getting somewhere. So, since you began by claiming he was a socialist, we are left with a situation where you are trying to convince us that Mussolini declared war on himself. Tell us more about that.
we are left with a situation where you are trying to convince us that Mussolini declared war on himself
About as dumb a statement as you've ever made. If a Socialist declares war on Bolshevism, arguing Marxism with other leftists, he's still a left winger.
And? If I were wrong, you wouldn't have felt the need to leave off that part of the quote again.
Ah, but evidently unlike yourself, I never read anything without considering the source. That's why I can confidently disregard your claims that I am dumb, because they came from someone who has spent the entire afternoon quote-mining Adolf Hitler.
If a Socialist declares war on Bolshevism
Um. Are you aware that the Bolsheviks came to power by starting a socialist revolution in Russia? It doesn't sound like you are.
arguing Marxism with other leftists, he's still a left winger
So your argument is that Hitler was a socialist because if the Bolsheviks declared war on their own political philosophy they'd still be left wingers?
So...you have the link burritolunch. Want to go quote for quote from wikiquote and examine how many are leftist vs right wing? I'll wait Quantumhead. I mean TheSnake. I mean Nomenclature. I mean Ramshutu. I mean NumberOne...
You have to really be humiliated by someone intellectualy to scrap your prominent accounts all together, eh Nom?
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
And then he promoted Socialism while demonizing Communists and Capitalists. Socialism is left wing. Anti-capitalist is left wing. Socialists hating Communism is a left wing ideological battle between leftists.
Being fully free market and opposing someone who advocates controlled Capitalism still makes you right wing.
In 2019 people call everyone they disagree with a Nazi
Hello again, A:
I'm NOT people.. I don't give a fuck about other people.. If you wanna argue with me, DON'T paint me as "people".
If you paid attention to ME I don't call people I disagree with Nazis.. I don't for the simple reason that if I called every yahoo I disagree with a Nazi, it DIMINISHES what the Nazis did.. I've said that countless times.
The WORLD, including the US, is adopting populism. Populism is fascism lite.. Killing of the Jews NEVER went out of style, and it's back BIGTIME.. You can look the other way... We're USED to that.. That's what my debate MEANS, after all..
excon
PS> You KNOW, do you not, that the right wing white national terrorist from the Coast Guard, was gonna kill LOTS of JEWS??? He especially wanted to kill Senator Jewmanthall.
It’s true, you don’t call everyone Nazis. But what exactly do you mean to imply in this topic?
Yes, hate crimes are up. They’ve jumped from a very small number to another very small number that is 17% larger. It’s still a very rare event. That’s what is actually funny about Smollett. The news blew up a very rare occurrence to pretend that it is an epidemic only to find out that it didn’t even happen.
Consider the numbers. Hate crimes were reported at a rate of .002% (8,437 out of 325.7mil). Do you know how many offenders were white? Half. Only half, even though they make up 75% of the population (including white hispanic). 20% were black (12% of the population). The rest were unknown or other. So when are we going to address the epidemic of racial hate crimes in the black community? Never, because this is not an epidemic. It’s very rare.
And no, Smollett’s case will not cast doubt on non-suspicious reports. The vast vast majority of people take these matters very seriously, as evidenced by the Smollett fiasco. If a report is suspicious, it’s already the polices job to address suspicions, as they did with Smollett
When they came for false reporters, I said nothing, because I am not a criminal.
When they came for innocent groups of people, I woke up, because that was an absurd dream.
Killing of the Jews NEVER went out of style, and it's back BIGTIME.. You can look the other way... We're USED to that.. That's what my debate MEANS, after all..
Several Democrats in Congress are antisemites. Name any right wing antisemitic Congressman.